Estes "MI-TI" kits...

[blackshire]

Hello All,

I came across someone who is selling the Estes "Make It-Take It" kits, the red/white/blue Athena RTF-like rockets that the Boy Scouts use for record-setting mass launches, on eBay (see: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Three-Estes-Make-It-Take-It-Flying-Model-Rocket-Kits-New-Unopened-/160994963195?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D7509858128796902017%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D3%26sd%3D290826864880%26#ht_767wt_884 ). I wish Estes would sell these tri-colored kits, perhaps seasonally, before the 4th of July.

[JumpJet]

I would suggest you simply purchase a set off of Ebay. The price looks pretty good.



John Boren

[blackshire]

I would suggest you simply purchase a set off of Ebay. The price looks pretty good.



John BorenI would, except that they don't ship to Alaska... :-(

[BEC]

HobbyLinc carries them: http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/est/est1799.htm It looks like they ship to AK.

Of course, that's 25 models....how many were you looking to get, Jason?

BTW, they build up to an exact equivalent to the RTF HiJinks - it's a little shorter than the RTF Athena.

[blackshire]

HobbyLinc carries them: http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/est/est1799.htm It looks like they ship to AK.

Of course, that's 25 models....how many were you looking to get, Jason?

BTW, they build up to an exact equivalent to the RTF HiJinks - it's a little shorter than the RTF Athena.I was just thinking of getting a 3-pack for myself...but I do know a local teacher who might be interested in the 25-kit bulk pack. The last I checked (last year), HobbyLinc didn't ship to Alaska, but they may have changed that policy; thank you for sending the link--I'll look at it now!

[scigs30]

Those are nice kits, I bought a set from the seller. I wish Estes would go back to the old red and white AlphaIII kit.

[blackshire]

Those are nice kits, I bought a set from the seller. I wish Estes would go back to the old red and white AlphaIII kit.I share that wish (even if they used a pre-colored white body tube rather than the old "painting required" brown kraft paper body tube). The "mod" colors of many of today's rocket kits--and even of the current "liveries" of perennial favorite kits--often leave me cold. In aesthetics, as in the culinary arts, often "less is more." That's why I like the "Make It-Take It" kit's decor scheme, as well as the Alpha III's original decor scheme; both have/had simple, bold colors and simple yet distinctive decal patterns and lettering. Also:

The "kiddish" decals that one sees on many current kits (the kind with amorphous, multi-colored designs that *look* like a kid spilled paint or ink there) would have embarrassed me even in my pre-teen years, because rockets with such decals look like toys. I certainly wasn't the best rocket builder (or painter/decaler) at that tender age, but in those days the old Estes, Centuri, and MPC kits' paint patterns and decals had a serious, respectable look that encouraged us to do our best to give our rockets that scale-like appearance like "the big 'uns" at White Sands, Wallops Island, and Cape Canaveral.

[Shreadvector]

Decor aside, the Alpha and Alpha III are *not* my choice for any youth group. They are too short. In the dawn of Model Rocketry that super short body tube might have been fine for a parachute with a paper parachute protector, but in the age of "wadding", we need enough body tube length to install a proper amount of wadding ADN install a recovery system. And since these are beginner kits it should not be so difficult to protect the parachute and shock cord with the proper amount of wadding and fold the parachute and install it easily.

With the longer tube of the Make-It Take-It or the Generic E2X you have the proper amount of room for wadding and an easily folded parachute that will open easily when ejected.

I see too many youth group leaders who buy the Alpha III or Alpha simply because they built it when they were a kid and they remember it. They cannot get the proper amount of wadding in and they struggle to fold the parachute in quarters to cram it inside the way-too-short body tube.

If it is necessary to have name recognition, then make a version of the Make-It Take-It in Alpha colors (with a one piece nose cone) and call it the Alpha V and sell it in bulk packs and get rid of the Alpha III.

[blackshire]

When I helped schools with their rocket programs (and the teachers did usually choose Alpha and Alpha III kits because of their familiarity with them), the packing space problem was a non-issue. In the cases of kids who didn't pack their rockets' parachutes in the compact "Carlisle Rock-A-Chute" way illustrated in Stine's handbook, simply wrapping a couple of squares of wadding around the 'chutes worked just as well as crumpled wadding "pistons." I also showed them--to give them a little model rocketry "living history"--how to make the cruciform parachute protectors out of squares of wadding (no cutting was necessary; we just tore four lines across two squares and folded them around the 'chutes like deployment bags).

[Bob Kaplow]

So is this Make-it Take-it pack the equivalent of the Alpha-3?
NIU has some that I'll be using for a class in the spring.

[Shreadvector]

It is identical except:

* Nose cone is two part injection molded. Required tube type plastic cement or a drop of CA.

* Tube is longer and will hold a proper amount of wadding. Alpha III is way too short since it is a relic of the Alpha which was born during the era of paper parchute protectors.

* Has white tube and red fins and blue nose. Stickers apply easily to the white tube and it looks completely perfect with no paint.

So is this Make-it Take-it pack the equivalent of the Alpha-3?
NIU has some that I'll be using for a class in the spring.

[astronot]

So is this Make-it Take-it pack the equivalent of the Alpha-3?
NIU has some that I'll be using for a class in the spring.

Nose cone is different and the body tube is a little longer, but I bought several of the make-it/take-it kits last year and kit bashed one into an Alpha III with the help of decals from excelsior rocketry. I purchased a Balsa Alpha nose cone from Semroc. I cut the body tube down to correct size and used the red fin can as is. It made a beautiful Red and White Alpha III.

If you visit the link in my sig "My Low Power Fleet" you'll see it sitting there just behind the Mini Red MAX.

David

[Bob Kaplow]

Thanks Fred and Dave. Last time they were short on time, and ended up picking up a local Viking bulk pack :(

[BEC]

MiTi builds into a model that is identical in configuration (except for the launch lug) as the ready-to-fly HiJinks. PNC-50YP nose cone in two parts (I'll probably pre-glue those together pre-event when I use it in July) and a body that's a little longer than an Alpha III. If you fold the 'chute in thirds instead of in half to pack it, there's enough room for sufficient wadding.

If I get a chance I can post a comparison picture of an Alpha III and a MiTi from home tonight - both assembled and kits - if desired.

[Jerry Irvine]

When I saw Estes was making Mi-Ti's I thought they got into the adult beverage business. :)

Interesting someone is selling a product designed to be given for free. That's another hope. Free drinks! Dashed!

Oh, well.

Jerry

"Here is an entire model rocket offered for a price below the labor cost to assemble the parachute alone, at minimum wage, which comes pre-assembled. Estes engineering and supply chain are unsurpassed." - Jerry Irvine

[stefanj]

I used Make and Takes for a "build now, fly later" event at the Portland Mini Maker Faire. I bought 100 from AC Supply, but I've seen better prices from Hobbylinc.

Participants got a kit, a chance to build them on-site, and a coupon for a motor at an Oregon Rocketry launch. It was a break even sort of deal.

I altered the instructions a little so that the models could be built in a one-hour session. After the first few sessions I had people glue on the launch lugs at home; I drew an alignment mark on the tubes for them.

I sold 77 of the 100 kits I purchased. I sold the rest at cost to a home schooling group, who were very enthusiastic about the deal.

So most of the home schoolers, and maybe ten of the others, have shown up at launches.

The models were all flyable. I think I had to replace one launch lug (I had extras in my kit). Reading the tea leaves, I started giving everyone who showed up a second motor.

[Shreadvector]

We build hundreds of them every year at the AMA EXPO. Sessions take 45 minutes that gives us 15 minutes to cleanup and reset.

Lugs are glued on in a minute. No line. Stand up tube. Apply yellow wood glue to lug and stand next to tube. They are both perfectly round with flat ends so they align perfectly.

We demonstrate installing wadding and proper parachute folding. We warn them not to pack the parachute until later that night since there is wet glue inside.

[Neal Miller]

Hello All,

I came across someone who is selling the Estes "Make It-Take It" kits, the red/white/blue Athena RTF-like rockets that the Boy Scouts use for record-setting mass launches, on eBay (see: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Three-Estes-Make-It-Take-It-Flying-Model-Rocket-Kits-New-Unopened-/160994963195?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D7509858128796902017%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D3%26sd%3D290826864880%26#ht_767wt_884 ). I wish Estes would sell these tri-colored kits, perhaps seasonally, before the 4th of July.

Hi J, Do you need more of these kits for the school ? we can get 25 of these for less than $ 65.00 delivered.
they have them at Hobby link on line, they may cost a little more to deliver to AK.
but if you contact them and let them know that they are for the school maybe they will help out on the shipping.

[BEC]

Built up Alpha III and MiTi and kits.

The MiTi body tube is 1/2 inch longer than that of the Alpha III.

[blackshire]

So is this Make-it Take-it pack the equivalent of the Alpha-3?
NIU has some that I'll be using for a class in the spring.Yes. It's similar to the RTF Athena (an Alpha III fin unit with a longer nose cone--IIRC, the "MI-TI" has a somewhat shorter body tube than the Athena).

[Gus]

These are great kits. We use them at the Maker Faire in Detroit in our Build-It-Fly-It sessions. We made a couple minor modifications to the kits which lets the builder finish building the kit and then take it right over to the launch pad to launch it.

Modifications are as follows:

Instead of using the Estes shock cord mount, which has to be glued and needs time to dry, we take a 1 foot piece of kevlar string, tie a small loop in each end, place one loop over the motor hook as the maker attaches it to the motor mount, and tie the rubber shock cord to the loop in the other end, which then gets attached to the nosecone. Voila, no need to wait for white glue to dry.

Second modification is that we, as the builder's helpers use a dot of CA to attach the nosecone base and another dot of CA to attach the launch lug to a fin joint. We use CA accelerator to make these tasks take just seconds, and it's just amazing how many people have never seen accelerator and want to know more about it. The only reason we do this step for the builder is to try to keep the CA out of the hands of our younger builders.

Final modification is to replace the included parachute with a short length of plastic flagging streamer. We do this to keep the Make-It-Take-Its on our very small field (the front lawn of the Henry Ford Museum).

With very little assistance, these kits are completely buildable even by very young builders, and they love the included stickers. These kits fly very reliably so they are great to use where we are launching. The fact that we can have the builder walk directly from the build table to the launch pad to launch is just fantastic.

Entire process, from opening the bag to recovering their launched rocket takes about 20 - 30 minutes, which makes this a perfect activity for events like the Maker Faire.

We've also used Quest Quick Kits in the past with good success but the Make-It-Take-Its are far less expensive. We do use Quest A6-4 motors, though. Same price as the Estes motors when bought in bulk but we really like the Q2G2 igniters for reliability.

All in all, we are huge fans of the Make-It-Take-Its.

[Chr$]

I've found the generic e2x good for scouts. I pre glue the lugs on them and sometimes preassemble the motor mount to save time. They color them with markers and stickers. Build one day fly the next. We also use streamers as the plastic fin cans are pretty durable when they hit the parking lot where the troop meets.

The 13mm Estes rocket bulk packs like the up aerospace ones are horrible for beginners, I cannot believe they still sell them. nothing but frustration from the builders, dads, and myself.

[blackshire]

I've found the generic e2x good for scouts. I pre glue the lugs on them and sometimes preassemble the motor mount to save time. They color them with markers and stickers. Build one day fly the next. We also use streamers as the plastic fin cans are pretty durable when they hit the parking lot where the troop meets.

The 13mm Estes rocket bulk packs like the up aerospace ones are horrible for beginners, I cannot believe they still sell them. nothing but frustration from the builders, dads, and myself.What attribute(s), or the lack of same, make the Estes UP Aerospace SpaceLoft kit "horrible for beginners?" With one exception (the looser fit of its fin unit and its forward launch lug/shock cord anchor ring, which is very easily remedied [as I'll describe below]), the UP Aerospace SpaceLoft is no worse a kit for beginners than is the Gnome. Now:

The Gnome has "crack-and-peel" decals that come un-bonded from the body tube after a short length of time (this problem is easily remedied). Also, its lack of a thrust ring (which is easy to make out of rolled paper or from a cut-down spent 13 mm mini motor case, if one doesn't have any thrust rings on hand) facilitates buckling of the body tube at the motor clip slit after a few flights (this doesn't happen to the Ready-To-Fly Puma [an RTF version of the Gnome], which has a thrust ring glued in place just above the motor clip slit)--but the SpaceLoft kit is no worse off in these respects. Also:

Here (see: http://www.rocketreviews.com/estes-up-aerospace-spaceloft-estes-up-aerospace-spaceloft-james-jason-wentworth.html ) is my EMRR review of the Estes UP Aerospace SpaceLoft kit, in which I've described the kit's minor shortcomings (including the decal adhesion problem) and how they can easily be prevented or corrected. In addition:

Because the fin unit and the forward launch lug/shock cord anchor ring fit more loosely over the body tube than the Gnome's corresponding parts (this was the case for all of the SpaceLoft kits in my 12-kit bulk pack), I applied strips of Avery self-adhesive label paper to the body tube where the fin unit and the forward ring would be located. Both strips are 1.7" (43 mm) long. The fin unit strip is 1.25" (32 mm) in width, while the strip under the forward ring is 0.25" (6 mm) wide. The rear (fin unit) strip of label paper is flush with the rear edge of the body tube, and the forward strip is located so that its forward edge is 8.75” (222 mm) from the rear end of the body tube (which is 1-9/16” [39.7 mm] back from the front end of the body tube). I also added a BT-5 thrust ring. As well:

I do not recommend the 1/2A3-2T for the Estes UP Aerospace SpaceLoft, because with its greater mass, particularly in the clay-weighted nose cone (it was still climbing at a good clip when the 1/2A3-2T ejection charge fired), it came back with a big "Estes dent" in the front edge of its body tube. But on the other recommended motors, its flight was a joy to behold, climbing straight and true, quickly correcting itself (as shown by kinks in its smoke trail) in response to winds aloft--its weighted nose cone and long tail moment arm make it very stable. Plus:

The perfect model rocket kit has yet to be made, and besides, learning to overcome problems resourcefully is part of the Scouting experience. Give the Estes UP Aerospace SpaceLoft kit another chance.

I hope this information will be helpful.

[Chr$]

Hi James,

The narrow diameter made it difficult for the younger boys to load the streamer, and if i recall, there were issues with the lug/cord mount. I also don't usually have 13mm motors handy.

Overall for the money, a larger diameter rocket made for a better first experience for everyone. They seemed cheap and unimpressive to the kids.

Overcoming issues is one thing, herding cats for 45 min and trying to get them done is another altogether...

Also, I prefer a kit with no shortcomings, for just a few bucks more. The generic was the ticket. I never mentioned the gnome.

They are pretty durable, however...

[blackshire]

The narrow diameter made it difficult for the younger boys to load the streamer, and if i recall, there were issues with the lug/cord mount. I also don't usually have 13mm motors handy.

Overall for the money, a larger diameter rocket made for a better first experience for everyone. They seemed cheap and unimpressive to the kids.

They are pretty durable, however...My manual dexterity at that age wasn't great, but I quickly learned to pack streamers in BT-5 size rockets--if it didn't fit the first time, I re-folded and rolled it--I learned both skill and patience, which were amply rewarded with spectacular flights. My fix for the fin unit's and the forward lug ring's looser fit (applying strips of self-adhesive label paper [cut to the dimensions listed above and in the kit review] to the body tube) provides a strong bond to the body tube, and takes just a few minutes to do. For group flying, mini motors (which are cheaper) are the way to go, which is why many E2X kits use them.