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Ltvscout
03-02-2007, 10:46 PM
Ok, I've kept you guys waiting in suspense long enough. Estes announced today that their 2007 catalogs are being released so I can now let you know what the other two re-release kits are that you're going to see in there.

And the first one is..........


#2050 Super Neon

This is a tube-fin kit that was only made in 1991. You can see a picture of it in a 1991 catalog I sent to Sven here:

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/estes91/91est34.html

And now, for the coup de gras. May I have a drum roll please..... The second re-release is.....


#0651 Der Red Max

This kit came out as one of the new Citation line kits from Estes in 1971. It stuck around until 1987. Its first catalog # was MK-2. It then became #KC-2 in 1973. In 1975 it finally changed to #0651. You can see a picture of it in the Citation line catalog I sent to Sven here:

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/citation71/71cit10.html

Watch for more new re-releases from Estes later this year and into 2008.

Remember, you heard it at Ye Olde Rocket Forum first!

tbzep
03-02-2007, 10:58 PM
WOW!

I can't believe the Red Max is being re-released in this day and age of every Tom, Dieter, and Mathias crying out that they are offended and demand political correctness be forced on one and all. I raise my glass to Estes!

Ltvscout
03-02-2007, 11:00 PM
WOW!

I can't believe the Red Max is being re-released in this day and age of every Tom, Dieter, and Mathias crying out that they are offended and demand political correctness be forced on one and all. I raise my glass to Estes!
Nah, us German's are not easily offended.

Ltvscout
03-02-2007, 11:03 PM
Sorry, the links that I had to the pics in the catalogs didn't work initially. I've now fixed them in the top post. Thanks to Maagic from TRF for pointing this out.

dtomko
03-02-2007, 11:04 PM
WOW!

I can't believe the Red Max is being re-released in this day and age of every Tom, Dieter, and Mathias crying out that they are offended and demand political correctness be forced on one and all. I raise my glass to Estes!

Dieter?? You mean this guy?? How could he be offended??

Ltvscout
03-02-2007, 11:06 PM
Dieter?? You mean this guy?? How could he be offended??
All we need now is for Shreadvector to toss in a link to a soundbite of the music Dieter would play when it was time to dance. :p You out there, Fred?

tbzep
03-02-2007, 11:07 PM
Nah, us German's are not easily offended.

Could you help me come up with some better German sounding names for my Tom, Dick, and Harry angle? :D

I would imagine the big hoohaa would come from people that have no clue whether they have any German blood or not....but just love to try to ram PC down our throats.

I've got an old Citation, a regular 0651 kit, and a clone with my own decals, but I'm definately going to pick up a kit or three. I'm not happy with my clone's decals anyway. I had to use white decal material and then overlay it with clear decal paper for black. It's thick yet the white decal material is a light pink because it just isn't very opaque.

Ltvscout
03-02-2007, 11:10 PM
I've got an old Citation, a regular 0651 kit, and a clone with my own decals, but I'm definately going to pick up a kit or three. I'm not happy with my clone's decals anyway. I had to use white decal material and then overlay it with clear decal paper for black. It's thick yet the white decal material is a light pink because it just isn't very opaque.
Yes, I'm hoping that the re-release decals are waterslide. I'll see if I can find that out ahead of time. ;)

The original Citation kit had the cool 2-piece black plastic nose cone. Same one was used in the Patriot.

Oh, I forgot to mention. If any of you are holding on to original kits that you were looking to sell, I'd post them pronto before the market falls out from under them.

tbzep
03-02-2007, 11:16 PM
All of mine are built and have flown. My old Citation has the heavy injection molded black cone. It is unpainted and still weighs twice as much as my painted blow molded PNC-60AH cones. :cool:

dtomko
03-02-2007, 11:23 PM
Yes, I'm hoping that the re-release decals are waterslide. I'll see if I can find that out ahead of time. ;)

The original Citation kit had the cool 2-piece black plastic nose cone. Same one was used in the Patriot.

Oh, I forgot to mention. If any of you are holding on to original kits that you were looking to sell, I'd post them pronto before the market falls out from under them.

Let's hope for waterslide! This is an excellent sign from Estes.

I wonder if they are going to get aggressive with any of the clone makers now.


Drew

tbzep
03-02-2007, 11:31 PM
If they aren't waterslide, I won't buy any kits. My homemade decals look better and are easier to deal with than peel-n-cuss.

Is anybody doing a Red Max clone? I'd imagine they would only go after the ones that they plan to re-release and leave the others alone. Every clone that's built will need motors, so a clone of something they aren't releasing will still generate profit for them, with or without a royalty.

rokitflite
03-03-2007, 12:35 AM
I wonder if the instructions or decals will be altered for more political correctness. This IS good news from Estes, but my next kit is gonna be way cooler :D .

Tau Zero
03-03-2007, 12:57 AM
I wonder if the instructions or decals will be altered for more political correctness. This IS good news from Estes, but my next kit is gonna be way cooler :D .You mean, the one *after* the Raptor. :rolleyes: ;) :D :p (Which I'm still waiting for from Quest. Just 'cause it's an original Scott Branche design. :cool: )

Cheers,

Leo
03-03-2007, 02:30 AM
Scott, thats very good news.

Estes did a fine pick with the Der Red Max :)

http://www.leo.nutz.de/images/rockets/derredmax.jpg

I'll probably turn mine into Der Big Red Max :)

(Also hoping for water slide decals)

cas2047
03-03-2007, 09:01 AM
Excellent News on the Red Max!

Not sure why they are going with the Neon, but the Red Max is a great first step. Perhaps Estes is getting back on track.

rokitflite
03-03-2007, 09:02 AM
You mean, the one *after* the Raptor. :rolleyes: ;) :D :p (Which I'm still waiting for from Quest. Just 'cause it's an original Scott Branche design. :cool: )

Cheers,


Um Yeah... The Rap-tor, It goes up under rocket power then it comes right down and lands on the ground then out comes the man from Mars and you try to run but he's got a gun and he shoots you dead then he eats your head... :D

Ltvscout
03-03-2007, 09:07 AM
I wonder if the instructions or decals will be altered for more political correctness. This IS good news from Estes, but my next kit is gonna be way cooler :D .
Yes, we can always use some good sci-fi type kits!

I'd like to see Estes refer to one of these two catalogs for bringing back some cool designs:

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/estes80/80estcat.html

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/nostalgia/81estcat.html

JRThro
03-03-2007, 09:55 AM
#2050 Super Neon

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/estes91/91est34.html


#0651 Der Red Max

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/citation71/71cit10.html

Scott, of course, after I clicked on those links, I spent the next 10 minutes looking at the *rest* of the catalog! There are a lot of cool kits in there.
:rolleyes: :eek:

tbzep
03-03-2007, 10:49 AM
I wonder why they re-released the Super Neon. It's not the most handsome model, and it evidently didn't sell well or it would have lasted more than one year. It makes me wonder if Quest and others are selling a lot of tube fin rockets and Estes is doing a bit of industrial espionage. :D

Even if that was the reason, I think I'd go with a completely new traditional tube rocket without fins and work up a retro sci-fi style paint and decal scheme (maybe some classic Astron Shrike style decals) instead of re-releasing the SN.

foose4string
03-03-2007, 10:54 AM
I'm happy about the Red Max announcement.....but the Super Neon?????? Who made that executive decision? :D That '91 catalog has stuff in it way cooler than the Neon.

They could re-release everything from page 39 on, and do better than the Neon. Here's what they skipped on in favor of the Neon(from that catalog anyway): ??????
Super Big Bertha
Strike Fighter !!!!
Star Rider
Solar Sailer
Recruiter
SWAT
Stealth
Phoenix
Trident
Deep Space Transport
Solar Probe
Super Vega
Black Brant II
Explorer Aquarius
Space Shuttle
Little Joe II- Semroc saves the day
Sat IB-Semroc saves the day
Saturn V
Titan IIIE

And that's just to name a few...I don't get it. I'm sure there's more to come, but if I were trying to make a statement, I wouldn't have started with the Super Neon. I can see kit bash potential coming from it, but that's about it. Welll, at least we get the MAX! :)

cas2047
03-03-2007, 12:09 PM
I agree with tbzep and Foose4string on the Neon. I don't understand why Estes would go with a fairly non exciting rocket that was only offered for one year when there are so many other worthy candidates for bring back...

Although I must say that having the Red Max back (as long as it has waterslide decals) more than compensates.

No offense to those of you who really like the Neon.

Randy K
03-03-2007, 01:07 PM
Now only if we could get Estes to re-release these kits at the prices from back then too :D

Ok, I've kept you guys waiting in suspense long enough. Estes announced today that their 2007 catalogs are being released so I can now let you know what the other two re-release kits are that you're going to see in there.

And the first one is..........


#2050 Super Neon

This is a tube-fin kit that was only made in 1991. You can see a picture of it in a 1991 catalog I sent to Sven here:

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/estes91/91est34.html

And now, for the coup de gras. May I have a drum roll please..... The second re-release is.....


#0651 Der Red Max

This kit came out as one of the new Citation line kits from Estes in 1971. It stuck around until 1987. Its first catalog # was MK-2. It then became #KC-2 in 1973. In 1975 it finally changed to #0651. You can see a picture of it in the Citation line catalog I sent to Sven here:

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/citation71/71cit10.html

Watch for more new re-releases from Estes later this year and into 2008.

Remember, you heard it at Ye Olde Rocket Forum first!

A Fish Named Wallyum
03-03-2007, 02:43 PM
Kudos to Estes. The Super Neon is pretty cool by itself, for the sake of its obscurity if nothing else. The Max is a pretty ballsy reissue in the PC climate of today. I guess the lines at Hobby Lobby are going to be long when this arrives. Hopefully it's not just temporary. :cool:

A Fish Named Wallyum
03-03-2007, 02:45 PM
Um Yeah... The Rap-tor, It goes up under rocket power then it comes right down and lands on the ground then out comes the man from Mars and you try to run but he's got a gun and he shoots you dead then he eats your head... :D

Blondie, Scott? Is that really necessary? :rolleyes:

Chas Russell
03-03-2007, 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by rokitflite
Um Yeah... The Rap-tor, It goes up under rocket power then it comes right down and lands on the ground then out comes the man from Mars and you try to run but he's got a gun and he shoots you dead then he eats your head...

Da Fish sez:

"Blondie, Scott? Is that really necessary?"

Geez, even a tragically un-hip person like me remembers "Rapture".

I don't sleep well...

Always told my daughter while she was growing up. "You know too much, Earthling..."

Never owned a Der Red Max kit, nor do I find the inclination to purchase one, water-slide decals or not. I be German on my mother's side.


Chas

rokitflite
03-03-2007, 05:24 PM
Blondie, Scott? Is that really necessary? :rolleyes:


Hey, I didn't start with that Centuri Guy did! Well, anyway, the tide is high so I better be moving on...

-Scott :D

Tau Zero
03-03-2007, 05:55 PM
Hey, I didn't start with that Centuri Guy did! Well, anyway, the tide is high so I better be moving on...I don't mind inspiring things. ;) :D

Just as long as it's not the revolution. :eek:


Cheers,

Phred
03-03-2007, 09:20 PM
Although I the Red Max is one of my most popular decals, I look forward to this release. As long as the decals are waterslide... :)

The Super Neon? I am confused.... :confused:

Anyway,
Forget Dieter, here is what I always think of whenever I see my Red Max:

http://tinyurl.com/2y99rx

Phred

rokitflite
03-03-2007, 09:43 PM
Yeah. I did not even remember what the super Neon looked like until I went to the link Scott provided... Uhhhhg! All the coolness of a tube fin rocket PLUS the hassle of filling a bunch of balsa wood fins! Bad choice as far as I'm concerned! :rolleyes:

The_Forgotten
03-03-2007, 10:03 PM
I guess they're just trying to have a well-rounded out variety of rockets, and lo, an ugly tube finned rocket was missing from their line up... :rolleyes:

The Der Red Max release shows that estes might just be listening to the customer a teensie beet, after all. Now, if they would just re-release the Maxi V2.... :D

Royatl
03-04-2007, 03:31 AM
I guess they're just trying to have a well-rounded out variety of rockets, and lo, an ugly tube finned rocket was missing from their line up... :rolleyes:

The Der Red Max release shows that estes might just be listening to the customer a teensie beet, after all. Now, if they would just re-release the Maxi V2.... :D


come on, they just did that a few years ago. If ya really need one that bad, I got three or four of them.

What we really should get is the maxi Pershing!

Ltvscout
03-04-2007, 08:38 AM
The Der Red Max release shows that estes might just be listening to the customer a teensie beet, after all. Now, if they would just re-release the Maxi V2.... :D
They already did back in the Fall of 2001. It was sold till 2004. They also re-released the Maxi Honest John in 2000. The Saturn V was re-released around the time frame of the V2 as well.

Ltvscout
03-04-2007, 08:38 AM
What we really should get is the maxi Pershing!
I'd go for that!

cas2047
03-04-2007, 10:03 AM
I'd go for that!

Ditto!

The_Forgotten
03-04-2007, 12:15 PM
They already did back in the Fall of 2001. It was sold till 2004. They also re-released the Maxi Honest John in 2000. The Saturn V was re-released around the time frame of the V2 as well.


Pardone me`, 2004 was a year before I got serious into the hobby; bad timing, for sure. :( And in any event, the most recent Maxi re-releases are already fetching a fair dollar GREeD-bay, and on any public forum where one has been offered for sale, and I'm not into the contest of paying the highest dollar for one. And, although I know you are right on the HoJo, they have already become a rarity any place I look for one... :mad: So, if they're scarce to find but loved, I don't think a request for a re-re-release is a bad idea... :cool:

And at the risk of being publicly flogged, I never much cared for the pershing; just an odd looker to me... :eek:


*ducks for cover* :o ;)

sandman
03-04-2007, 12:25 PM
And at the risk of being publicly flogged, I never much cared for the pershing; just an odd looker to me... :eek:


*ducks for cover* :o ;)

Actually I think "ugly" was part of it's charm.

Ltvscout
03-04-2007, 02:52 PM
Pardone me`, 2004 was a year before I got serious into the hobby; bad timing, for sure. :( And in any event, the most recent Maxi re-releases are already fetching a fair dollar GREeD-bay, and on any public forum where one has been offered for sale, and I'm not into the contest of paying the highest dollar for one.
Send a PM to Roy. Maybe you and he can work out a price agreeable to the both of you for one of the extras he has.

cas2047
03-04-2007, 05:08 PM
And at the risk of being publicly flogged, I never much cared for the pershing; just an odd looker to me... :eek:


Say it aint so! :eek:

A Fish Named Wallyum
03-04-2007, 06:03 PM
And at the risk of being publicly flogged, I never much cared for the pershing; just an odd looker to me... :eek:


*ducks for cover* :o ;)

There's your problem. Chicks dig Pershings. :cool:

sandman
03-04-2007, 07:22 PM
I don't know what it is about the Pershing 1a but for a time there I couldn't make those nose cones fast enough.

I think I have one left.

Oh well, eat all ya want...I'll make more. :D

kurtschachner
03-04-2007, 08:56 PM
Well here, you all better bid on this before Scott grabs them:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Estes-V-2-Pershing-and-Honest-John-Maxi-Brute-Set_W0QQitemZ150097605894QQihZ005QQcategoryZ2567QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

He has other stuff for sale, all about the same price :(

A Fish Named Wallyum
03-04-2007, 09:09 PM
Well here, you all better bid on this before Scott grabs them:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Estes-V-2-Pershing-and-Honest-John-Maxi-Brute-Set_W0QQitemZ150097605894QQihZ005QQcategoryZ2567QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

He has other stuff for sale, all about the same price :(

Covington, Kentucky is about ten minutes from me, but I don't recognize the name.
$50 for postage and handling! Is he driving them to the winner personally? :eek:

foose4string
03-04-2007, 09:26 PM
Covington, Kentucky is about ten minutes from me, but I don't recognize the name.
$50 for postage and handling! Is he driving them to the winner personally? :eek:

I think the personal delivery is only part of it. The handling charge is for when he helps you build it too! :D

Ltvscout
03-04-2007, 11:16 PM
Well here, you all better bid on this before Scott grabs them:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Estes-V-2-Pershing-and-Honest-John-Maxi-Brute-Set_W0QQitemZ150097605894QQihZ005QQcategoryZ2567QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

He has other stuff for sale, all about the same price :(
Heh, not me. I have multiples of those already. ;)

I can't believe someone is paying $500 (with shipping) for this though!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Estes-Pro-Seies-Set_W0QQitemZ150097603592QQihZ005QQcategoryZ2567QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Shreadvector
03-05-2007, 07:53 AM
http://www.wavsource.com/snds_2007-03-01_62925527301054/tv/snl/myers_sprockets_dance.wav

All we need now is for Shreadvector to toss in a link to a soundbite of the music Dieter would play when it was time to dance. :p You out there, Fred?

Rocketflyer
03-05-2007, 08:12 AM
[QUOTE=tbzep]Could you help me come up with some better German sounding names for my Tom, Dick, and Harry angle? :D


Deiter, Rolf und Hans. ;-)

dtomko
03-05-2007, 08:42 AM
http://www.wavsource.com/snds_2007-03-01_62925527301054/tv/snl/myers_sprockets_dance.wav

For some reason that link pops me over to a page on Amazon.com :confused:

The_Forgotten
03-05-2007, 01:50 PM
from estes' forum (also posted on TRF)




Originally posted by scigs 30: Christine (snip) tol me that the Der Red Max decals are waterslide.

:D

And that out of control auction is case in point and living proof that estes should re-introduced the Maxi-Brute line. ;) :p :cool:

Daniel Runyon
03-05-2007, 03:47 PM
My son instantly dug the Neon when he saw the catalog today. If he digs something they've done then that's good enough for me.

ghrocketman
03-05-2007, 04:04 PM
I can think of about 100 kits I'd like too see Estes re-introduce before the BOOOOORRRRINGGG easily cloned Red Mux and the UBER BORING Stupor Neon.

Ltvscout
03-08-2007, 09:58 AM
What we really should get is the maxi Pershing!
I'm told that unless Estes spends the money to make new tooling, we won't see the Maxi Pershing re-released. The original tooling was either accidentally destroyed or stolen. My source doesn't recall which of the two it was.

sandman
03-08-2007, 10:09 AM
In the meantime I can make BT-101 Pershing cones out of balsa.

I make them is three pieces, tip, center and base.

I hollow them out but you need to add a LOT of nose weight to make them stable.

I can provide a "slug" of lead to fit the hole in the center section.

But in all honesty...the BT-80 version flies much much better on a "D" motor.

The_Forgotten
03-08-2007, 07:26 PM
I'm told that unless Estes spends the money to make new tooling, we won't see the Maxi Pershing re-released. The original tooling was either accidentally destroyed or stolen. My source doesn't recall which of the two it was.


Alright, someone step forward and come clean before bad karma finds its way to you...




Who thought that they could make a little extra money reproducing the pershing kits, since estes "wasn't using the molds anyway, didn't think they'd mind.... : ;) ;) :D

Royatl
03-08-2007, 11:30 PM
I'm told that unless Estes spends the money to make new tooling, we won't see the Maxi Pershing re-released. The original tooling was either accidentally destroyed or stolen. My source doesn't recall which of the two it was.


I've heard that story about any number of old plastic parts from Estes. One was that the Centuri 1/45 LJ II Apollo had been lost or destroyed, then a couple of years later Estes shows up at NARAM with a Saturn IB made with some test shots from that mold.

Someone even told me the fire in '99 destroyed the Dark Star casing mold and that is why Estes stopped selling those motors.

Another story was that Estes destroyed the mold for the Maxi V-2 back in the '80's because the early high power guys were using the nose cones on their rockets.

Ltvscout
03-08-2007, 11:53 PM
Another story was that Estes destroyed the mold for the Maxi V-2 back in the '80's because the early high power guys were using the nose cones on their rockets.
The Estes Maxi V-2 mold was sold on eBay a year or so ago.

Green Dragon
03-10-2007, 12:07 PM
The Estes Maxi V-2 mold was sold on eBay a year or so ago.

no kidding ?

now here's a story I obviously missed, and would liek to hear about - any other info , who bought it , who sold it ( and how'd they get it, etc )

~ AL

inquiring minds want to know

Ltvscout
03-10-2007, 12:15 PM
no kidding ?

now here's a story I obviously missed, and would liek to hear about - any other info , who bought it , who sold it ( and how'd they get it, etc )

~ AL

inquiring minds want to know
I don't know how the person got the molds. The molds sold were for the fins, not the cones. It was about a year or two ago. I don't recall who bought it. It "may" have been CR2Sales that sold it. He's selling off Nate Carmon's huge collection.

BTW, CR2 is selling a bunch of old motors. He's looking for bids by 7pm Sunday night. If people are interested I can post photos and the engine list.