Paint Clear Coat Questions

[snaquin]

I have heard of some guys using Future floor polish because it is an acrylic over color coats. Krylon fluorescent paints like I used on my Lasor-134 have a powdery finish similar to a flat color paint. I used rub on decals for my lettering.

Any suggestions on what to use for a clear coat/protectant over Krylon fluorescent paint? I used a clear coat on my originals many years ago that stayed clear and showed no signs of yellowing but I don't remember what brand/type I used. Fluorescent paints look nice but soil so easily.

Suggestions? What works for you?

I know a clear coat over this color will dull the finish some but I'd still rather protect it ;)

[SEL]

I have heard of some guys using Future floor polish because it is an acrylic over color coats. Krylon fluorescent paints like I used on my Lasor-134 have a powdery finish similar to a flat color paint. I used rub on decals for my lettering.

Any suggestions on what to use for a clear coat/protectant over Krylon fluorescent paint? I used a clear coat on my originals many years ago that stayed clear and showed no signs of yellowing but I don't remember what brand/type I used. Fluorescent paints look nice but soil so easily.

Suggestions? What works for you?

I know a clear coat over this color will dull the finish some but I'd still rather protect it ;)


I'd like to know, too. I used flourescent oreang on my NCR SR2650, and left it alone because I didn't want to 'de-flourescentize' (huh?) the effect.

Sean

[stefanj]

I've never found a solution to this.

It may be that the florescent effect depends on the surface being exposed.

Although, come to think of it, you can buy glossy florescent stickers. The effect isn't as "blazin'", but you might give up some of that "flare" in exchange for durability.

I haven't used florescents in a while. If I "needed" to, to make a high flyer visible, I would not put any decals or striping on the florescent area, so that it could be resprayed.

[bikegod]

I found a nice hobby clear coat at Michael's on sale and tried it out on my Daughter's Javelin.

We painted it Flourescent Pink (with a black ring, two black fins and some silver stars to boot).

We used several thin coats of it to get a nice gloss and the pink is still pretty hot. I thought the stuff was on clearance (only a dollar at the time so I bought six cans) then it came back up in price. It's supposed to be archival quality (non-yellowing).

Hope this helps.

[John Brohm]

(some stuff snipped) Krylon fluorescent paints like I used on my Lasor-134 have a powdery finish similar to a flat color paint ...

Any suggestions on what to use for a clear coat/protectant over Krylon fluorescent paint? I used a clear coat on my originals many years ago that stayed clear and showed no signs of yellowing but I don't remember what brand/type I used. Fluorescent paints look nice but soil so easily.

Suggestions? What works for you?



I finished a 4" LOC nose with Krylon Fluorescent Orange; I clear coated this with Krylon Gloss coat and the nose still seems to be fluorescent to me.

[snaquin]

I didn't find anything at any of the craft stores over the weekend but I did find some Krylon crystal clear and satin spray at a Wal-Mart about 30 miles from where I live. The satin spray has a ball in the can but the crystal clear does not. I tried both. I sprayed the satin on my Lasor 134 and the crystal clear on my recently finished ARG booster and both went on well. No blushing or runs but a heavy lacquer smell, more so than the regular Krylon colors. The fluorescent colors are still very vivid.

It seems to try to the touch pretty quick after a few thin coats.

Thanks to all who offered suggestions. I hope this will protect the fluorescent finishes from black powder residue and dirt from the flying field.

[Bob Thomas]

I am posting right on topic as I need help as well. I just finished my IRIS based on ST10 tubing and painstakingly created decals for the B&W pattern and logos. Came out beautiful until I sprayed crystal clear Krylon. Well, now my beautiful rocket has a haze as if dusted by a forensic unit for fingerprints. Never saw this before. What the he!! do I do now? I am almost heartbroken. There should be no interaction as the decals were sealed with the same krylon and the fins had only the krylon red paint, no other sealers. Any help would be appreciated, in the meantime I will finish my Sentinal without a clearcoat. I do have acrylic thinner, should I attempt to wash or remove the haze? strip it completely? cut new fins, tube and salvage the NC? sob! BTW Camera date is off, taken today.

Bob

[John Brohm]

I am posting right on topic as I need help as well. I just finished my IRIS based on ST10 tubing and painstakingly created decals for the B&W pattern and logos. Came out beautiful until I sprayed crystal clear Krylon. Well, now my beautiful rocket has a haze as if dusted by a forensic unit for fingerprints. Never saw this before. What the he!! do I do now? I am almost heartbroken. There should be no interaction as the decals were sealed with the same krylon and the fins had only the krylon red paint, no other sealers. Any help would be appreciated, in the meantime I will finish my Sentinal without a clearcoat. I do have acrylic thinner, should I attempt to wash or remove the haze? strip it completely? cut new fins, tube and salvage the NC? sob! BTW Camera date is off, taken today.

Bob

Hi Bob;

Gosh - what a great looking IRIS model! Makes the blush problem all that more anguishing (as if you need someone to tell you that).

I've had Krylon Crystal Clear blush on my models before, and as I recall, it had to do with humidity.

Krylon spray paints are quite sensitive to humidity. Some colors are less sensitive than others (the Gloss White being more tolerant, the Gloss Black I swear will blush as soon as someone turns a faucet on in the next room!) but all will blush under the right (wrong?) conditions. This includes the Crystal Clear, although it must be quite humid (comparatively speaking) for this to occur.

I like using Krylon as these sprays are easy to use and they possess some pretty terrific coverage qualities. But because they are so humidity sensitive, I've installed an hygrometer in my garage (where I paint) to keep track of the Relative Humidity. Above 50%RH and I'll forget the Krylon. I'll either switch to a more tolerant paint (like Rustoleum or Testors) or not bother painting on such a day. But when switching to another paint, one must keep track of compatibility issues.

As for Gloss Coats, I've got to the point where I use Krylon Crystal Clear for larger rockets, but use Testors Gloss Cote for the smaller ones. The Testors Gloss Cote is again more tolerant, and has fewer compatibility issues. It also is not as hot as Krylon Crystal Clear, so there's less chance for a decal problem as well. The only downside (apart from its expense) is that it will yellow with age (something I've not seen the Krylon Crystal Clear do yet), which can be a bit of a concern with white models.

Relating all of this, however, does nothing to solve your problem. You have two options that I can see:

1. take an extremely light grit (#800 or higher) and lightly wet sand the Crystal Clear. Re-coat with Testors Gloss Cote.

2. If that doesn't work, then strip the model and start over. Since Option 2 is the default, you've little to lose by trying Option 1.

Best of luck; hope some of this helps. Please re-post when you've resurrected the IRIS. It really does look like you have a great model going there.

[sandman]

What the he!! do I do now? I am almost heartbroken.

Bob

DON't dispair...we can fix !

First off this is ultimately the hardest part!

WAIT!...do nothing! for at least a week[U].

Place the model in the warmest dryest room in your house. Someplace where you can leave it alone or a few day. Preferrbly someplace you can't see it easil;y so you aren't tempted!

I have had the "blush" (that's what it is) actually go away after several days.

If not, then do all of the other stuff..But do nothing for now!

Report back afer a few day...don't do anything to the model yet...she looks too good to mess up!

[Bob Thomas]

New to me. It rained yesterday here in NY and heavy dew this morning. As I painted in sunlight, I never thought about the humidity. Should have, apparently. Thanks for the info. I'll wait to see if any others have experienced this and wish to comment. Hopefully, they will respond before I "option 1" tomorrow. Is there an issue with Testors clear over Krylon? Is it a lacquer? I dunno, but I would hate to bubble up. Thanks again for this and all of your contributions to the BAR community.

Bob

[Bob Thomas]

Tough to do, but Sandman's suggestion will be followed before Option 1. Estes Aries SST scratch clone in the que, time to redraw decals and cut the patterns!!!

Bob

[sandman]

Here is the cause of "blushing" as I see it.

The paint inside the can is basically room or outside temperature.

As it sprays, the internal gasses (propelant) expands. As it does this, the original liquid now a gas occupies a larger volume (it expands as it sprays out). When it does this it cools rapidly. Imagine the liquid has a set amount of heat in it, once it expands the same amount of heat is there it just has spread out into a largr volme.

This is exactly how an air conditioner works!

An internaly compressed liquid (freon) is forced through a spray nozzle (in an AC unit it's called an expansion valve but it's basically a spray nozzle).

This expansion valve sprays into the Evaporator and makes it cold.

Another example is spray-on deoderant! :D It's alway COLD when you spray your armpits! :eek:

OK...now imagine spraying spray paint under fairly high humidty (anything above 65%)

As the spray hits the model it quickly chills the surface of the model below the dew point (the tempraure where the air can no longer hold moisture). Plus the thinner in the paint is also evaporating making even coler!

Suddenly the water vapor (humidity) hits the cooler surface of the model and a slight amount of water vapor condenses on the freh paint.

That's why cars with AC running on a hot day are constantly dripping water. (Until that stupid drain hole gets plugged up!) :eek:

Water + enamel = blushing.

I hope that explains just what is hapening.

[John Brohm]

Tough to do, but Sandman's suggestion will be followed before Option 1. Estes Aries SST scratch clone in the que, time to redraw decals and cut the patterns!!!

Bob

Bob;

Understandable - best of luck; I hope it works out.

As for the question concerning the compatiblity of Testors Gloss Cote over Krylon Crystal Clear, I 've not had any issue in the past, but I'd run a test to be sure. Spray some smooth object with Crystal Clear and let dry overnight. Follow this up with an overcoat of Testors Gloss Cote in the morning and see what you get.

As I say, I've found Testors Gloss Cote to be fairly benign stuff, but you should test to be sure, especially when you're trying to finish a top quality model.

[snaquin]

Bob,

Bummer ..... nice looking IRIS. Here in southern Louisiana it's tough to find a day with humidity below 65% and I have this problem at times myself. Not just with clear but with colors and as John mentioned the black seems to be extra prone to this. I just leave it in the garage for about a week and usually with the colors when the paint is completely dry and you can no longer smell it the blush dissappears.

The clear I shot this weekend came out ok and we had a string of fairly dry days with low humidity and slightly cooler air.

I tried to touch up a booster I just finished with Krylon clear over Krylon fluorescent where I stuck my stupid finger in it and it blushed REAL bad today but I'm just going to let it sit and see if it will dissipate.

It's tempting to mess with it but as others have suggested let it dry completely before you do and it may look ok when it's completely dry. I'm going to try future floor finish on my next model. It's an acrylic finish so it's safe over decals but I hear it is hard to apply evenly with a foam brush. I may try it on an older model this weekend to see if I can eliminate clear sprays altogether.

Let us know how your model turns out. It would be a shame to have to refinish it at this point when it's really finished and wearing the decals.

[Green Dragon]

Krylon clear is terrible at blushing, it's the worst I've ever used.

Ruined the paint on my Engage that way , now needs repainting ( someday, although I did fly it once ) .
( note, this was alos sprayed over Krylon Cherry Red, so not a compatibility issue at all, in fact, from my own experience, it;s worse over krylon than something 'less compatible' )

Another option I'd try is to topcoat it with a different clear, I did that with my Vector V after the Krylon blushed ( and yes, here in NY it is much to humid :( .. still not perfect, but did help.

I now only use Plasticote clear, and have no problems .

~ AL

[Bob Thomas]

It will sit in the boiler room for a week where I won't have to look at it and be tempted. I think I'll overcoat with the testors, if tests run O.K. I will also look at the plasticote clearcoat product. Would anybody know of or offer reviews of paint products or a finishing section at popular rocketry sites? I've already learned so much from other's experiences, I would like to continue without having to re-invent the proverbial wheel. Thanks again Gordon, Steve, and Al (we've got to hook up for a launch in NY). You guys are gods to me.

I bought Future Floor wax, but heard mixed reviews. Will this stuff apply with an airbrush?

Bob

[dtomko]

Bob,

I give a big thumbs up to Future. In fact, I only use acrylic clear coats these days, the others being Micro-Scale Clear Flat and Satin. I airbrush them all; you don't have to thin any of them down. Future goes on very nicely with an airbrush, but you can also use a cheap foam brush or even a lint-free cloth to wipe it on. It self-levels well. Clean up with Windex. I have never had any problems with Future - except one time when I didn't let the acrylic paint I used dry enough and the Future stripped it off!

I have had a lot of yellowing with Testors Dullcoat, although I have only used the spray cans, not the bottles with an airbrush. I have a few rockets I sprayed Glosscoat on about 7 years ago and they are now yellowed as well. I have had better luck with Testors Metalizer Sealer and Decal Sealer (I think they are the same stuff, actually). These don't seem to yellow as much.

I live across the river in Orange County, NY and the humidity is usually pretty high, so that could be my main problem.

Look over at The Rocketry Forum in the Techniques section. I know there are good threads on this there.

Drew