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handeman
03-25-2007, 09:15 AM
I'm looking for plans for the Estes Avenger? I'm not sure of the name of this one although I'm sure it was an Estes. I got it about 1973-4.

It was a large Estes two stage payloader. Stood about 30-36 inches high. Had a reducer about 2/3 the way up the rocket. The upper payload was BT-50 and the lower was BT-60. Used B & C motors.

This was the last rocket I got as a kid. Spent all winter (in Wis.) building it. The first launch, the sustainer didn't fire and it lawn darted. Last launch I did for the next 25 years.

I would really like to try it again. Any help locating plans would be greatly appreciated.

handeman
03-25-2007, 09:29 AM
Guess I should have searched a little harder. :o

I found a link to the plans with a google search at rec.models.rockets. They have a number of plans in their archive at http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/archives/rec.models.rockets/PLANS/

BAR FAQs for rec.models.rockets There are some good links here.
http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/rmrfaq.4.html

CPMcGraw
03-25-2007, 10:10 AM
Guess I should have searched a little harder. :o

I found a link to the plans with a google search at rec.models.rockets. They have a number of plans in their archive at http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/archives/rec.models.rockets/PLANS/

BAR FAQs for rec.models.rockets There are some good links here.
http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/rmrfaq.4.html

Actually, it isn't that difficult.

JimZ has this set: http://www.dars.org/jimz/k-38.htm

For a near-complete list of Estes plans and where they are located, check this list: http://www.rocketshoppe.com/info/estes_expanded_kit_list.htm

handeman
03-25-2007, 11:26 AM
Actually, it isn't that difficult.

JimZ has this set: http://www.dars.org/jimz/k-38.htm

For a near-complete list of Estes plans and where they are located, check this list: http://www.rocketshoppe.com/info/estes_expanded_kit_list.htm

Maybe for you :rolleyes:

If I really need to find something, I usually have the wife look for it. She seems to be able to find anything on the internet while I can't seem to find anything. Must be something about webpages I just don't get.

I spent at least a half hour at the rocketshoppe site using the search function and found NOTHING on the Drifter or the Avenger.

ghrocketman
03-25-2007, 11:31 AM
I'm just getting started on building a NIB original Estes Astron Avenger. :D :D
Unfortunately I don't have a scanner or I'd send you the plans.

CPMcGraw
03-25-2007, 11:43 AM
Maybe for you :rolleyes:

If I really need to find something, I usually have the wife look for it. She seems to be able to find anything on the internet while I can't seem to find anything. Must be something about webpages I just don't get.

I spent at least a half hour at the rocketshoppe site using the search function and found NOTHING on the Drifter or the Avenger.

The Expanded Estes Kit List was created to make all of the known available Estes plans accessable from one web page. There are links to the plans, there are also links to the Ninfinger catalog pages where the model was introduced. When there is a MRN page available for a prototype (pre-kit release of the design) we have a link to that plan as well.

Of all the lists available on the internet for locating kit plans, I think this one is more complete. I spent a lot of time getting those links in place, and from time-to-time, I go back and revise the list when new plans come available. This list tells you what plans are still missing, so that if someone happens to have that set, it can be made available.

Give the list a second look. I think you'll see it's a valuable resource for this hobby. If the plans are available, you can get to them from this list.

snuggles
03-25-2007, 12:24 PM
I brought my Avenger to NARCON this year to show off at the"Old Rocketeers" table.
The one I have was a store display item. I want to clone a new one as my rocket was built unable to fly( nose glued on) It's a BT55 to BT50 transition you need. I brought my rocket to BMS's table to match up adapters. It's the short one.
Do you need fin templates???
If so, I can trace out my fins and BT dimensions and send them to you.
I had this rocket as a teenager too and I loved the kit as well.
IIRC Phred at Excelsior rocketry has the decals for it too.
Hope this helps
Mark T

handeman
03-25-2007, 04:18 PM
I brought my Avenger to NARCON this year to show off at the"Old Rocketeers" table.
The one I have was a store display item. I want to clone a new one as my rocket was built unable to fly( nose glued on) It's a BT55 to BT50 transition you need. I brought my rocket to BMS's table to match up adapters. It's the short one.
Do you need fin templates???
If so, I can trace out my fins and BT dimensions and send them to you.
I had this rocket as a teenager too and I loved the kit as well.
IIRC Phred at Excelsior rocketry has the decals for it too.
Hope this helps
Mark T

Thanks Mark, I really appriciate the offer. I did get a set of plans and the fin template.

If you could just let me know exactly how long the root edge is on the fins, then I can make sure my template isn't enlarged/reduced from where it needs to be.

Thanks again.

snuggles
03-25-2007, 04:31 PM
Booster root edge is....2 3/4"
Sustainer root edge is...2 1/4"
Mark

handeman
03-25-2007, 06:04 PM
Booster root edge is....2 3/4"
Sustainer root edge is...2 1/4"
Mark
Thanks ...

I just checked those against my fin template. The template must be pretty close. The booster root edge matchs at 2 3/4 inches. The sustainer in only 2 inchs though.

I wonder if they changed the template during the production run?

snuggles
03-25-2007, 08:53 PM
I kinda doubt that the dimensions were changed. Mine looks pretty good as is.
Gotta paint my clone as per the catalog pics.
Good luck with your build.
Mark

handeman
03-26-2007, 06:57 PM
I kinda doubt that the dimensions were changed. Mine looks pretty good as is.
Gotta paint my clone as per the catalog pics.
Good luck with your build.
Mark

Thanks. I have to assemble the parts first, need the BT-55 tubing and adapter.

Right now I'm rebuilding my Twister (Tornado). All I need is launch lugs. Forgot to order them with the tubes, nose cones, etc.

Any suggestions?

CPMcGraw
03-26-2007, 07:25 PM
Thanks. I have to assemble the parts first, need the BT-55 tubing and adapter.

Right now I'm rebuilding my Twister (Tornado). All I need is launch lugs. Forgot to order them with the tubes, nose cones, etc.

Any suggestions?

On that Avenger, remember that on the original, the booster fins are 1/8" thick and the sustainer fins are only 3/32" thick. Surprisingly, it's noticeable...

handeman
03-26-2007, 09:07 PM
On that Avenger, remember that on the original, the booster fins are 1/8" thick and the sustainer fins are only 3/32" thick. Surprisingly, it's noticeable...

Thanks Since you mention it, I do seem to remember that. Good thing I picked up both sizes yesterday.

A Fish Named Wallyum
03-26-2007, 09:36 PM
Thanks. I have to assemble the parts first, need the BT-55 tubing and adapter.

Right now I'm rebuilding my Twister (Tornado). All I need is launch lugs. Forgot to order them with the tubes, nose cones, etc.

Any suggestions?

Order launch lugs? :rolleyes:
Pick up a cheap kit from Hobby Lobby and switch one out.

ghrocketman
03-27-2007, 10:24 AM
I noticed the difference in balsa thickness between the booster and sustainer fins when I opened my original Avenger a couple of weeks back.
I thought it was an error in the balsa stock they used for the die cut fins....guess I was wrong.
This still seems weird to me for one to use thicker fins on the booster when the fins align with each other....one would think this would cause strange airflow issues.
I can see the booster needing 1/8" fins so they do not break upon "tumble" recovery; why not use the SAME on the sustainer ????

sandman
03-27-2007, 12:26 PM
This is how I did the fins on my Avenger.

Kind of exadurated a bit for the sketch. Basically a slot scored into the leading edge of the booster fins for the trailing edge of the sustainer fins to nest in.

handeman
03-27-2007, 03:25 PM
Order launch lugs? :rolleyes:
Pick up a cheap kit from Hobby Lobby and switch one out.

I couldn't do that, then I'd have to get a lug for the cheap kit. Can't have a rocket in the house that can't be launched, unless it died in flight.

I can orders some the next time I order parts, I'm going to need some for the Avenger, Drifter, and any scratch built rockets anyway. I was just hoping someone had a good cheap alternative.

I did find plastic lollipop sticks at Michaels but the ID was just under 1/8 inch.

barone
03-27-2007, 05:27 PM
This is an old trick I learned in high school........

Just roll your own.... :rolleyes:

handeman
03-27-2007, 06:43 PM
This is an old trick I learned in high school........

Just roll your own.... :rolleyes:

High School, Roll my own, what??? :rolleyes: Oh ya, right, launch lugs. ;)

I guess I should have thought of that. I have a whole roll of craft paper I use for rolling my own tubes, guess I can try rolling lugs. I'll try 20lb writing paper unless some has a better suggestion.

Quasar
03-27-2007, 09:14 PM
Hey, ghrocketman. Since you've just opened an original kit and there seems to be some question as to the accuracy of the templates from JimZ's site, would you mind confirming the fin root edge lengths? Thanks.

Mike Fields

ghrocketman
03-28-2007, 10:42 AM
I won't be able to do it tonight, but I should be able to confirm the fin-root length for the booster and sustainer by tomorrow.

Quasar
04-05-2007, 11:26 AM
Bump. :)

Mike Fields

ghrocketman
04-05-2007, 12:55 PM
Quasar--
I'm in Florida right now on vacation and won't be within physical reach of the kit until 4-11-07; I will measure the root lengths when I return to home.
GH

handeman
03-16-2008, 07:36 PM
Can't believe this thread got almost a year old.

The Avenger is done and now flew three times. Here's a pic of it and my Stormcaster.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c355/Handeman/Rockets/Avengerstormcaster01.jpg

The Avenger flew twice last fall. The first flight, C6-0 to B6-6 was a great flight. The second C6-0 to C6-7 didn't work so well. It windcock and was heading out over the treeline. I did a lot of searching where I thought it came down, but took a drive through the neighborhood past that before leaving the area and found it laying in the street. The nose cone was missing.

The Avenger and Stormcaster flew yesterday. The Avenger flew on a C6-0 to C6-7 again. This time there was no wind and the launch rod was straight up. The boost was slow and it wobbled a little but went straight up. When the sustainer fired at about 250 - 300 feet, it screamed! It hit about 1200 feet.

I have come to realize that the Avenger has to fly in low wind conditions. The C6-0 doesn't seem to get it off the pad very fast and wind will definately affect the trajectory.

BTW the Stormcaster flew on a F24-7W RMS. Amazing flight! It hit 1800 ft. in a blink. Even with a 12" chute, it seemed like it took forever to come down. Definately a crowd pleaser.

maxmph
03-19-2008, 08:04 AM
:cool: The Avenger was one of my favorites. I discovered that it (and the similar Centuri Long Tom) flew better with the now defunct B14-0 booster. It got moving way faster and seemed more stable at staging. I had planned to build a D-powered booster for it, but never did.

Doug Sams
03-19-2008, 11:17 AM
I have come to realize that the Avenger has to fly in low wind conditions. The C6-0 doesn't seem to get it off the pad very fast and wind will definately affect the trajectory.Yes! It has lots of fin area on boost, so it looks to be overstable. And it's a lot of rocket for a C6-0 to boost. When the two are combined, weathercocking is bound to happen in any wind at all, so I agree with your idea to fly in low wind only.

I haven't built a 1:1 version of this bird (yet) but my take is that it's begging for 24mm power. That will cure the lift-off speed problems and hence allow it to be flown in other than dead calm.

Doug


.

handeman
03-20-2008, 05:06 PM
I hadn't thought of doing a 24mm booster, but that's a good idea.

The only problem is that when it's a little bit breezy, you put that D12-0 in there, it's going to go even higher, which = longer walk. Still....