Chad staging at Bong launches

[aeppel_cpm]

I went looking on the clubs website, but didn't find a definitive answer. Is there any prohibition against chad staging low power (13mm) non-competition flights at Bong launches?

It seems like an easier path to 13mm B impulse than handing over a big wad of cash to Jerry - and then facing a certification process :-) For the motors. For me. (Wait, NAR doesn't do experimental). For my sanity.

[LeeR]

I went looking on the clubs website, but didn't find a definitive answer. Is there any prohibition against chad staging low power (13mm) non-competition flights at Bong launches?

It seems like an easier path to 13mm B impulse than handing over a big wad of cash to Jerry - and then facing a certification process :-) For the motors. For me. (Wait, NAR doesn't do experimental). For my sanity.

I looked for the same information for a club I plan to fly with this Fall. I could not find anything, so I'll guess I'll just email them. I want to build an old 2-stage design that was an Estes plan -- the Augie II (DOM Plan #28). I built this as a kid, and loved the rocket. It is a "ducted" design. The "upper" stage is a BT-20, and the booster motor is contained within a larger BT-60 tube, but falls freely.

I suppose I could actually build a booster section that has fins, and held within the BT-60, if CHAD staging is not allowed.

Here is a picture of the first page of the old plan, on JimZ Plans. This would make a great upscale, too, for 24mm or 29mm BP motors.

[Ltvscout]

I went looking on the clubs website, but didn't find a definitive answer. Is there any prohibition against chad staging low power (13mm) non-competition flights at Bong launches?
You'll probably want to ask Chad if he's ok with being staged. :chuckle:

[aeppel_cpm]

I know the proper staging for that kind of Chad. A cider booster with a whiskey sustainer. No issues.

[tbzep]

It is only against competition rules, not any general NAR codes. If your club allows featherweight recovery models like the Estes Mosquito or Streak, the chad stager should fall under the same allowances.

[ghrocketman]

Chad staging seems to be approved but just don't EVER try Frank, Sam, or Joe.

[PaulK]

I went looking on the clubs website, but didn't find a definitive answer. Is there any prohibition against chad staging low power (13mm) non-competition flights at Bong launches?

It seems like an easier path to 13mm B impulse than handing over a big wad of cash to Jerry - and then facing a certification process :-) For the motors. For me. (Wait, NAR doesn't do experimental). For my sanity.Chad staging will be allowed at the discretion of the RSO. We normally allow them, if the model looks like it will fly safely, and not be a fire danger. (Example: Dry conditions, chad-staged saucer, may not be allowed)

[MadHatter]

I went looking on the clubs website, but didn't find a definitive answer. Is there any prohibition against chad staging low power (13mm) non-competition flights at Bong launches?

It seems like an easier path to 13mm B impulse than handing over a big wad of cash to Jerry - and then facing a certification process :-) For the motors. For me. (Wait, NAR doesn't do experimental). For my sanity.

As long as the motors are taped together and the lower booster falls away it is allowed, EXCEPT during dry conditions at the Bong where a fire can occur.

[chadrog]

I know the proper staging for that kind of Chad. A cider booster with a whiskey sustainer. No issues.
Bringo!

[aeppel_cpm]

Deferring to fire hazards makes sense.
Thanks for a definitive answer.

I've been pondering the notion of making a banner for you folks - the retracts-into-the-base kind - that would list the basic rules and procedures for flying with WOOSH at Bong. You could set it at the path from the parking area to the registration/flight line area for all the Boy Scouts and new folks to read. Boy Scouts get a Literacy badge, right? :-)

Maybe with a little 'provided by' credit at the bottom.

[Daddyisabar]

I looked for the same information for a club I plan to fly with this Fall. I could not find anything, so I'll guess I'll just email them. I want to build an old 2-stage design that was an Estes plan -- the Augie II (DOM Plan #28). I built this as a kid, and loved the rocket. It is a "ducted" design. The "upper" stage is a BT-20, and the booster motor is contained within a larger BT-60 tube, but falls freely.

I suppose I could actually build a booster section that has fins, and held within the BT-60, if CHAD staging is not allowed.

Here is a picture of the first page of the old plan, on JimZ Plans. This would make a great upscale, too, for 24mm or 29mm BP motors.

At CRASH we fly two and three motor Comanches all the time. A member just flew a four motor, old school 1960's Astron Farside this spring. This winter I might try another five motor rack rocket.

[Joe Wooten]

Deferring to fire hazards makes sense.
Thanks for a definitive answer.

I've been pondering the notion of making a banner for you folks - the retracts-into-the-base kind - that would list the basic rules and procedures for flying with WOOSH at Bong. You could set it at the path from the parking area to the registration/flight line area for all the Boy Scouts and new folks to read. Boy Scouts get a Literacy badge, right? :-)

Maybe with a little 'provided by' credit at the bottom.

A WOOSHer is.....

[aeppel_cpm]

A WOOSHer is.....

This might take two banners. I think this would have been helpful my first time and includes some of the things I witness, along with the basics from the WOOSH website. Consider also, there are a lot of youngsters some days.

A WOOSHER:

* Obeys LCO HEADS UP calls
* Stays in the observing and parking areas unless registering or flying
* Keeps off the rocks and out of the water unless recovering a rocket
* Doesn't catch rockets and handles only their own rocket unless invited
* Abstains from alcohol and tobacco while on the range

Who is Flying:
* Follows NAR rules
* Has their membership and certification cards ready
* Registers each day, paying the appropriate fee for >E impulse
* Prepares a flight card for each flight
* Prepares their rocket for flight in the parking area
* Approaches the RSO table one at a time for inspection and pad assignment
* Is prepared with a flight plan for High Power Flights
* Accepts the RSO's fly/no-fly decision as final.
* Waits behind the flight line until the LCO calls RANGE OPEN to set up
* Follows the instructions of the Range Crew
* Sets up rocket on assigned pad, adjusts aim and checks starter continuity
* Returns to behind the Flight line for their flight
* Waits for LCO calls RANGE OPEN for recovery
* Doesn't loiter in the Flight Area after their flight

Who's Who and What's What
Registrar: collects registration, fees, and has blank flight cards
RSO = Range Safety Officer: inspects rockets before flight, monitors range
LCO = Launch Control Office: assigns pads, verifies aim, operates equipment
Range Crew: Kind Helpers out at the pads
Flight Line : Marked by cones behind the LCO/RSO shelter
HEADS UP : step out from under shelter and watch the sky for complex flight and/or falling parts
RANGE OPEN : flyers may cross the flight line and go out to the pads
High Power Flight Plan : motor retention method (no friction >G), expected stability, expected altitude (<Waiver), recovery method, how each was determined, 48 hour prior notice plus assist setup/tear-down for Away Pad use (M or complex)
FAA Waiver : 10,000' MSL

[Joe Wooten]

Why tobacco?

The smell of burnt black powder will overwhelm the smell of burning tobacco from the few who still smoke.....

Anyone who states differently is just one of those Nazi nannies who love to tell everyone what to do.

[aeppel_cpm]

That's from the WOOSH website, it's not one of my contributions.

(can I go run and hide now?)

The website actually says 'smoking', rather than 'tobacco'. But since 'alcohol' is a noun (and somewhat dear to my heart), I switched the other to a noun to match. Grammar Gorilla in me sneaking out.

[LeeR]

At CRASH we fly two and three motor Comanches all the time. A member just flew a four motor, old school 1960's Astron Farside this spring. This winter I might try another five motor rack rocket.

Hoping to get to the 2nd CRASH launch this month. Out of town for the first launch. I've got a couple 2-stagers I might fly. An upscaled Augie II is likely a Winter project, so no worries for this particular CHAD-staged rocket for awhile.

Four and five stagers - I gotta see these! Love the old Farside and Farside-X.

[ghrocketman]

Sounds like WAYYYYYYY too many rules which equals nuthin' but grief in my book.
Usually there are a few PRIGS at organized launches that have to focus on garbage instead of FLYING.

[luke strawwalker]

Why tobacco?

The smell of burnt black powder will overwhelm the smell of burning tobacco from the few who still smoke.....

Anyone who states differently is just one of those Nazi nannies who love to tell everyone what to do.

Maybe because others don't want to breathe it, or have their kids have to breathe it??

Now one can launch into an argument about the unhealthy compounds in burned black powder rocket motors, and that the scent of burned BP contains sulfur dioxide and other harmful stuff and all that... but of course, if someone didn't think that was healthy for their kids, they could just not come to a rocket launch...

Then there's the fire hazard... tossed butts can not only start grass fires, but are littering and disrespectful to the property owner hosting the launch as well, and either would make the club look bad and possibly lose them their launch site. Not all smokers toss their butts, to be sure, but many do, and the temptation when outdoors is undeniable. Now one can launch into an argument about how the risk of a fire starting from hot particles expelled from rocket motors at launch, hot ignitor wires landing in the grass, and late ejections, land sharks, catos, or other malfunctions are much more likely to start a grass fire than tossed butts... which is undoubtedly true, but the more sources of ignition that are eliminated, the better. Also, the RSO/LCO SHOULD be watching the pad area after launches for signs of grass fires igniting, and stopping them ASAP. Nobody is watching tossed butts in the prep or parking area...

One thing is undeniable-- smoking sets a bad example for kids attending launches. Do kids see dozens of people a day smoking here, there, and yon?? Sure... BUT those are "random strangers" who have little/no interaction with the kids or impact on their lives. Having folks they interact with smoking does tend to be more influencing on the kids than random strangers.

At any rate, if the club says "no tobacco" or "no smoking" (personally I find chewing tobacco and spitting to be just as nasty as smoking) then one should abide by those rules, or find somewhere else to fly... Start your own cigar and rocket club, perhaps...

Later! OL JR :)

[ghrocketman]

TOTAL OPPOSITE OPINION; I have ZERO problem with TOSSED BUTTS or chewin' terbaccy SPITTOR juice on even MY property.
Lawn mowers chew up most all butts, and don't really give any creedence to the 'example for kids' crapola either.
What I would like to see is a return to the 60's/70's/'Mad Men' attitude toward smoking and drinking. I see NOTHING wrong with lunch washed down with 3 Vodka Martinis and about 4 Marlboros. NOT JOKING EITHER.

[luke strawwalker]

TOTAL OPPOSITE OPINION; I have ZERO problem with TOSSED BUTTS or chewin' terbaccy SPITTOR juice on even MY property.
Lawn mowers chew up most all butts, and don't really give any creedence to the 'example for kids' crapola either.
What I would like to see is a return to the 60's/70's/'Mad Men' attitude toward smoking and drinking. I see NOTHING wrong with lunch washed down with 3 Vodka Martinis and about 4 Marlboros. NOT JOKING EITHER.

Well, that's YOU, and then there's THE REST OF THE WORLD.

If you're a guest on someone else's land, (or home) you should have respect for their wishes.

I host launches on my farms, and I prefer folks don't smoke for the reasons cited earlier. Mainly the tossed butts/littering thing, the fire hazard from tossed butts, and the not wanting to smell that d@mn stuff myself either. I did have to jump on the club boss one time because I picked up a whole handful of tossed ignitor wires that had been dropped on the ground around the launch rack setup. Could have perforated a cows mouth, tongue, or guts. Picked up a handful of the plastic ignitor plugs as well (and kept those for my own use) and another pocketful of used wadding, which in most cases can be used again, and I do. While a lawnmower MIGHT chew up most of the butts, then you have filters and bits of filter material scattered all over the place, which is even a bigger mess. Also, typical pasture shredders, mowers, and "bush-hogs" ain't gonna do anything to most butts and other stuff.

Wadding that doesn't get picked up, I don't mind so much-- it'll eventually rot away to nothing, after a few rains. What I don't want scattered everywhere is spent ignitors and tossed cig butts...

If you can't handle that, STAY THE F^#* AT HOME.... go launch somewhere else...

Later! OL JR :)

[georgegassaway]

Why tobacco?

The smell of burnt black powder will overwhelm the smell of burning tobacco from the few who still smoke.....

Anyone who states differently is just one of those Nazi nannies who love to tell everyone what to do.

A few years ago, at a big launch in Arizona, there were a couple of guys in lounge chairs, just smoking away, butts all around. Well, occasionally a bad rocket flight would crash and people would check for fires.

There was a crash in their direction but no problem till la few minutes later … FIRE!!! A fire really got going. Wow, how did that crashed rocket start a fire that went os long undetected? Those two (can't call them here the names they deserve) scrambled, one got into his car and drove it out of the way of the fire so it did not get burned up, a KID was nearby and ALMOST HIT by his car since he was only concerned about his car and nothing or nobody else. Fortunately the fire got put out without having to call in the fire department

But the fire was NOT due to a rocket. After the excitement settled down, it turned out it was those two (Words I want to say but can't), one of their tossed cigarettes started the fire. So Karma tried to burn their car up!

If I was in charge, they'd have been banned from launches for a year, if not banned forever, for that reckless and irresponsible behavior.

Actually, it was federal land, they could have potentially been charged with negligent arson or reckless burning. But then if they'd been reported the club might have lost access to the field (which eventually they did anyway for totally different reasons).

- George Gassaway

[aeppel_cpm]

With regard to the fire hazard, it does seem like smoking -on- the range would be the safest. Monitored and handy fire extinguishers.

If someone wants to smoke back at their car while prepping deployment charges, I mostly ask for a heads up so I can get my camera.

[Kevin Huddleston]

Bringo!

Dr. Steve Brule! I wonder who else even guessed at this reference. :chuckle:

[chadrog]

Dr. Steve Brule! I wonder who else even guessed at this reference. :chuckle:
I'm sure Scott did.

[Ltvscout]

I'm sure Scott did.
When Chad staging at Bong be sure to bring a broat in case the rocket lands in the pond, you dingus!

[Kevin Huddleston]

When Chad staging at Bong be sure to bring a broat in case the rocket lands in the pond, you dingus!

LOL! Love it. John C. Reilly is a genius.

[aeppel_cpm]

Chad approved staging.
(In contrast to approved CHAD staging)

[chadrog]

Bhaaaaaaa! Light that candle!

[Kevin Huddleston]

Bhaaaaaaa! Light that candle!

I think you mean "crandle", ya drangus

[chadrog]

I think you mean "crandle", ya drangus
Derp...