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Green Dragon
11-09-2006, 09:33 PM
Been watching this one all week, wanting to grab it , if reasonable, for my brother, as it was one of his forst kits ( 3rd or 4th, iirc).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=016&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=260048963466&rd=1&rd=1

umm.. is it me, or is 112 bucks just a little bit high for an opened Astron Constellation kit with a sligthly out of round body tube ?

crazy world ..... ( why don;t they bid like that on my listings, lol )

~ AL

sandman
11-09-2006, 10:05 PM
Been watching this one all week, wanting to grab it , if reasonable, for my brother, as it was one of his forst kits ( 3rd or 4th, iirc).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=016&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=260048963466&rd=1&rd=1

umm.. is it me, or is 112 bucks just a little bit high for an opened Astron Constellation kit with a sligthly out of round body tube ?

crazy world ..... ( why don;t they bid like that on my listings, lol )

~ AL
Yes, that price is way out of line.

I got one for conciderably less, it was sealed and the tubes are round!

s1lence
11-10-2006, 12:26 PM
I was watching that one as well. That seemed REALLY high to me. I was thinking about picking it up until the price started to go crazy.

ghrocketman
11-10-2006, 12:33 PM
That's not only crazy, but that's just plain STUPID on the bidder's part.
This auction REEKS of someone in "cahoots" with the seller falsely bidding up the sales price.
The only way that this opened Constellation kit would be even close to that value is if it was verifyably hand packed by Vern himself with all parts signed by Vern and Gleda Estes !!!
As the kit is opened, nobody can even verify the parts (including the MANGLED/RUINATED/MUTILATED main body tube) are original.
One could buy the parts from Semroc to clone this thing for about $10 and throw them in any old opened kit bag that has an intact header panel.

Quasar
12-05-2006, 10:31 AM
Goblin - $123
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150064399862&rd=1&rd=1

Avenger - $152
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150064397933&rd=1&rd=1

Shrike - $114
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150064396342&rd=1&rd=1

All "won" by the same idiot.

Looking at his feedback, he's spent several thousand dollars on eBay auctions over the last few months. Maybe he's buying this stuff for other people and not himself. Either way, it's ridiculous.

Leo
12-05-2006, 10:38 AM
Let me tell you from personal experience that people out there will spend that kind of money and more for rocket kits.

It's unbelievable and real.

PaulK
12-05-2006, 10:56 AM
So I've been watching the estes vintage kits, and over the last few months, there seems to be a significant increase in winning bids. Many seem to be double what I was seeing a year ago. Whats up with this?

s1lence
12-05-2006, 12:14 PM
Yeah, I saw that zbob guy came in and bought all sorts of kits. I looked at his history and he has dropped a ton on them.

ghrocketman
12-05-2006, 12:19 PM
What's up with this ?

The phrase "Fool and their Money are Soon Parted" comes to mind.
I find this to be not only unbelievable, but also INSANE.

To me, I couldn't give a rat's kazoo whether something is an original or not.
For example, to me, I don't value an original Estes Mars Lander NIB much higher than a Semroc Clone kit.....why ?.....because it builds into the same thing with basically the same parts.

The only time I see a reason for any rocket kits to command a huge price is if they cannot be easily reproduced (usually due to complex plastic parts) by either kit makers or self-cloning an original.
There are VERY FEW kits that fit into this category. One of few examples that comes to mind is the Enerjet Athena due to the body wraps.

Another area that I'm interested in happens to be vintage musclecars....the prices for originals is PURE LUNACY. For the price of one original rare musclecar, one can often build 4 to 5 clones for the same price that include the same exact size engine with more power, that looks exactly the same as the original, it just happens to have an incorrect VIN for the model represented.

In my book, if something looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and flies like a duck, IT IS A DUCK, period.
I place little if any value on anything because it is what so-called "purists" call "original". The only reason these things foolishly escalate in value is because of those who choose to buy into this nonsense.

s1lence
12-05-2006, 01:22 PM
I think he won the auctions on a Rigel 3 and on an Odyssey which I can see a high price due to the yet to be reproduced nose cone. I agree though, if I can get the same looking thing for less thats what I'll get.

Ltvscout
12-05-2006, 02:10 PM
So I've been watching the estes vintage kits, and over the last few months, there seems to be a significant increase in winning bids. Many seem to be double what I was seeing a year ago. Whats up with this?
Looks like the time is ripe for me to start thinning out my herd!

rokitflite
12-05-2006, 04:01 PM
I love how people call other people "fools" just because the "fool" has more money than they do. You know what? There are a lot of old rocket kits I still want, and if I had the means I would simply buy them. I have a friend who is a multi multi millionaire. When he sees something he wants he buys it. Is he a fool? No, he has worked hard and made tons of money and he is enjoying it as he sees fit. If anything he is smarter than most people for being able to get to the position he is in. He worries about buying a car like I worry about buying a candy bar. I am guessing this guy Zbob is in my age group as he is buying all of the kits from my early years. I say more power to him. I have every right to be envious, but I sure as hell would not call him a fool... Maybe "lucky" that he can spend his money so freely.

tbzep
12-05-2006, 04:57 PM
I love how people call other people "fools" just because the "fool" has more money than they do. You know what? There are a lot of old rocket kits I still want, and if I had the means I would simply buy them. I have a friend who is a multi multi millionaire. When he sees something he wants he buys it. Is he a fool? No, he has worked hard and made tons of money and he is enjoying it as he sees fit. If anything he is smarter than most people for being able to get to the position he is in. He worries about buying a car like I worry about buying a candy bar. I am guessing this guy Zbob is in my age group as he is buying all of the kits from my early years. I say more power to him. I have every right to be envious, but I sure as hell would not call him a fool... Maybe "lucky" that he can spend his money so freely.

Nice post. I wholeheartedly agree! http://www.fireflyfans.net/smiley%5Ccheers.gif

However, if Zbob is broke and running up credit card debt to get his rocket fix like a couple of people I knew back in my HPR years...then he's a moron! :D

barone
12-05-2006, 05:05 PM
Looks like the time is ripe for me to start thinning out my herd!

Here, here. And don't forget to email him and let him know.... ;)

Initiator001
12-05-2006, 06:59 PM
Scott,

I agree with you.

Thanks to Semroc, Thrustline, PDR and others, 'oldtimers' like myself can finally get kits of rockets we could not afford thirty years ago.

Some models have yet to be 'cloned' so it's find an original or scratch-build it yourself and I'm usually too lazy to do that. ;)

If I see a kit I want and can afford to buy/bid on it, I will.

While the clone kits are very nice and there is satisfaction in building something from scratch, for me, nothing beats getting an original model that was packaged in Penrose or Phoenix. :)

Bob

moonzero2
12-06-2006, 05:08 AM
zbob is obviously a collector,... and what he is buying are meusum items. I doubt he is buying them to build. If he has the money, more power to him.

I'm really envious of the seller. I wish I had purchased more kits back then to make some money today selling on eBay to buy more clones kits. Thank goodness for SEMROC, Thrustline, PDRocketry,... as I'm buying their clones like crazy. I'm a builder and not a collector, as most of us are. It's a good thing we are not all the same.

Tweener
12-06-2006, 03:24 PM
Yep, I spent a good chunk o' change on an Estes #2001 Saturn V earlier this year. Every time I look at the still unopened parts bags, I have trouble getting myself to get started on it - even though I purchased it with the intent to build.

Regarding cloning, I have learned a very important thing about rockets with unusual parts. From now on if one crashes I will save all the non-standard parts for later use in cloning. I would love to still have the old ram-jet cones and nozzles from my Centuri SST Shuttle. So if the Saturn ever does get built, I'll save all I can for cloning if it has a "bad day".

tbzep
12-06-2006, 05:58 PM
Regarding cloning, I have learned a very important thing about rockets with unusual parts. From now on if one crashes I will save all the non-standard parts for later use in cloning. I would love to still have the old ram-jet cones and nozzles from my Centuri SST Shuttle. So if the Saturn ever does get built, I'll save all I can for cloning if it has a "bad day".

Don't stop at cloning with those parts. You can also do some kit-bashing with that bashed kit. :p

Gus
12-07-2006, 01:09 PM
I've noticed an interesting phenomenon regarding Ebay rocketry collectors.

At any given time there seem to be one or two folks spending way big for rocketry items. They buy lots of stuff in a short period of time and then fade away to be replaced by another big spender of the moment. These folks almost never sell anything, just buy big for awhile and then fade away.

Remember "fishtit" or "tom*chc"?

I wonder if this same phenomenon occurs in other highly-focused not-widely-popular areas of collectibles or if it's peculiar to the BAR nature of our hobby where folks rediscover with their children something they had fun with as a kid.

Occasionally there IS a lull between wealthy "BAR-maniacs" and more reasonable prices prevail for a couple of weeks.

There are also very serious collectors out there who will occasionally bid something way beyond reason to fill a very tiny hole in their collection. These folks both buy and sell frequently.

Very interesting to watch how Ebay has created a new economics in collectibles.

s1lence
12-07-2006, 01:59 PM
Actually I have seen in with videogame collecting. A couple people will come along and buy anything for a certain system and then they disappear. They always pay crazy prices for stuff as well. Its not just rockets that have high price bidders.

More power to them though, if I wanted something and could afford it I would do the same thing.

sandman
12-07-2006, 02:02 PM
I've noticed an interesting phenomenon regarding Ebay rocketry collectors.

At any given time there seem to be one or two folks spending way big for rocketry items. They buy lots of stuff in a short period of time and then fade away to be replaced by another big spender of the moment. These folks almost never sell anything, just buy big for awhile and then fade away.

Remember "fishtit" or "tom*chc"?

I wonder if this same phenomenon occurs in other highly-focused not-widely-popular areas of collectibles or if it's peculiar to the BAR nature of our hobby where folks rediscover with their children something they had fun with as a kid.

Occasionally there IS a lull between wealthy "BAR-maniacs" and more reasonable prices prevail for a couple of weeks.

There are also very serious collectors out there who will occasionally bid something way beyond reason to fill a very tiny hole in their collection. These folks both buy and sell frequently.

Very interesting to watch how Ebay has created a new economics in collectibles.

I had a recent auction where my daughter puchased an item at a "Garage Sale" for $3 and asked me to put it on Ebay for her.

Now this was absolutely absurd! Especially in the last 5 minutes.

Remember I said she bought this at a Garage sale for $3!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&sspagename=STRK%3AMESO%3AIT&viewitem=&item=280051469384&rd=1&rd=1

Note that one of the bidders asked me if I would be willing to send the item to Belgium.

It's not just us dumb Americans. ;)

s1lence
12-07-2006, 02:12 PM
I'm going to have to check my parents garage for one of those.

ghrocketman
12-07-2006, 05:08 PM
no joke, I think I have one of this exact item in the basement of my parent's old house.
They never threw out ANY of our old toys.
Mite haveta start selling them off.....although I find these sort of prices to be downright ignorant.

Initiator001
01-03-2007, 11:40 PM
There is an Enerjet Nike Ram and Egg Crate for sale on ebay.

Opening price for each is $799.

Wow! :eek:

Bob

Gus
01-04-2007, 03:23 AM
Bob,

It probably would have been listed at $899 but it's missing the parachute. :eek:

I'll be surprised if there are any takers at $799, but at least it spurred me to look at the plans on JimZ. Interesting shape to the egg capsule with the long bottom transition. And the instruction to use partially inflated balloons as cushioning material was new to me.

But Bob, as our former Enerjet guy, what was the thought behind an F-egg -lofter? Was there much of a market for a 2500 foot egg lofter?

A Fish Named Wallyum
01-04-2007, 04:30 AM
Bob,

It probably would have been listed at $899 but it's missing the parachute. :eek:

I'll be surprised if there are any takers at $799, but at least it spurred me to look at the plans on JimZ. Interesting shape to the egg capsule with the long bottom transition. And the instruction to use partially inflated balloons as cushioning material was new to me.

But Bob, as our former Enerjet guy, what was the thought behind an F-egg -lofter? Was there much of a market for a 2500 foot egg lofter?

Breakfast deliveries to mountain climbers?

ghrocketman
01-04-2007, 12:26 PM
$799.00 each ????????
Un-freekin-believable.
One year ago I bought a COMPLETE, but opened Enerjet Nike-Smoke on ebay for $86.00.
That is realistic price to pay opened, maybe double that sealed. These kits are NOT sealed and the Egg Crate is NOT EVEN COMPLETE (it is minus the chute, which is probably the only part of the kit that has NOT been reproduced by Estes).
I stand by my original statement that these prices are ASININE for anyone to pay, and no I don't say that because I can's afford them either....I refuse to pay prices as if something is made of pure unobtainium.
I noticed the seller is the same joker that ALWAYS starts his auctions out with ridiculously high opening bids, but never sells anything.
This guy told me some rock-a-chute motors he was trying to sell were actually worth about 4 times what they were actually worth....I laffed when I saw he did not get a single bid.
Move the decimal place one spot to the right on the opening bid and you would have a reasonable opening bid, not this must-have-bumped-your-head current opening price.

Initiator001
01-04-2007, 02:14 PM
Bob,

It probably would have been listed at $899 but it's missing the parachute. :eek:

I'll be surprised if there are any takers at $799, but at least it spurred me to look at the plans on JimZ. Interesting shape to the egg capsule with the long bottom transition. And the instruction to use partially inflated balloons as cushioning material was new to me.

But Bob, as our former Enerjet guy, what was the thought behind an F-egg -lofter? Was there much of a market for a 2500 foot egg lofter?

The Enerjet mold for the egg capsule was used to make the parts for the Estes Eggspress and Scrambler (1990's vintage) kits. You can still find these kits if you look for them. Paint does not stick very well to this plastic.

Enerjet products were designed to appeal to those who wanted to fly the highest, fastest and carry larger payloads (And had a bigger weekly allowance than me :( ). They came out just as public interest in space was fading.

Bob

Gus
01-04-2007, 03:02 PM
The Enerjet mold for the egg capsule was used to make the parts for the Estes Eggspress and Scrambler (1990's vintage) kits. You can still find these kits if you look for them ... in your own basement. :eek: :rolleyes: :p :D
Bob,

Thanks for the great info, as usual.

ghrocketman
01-04-2007, 03:53 PM
I cloned the Egg Crate by using an Eggspress as my starting point.
One can get paint to stick to the capsules if they are prepped correctly.
Wipe capsule with Xylene or Toluene to remove any oils.
Wash with extremely hot water & dishwashing detergent.
Scuff capsule with 600 to 1000 grit sandpaper.
Prime with a lacquer-based auto primer.
Finish with Krylon Fusion paint in the desired color.
This method seemed to work well, with high scuff/scratch resistance.
If you try to prime/paint like regular plastic it WILL NOT WORK !

sandman
01-04-2007, 04:16 PM
So...let me see if I got this right.

The Enerjet EGG Crate used the same egg caplule parts as the Estes Scrambler?

If that's right...then I have one of those! :D

Is this it? It's some type of styrene plastic, soft and fairly flexable.

Ltvscout
01-04-2007, 04:54 PM
I cloned the Egg Crate by using an Eggspress as my starting point.

There are two Egg Crate's. The original Centuri version with a balsa cone, ST-20 payload section and a paper reducer, then the later Enerjet version with the plastic nosecone/ payload section. I have one of the originals that I bought when they first came out. Still sitting there about 3/4 of the way finished since the early 70's.

Ltvscout
01-04-2007, 04:55 PM
So...let me see if I got this right.

The Enerjet EGG Crate used the same egg caplule parts as the Estes Scrambler?
Yup, that's the one for the Enerjet version.

Rocketking
01-04-2007, 05:17 PM
Since 'E' has re-used kit names more than anyone else around, The real question is which Scrambler kit. I suspect the one with the balsa NC and adapter is the one in discussion. I have several here somewhere... If I come across one I'll post a photo.

Glen A.

snaquin
01-04-2007, 05:53 PM
So...let me see if I got this right.

The Enerjet EGG Crate used the same egg caplule parts as the Estes Scrambler?

If that's right...then I have one of those! :D

Is this it? It's some type of styrene plastic, soft and fairly flexable.

Yes, only a different color. The Estes version (like yours) was yellow. The EnerJet version that was included in the EnerJet Egg Crate was just like your yellow one only made of black polyetheleyne. This black version was also sold by Centuri as Egg Capsule #PNC-13E/ST-202 after EnerJet ceased doing business. Check your old Centuri Rocket Times, they sold that black version for a few years.

FYI ..... If you want to save your Estes version and opt not to turn your own, Semroc has these parts:

BC-2025 Balsa Nose Cone

http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=384

BR-1320L Balsa Reducer

http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=500

Add a 2" piece of ST-20 and you're set. Since the balsa cone and reducers are solid, you wouldn't be able to fly an egg in it but it does work well to reproduce something with a longer payload section like the EnerJet 1340/20 Sounding Rocket

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/enerjet/enj1340-20/enj1340-20.htm

I bought the Semroc balsa parts and will use those for flight and save my plastic version (like yours) for display so as not to risk losing it on my 1340/20 when flown on F and G motors.

:)

.

sandman
01-04-2007, 07:09 PM
Yup, that's the one for the Enerjet version.

Great! I have to go into the city tomorrow (Detroit) and I know this hobby shop that has...well, maybe I better check first! :rolleyes:

They had them the last time I checked but that was then...this is now!

Earl
01-04-2007, 07:44 PM
There are two Egg Crate's. The original Centuri version with a balsa cone, ST-20 payload section and a paper reducer, then the later Enerjet version with the plastic nosecone/ payload section. I have one of the originals that I bought when they first came out. Still sitting there about 3/4 of the way finished since the early 70's.

Ooooh! Ooooh!! Scott, would it be too much to ask to get some quick length dimensions on the body tube and payload tube (the ST-16 and ST-20 tubes respectively, I believe) for that original Egg Crate? I was always partial to that kit as a kid (the '71 Centuri catalog that the original Egg Crate was shown in was my first model rocket catalog), but they only offered the kit that one year and I never got one. Trying to re-create one now and have some Semroc parts just about ready to order (tubes that is; I have the nosecone), but need some length dimensions on both tubes. It'd be much appreciated.

I've searched the plans archives and I have not been able to find this kit anywhere (but I may have simply missed it in my searches; if plans, dimensions exist on-line somewhere I'd be glad to look up the data there if you have a pointer).

I guess I can be really overbearing and ask for a fin trace also, but I'll hold off on that request, unless you are feeling really generous today and don't mind the extra effort! :o

In any event, any info you can supply (seriously, don't knock yourself out) would certainly of course be appreciated.

Earl

Ltvscout
01-04-2007, 09:20 PM
Ooooh! Ooooh!! Scott, would it be too much to ask to get some quick length dimensions on the body tube and payload tube (the ST-16 and ST-20 tubes respectively, I believe) for that original Egg Crate? I was always partial to that kit as a kid (the '71 Centuri catalog that the original Egg Crate was shown in was my first model rocket catalog), but they only offered the kit that one year and I never got one. Trying to re-create one now and have some Semroc parts just about ready to order (tubes that is; I have the nosecone), but need some length dimensions on both tubes. It'd be much appreciated.

I've searched the plans archives and I have not been able to find this kit anywhere (but I may have simply missed it in my searches; if plans, dimensions exist on-line somewhere I'd be glad to look up the data there if you have a pointer).

I guess I can be really overbearing and ask for a fin trace also, but I'll hold off on that request, unless you are feeling really generous today and don't mind the extra effort!
I'll have to dig it out of storage. I always meant to get that info for Carl anyhow for a clone to be made. I've got the plans and decals as well, somewhere in this mess.

snaquin
01-04-2007, 10:21 PM
There is an Enerjet Nike Ram and Egg Crate for sale on ebay.

Opening price for each is $799.

Wow! :eek:

Bob

Bob,

I downloaded the images from the auction for references sake ..... since at those prices I'll never own a "real" Egg Crate (or Nike Ram).

I must admit that original black egg capsule looks great.

Would have loved to have seen those rockets fly in person at NARAM-14

:) :) :) :) :)

For anyone on the forum or new to the forum that may not be familiar, some of the EnerJet rockets can be seen in the Sept. 72 EnerJet News when these rockets were freshly released, including the Nike Ram and Egg Crate. Scott has this publication posted here:

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/pubs/Enerjet/9-72/enerjet972.htm

And an article discussing the Egg Crate egg capsule in this issue

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/pubs/Enerjet/1-73/enerjet173.htm

I tried eye-balling that picture to copy the EnerJet "Prime" with a spare egg capsule I have but never could seem to get the angles and lengths correct ..... That was a cool concept.

.

Gus
01-04-2007, 10:34 PM
Scott,

Do you have the original Centuri kit or the Enerjet kit?

Earlier today I emailed the person selling the kit on Ebay and asked if he would be so kind as to scan the decals and a fin and email it to me so I could send it to Scott or JimZ for inclusion with the posted plans. So far I have not had a response.

Although the plans suggest a color scheme, yellow or orange for the body and black for the capsule, has anyone seen a color photo of the Egg Crate?

Carl@Semroc
01-04-2007, 10:50 PM
Scott,

Do you have the original Centuri kit or the Enerjet kit?

Earlier today I emailed the person selling the kit on Ebay and asked if he would be so kind as to scan the decals and a fin and email it to me so I could send it to Scott or JimZ for inclusion with the posted plans. So far I have not had a response.

Although the plans suggest a color scheme, yellow or orange for the body and black for the capsule, has anyone seen a color photo of the Egg Crate?And if Centuri...the first one with balsa nose cone and transition or the latter with the plastic cone?

snaquin
01-04-2007, 11:23 PM
Scott,

Do you have the original Centuri kit or the Enerjet kit?

Earlier today I emailed the person selling the kit on Ebay and asked if he would be so kind as to scan the decals and a fin and email it to me so I could send it to Scott or JimZ for inclusion with the posted plans. So far I have not had a response.

Although the plans suggest a color scheme, yellow or orange for the body and black for the capsule, has anyone seen a color photo of the Egg Crate?

John Dyer with Red River Rocketry has an original EnerJet version. In this thread I started a while back when I was working on my Egg Crate, he posted a fin pattern and tried to get a shot of the decals but the decals were fuzzy. I'd still like to get a good copy of the decal scan myself because I would like to build another with the accurate fin pattern John Dyer posted

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=621&page=5&pp=10

I finished mine like the color photo at JimZ

There is a RockSim file for the EnerJet version that I made also included in that thread if you are interested.

.

Earl
01-04-2007, 11:47 PM
Scott,

Do you have the original Centuri kit or the Enerjet kit?

Earlier today I emailed the person selling the kit on Ebay and asked if he would be so kind as to scan the decals and a fin and email it to me so I could send it to Scott or JimZ for inclusion with the posted plans. So far I have not had a response.

Although the plans suggest a color scheme, yellow or orange for the body and black for the capsule, has anyone seen a color photo of the Egg Crate?

I believe that is Dan Sagstetter of Rocketry Collectors Journal fame who has both those Enerjet kits posted on eBay. It seems Dan has been posting a number of Centuri kits and such the past few months, but his posting of some Enerjet kits is a newer trend. He has been very helpful to me and I was able to purchase my very first starter set -- the Centuri Eagle Power set -- in shrink-wrapped, mint condition. NEVER thought I'd be able to find one like that literally 30 years after my 'original' purchase!

I guess my gut reaction is that those 'starting minimums' might be a bit high (he has some other Centuri kits and starter sets like a mint Black Widow with a starting bid of $199). Again, nice collectables, and he certainly has some nice stuff, but I'd be surprised to see very many 'bites' at some of those starting prices. Then again, who knows!

Earl

Ltvscout
01-05-2007, 09:03 AM
Scott,

Do you have the original Centuri kit or the Enerjet kit?
I have the original Centuri kit.

Ltvscout
01-05-2007, 09:04 AM
And if Centuri...the first one with balsa nose cone and transition or the latter with the plastic cone?
It's the first one with the balsa cone.