First Discontinued Kits

[Carl@Semroc]

After long deliberations, we have decided to discontinue all the CC: Kits. We are out of stock on the Space Plane and X-21 and do not plan on re-kitting the SST Shuttle as a cc: kit when they are gone.

Almost all our complaints and warranty issues have been with the cc: kits.
1. No instructions in kit.
2. Links broken to instructions or can't get to the internet.
3. Bad design.
4. Poorly written instructions.
5. Not up to Semroc's standards.

Far too many customers missed the point of building historically significant kits using Vern's instructions and Lee's instructions. Several people said we should re-release them with "better parts" and Semroc written instructions.

I don't think they were around in the "Old Days." :D

[Ltvscout]

After long deliberations, we have decided to discontinue all the CC: Kits. We are out of stock on the Space Plane and X-21 and do not plan on re-kitting the SST Shuttle as a cc: kit when they are gone.

Almost all our complaints and warranty issues have been with the cc: kits.
1. No instructions in kit.
2. Links broken to instructions or can't get to the internet.
3. Bad design.
4. Poorly written instructions.
5. Not up to Semroc's standards.

Far too many customers missed the point of building historically significant kits using Vern's instructions and Lee's instructions. Several people said we should re-release them with "better parts" and Semroc written instructions.

I don't think they were around in the "Old Days." :D
Eeek! Looks like I'll have to search around for those at other online vendors since I think I only bought "collector" copies of them.

There aren't any broken links for instructions on my site, are there?

[Ltvscout]

Carl,

Do you have a vendor list you could send me so I can more easily find who has those in stock still?

[Carl@Semroc]

Carl,

Do you have a vendor list you could send me so I can more easily find who has those in stock still?Uncle Mike and JonRocket are possibilities.

[Carl@Semroc]

There aren't any broken links for instructions on my site, are there?Jimz was down for a while.

[Initiator001]

Sorry to hear the 'cc' concept didn't work out, Carl.

For the record, what was/would have been KCC-2? :confused:

Bob

[rraeford]

Carl,

An idea ahead of its time – I guess.... Any chance you'll keep them listed so parts can be ordered all together to make a clone the way that some kits (e.g. Stiletto and Black Widow) are? Hope so.

I hate that for you guys. It seemed like a brilliant idea.

BTW, since the SST engine parts were made, is there any chance the Quasar USS America might make it to your retro-repro kit list?


Romie

[CPMcGraw]

After long deliberations, we have decided to discontinue all the CC: Kits. We are out of stock on the Space Plane and X-21 and do not plan on re-kitting the SST Shuttle as a cc: kit when they are gone... Several people said we should re-release them with "better parts" and Semroc written instructions...

Carl,

Does this mean you might consider releasing these again WITH instruction booklets at a future date? (Perhaps if someone actually sat down and wrote them up? Say, someone who's already opened his mouth about a couple other models recently? :o :D :rolleyes: )

[Carl@Semroc]

Sorry to hear the 'cc' concept didn't work out, Carl.

For the record, what was/would have been KCC-2? :confused:

BobIt was going to be the Coaster Centauri (another glider) but a promised set of plans were not forthcoming. When they were published on YORP, it was obvious that they would not be enough, even for a cc: kit. The Centauri will be released as KV-3 sometimes in the future. The 1/4" balsa wings are a problem right now with laser-cutting.

We still might do some cc: kits in the future, but only if the instructions are VERY clear. I think part of the problem was hobby stores selling cc: kits to non-computer savvy customers thinking it was a complete kit with easy to follow instructions included. I don't think we had complaints from our online customers.

We are still learning!

[Carl@Semroc]

Carl,

An idea ahead of its time – I guess.... Any chance you'll keep them listed so parts can be ordered all together to make a clone the way that some kits (e.g. Stiletto and Black Widow) are? Hope so.

I hate that for you guys. It seemed like a brilliant idea.

BTW, since the SST engine parts were made, is there any chance the Quasar USS America might make it to your retro-repro kit list?


RomieWe will keep the parts online. In fact, we are still expanding the available parts even if we are not doing the kits.

The PNC-165 nose cone for the Quasar and USS America is a stumbling block. The lack of a C5-3 is also a problem for the Super Kits.

[Carl@Semroc]

Carl,

Does this mean you might consider releasing these again WITH instruction booklets at a future date? (Perhaps if someone actually sat down and wrote them up? Say, someone who's already opened his mouth about a couple other models recently? :o :D :rolleyes: )Since Estes is not going to do it, we are thinking about K-1, K-2, and K-3 for next year, all with our instructions (along with the copies of the originals included since Vern said those three were never copyrighted.)

Are you volunteering???

[Ltvscout]

Uncle Mike and JonRocket are possibilities.
I just ordered a builder SST Shuttle from you along with the Mercury capsule. I'll get the other two from JonRocket.

It sounds like you may re-release the Space Plane as a full-fledged Semroc Retro Repro next year?

[Carl@Semroc]

I just ordered a builder SST Shuttle from you along with the Mercury capsule. I'll get the other two from JonRocket.

It sounds like you may re-release the Space Plane as a full-fledged Semroc Retro Repro next year?We are still trying to get real BT-30 tubes. Vern now thinks he got it and the engine mailing tubes from the same place as the engine tubes.

[Ltvscout]

We are still trying to get real BT-30 tubes. Vern now thinks he got it and the engine mailing tubes from the same place as the engine tubes.
When you say "real", do you mean parallel wound?

[Carl@Semroc]

When you say "real", do you mean parallel wound?Yeah!

But Gleda is not interested in winding the REAL real ones!

[Ltvscout]

Yeah!
Cool! That'll make 'em even more authentic.

But Gleda is not interested in winding the REAL real ones!
:D

[foose4string]

Luckily, those are three kits I've already purchased. :) The SST is the only one I haven't built yet. I can see how those kits could be problematic for some people, and ultimately would be(are) for Semroc. I don't mind scrounging up plans, or making small mods on my own, but have also cloned a few rockets on my own before discovering Semroc. The way I looked at it, if anyone is offering something in kit form, it is a real treat, whether it is sans instructions and has improvements or not. The fact it came from Semroc was even better...quality parts, good price, fast turn around, and good support. I think you should eventually bring back the Space Plane for sure, when time warrants. The SST is cool design too. The X-21, I wasn't too thrilled with, no hard feelings here if you ditch that one. I'd better double check and make sure I have the plans downloaded for the SST, I'm pretty sure I do.

I hope the Centauri turns out to be do-able. You know I have special plans for that one, Carl! :D

As far as the C5 Super Kits, that's a tough call, since some of us would mod for 24mm or fly on 18mm reload anyway. But, I can again see how that could be problematic for the average Joe. Guess you'll just have to start pumping out those C5's sooner than you thought! :D

[Royatl]

The PNC-165 nose cone for the Quasar and USS America is a stumbling block.

As with everything I ever got from Centuri, the Quasar got plastic cones AFTER I got my kit at NARAM 13. It had a balsa nose and a folded paper canopy. So that would be as authentic as your balsa coned Space Shuttle.

I did get a plastic Quasar cone a few months ago from CR2Sales, so if you need it or a photo of it for measurements, let me know.

[Royatl]

The lack of a C5-3 is also a problem for the Super Kits.

Were the Super Kits really that marginal on C6-3??

[CPMcGraw]

Since Estes is not going to do it, we are thinking about K-1, K-2, and K-3 for next year, all with our instructions (along with the copies of the originals included since Vern said those three were never copyrighted.)

Are you volunteering???

I'll start tonight.

"...Oh yeah, they call it the Streak... (boogety, boogety)...
...Fastest thing on three feet..."

The prototype won't even be primed...

It's gotta fly nekkid!

Addendum: And I just remembered... The K-1 was the SCOUT, not the STREAK. Doh!

[chanstevens]

There were just (3) CC kits being dropped, right? I think I bought a pair of each way back when, but even the spare "to build" wound up being a low number, so I'll now have to find some unnumbered to toss in the build queue. At this point though, even my build queue is starting to resemble a collection!

[Eagle3]

It's too bad this concept wasn't more popular. It would be interesting to know how many were sold and how many complaints came in. I know any complaints are too many, but I'm sure a lot were sold and built without problems. *raises hand*

I have to admit the X-21 plans are a royal PITA though... ;)

[Bob H]

It's too bad this concept wasn't more popular. It would be interesting to know how many were sold and how many complaints came in. I know any complaints are too many, but I'm sure a lot were sold and built without problems. *raises hand*

I have to admit the X-21 plans are a royal PITA though... ;)I liked the cc: kits. I have the X-21 but I haven't built it yet.

The other 2 came out real nice. The Space Plane went together real easy and I didn't bother to download the instructions since I still had the instructions from the Space Plane I got in 1967.

I flew it today on an OOP A5-2 motor and it put in a real good flight despite the windy day, landing about 15 - 20 ft from the trees. I may not have risked it if I thought I wouldn't be able to replace it.

[dwmzmm]

Carl, sorry to read you're discontinuing the cc: kits. I was going to order the SST Shuttle so
I can have a "fresh" replacement to my Centuri version I still have (yes, it still flies, but the
vacumform parts have become brittle over the years -- since 1970!). And maybe the Space
Plane, since that was my first boost glider back in 1969. I lost that model somehow and long
to get one back in my fleet. If you can keep a list of required parts for famous vintage model
rockets, that would be great for those (like myself) who can just go that route and download
the instructions and work from there.

Keep up the great work!

[Ltvscout]

Carl, sorry to read you're discontinuing the cc: kits. I was going to order the SST Shuttle so
I can have a "fresh" replacement to my Centuri version I still have (yes, it still flies, but the
vacumform parts have become brittle over the years -- since 1970!). And maybe the Space
Plane, since that was my first boost glider back in 1969. I lost that model somehow and long
to get one back in my fleet. If you can keep a list of required parts for famous vintage model
rockets, that would be great for those (like myself) who can just go that route and download
the instructions and work from there.

Keep up the great work!
Carl still has, or did as of Friday night, SST Shuttle's in stock. Use your SVDT discount.

You can get the other two from JonRocket as I did or Uncle Mike's Rocket Shack.

[ghrocketman]

I hope I can still order c CC:SST Shuttle from Semroc !
I have SST Shuttle production #8 but do not plan on building it.

[Ltvscout]

I hope I can still order c CC:SST Shuttle from Semroc !
I have SST Shuttle production #8 but do not plan on building it.
As of the time of my post they still have them available. ;) Don't delay, buy today! heh

John at JonRocket said he's seen a big run on the CC kits over there as well. Must just be from SVDT members because I don't believe Carl has made it public knowledge yet about the CC kits going OOP.

[CPMcGraw]

As of the time of my post they still have them available. ;) Don't delay, buy today! heh

John at JonRocket said he's seen a big run on the CC kits over there as well. Must just be from SVDT members because I don't believe Carl has made it public knowledge yet about the CC kits going OOP.

I just went to the LHS and picked up the SST they've had hanging since SEMROCs first started showing up there. Only reason I had not picked it up before was I had eyes for the Sat1B and a few others at the time...

Conflict resolved... :D

[Carl@Semroc]

I have moved this announcement and discussion to the mainstream forum. I intended to do it days ago after the SVDT had first notice.

[Ltvscout]

It appears JonRocket is now out of the X-21 and Space Plane now. That leaves just Uncle Mike's Rocket Shack and any LHS's that may still have them on the shelves. I should go checkout Greenfield News & Hobby to see what they may have.

[chanstevens]

I have moved this announcement and discussion to the mainstream forum. I intended to do it days ago after the SVDT had first notice.

Thanks for giving us first dibs. I have now transferred my original purchases of each to the very back of the build pile (if I break down and call it a collection, my wife will have an "I told you so"). I managed to pick up buildable copies just in time.

By the way--what sort of spyware have you slipped onto my computer? The announcement went late Friday, I ordered crack of dawn Saturday morning, and the package was sitting on my doorstep Monday! You must have slipped something on there that senses my interest and pre-packs in anticipation of the order. Jonrocket, no slouch on service, was probably still packing my order when yours arrived.

Don't you dare discontinue the Saturn, though. I was just commenting to the wife last night that I'm getting so good at building that one now, it's about time I built one for myself.

[ghrocketman]

I ordered another copy of the CC: SST ASAP from Semroc when I saw this thread !

[rraeford]

Carl,

You've most likely already thought of this but here's one suggestion for your website.

Would you consider listing the parts for any given design, say one you've decided not to actually kit - like the Estes V-2 or any of the now discont'd cc kits, and just make a button that will order all the necessary parts to build that model.

It would make ordering parts for a clone project a lot easier. Some designs have all parts available to build a clone but it's necessary to enter the whole list.

I realize that this means extra work and organization (doesn't everything?) but it would make the cc kit an online only concept.

It would eliminate the need to actually make a kit of the model.

It would also eliminate complaining customers because only people who wanted the bags of parts would ever order them.

No need for instructions or a package design. Just a list and a bag of parts.

Of course, I could just punch all the buttons and get the parts that way.

I'm basically a lazy person...does it show?

Romie

[dwmzmm]

Carl,

You've most likely already thought of this but here's one suggestion for your website.

Would you consider listing the parts for any given design, say one you've decided not to actually kit - like the Estes V-2 or any of the now discont'd cc kits, and just make a button that will order all the necessary parts to build that model.

It would make ordering parts for a clone project a lot easier. Some designs have all parts available to build a clone but it's necessary to enter the whole list.

I realize that this means extra work and organization (doesn't everything?) but it would make the cc kit an online only concept.

It would eliminate the need to actually make a kit of the model.

It would also eliminate complaining customers because only people who wanted the bags of parts would ever order them.

No need for instructions or a package design. Just a list and a bag of parts.

Of course, I could just punch all the buttons and get the parts that way.

I'm basically a lazy person...does it show?

Romie

I was under the impression that Carl/SEMROC was already doing something like this; when
my FSI Black Brant - II got severely damaged in flight back in June 2005, and I'd put a SOS
in one of these forums of my situation, Carl went to bat immediately and had a list of parts/
catalog numbers along with the prices. With those parts and extra quick service, I was
able to rebuild/repair the model and it looks as good as new.

[rraeford]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm just suggesting formalizing the ordering of the parts by offering a one-button order option on the site.


Romie

[Initiator001]

Since Estes is not going to do it, we are thinking about K-1, K-2, and K-3 for next year, all with our instructions (along with the copies of the originals included since Vern said those three were never copyrighted.)



Carl,

Would a K-1 clone include the gauze fabric to reinforce the fins?

Bob

[Carl@Semroc]

Carl,

Would a K-1 clone include the gauze fabric to reinforce the fins?

BobYes!
Still trying to figure out a way to stamp the pattern on them though.

Carl

[dwmzmm]

I would love to build another Astron Scout to replace my original I lost in January 2004 on
a C6-7 (at Rushing Park, Katy, TX)... :( Hope you can include the gauze fabric like the original
did; I thought then (1969) and still feel that that was really cool!!

[Mark II]

I'll start tonight.

"...Oh yeah, they call it the Streak... (boogety, boogety)...
...Fastest thing on three feet..."

The prototype won't even be primed...

It's gotta fly nekkid!

Addendum: And I just remembered... The K-1 was the SCOUT, not the STREAK. Doh!

Yeah, but if Semroc actually did release a Retro-Repro Astron Streak, with real Mylar BT-10's, I know of one rocketeer (and SVDT member) who would buy a dozen kits in a heartbeat.

And that would just be for the first order! :D

But yeah, I know, that's the sticking point - where do you find someone to make repro BT-10's? So just dream on, Mark, dream on... :(

Mark

P.S. BTW, was the BT-10 ever used in anything else, either in an actual numbered kit, an EIRP or a DOM design?

[Carl@Semroc]

Yeah, but if Semroc actually did release a Retro-Repro Astron Streak, with real Mylar BT-10's, I know of one rocketeer (and SVDT member) who would buy a dozen kits in a heartbeat.

And that would just be for the first order! :D

But yeah, I know, that's the sticking point - where do you find someone to make repro BT-10's? So just dream on, Mark, dream on... :(

Mark

P.S. BTW, was the BT-10 ever used in anything else, either in an actual numbered kit, an EIRP or a DOM design?Is the BT-10 spiral wound? Some references indicate that it was. I just can't remember. We ordered a batch of CPT-835 that was spiral wound mylar, but just put them aside because they were not as clear as the CAB tubes.

[Mark II]

Is the BT-10 spiral wound? Some references indicate that it was. I just can't remember. We ordered a batch of CPT-835 that was spiral wound mylar, but just put them aside because they were not as clear as the CAB tubes.
Carl,

The Mylar BT-10 in the vintage Streak kit that I have in my collection is spiral wound. It is also not crystal clear, but instead, has a translucent gel-like appearance. It would not be accurate to call it "milky" because there is really no white in it. It definitely does NOT resemble a payload tube - it has nothing like the transparency of the latter.

My kit's tube does not show any yellowing or other signs of oxidation or UV damage, so I am pretty sure that it retains its original appearance.

Give me a few minutes and I'll dig the kit out and post a picture.

Mark

[dwmzmm]

I recall my Astron Streak (purchased & built in 1969) had a clear mylar or plastic tube very
similar to the clear payload tubes Estes used those days. A paper with adhesive on one side
was carefully wrapped around the clear tubing so the fins and launch lug could be glued on.
I think two tape strips went inside the upper part so the nose cone can be glued. I remember thinking back then how cool the construction of the Astron Streak was compared
to the other "traditional" Astron series in the Estes lineup.

[Mark II]

Carl,

The Mylar BT-10 in the vintage Streak kit that I have in my collection is spiral wound. It is also not crystal clear, but instead, has a translucent gel-like appearance. It would not be accurate to call it "milky" because there is really no white in it. It definitely does NOT resemble a payload tube - it has nothing like the transparency of the latter.

My kit's tube does not show any yellowing or other signs of oxidation or UV damage, so I am pretty sure that it retains its original appearance.

Give me a few minutes and I'll dig the kit out and post a picture.

Mark
"Upon further review..."

OK, it looks like I was wrong :o about the cloudiness of the tube. The BT-10 in my unopened kit is quite clear, although not as crystal clear as a newly produced payload tube would be. It has a slightly grayish cast, which may or may not be due to age (unlike the condition of its owner, for whom the cause is less disputable ;) ). The accompanying unpackaged BT-10 is also fairly transparent, but is more cloudy, presumably from exposure and occasional handling by its previous owner over the past 40 years .

In the attached pictures, you can just make out the tube spirals on the kit's BT-10 in the 3rd and 4th photo. The spirals are much more obvious in the close-ups of the unpackaged BT-10 in the 5th and 6th pictures.

Hope this helps.

Mark

[dwmzmm]

Wow!! Thanks for posting those pictures of the Astron Streak kit! That's the one I got in 1969. Forgotten that those kits came with the inspection slip that sort of served as a
"warranty" guarantee. I can remember the great, personal customer service I got back in
those days by Estes & Centuri.....

BTW, can't remember what happened to my Astron Streak model; maybe it got lost either in
flight or during a move :( . I definitely will have to take a look at building a clone of the
Astron Streak; I got the parts to build a clone of the Astron Scout (which I lost my vintage
kit in January 2004, just as I became a BAR)....

[Royatl]

Is the BT-10 spiral wound? Some references indicate that it was. I just can't remember. We ordered a batch of CPT-835 that was spiral wound mylar, but just put them aside because they were not as clear as the CAB tubes.

It was spiral wound. I just got a 9" length of it, which apparently came from a 25 year old Designers Special. They also used it as replacement for clear BT20 in some kits, probably in a s.p.e.v. function. The interesting thing I got from a recent acquisition is an old Scrambler with a spiral mylar PST-65! Most of the recent stash I received came from '75-'83

[CPMcGraw]

...We ordered a batch of CPT-835 that was spiral wound mylar, but just put them aside because they were not as clear as the CAB tubes...

Carl,

I used one of these when I built my Loadmaster prototype, and I'm not unhappy about the way it turned out. Those spirals are not 'that' detracting. If anything, they feel a bit more rugged than the standard extruded plastic tubes; those always felt a bit flimsy and fragile.

Maybe you should try out a batch of these in ST-10 diameter. If they're less expensive than the standard tubes, and easier to obtain (they'd use the same mandrels as the paper tubes, right?), then this might be a viable option for those other projects we're wanting to see...

[Ltvscout]

Is the BT-10 spiral wound? Some references indicate that it was. I just can't remember. We ordered a batch of CPT-835 that was spiral wound mylar, but just put them aside because they were not as clear as the CAB tubes.
Carl,

It is spiral wound. Talk to Kurt Schachner here via PM or email. He already has done the legwork to have spiral wound mylar BT-10 (Streak) and PST-65 (Scrambler) tubes made by the same company that Estes used. I'm confident he'd pass the info on to you if those are two tubes you'd be interested in carrying.

[merlyn]

The BT-10 was spiral wound and a bit opaque or hazy, not clear.

[Carl@Semroc]

Thanks for all the replies. Next question is how is it constructed? Launch lugs are glassine/mylar/glassine, meaning the mylar has a wrap of glassine on both sides. The HR-20 rings I have are mylar with glassine on the outside only.

The BT-10 would be a great addition, but $200 for a box of tubes to make a few Streaks ...

[Ltvscout]

Thanks for all the replies. Next question is how is it constructed? Launch lugs are glassine/mylar/glassine, meaning the mylar has a wrap of glassine on both sides. The HR-20 rings I have are mylar with glassine on the outside only.
I'd be more interested in the Scrambler payload myself. Anywho, Mark II could probably answer the question on the tube since he has an open Streak kit. All of mine are sealed. Kurt could probably answer the question on the construction of the Scrambler payload section. I know he has a built one at home. I do as well, but it's literally buried in this mess of a basement.

[Carl@Semroc]

I'd be more interested in the Scrambler payload myself. Anywho, Mark II could probably answer the question on the tube since he has an open Streak kit. All of mine are sealed. Kurt could probably answer the question on the construction of the Scrambler payload section. I know he has a built one at home. I do as well, but it's literally buried in this mess of a basement.The Scrambler is an even tougher choice. The 1.75" ID is too small for eggs used by TARC since they can be up to 45mm (1.77"). I don't know why Estes chose that size. We are seriously considering getting thick mylar tubes in either ST-18 or ST-20 series, which would work for TARC. Centuri's Egg Crate used the 2.0" which is a much better size for eggs. But on the other hand, the Scrambler was a cool kit even if large eggs would not fit!

[Mark II]

I'd be more interested in the Scrambler payload myself. Anywho, Mark II could probably answer the question on the tube since he has an open Streak kit. All of mine are sealed. Kurt could probably answer the question on the construction of the Scrambler payload section. I know he has a built one at home. I do as well, but it's literally buried in this mess of a basement.
A-hem! My Streak kit is sealed. The solo BT-10 in some of the pictures I posted was an extra tube that I have. :p :D

Anyway, Carl, is your question about how to get the other components to stick to the Mylar tube? If so, then I think that one could use a product that wasn't around back in the mid-'60's - slow set/maxi-cure CA (with a shot of accelerator). Or is the question about how to make the tube hold up to the heat from the ejection charge if it just has uncoated Mylar on the interior surface? For that, I would suggest putting a coating of talcum powder on the inside of the tube before each flight. Not only would the coating itself form a thin, temporary flame barrier, but, perhaps more importantly, it would help to insure that the motor promptly ejected from the tube during recovery and did not stick in it long enough to burn a hole.

At least, those are solutions that I think would work. I could put those techniques to the test if I had a couple tubes to do trials with. ;)

How do you justify spending $200 for a box of Mylar tubes for a few Retro-Repro Streak kits? What, you think $29.95 per kit is too much to charge? :eek: ;) And you wouldn't have to use up the whole box of tubes for kits; after all, you would want to keep some around for the parts catalog. :D

Well, OK - so maybe we won't see Mylar BT-10's coming back anytime soon. Last year, on another forum, I did discuss an idea that I had for rolling your own BT-10's using sheet Mylar from an art supply store and some adhesive spray.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OldRockets/message/32839

It's still just an idea; I haven't tried it out in the real world - yet. ;)

Mark

P.S. Now, on to designing the SLS Streak... I'm thinking MPR/HPR, like the SLS Arcas. You? [LOL]

[dwmzmm]

A-hem! My Streak kit is sealed. The solo BT-10 in some of the pictures I posted was an extra tube that I have. :p :D

Anyway, Carl, is your question about how to get the other components to stick to the Mylar tube? If so, then I think that one could use a product that wasn't around back in the mid-'60's - slow set/maxi-cure CA (with a shot of accelerator). Or is the question about how to make the tube hold up to the heat from the ejection charge if it just has uncoated Mylar on the interior surface? For that, I would suggest putting a coating of talcum powder on the inside of the tube before each flight. Not only would the coating itself form a thin, temporary flame barrier, but, perhaps more importantly, it would help to insure that the motor promptly ejected from the tube during recovery and did not stick in it long enough to burn a hole.

At least, those are solutions that I think would work. I could put those techniques to the test if I had a couple tubes to do trials with. ;)

How do you justify spending $200 for a box of Mylar tubes for a few Retro-Repro Streak kits? What, you think $29.95 per kit is too much to charge? :eek: ;) And you wouldn't have to use up the whole box of tubes for kits; after all, you would want to keep some around for the parts catalog. :D

Well, OK - so maybe we won't see Mylar BT-10's coming back anytime soon. Last year, on another forum, I did discuss an idea that I had for rolling your own BT-10's using sheet Mylar from an art supply store and some adhesive spray.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OldRockets/message/32839

It's still just an idea; I haven't tried it out in the real world - yet. ;)

Mark

P.S. Now, on to designing the SLS Streak... I'm thinking MPR/HPR, like the SLS Arcas. You? [LOL]

Estes use to have the Maxi-Streak, which was a cool model in its own right. I loved mine,
until I lost it at JSC back in 2004 .

[ghrocketman]

The Astron Scrambler is my all-time favorite non-scale Estes kit....would like to see readily available clones of it even though I have one clone and two originals.