Estes Pro Series II E2X Models

[Initiator001]

During the recent National Sport Launch (NSL) outside of Pueblo, Colorado, the Estes product to get the most attention were the new 29mm diamenter black powder E16 and F15 motors.

Estes displayed many other products at the NSL including a line of kits to use the new E16/F15 motors. These were categorized as Pro Series II models but had the secondary category of being E2X rockets.

As I noted in another thread these models will be two inches in diameter, feature molded plastic fins and nose cones, pre-colored parts, through-the-wall fin tabs, plastic centering rings, a clever two-piece shock cord anchor, plastic motor retainer ring and molded 1/4" plastic launch lugs.

During all three days of the NSL the four different PSII E2X models (Trajector, Ascender, Majestic and Prowler) were flow with different motor combinations and with the PSII E2X Booster as two-stage models.

All the models flew great with the new F15 motors. Several were flown with AeroTech single-use motors without any modification. With an empty weight around ten ounces these models really scooted when flown with the Aerotech motors. The flight of the Prowler model with an AeroTech F50 motor was very fast and high.

While watching the Prowler flight drift off the comment was made, "If you can find it you can keep it!" The Prowler was up so high and being carried away by the wind I thought it wouldn't come down until it reached New Mexico. However, another of the PSII E2X kits, the Majestic, had been flown earlier and had 'landed' somewhat nearby.

I decided to go out and search for it. I knew the general direction it had gone and started walking. I had walked close to a mile without any luck finding the rocket. At that point I decided I would not find it and turned around to walk back to the parking area. I walked back along a different course intending to search on the way back. As luck would have it, I found the model.

It wasn't in very good shape but it was mine. :D

I will use this thread to examine the Majestic model and the PSII E2X kits in general. I will post my findings and thoughts.

Stay tuned.

[Fuse Eh!]

Ouch! Looks like the landing was less than "majestic". Did you roll the 'chute up for the picture, or was it like that when you found the rocket?

[Initiator001]

Ouch! Looks like the landing was less than "majestic". Did you roll the 'chute up for the picture, or was it like that when you found the rocket?

That's how I found the parachute. It was lying on the ground next to the rocket.

As for the rocket's flight and landing, let me just say that it was a 'Tunick' flight. ;) :D :chuckle:

[Initiator001]

Now it is time to examine the Majestic rocket in greater detail.

I broke out my 'precision' tools to beging a forensic analysis of the model.

Queue up the 'Quincy M.E.' theme music! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI3pd-dNN-0

[Initiator001]

The parachute found in this model appeared to be the same as offered in the other PS II kits.

Nylon material and red in color.

This parachute had a twenty inch canopy and eight long shroud lines.

Most mass-market parachutes only have six shroud lines.

[Initiator001]

The nose cone of this Majestic rocket suffered quite a bit of 'landing' damage.

This nose cone was painted silver while the actual production models will have a pre-painted nose cone. It appears to be blow-molded.

The plastic wall of the nose cone is fairly thick and heavy-duty. It still retains it's shape after being subjected to a graet deal of force.

The nose cone shoulder is two-inches long with a beefy molded anchor point for the shock cord and parachute.

It appears that three of the four PS II E2X models will use this nose cone. I do not know if this specific nose cone has been used on any othr PS II kits.

[Initiator001]

The shock cord found with this model is flat white 1/2" wide elastic which is the same used in other PS II models.

As for the length of the shock cord it appears to be between 86-90 inches. A quite generous amount. I do not know if the production models will have this much shock cord.

[chadrog]

What motor is to blame for the failed deployment?

[Initiator001]

The PS II E2X models will use a new shock cord anchoring unit designed by John Boren.

It is two plastic pieces which contain the shock cord. It is molded with a curvature to match the inside diameter of the body tube.

I attempted to take it apart but that only resulted in stabbing myself in the palm with a screwdriver and breaking off some pieces. :o

It was demonstrated to me at the Estes booth during NSL 2013. Pretty slick.

The unit was assembled and glued to the inside of the body tube with CA adhesive. All glue joints survived the 'landing'.

[BEC]

Bob,

Thanks for that last post. That saves me making a new thread. Here are several pictures of how that shock cord mount works. John Boren gave me a couple of samples - one glued and one not - specifically for this purpose....

[BEC]

Two more pics of the shock cord mount.

[Initiator001]

Bob,

Thanks for that last post. That saves me making a new thread. Here are several pictures of how that shock cord mount works. John Boren gave me a couple of samples - one glued and one not - specifically for this purpose....

Bernie,

Thanks for posting those pictures of the shock cord anchor.

[Initiator001]

These PS II E2X models use some of the same parts found in the original Pro Series II kits.

The molded launch lug used on the Nike Smoke and motor retainer ring system used on all the previous PS II kits are used with their E2X cousins.

There were two launch lugs on the Majestic but one was lost.

[RWmarlow]

neat little dohickey there ...my Wife saw the photo of the PSIIE2X :chuckle: Prowler and decided she would like "that pink rocket" so It's on the Holiday list early

[Initiator001]

There wasn't much point in keeping the majority of the body tube so I cut that away. I plan to remove all the body tube to get to the motor mount/centering ring assembly.

Before I completely remove all the body tube I wanted to measure a few things.

The outside diameter of the Estes 2" tube measured 1.978" with a wall thickness of .030 inches.

Hmmm...

I took out a length of Quest T-50 body tube and measured it:

OD: 1.974"

Wall thickness: .028"

That's pretty close.

I decided to try inserting a Quest T-50 molded plastic nose cone in the remaining Majestic body tube.

It fit like a glove. ;)

So, if you need a piece of 2" Estes body but can't find/get it, the Quest T-50 tubing is mighty close alternative. :D

[RWmarlow]

There was somebody on one of the forums that was looking for estes 2 inch tubing the other day IIRC

[JumpJet]

In a nother day or so most of the Pro Series II parts will be listed on the Estes Web Site. Some are up there now. The parts should be available for purchase very soon I would guess.



http://www.estesrockets.com/rockets/pro-series/parts



John Boren

[JumpJet]

What motor is to blame for the failed deployment?


This was a failed attempt to light a NON Black Powder motor that was in the upper stage. I even cheated and still didn't get that NON Black powder motor to light. With the new E16 or F15 motors in the upper stage, I've never had one NOT light. I'm sure one day it will happen when one doesn't light but for now I've had a 100% success rate.

To answer a couple of questions I've read. The shock cord in the kit will be a full 96" long. The Majestic Fins come preglued and are Chromed along with the Nose Cone. This is a NEW nose cone. The plastic Launch lugs are similar to the ones used on the Mega Der Red Max but are sized for the 2" OD tube. When assembled correctly and glued in place correctly I've never had a shock cord, or shock cord anchor come loost yet, "Knock on Wood". And yes a couple of these models along with some of the new 29mm BP motors should be in your favorite 40% coupon house in the near future.



John Boren

[BEC]

Sorry, John - I forgot to mention the 8 foot shock cord length in my post. I guess I need to give myself a few lashes with one of the samples you sent home with me :D

That attempt to get that "NON Black Powder motor" to light as a sustainer did lead to an "interesting" flight from where I was standing. :eek:

[Initiator001]

I managed to remove most of the body tube from the Majaestic fin unit.

John Boren told me he used CA adhesive to assemble these models. I have to say this unit is SOLID. There's no way I can disasseble the fin unit without breaking the parts and defeating the purpose of showing pictures of the individual parts.

Even so, things can be learned.

The 29mm motor mount tube is five inches long. There is a thrust ring at the forward end. Since the Estes E16/F15 motors have slightly shorter casings than the Estes (AeroTech) G40 and G80 motors a spacer ring will be available to use in rockets set up for the 29mm AP 'G' motors. This will fill in the gap when flying the same model with the E16/F15 motors. I don't know if the production PS II E2X kits will have their motor mounts set up to handle the G40/G80 motors but this Majestic model is set up for some serious 29mm AP 'G' motor flying.

The plastic centering rings have an outside ring 1/2" wide. The inside ring where the motor mount tube slides into is also around 1/2" wide. The web area which connects the two rings is thinner but still makes for an overall beefy centering ring.

The plastic fin tabs slide into notches in the rings and butt against the motor mount tube. A very strong and sturdy unit.

The plastic fins consist of two parts, a right and left side. If you have built the PS II Nike Smoke model then you would be aware the fins are hollow inside with ribs that strengthen the fins.

That wraps up my review of the parts and construction of these new PS II E2X models. I'll have some thoughts and comments in my next post.

[johnnwwa]

In a nother day or so most of the Pro Series II parts will be listed on the Estes Web Site. Some are up there now. The parts should be available for purchase very soon I would guess.



http://www.estesrockets.com/rockets/pro-series/parts



John Boren

John
The Pro Series Parts most excellent indeed two Thumbs Up
:D

[BEC]

The 29mm motor mount tube is five inches long. There is a thrust ring at the forward end. Since the Estes E16/F15 motors have slightly shorter casings than the Estes (AeroTech) G40 and G80 motors a spacer ring will be available to use in rockets set up for the 29mm AP 'G' motors. This will fill in the gap when flying the same model with the E16/F15 motors. I don't know if the production PS II E2X kits will have their motor mounts set up to handle the G40/G80 motors but this Majestic model is set up for some serious 29mm AP 'G' motor flying.

Of course since current 29mm composite motors (including those carrying the Estes brand) have a thrust ring molded in at the back of the motor case, the gap between the end of one and the thrust ring in the motor tube for BP motors is of no consequence.

[Brent]

A 29mm Pershing would have been sweet :)

[Shreadvector]

Of course since current 29mm composite motors (including those carrying the Estes brand) have a thrust ring molded in at the back of the motor case, the gap between the end of one and the thrust ring in the motor tube for BP motors is of no consequence.

Of course, the vaguely mentioned "non-black powder motor" that was in the model as an upper stage motor could be one of those that uses a cardboard casing with no integral nozzle end thrust ring. I wonder if we will see those soon as well?

http://www.google.com/patents/US20040094250

[jbuscaglia]

There wasn't much point in keeping the majority of the body tube so I cut that away. I plan to remove all the body tube to get to the motor mount/centering ring assembly.

Before I completely remove all the body tube I wanted to measure a few things.

The outside diameter of the Estes 2" tube measured 1.978" with a wall thickness of .030 inches.

Hmmm...

I took out a length of Quest T-50 body tube and measured it:

OD: 1.974"

Wall thickness: .028"

That's pretty close.

I decided to try inserting a Quest T-50 molded plastic nose cone in the remaining Majestic body tube.

It fit like a glove. ;)

So, if you need a piece of 2" Estes body but can't find/get it, the Quest T-50 tubing is mighty close alternative. :D

I've got a half-built Argent that the transition fits a little loosely in the 2" tube. I tried a Quest T-50 and the fit is perfect. The Argent nose is a bit tight in the T-50, though.

[danfrank]

This was a failed attempt to light a NON Black Powder motor that was in the upper stage. I even cheated and still didn't get that NON Black powder motor to light.

John Boren

I bet a little Thermalite would have done the job.... :)

By the way, when will the F15 and E16 motors be available for sale? Anybody know?

Daniel

[r12ski]

In a nother day or so most of the Pro Series II parts will be listed on the Estes Web Site. Some are up there now. The parts should be available for purchase very soon I would guess.



http://www.estesrockets.com/rockets/pro-series/parts



John Boren

:eek: I wish they had those for sale 2 years ago when I cloned a Lance Beta! Especially the 3" coupler. That's great they are selling the parts.

[turbofireball]

I bet a little Thermalite would have done the job.... :)

By the way, when will the F15 and E16 motors be available for sale? Anybody know?

Daniel
The motors are currently due in late July or August, the E2X kits for them are due in August.

[BEC]

Of course, the vaguely mentioned "non-black powder motor" that was in the model as an upper stage motor could be one of those that uses a cardboard casing with no integral nozzle end thrust ring. I wonder if we will see those soon as well?

I was there. It wasn't. It's up to John to share more if he wants to....