Ye Olde Rocket Forum - Scrounged-Up Designs 2007

CPMcGraw

01-01-2007, 07:09 PM

I just created a new simulation file of the Andromeda, with the addition of two CR-713 centering rings mounted at the openings of the shrouds. This will block off the flow of air through the shrouds and prevent them from acting as ringfins. The first indication that this may be important is the altitude gained: 910' versus 881' over the non-plugged non-ringfin simulation. The second indication that something changed was the stability margin; when using a C6-5 the margin dropped to 0.74. A ballast weight of 0.10 oz was added to the back of the nose cone, and the margin came back up to 1.13.

The fins were altered to allow the shrouds to fit better, and a slot was drawn in to allow for the two centering rings. A corresponding interlocking slot needs to be cut into both rings.

I'll work up the latest patterns and post them later tonight, or tomorrow.

James Pierson

01-01-2007, 09:09 PM

Craig said,
I just created a new simulation file of the Andromeda, with the addition of two CR-713 centering rings mounted at the openings of the shrouds. This will block off the flow of air through the shrouds and prevent them from acting as ringfins. The first indication that this may be important is the altitude gained: 910' versus 881' over the non-plugged non-ringfin simulation. The second indication that something changed was the stability margin; when using a C6-5 the margin dropped to 0.74. A ballast weight of 0.10 oz was added to the back of the nose cone, and the margin came back up to 1.13.

This leads me to suspect that just maybe Rocksim is not accounting for airflow through both the Ringfins and Tubefins. I wonder?? :confused: It may be the extra wieght of the added CR-713 that accounts for the altitude change.

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

CPMcGraw

01-01-2007, 11:03 PM

Here's the latest incarnation of the Andromeda, incorporating the changes I mentioned in the earlier post. I'll try to get the outlines of the modified centering rings posted sometime tomorrow.

CPMcGraw

01-01-2007, 11:08 PM

Here's the latest incarnation of the Andromeda, incorporating the changes I mentioned in the earlier post. I'll try to get the outlines of the modified centering rings posted sometime tomorrow.

Length: 23.95"
Diameter: 1.04" (BC-760) [Shrouds ST-16]
Fin Span: 5.799"
Weight: 1.9112 oz

CP = 14.8467" from nose tip

A8-3......138'......Dv 18 FPS......Requires 40" of guide length
B4-4......374'......Dv 3 FPS.......Requires 36" of guide length
B6-4......384'......Dv 4 FPS.......Requires 36" of guide length
C6-5......908'......Dv 16 FPS......Requires 36" of guide length

Enjoy!

CPMcGraw

01-01-2007, 11:10 PM

Sorry for the almost-duplication. Computer-related glitch... :o

A Fish Named Wallyum

01-01-2007, 11:36 PM

Sorry for the almost-duplication. Computer-related glitch... :o

When I read this, the first thing that popped into my mind was
"There's a town I know where the hipsters go called BEDROCK, glitch, glitch."
Must be the anti-biotics.... :rolleyes:

CPMcGraw

01-01-2007, 11:56 PM

When I read this, the first thing that popped into my mind was
"There's a town I know where the hipsters go called BEDROCK, glitch, glitch."
Must be the anti-biotics.... :rolleyes:

Wowsy, wowsy, woo, woo...

"And I can't get it outta my head..."

James Pierson

01-02-2007, 10:15 PM

Kicking the "PhotoBucket" This is going to take me a while so please reamin calm and stay in your seats please, JP

Here are the mini Jets I have built as far #1- #5 I think.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/MiniJets1-2-2007.jpg

And here is the Neptune Lander.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/NeptuneLander.jpg

Here is the real version of the Static Probe with the three PNC's
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/StaticProbe11-2-2007.jpg

Here is the Sabre Dart.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/SabreDart1-2-2007.jpg

How about the Master Blaster as well.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/MasterBlaster1-2-2007.jpg

A naked Cosmic Poo :eek: .http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/CosmicPoo1-2-2007-1.jpg

Here is my first serious attempt at scratch building. I call it he Old Ranger.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/OldRanger1-2-2007.jpg

Hope you all enjoy these, JP

James Pierson
NAR#77907

Tau Zero

01-02-2007, 10:41 PM

This is going to take me a while so please [remain] calm and stay in your seats pleaseJames,

*Nicely* done on all of those models. I have to confess, sometimes I see the new stuff that you come up with, and I think, "Where does he *get* these ideas?!?" :eek:

Then I have to console myself with the thought, "At least my Tau Zero will have cool decals." :p :D ;)

Cheers, buddy,

CPMcGraw

01-02-2007, 10:47 PM

Nice images, James. I need to match your gallery with some shots of my Barclone fleet. I've been wanting to get some "actual photos" of the models posted on the website for a long time, as opposed to just the RockSim rendered images.

It will help folks who are downloading the plans to see what the actual model looks like, and how large it really is.

James Pierson

01-02-2007, 11:06 PM

Thanks guys, I am glad you like the photo's. I ran out of room on the last post some here are the remaining photo's.

Here is my version of a true space missile. I call it the A.S.M. short for Anti-Spacecraft Missile. Rocksim simulation need some more work before posting.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/A.jpg

Here is a close up of the Old Ranger. 7 McDonald's straws fit good into a Bt-20 tube. :D
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/OldRangerClose-up1-2-2007.jpg

And finally is a unloaded Six shooter.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/SixShooterEmpty.jpg

Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

tbzep

01-03-2007, 06:50 PM

Neat rockets, James! You might think about getting some Microscale or Bel decal paper and make some simple decals. If you don't have the patience to draw any, you can download the ones on JimZ's or other sites then copy & paste windows, hatches, cockpits, and other stuff that would fit with the theme of the rockets. It wouldn't take much at all to take really cool looking designs and make them even more outstanding. :)

CPMcGraw

01-04-2007, 04:42 PM

Schoolyard Sounders.

These are two-stage designs for 13mm motors. The design is inspired by the old Estes Farside and Estes Delta models; they are not simple reductions of those designs. Both of these models will provide reasonably good small-field action, gaining less than 700'.

Whippit:

Length: 22.45"
Diameter: 0.908" (ST-8)
Fin Span: 4.41"
Weight: 1.38 oz

A10-0T / 1/2A3-4T......446'......Dv 6 FPS
A10-0T / A3-4T.........695'......Dv 27 FPS

Whippit-X:

Length: 20.75"
Diameter: 1.04 (ST-10)
Fin Span: 4.41"
Weight: 1.41 oz

A10-0T / 1/2A3-4T......437'......Dv 6 FPS
A10-0T / A3-4T.........683'......Dv 25 FPS

All motor combinations reach safe flight velocity on a standard launch rod.

Enjoy!

barone

01-04-2007, 08:10 PM

Great designs Craig. So what's the scoop? A10-0Ts coming back? I've got a Seattle Rocket Works Mirv Gryphon that's waiting to be put together..... ;)

A Fish Named Wallyum

01-04-2007, 09:20 PM

Great designs Craig. So what's the scoop? A10-0Ts coming back? I've got a Seattle Rocket Works Mirv Gryphon that's waiting to be put together..... ;)

I don't think that's in the works, but A10-0T's are still in fairly plentiful supply. There are several on-line vendors who stock them and the prices aren't too bad.

CPMcGraw

01-05-2007, 02:42 PM

I don't think that's in the works, but A10-0T's are still in fairly plentiful supply. There are several on-line vendors who stock them and the prices aren't too bad.

And I did mention some time back that I had several of these "what if" ideas for the Schoolyard Sounders series in the works. I sometimes enjoy seeing what would be possible "if only..." :rolleyes:

CPMcGraw

01-05-2007, 02:58 PM

With all of the talk about the Orion of late, I thought I might whip up a quick RockSim file on this model, using SEMROC balsa components instead of the original plastic ones from Centuri. What came out was a mixed bag performance-wise. The only safe motor right now to use in this model is the Quest C6Q-5, which allows safe flight velocity in 45", thus requiring a 48" x 3/16" launch rod. The Estes C6-5 takes a whopping 63". When I used the Apogee D10-7, I finally got a set of numbers that fall into safe categories. The model requires only 26" of launch guidance, and deploys at a much milder 23 FPS. The altitude is better at just over 1200'.

What I will probably do is revise this plan for 24mm motors and see what I can get closer to safe launch and deploy numbers.

Length: 22.65"
Diameter: 2.04" (ST-20)
Fin Span: 7.34" (Uses same fin sheet as Taurus)
Weight: 3.6 oz

Ponder!

Bob Thomas

01-05-2007, 04:37 PM

Oh Boy, I wish I had rocksim. I hope you will post the results. I'll find a launch date to give you my stats as soon as the paint dries.

And using SEMROC parts, could you figure in the added weight of the six balsa 710 cones, an "E" size mount (2 CR-920 with a HTC-20 1.75 coupler) a ST9-16 x1.75 CA coated bell shroud and one of those 1 inch? 24mm "E" to "D" engine tube adapters. I used 3/32 balsa with paper laminate copied from the Taurus fin set, a single ST-20 tube length so no coupler six inches from BC-2032 cone - an EB 20 baffle instead. Corrugated cardboard resined wrap comes in at 1.4 times the weight of same size standard wall st-20 tubing. (I weighed a mock up, mine was already attached.)

Never mind, I'll just give it a swing and a launch!!!

Oh no, I just gave away my parts list! LoL

Bob

CPMcGraw

01-05-2007, 06:13 PM

Here's the 24mm version of the Orion. The changes include a 4" length of ST-9 and a shifting of the first centering ring 1" forward. A longer engine hook and thrust ring round out the mods.

Length: 22.65"
Diameter: 2.04" (ST-20)
Fin Span: 7.34"
Weight: 3.68 oz

D12-5........997'......Dv 32 FPS......36" x 3/16" rod
E9-6........1622'......Dv 26 FPS......48" x 3/16" rod
E15-7.......2305'......Dv 16 FPS......36" x 3/16" rod
F21W-8......2855'......Dv 7 FPS.......36" x 3/16" rod

As you can see, the larger motors are much better suited for this model.

Enjoy!

CPMcGraw

01-05-2007, 06:25 PM

...using SEMROC parts, could you figure in the added weight of the six balsa 710 cones...

The simulations here use a balsa bulkhead to represent the weight and drag of those nosecones. RockSim just doesn't allow me to put a nose cone anywhere except the very front of the rocket. It also doesn't allow a transition anywhere except the centerline of the rocket, meaning I can't even use that component to simulate a NC. It does allow those bulkheads, go figure...

For the rest of the components, I've used pretty much what you've described. The wrap is probably not to the exact weight, but it's going to be close. Keep in mind, since the original Orion used cut-down Saturn wraps, a SEMROC kit can simply borrow from the S1B kit and be "keeping in spirit", if not spot-on, with that original Centuri kit.

Bob Thomas

01-05-2007, 09:38 PM

I was hoping to get her up to 1500 with D power, but had no Idea about an E. These seem a likely possibility. Thanks

snaquin

01-07-2007, 05:23 PM

CPMcGraw

01-08-2007, 06:54 PM

James Pierson

01-13-2007, 08:25 PM

Great job with all the new designs Craig. Looks like my build pile just got a little bigger :rolleyes: .

Here is a design I call the Interstellar Traveler. I was going for a vintage look again, so I hope you all like it. Lately I seem to be in a design rut or you might call it a design block or information overload. All three of my personalities can't figure out which :D .

Here are the flight specs:

Interstellar Traveler
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR----MAX. ALTITUDE----DEP. VELOCITY
B4-4 --------272.04549 Ft-------20.4662 ft/s
B6-4 --------281.21422 Ft-------15.8254 ft/s
C6-5 --------729.72207 Ft-------0.5625 ft/s

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

CPMcGraw

01-14-2007, 04:24 PM

Here's an updated set of fin patterns, including the slots for the shrouds and two centering rings. The rings close off the passage of air through the shrouds, effectively turning them back into simple tubes, and not allow them to act as ringfins.

John Brohm

01-14-2007, 08:20 PM

CPMcGraw

01-14-2007, 08:52 PM

Hey Craig - it's looking good. I'm looking forward to building this one.

I'm hoping the second prototype comes out lighter than the first one. Somehow the weight built up in the construction, and killed any chance it had of flying correctly. It took a full quarter ounce of lead to bring the CG/CP margin into the safe zone, on top of that.

If the second prototype balances where RockSim says it should (and I have my doubts even now), the flight performance should be quite good on a "B". I think RockSim is calculating the weight of the nose cone heavier than Carl's BC-760 actually is, and it's throwing the margin out of whack. I need a digital scale that can resolve finer points than a typical postal scale.

ADDENDUM: THAT'S ONE PROBLEM! RockSim is recording the weight of the nose cone as being 0.2258 oz, while the SEMROC website is saying the nose cone only weighs 0.09 oz. That's roughly 2.5X what it should weigh. What this means is, RockSim is over-estimating the typical weight of bulk balsa. I will go into the file and re-compute the design based on the website weight, and report on the results shortly.

CPMcGraw

01-14-2007, 09:43 PM

I was right in thinking the CG would be adversely affected by the change in weight. Look at these numbers:

OLD:

Weight: 1.9115 oz
CG: 14.845" from tip of nose cone
CP: 18.5037" from tip of nose cone
Margin: 3.52

NEW:

Weight: 1.7757 oz
CG: 15.6683" from tip of nose cone
CP: 18.5037" from tip of nose cone
Margin: 2.73

Just in this change in the weight of the nose cone, the CG was pushed backwards nearly 7/8".

Now, interestingly enough, it suggests that I might still be able to launch Prototype #1 and achieve something near the original projected altitude. I just need to compensate with some ballast, and plug those shrouds. The school where I fly will be out tomorrow for MLK day, but we're expecting rain and colder temps by evening. It may be a crap shoot, but I'm going to try and get in a couple of flights with it if possible.

CPMcGraw

01-14-2007, 10:24 PM

Here is the Andromeda Mk. V, with some corrections. The model has been lengthened with the addition of a 4" piece of ST-7. This shifts the CG far enough forward that it has the correct margin for a C6-5 motor. The final weight is still below the original weight computed by RockSim.

Length: 27.95"
Diameter: 1.64" (ST-16 shrouds)
Fin Span: 5.799"
Weight: 1.8053 oz
CG: 18.6329"
CP: 22.4176"

A8-3......147'......Dv 15 FPS......34"
B4-4......388'......Dv 3 FPS.......27"
B6-4......398'......Dv 5 FPS.......30"
C6-5......910'......Dv 14 FPS......28"

All motors reach flight velocity on a standard launch rod.

Enjoy!

CPMcGraw

01-17-2007, 05:32 PM

The Andromeda has been a work-in-progress for some time, now, and I hope you don't mind the constant revisions. Discovering the issue with the ring fins and simple inside tubes didn't help, but at least I have a better understanding of what to expect in future designs with this detail. Now, as I look more at the last-posted version (Mk V.2) I see the need to "dress it up" just a bit. So with that, I give this additional caveat: These details add visually to the design, but they also kill about 150' off the top altitude with the C6. I don't think it's the weight as much as it is the negative stability this detail works against the static margin when applied to the forward shroud, and what I had to do on the rear shroud to compensate. Visually, these details make sense...

Length: 27.95"
Diameter: 1.64" (ST-16 shrouds)
Fin Span: 5.799"
Weight: 2.022 oz

CG: 19.5362" [empty location]
CP: 22.8574"

B4-4......316'......Dv 16 FPS
B6-4......324'......Dv 12 FPS
C6-5......756'......Dv 7 FPS

All motors in this list reach flight velocity on a standard launch rod. The A8-3 had poor overall performance and required a longer rod, so it was dropped.

Enjoy!

Addendum: As with all the other issues in RockSim, I think this detail issue is over-calculated by the program. These shroud details should never have caused as much instability as shown. The problem is these items had to be created as FINS, and not as raised surface items, which probably would not affect the flow of air to the same degree. I am sure, with more research into the program, I can compensate for the extreme effects. I really need to pull out those older "Peak Of Flight" newsletters and rummage through them for anything on fins...

CPMcGraw

01-26-2007, 09:54 PM

I don't remember if this model name was requested by anyone (Jay?), but it just came to my mind today and I noticed I didn't have one already in the line-up...

Here's something just familiar enough to be called a sibling to the Andromeda, but not exactly the same to be just a copy. This is also another (in)famous Cracker Barrel sketch come to life. It's a "Chicken & Eggs, smothered in white gravy" design. (There's a scarry bit of unrequested extra information for ya!)

Length: 22.44"
Diameter: 1.64" (ST-16 shrouds)
Fin Span: 3.76"
Weight: 1.52 oz

A8-3......180'......Dv 7 FPS
B4-4......443'......Dv 6 FPS
B6-4......451'......Dv 10 FPS
C6-5......976'......Dv 12 FPS

All motors reach flight velocity on a standard launch rod.

Enjoy!

Tau Zero

01-26-2007, 10:08 PM

I don't remember if this model name was requested by anyone (Jay?), but it just came to my mind today and I noticed I didn't have one already in the line-up...Nope. I'm *so* into "Aurora," though... :eek: :rolleyes: ;) :D

Okay, for extra credit (Bill?), identify the "fabulous" 80's song this quote is from:

"Aurora comes in view..."

(--That means she shows up. *Not* the alternate meaning. :eek: :o )

Chuckling,

barone

01-26-2007, 10:19 PM

Nope. I'm *so* into "Aurora," though... :eek: :rolleyes: ;) :D

Okay, for extra credit (Bill?), identify the "fabulous" 80's song this quote is from:

"Aurora comes in view..."

(--That means she shows up. *Not* the alternate meaning. :eek: :o )

Chuckling,

A Flock of Seagulls.......the group.....oh, but you wanted the song........I ran........

Tau Zero

01-26-2007, 10:29 PM

A Flock of Seagulls.......the group.....oh, but you wanted the song........I ran........(Announcer's voice) "Ladies and gentlemen, Don Barone takes home ALL THE CANDY!" :D :cool: ;)

Thanks for playing. :D

Cheers,

EchoVictor

01-27-2007, 08:47 AM

AFOS reference! Niiiiiiice.

<WARNING - GEEK ALERT>

What's really scary is that I have a picture of me on stage singing with Mike Score (lead singer) at the end of a Seagulls concert from the 80's...

Later,
EV

Ltvscout

01-27-2007, 09:30 AM

EchoVictor

01-27-2007, 03:08 PM

Thank God, no.

What most don't know is Mike's "tailfin" hair-do was probably the world's most elaborate comb-over. By the time the concert I was at (later 80's, after their prime), he'd mostly lost it all on top and had the "bald-mullet" .

Later,
EV

CPMcGraw

02-09-2007, 03:28 PM

It's been a slow January and February around here...

This design is another in the (in)famous TAU series, and draws some influence (OK, maybe more than just "some"...) from the Andromeda. It is a simplified model, but it retains the family styling with the reactor shroud and coils, the open fins, and the stylish nose cone.

Tau Cygnus also fits into the VR Class with its under-800' altitude on a C6-5.

Length: 23.95"
Diameter: 1.64" (ST-16 reactor shroud)
Fin Span: 6.04"
Weight: 2 oz

B4-4......330'......Dv 13 FPS
B6-4......340'......Dv 8 FPS
C6-5......787'......Dv 7 FPS

The A8-3 is not recommended as it does not reach safe flight velocity on a standard rod, and only attains about 125' at best. All other motors listed reach flight velocity in the length of a standard rod.

Enjoy!

Mark+3

02-18-2007, 03:54 AM

snaquin

02-18-2007, 07:11 AM

OK folks this one has me stumped. Flight simulation says it won't leave the rod and 2D profile shows it starting parallel to the ground (launch rod @ 0 degrees). Did I miss something? Software problems? Any help would be appreciated.

Look at the fin thickness of the rocket image when you prepare for launch to load a motor or view the line diagram in the 2D base view of the design.

It's your fins. I'm assuming that you wanted 0.09380 instead of your 0.9380 for the thickness of the fin material since these fins are almost an inch thick? You also selected "custom" for the fin material and that has a "zero" mass for the fins. Instead choose balsa or one of the other materials.

I changed the design to balsa and 0.09380 for the fin thickness and it flys fine.

The 3D export did look kinda cool ..... :)

.

CPMcGraw

02-18-2007, 02:13 PM

Everyone,

The first of several updates to the BARCLONE website have now been posted and those plans are available for download. It has taken longer to do this than was originally planned, but shortly we hope to have all of the 2006-Series plans up and visible. One of our goals was to reach 300 plans before December, and I think we accomplished that before September. The new goal is to reach 500 plans before the end of 2007; if we have the same degree of contributions that we had in 2006, we should reach this goal just as easily.

Thanks to all who participated!

Mark+3

02-18-2007, 03:47 PM

Look at the fin thickness of the rocket image when you prepare for launch to load a motor or view the line diagram in the 2D base view of the design.

It's your fins. I'm assuming that you wanted 0.09380 instead of your 0.9380 for the thickness of the fin material since these fins are almost an inch thick? You also selected "custom" for the fin material and that has a "zero" mass for the fins. Instead choose balsa or one of the other materials.

I changed the design to balsa and 0.09380 for the fin thickness and it flys fine.

The 3D export did look kinda cool ..... :)

.
Doh! Thanks

James Pierson

02-18-2007, 08:42 PM

CPMcGraw Everyone,

The first of several updates to the BARCLONE website have now been posted and those plans are available for download. It has taken longer to do this than was originally planned, but shortly we hope to have all of the 2006-Series plans up and visible. One of our goals was to reach 300 plans before December, and I think we accomplished that before September. The new goal is to reach 500 plans before the end of 2007; if we have the same degree of contributions that we had in 2006, we should reach this goal just as easily.

Thanks to all who participated!

Thanks for all your hard work Craig and Scott. The Barclone site is looking great :D .

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

James Pierson

02-19-2007, 07:54 PM

Had to take a trip back in time on this thread to see when I last posted a Mini Jet and what # it was :o . Finally here are the last of the Mini Jets, #13, #14, and #15. Looking back at the download number on these designs Mini-Jet #4 seems to be the favorite so far.

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

Tau Zero

02-19-2007, 10:32 PM

Doh! ThanksMark+3,

I've done it myself before. This Centuri Vector-V attempt was from a couple of years ago:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=16796&postcount=6

Notice that even the "vanes" are chunky! :rolleyes: :o ;) :D

Cheers,

James Pierson

02-20-2007, 06:19 PM

Mark+3
OK folks this one has me stumped. Flight simulation says it won't leave the rod and 2D profile shows it starting parallel to the ground (launch rod @ 0 degrees). Did I miss something? Software problems? Any help would be appreciated.

A person has to really watch rocksim on a few things it wants to do automatically. When doing paper transitions in rocksim be sure to make them hallow and not solid. I also use the paper thickness of .0110 for Carl's cardstock material. Craig and I have also come to believe that Rocksim allows too much drag for ringtail and tube fins as well :confused: .

Hope this helps, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

CPMcGraw

02-22-2007, 09:22 PM

Folks,

I'd been saying we punched through 300 models back around September, but that I really didn't know just how many we had. Now that we're seeing the bulk of these designs heading into the wild, I had an opportunity to take an inventory of all the designs I show in the "PROVEN" category. I will post a text file attachment for everyone to look through at the bottom of this message. This may not be a complete listing yet, as there may be a few designs posted recently to this thread which are not accounted for. I thought I'd share this list with everyone to look through, as I want everyone who has posted a design to know that your design is still going to make it to the website.

The count of designs on this list is 387...

Important notes:

1. The Tau Zero is listed, but is not currently scheduled for posting to the website.

2. There is a double entry for the 1974 Parts Demo. The number above reflects these changes.

3. Several folders have multiple models grouped together. The number above does NOT reflect that discrepancy.

James Pierson

03-04-2007, 06:12 PM

This 18mm design was inspired by another one of those shows on the Science Channel :p . I call it the Ion Explorer and its "different" to say the least.
Weather seems to be somewhat improving around here or maybe its the cabin fever giving me the false hope of an early spring ;) .

Thanks Again and Enjoy, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

James Pierson

03-25-2007, 07:22 PM

Whoa, I just saw this thread slipping down into the shadowy abiss an realized I how long its been since a new design was posted. Well call me slacker no more :D , because here is a new design I call the NX Proto for the lack of a better name. This on falls into the VR class of designs and flies well on 18mm motors from A8-3 to C6-5.

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

barone

03-25-2007, 09:04 PM

CPMcGraw

03-31-2007, 06:40 PM

James' comments have made me give some attention to my own design efforts. It has been some time since I introduced anything new, so I guess it's time to address that deficiency...

This design takes a 24mm C11-5, and a C6-5 using an adapter. The C6 gives better performance. There are configuration similarities to the earlier CSL Murray.

Length: 35.10"
Diameter: 1.34" (ST-13)
Fin Span: 3.43"
Weight: 2.1 oz

C11-5......711'......Dv 19 FPS......31"
C6-5.......796'......Dv 11 FPS......31"

Enjoy!

handeman

03-31-2007, 11:12 PM

You guys really need to stop with all the cool new designs, or I need to stop looking at them. I've got enough ideas floating around in my head to keep me busy for the next six months.
Of course I'll never get those all done because ya all give me more ideas in the mean time :D

CPMcGraw

04-22-2007, 11:39 AM

Here's the updated plan for the Antares, based on Saturday's flight test. The updated construction uses the 6.5" BT-20D as the motor tube, and four support rings, to form an inner core. Applying glue to the two interior rings can be difficult at best, but if you use a straight pin (or a "T" pin) and pierce the BT-50 only where these two rings intersect the fin lines, you can flow some thinned yellow glue through the holes and "blind rivet" the rings in place. CA would work, too, but you need to keep excess CA from interfering with the fin root glue joint.

Length: 23.75"
Diameter: 0.976" (BT-50) main body tube; 1.325" (BT-55) reactor shroud
Fin Span: 8.08"
Weight: 2.38 oz

Recommended motor results:

B6-4......282'......Dv 17 FPS
C6-5......706'......Dv 7 FPS

The A8-3 and B4-4 (the two motors I chose to fly with :o ) are not advised for general flying, as their Dv's are above my suggested 20 FPS upper limit.

Even with the weight of a C6-5 added, the stability margin is 2.73. No wonder the first prototype flew so well!

Enjoy!

CPMcGraw

04-22-2007, 08:42 PM

These alterations are based on the performance of the Mk I prototype yesterday. It flew well, but not to my satisfaction. Granted, it was a much heavier model than I thought it should be, and thus the stability margin was closer to the low end of the scale. Interestingly, the model did not need any of the small finlets around the base of the second shroud currently shown in the 3D images.

This version lengthens the model by 1.3", by using an ST-753 motor section instead of the ST-740 previously added. The model now has DV's for my selected motors that are close to ideal.

I've kept the small finlets in this revision for appearances, but RockSim says they do add a measure of stability to the overall total. Granted, we're finding out that RockSim isn't always correct in its assessments and assertions...

Length: 29.25"
Diameter: 1.04" (BC-760); 1.34" (ST-13)
Fin Span: 5.86"
Weight: 2.08 oz

A8-3......142'......Dv 10 FPS
B4-4......383'......Dv 13 FPS
B6-4......392'......Dv 3 FPS

Note the C6-5 is not listed. This motor does not achieve safe flight speed until 44" up the rod. All of the motors listed here achieve flight speed in less than 36".

Enjoy!

CPMcGraw

04-29-2007, 08:51 PM

So, I'm wanting to do something a bit more SciFi and Fantasy, and I'm holding in the back of my brain those interesting Sunward / Canaroc designs. I want something similar, but not exact, and which can be built from available Semroc components if possible. The Lirpa matches that set of requirements, needing only one set of custom centering rings.

The drawings from RockSim are, once again, showing the highly irritating limitations imposed by the program. The long bulkheads in the offset tube and in the pods are supposed to be nose cones.

The parachute goes in the large chin-mounted ST-10. A gas passage is required between the ST-10 and the ST-8. A baffle can be mounted in the ST-10, if desired.

The model will need a 48" x 3/16" launch rod. It reaches Fv in 37" on the C6-5.

Length: 27.75"
Diameter: 1.34"
Fin Span: 11.34" *
Weight: 3.5 oz

*This is the fin span reported by the simulation, however the outer 1.5" of each tip drops downward 90 degrees to become a pylon for the pod. RockSim is incapable of showing this at present.

C6-5......646'......Dv 14 FPS

I will try to work up some alignment templates and post these shortly to show you better what I had in mind.

Enjoy!

CPMcGraw

04-30-2007, 01:55 PM

This is a simple two-stage, but it recycles the SEMROC Laser-Cut fin sheets for the Centuri Marauder. The sustainer uses an 18mm motor, while the booster uses a 24mm motor.

Length: 27.33"
Diameter: 1.04" (ST-10)
Fin Span: 6.78"
Weight: 1.87 oz

All motor combinations require a 48" x 3/16" launch rod. Best performance also requires at least 1 oz of ballast in the payload compartment. A lightweight digital camera would be a good candidate.

C11-0 / B6-6......1100'......Dv 15 FPS
C11-0 / C6-7......1660'......Dv 11 FPS
D12-0 / C6-7......2275'......Dv 24 FPS

Enjoy!

Maniac BAR

05-13-2007, 04:55 PM

Boy, have I been gone awhile! :eek: I think the last time I got into this forum was back around the mid of last year. I now have way too many new Rocksim files downloaded from here! :D Anyhoo, I have a few to add to the stew. No pun intended! :p

First up is a neat three stage ring fin I call the Ring Fin Thingy. It has flown three times so far with the first two flights causing a long walk to retrive do to angular staging. Boost on both was fine but as each stage lit, the whole thing went more and more out of vertical. Both flights were with the fins aligned with each other and 1/4 oz. of nose weight.
The third flight was with 1/8 oz. of nose weight added and the fins aligned out of phase with each other. Fantastic flight straight up! :) Don't know if it was the nose weight or the fins but I was very satisfied with the end result, finally.
The interesting thing with this one is the fact that with the proper engine stack you can acutually fly it in a small field! :D
The odd thing is the launch rod length. I have flown it all the times with a 48" rod with no problems. The rocket has left the rod straight up and only had the earlier problem when staging.
The ring fin program has the added quirk of adding pylons automatically. That may be the problem with the ring fin vs. the inside tube debate. I had to add the "fins" myself and then used the inside tube trick to get the ring size and fit that I needed.
Although the design doesn't call for any nose weight, I did the swing test with the full stack loaded and it did require a small amout to stabilize properly.
The only main problem aside from the angular staging, has been fin breakage on recovery. The boosters and the sustainer have broken one or more fin joints more than once. The weight of the engine casings is enough to make the boosters tumble rather quickly. The damage has been easily repairable so far. The addition of more glue to the joints may also be the reason for the added nose weight. One thing seems to build on another.

Anyway here are the files:

Maniac BAR

05-13-2007, 05:18 PM

This next one is a rocket design I used for the EMRR 2006 Challenge. The prototype had a less than steller career. :( You can see the mess on EMRR or go to YouTube under rockets. The url is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGUI-6Xi4XM. The design was such a hit that I needed to make another with some modifications to assure good flights.
The original had only the four outboard motors and it wasn't until the third flight that they all lit. The problem on the first flight was my fault and the second one was an untimely cato. :o The final flight was perfect right up to chute deployment. One chute went south and the other impalled itself on the front of the nose cone and that was that. :(
For those of you that have the launch equiptment to lite multipul motors this is a fairly quick build and a real crowd pleaser. A five station clip whip is needed as well as a car type battery.
With a central D motor and your choise of A motors on the outboards this bird can fly in the confines of a small park without problems.
The only thing not shown in the sim. is the change I made to recovery. The nose cone with the majority of the weight in it needs its own chute! Use a 24" chute for the nose and a 18" chute for the main body. The first and only flight so far was just fantastic! Everything worked like a charm and the recovery walk was a nice short one. :)

Here is the Orion Cargo Carrier:

CPMcGraw

05-15-2007, 11:26 PM

So now we're all getting into ring fins. Cool! :D

Now that I've had some good flights with Lil' Battle Axe and those fiber fins, I thought I'd cook up another design that takes advantage of the laser cutting capability of Carl's fancy Krellvenator. I call this one Firebird, but don't expect high-altitude performance. It doesn't even reach 500' on a C6 motor, according to RockSim. It's the high drag from those rings. When you look at the RKT file, take a look at the chart found in the Rocket | CD Analysis dialog. They're 95% of the total drag on this model.

Length: 17.95"
Diameter: 1.04" (BC-760)
Fin Span: 3.611"
Weight: 1.25 oz

B4-2......252'......Dv 19 FPS......36" x 1/8" rod
C6-3......464'......Dv 9 FPS.......36" x 1/8" rod

Enjoy!

A Fish Named Wallyum

05-16-2007, 05:57 AM

Geez, Geoff, post a link to the video. I can't sift through all of the NBA and Mentos/Diet Coke crap. Only so many hours in a week. :rolleyes:

Solomoriah

05-16-2007, 07:02 AM

Wow, Craig... so after you build yours, I can just order up a set of those fins from Carl?

... might have to build one myself.

CPMcGraw

05-16-2007, 11:07 AM

Wow, Craig... so after you build yours, I can just order up a set of those fins from Carl?

... might have to build one myself.

Let me get at least one prototype flown before everyone bombards Carl with requests :D ...

It may need some tweaking...

CPMcGraw

05-18-2007, 05:08 PM

This is a new plan, but it is also a 15% upscale of the original design I posted here some time back. I have now completed a prototype of that version using 13mm motors, and should be flight-testing it tomorrow (weather permitting, which looks great). This larger version seems better suited for the 18mm motors available, as the Dv numbers are all below 8 FPS.

All motors reach flight velocity on a standard 36" x 1/8" rod.

Length: 19.565"
Diameter: 1.04" (ST-10)
Fin Span: 5.665"
Weight: 1.33 oz

A8-3......200'......Dv 4 FPS
B4-4......460'......Dv 5 FPS
B6-4......470'......Dv 7 FPS
C6-5......965'......Dv 3 FPS

Enjoy!

Maniac BAR

05-22-2007, 10:45 PM

Sorry Bill, you can see the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGUI-6Xi4XM. It is also on EMRR in the Design This Spaceship contest from last year. The rocket is the Federated Transport and Delivery rocket which took third place.

CPMcGraw

05-25-2007, 10:44 PM

Pronounced: a-po-ka' ly-psis

I just like the sound of the name...:rolleyes:

This was a simple doodle in RockSim tonight. Try to imagine those fins as being nose cones with pod bodies stuck on the tips, similar to those on the Antares.

Good performance, low Dv numbers. All motors reach safe flight velocity on a standard 36" x 1/8" launch rod.

Length: 23.30"
Diameter: 0.908" (ST-8)
Fin Span: 5.53"
Weight: 1.23 oz

A8-3.......232'......Dv 6 FPS
B4-4.......526'......Dv 15 FPS
B6-4.......531'......Dv 19 FPS
C6-5......1084'......Dv 16 FPS

Enjoy!

Maniac BAR

05-26-2007, 05:45 PM

Ok, Craig, can you do anything with this one? Put it together from two others that were not quite right for what they were built for and I didn't want to throw them out. It has flown, it went remarkably high on two A10-3T's. Recovered just fine not far from the pad. I have tried to get it into RockSim but I don't have enough experence with the program to do so, if it can at all. It is called the "Two Fer".

BT-5 tubes : 2@ 8.5"
2@ 1.75
Std. Estes PNC-5 nose cones
Fins from the Mirv Gryphen
Duel streamer recovery using #30 Kevlar only
Motor blocks in the main tubes only
Small spacer blocks between main tubes to allow easier engine removal

I would like to try four engines but I would also like to get it dang thing back!! :D

CPMcGraw

06-09-2007, 11:22 AM

This is still a "work-in-progress", but I thought I'd share it in its current form to see if anyone can "spot the loony" as to where I'm hung up. The inspiration comes from the twin-glider project by Buzz Nau, but as you can easily tell, it's not an exact copy. My idea is to use twin drop-off boosters with "D" motors, and very possibly incorporate one of the new "super-micro" Spektrum or Futaba radio systems for control of the glider.

Obviously I cannot simulate this model in RockSim beyond the graphics, but I think you can get the general idea. The glider will need flight balancing, and that will be determined by whether I do include the radio or not (I am leaning that way, but I still want to see the glider free-flight...).

Glider:

Length: 23.8"
Diameter: 1.34" (ST-13)
Wing Span: 10.09" (5 degree dihedral total)
Weight: 1.81 oz (no radio)

Each Booster:

Length: 23.0"
Diameter: 1.04" (ST-10)
Fin Span: 3.54"
Weight: 1.06 oz

Planned motor is the D12-3 in each booster.

Contemplate!

Chris_Timm

06-17-2007, 04:30 PM

Found this pic on ebay.
Looks like something Mr. Pierson designed.

Chris_Timm

06-17-2007, 04:32 PM

Here is the backside of the photo of the vintage rocket model.

James Pierson

06-17-2007, 08:20 PM

Good find Chris. Looks like Mr. Maurice Poirier has a nack for sci-fi and is way ahead of his time for 1937. I would like to have seen that test launch from behind a concrete bunker :eek: !
A couple of other thinks I noticed in the photo is the size of the rafter tails coming down from the roof system. They are true 2 inch by 4 inch 2x4's and they also look to be cut by hand with an handsaw. That was before power tools came along :cool: .

PS. Please don't call me Mr.-- Makes me feel old and I'm only 39 and holding :p .

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

Tau Zero

06-18-2007, 01:07 AM

PS. Please don't call me Mr.-- Makes me feel old and I'm only 39 and holding :p .JP,

The way *I* read what Chris wrote, it said, "Our Very Own Young Mr. Pierson." :D :cool:

(But then again, I'm 45, my dad is 91, and my mom is 81. :eek: :cool: )

On the other hand, you could *also* add the phrase, "Mr. Pierson, who is pretty much the same age as Jay's kid brother Tom." (whose DOB is 10/24/1967).

Cheers,

Chris_Timm

06-18-2007, 12:08 PM

PS. Please don't call me Mr.-- Makes me feel old and I'm only 39 and holding :p .

I meant it as a small token of respect for your incredible imagination put forth in your designs.

Heck, I can't even muster up a decent color schemes for my stable of Omega clones.
Many are still primer white.
One has flourescent red fins, white tube, silver payload, black nose.
Another has only black fins so far.......maybe I'll add some striping that follows the body tube seams.

Any ideas ???

CPMcGraw

06-18-2007, 03:23 PM

It's been a little quiet here in Barcloneland for a few weeks, but it's only because I've been trying to get a few earlier designs built / primed / flyable. I've been working on the new website, too. The website update is still far behind schedule, but progressing. My earlier code was getting too unruly to manage, and I decided it needed a complete start-from-scratch approach.

As for models built recently, I've added a SEMROC Mark II and a Squire. These have been primed, but need sanding. The Squire was built in a short-body configuration, with the motor tube exposed about an inch behind the main tube. The fins were notched to fit the step-down. I have also built a Centuri IRIS and Nomad from SEMROC components. The IRIS is primed but not sanded, and the Nomad needs its first prime coat.

A SEMROC Recruiter model (Serial #16) has been given its primer coat and awaits sanding.

The newest BARCLONEs to be added are the Argo, which has been primed and sanded, and the Rhemus, which needs priming. A second Antares prototype is now ready for priming. I changed a few details about this one, such as a longer motor tube (6"), longer pod tubes (3" versus 2"), and longer pod nose cones (2.75" versus 2.125"); also the shroud support vanes have been trimmed to 2.75" in length and are recessed about 0.125" behind the leading edge of the shroud. It made the model a bit cleaner in appearance.

My Cherokee Double-D model, which has been assembled but unprimed for quite some time has finally received the launch lugs and the first shot of primer. It's no longer nekkid. It also sports a clear plastic payload section I found in my scraps box.

An Estes Sizzler clone (#1906) has been built and primed. The two SEC Alphas (one in Auburn trim, one in Alabama trim) have been primed, but the decals have not yet been printed. A kit C-C Express was finally primed.

A Quest Big Betty and Courier, which have been sitting off to the side for several years, have been primed and are waiting sanding.

I still have a batch of models needing their first prime coats, but little by little I'm getting control of the collection. Really. And I still have hair on my head, too. Nearly all of it silver, but still enough to need a trip to the barber once in awhile.

As I type this, it's pouring down here in Mobile! Real, honest rain! We've been under a burn ban for several weeks, which has kept me from flying. I'm planning to take some additional equipment along on my next session, including one of those deck protectors you place a grill on top of (flame-resistant mat) for the launch pad, and a pump-sprayer with about a gallon of water in it. I figure these ought to provide some cheap insurance against potential pad-area incidents. This rain will help considerably, though. Our ground is bone-dry, and whatever falls today will likely just get sucked down and disappear quickly. The grass will enjoy it.

Photos of these new models will be available later. I need to set up a photo table to make them stand out better...

James Pierson

06-18-2007, 09:48 PM

Chris_Timm Quote:
I meant it as a small token of respect for your incredible imagination put forth in your designs.

Thanks Chris for your respect, it is well appreciated :) .

Any ideas ???

My dad is fully colorblind an I am sure I am partially, but I will give it my best shot with the recently painted prototypes. I seem to have a thing for contrast in colors like Navy Blue with silver for The Shredder, Flat White and Maroon Red for both the Time Runner and XX-2, and with the Megga Dogfighter II is Navy Blue and Flat White.

Thanks Again and Enjoy, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

James Pierson

06-18-2007, 09:54 PM

Chris_Timm Quote:
I meant it as a small token of respect for your incredible imagination put forth in your designs.

Thanks Chris for the kindness is well appreciated :) .

Any ideas ???
My dad is fully colorblind an I am sure I am partially, but I will give it my best shot with the recently painted prototypes. I seem to have a thing for contrast in colors like Navy Blue with Silver for The Shredder, Flat White and Maroon Red for both the Time Runner and XX-2, and with the Megga Dogfighter II is Navy Blue and Flat White.

Thanks Again and Enjoy, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/TimeRunnerandMeggaDogfighterII.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/TopViewTimeRunnerandMeggaDogfighter.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/TheShredderII.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/XX-2andCosmicPoo.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/rocketry_preservation_society/FleetPhoto.jpg

.

EchoVictor

06-19-2007, 08:41 AM

Looking good, James! Any plans for decals for this crew?

Later,
EV

CPMcGraw

06-19-2007, 11:28 AM

Very nice fleet, JP. Only now, you've made it more difficult for me to just leave mine in primer. :o

The Blue Angels probably won't mind your choice of Navy Blue and Silver... :cool:

James Pierson

07-01-2007, 08:28 PM

CPMcGraw

07-01-2007, 11:15 PM

Its been so long since I posted a new rocksim design that I almost forgot how!
Here is one I call the Anti-Cyclone, named after the massive red stop on the planet Jupiter which is apparently a gaint unending circular storm like a hurricane. I just thought the name was cool anyways :D . This one is unbuilt for now but may make its way to the build list soon.

Thanks Again and Enjoy, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

I'm glad someone is still doing something! I wish I could get back to designing a few, but...

Most of my time lately has been trying to finish up the new web pages for BARCLONE. I'm closing in on the finish line, I think, but it's still a major time-killer. The first 100 models are in the database with description pages to provide some details for each model. It averages about four separate files for each model, which is probably the easiest way to accomplish what I was trying to do. Basically, this website will have well over 1300 files by the time I get this first edition sent up to Scott.

One nagging 'feature' that the new site tries to accomplish is to adjust itself optimally for everyone's screen, as long as that screen is at least 1024 pixels wide. It doesn't always optimize cleanly -- some things shift on top of others at the lower sizes unless I'm really on top of it. Visitors with screens smaller than 1024 wide will get nothing except a nag page complaining about it. :D

PDAs and cell phones are completely out of luck. The nav bar on the left side takes 250 px by itself!

For you programmers, it's written in PHP, generating HTML; there is a little JavaScript for some client-side processing, but mostly it's server-side action. All of the models, decals, and other goodies have their primary data stored in a MySQL database. Page formatting is done with CSS, which has really simplified the project.

More to come. I'm seeing daylight. It's a bright light, anyway...

James Pierson

07-02-2007, 12:50 PM

CPMcGraw Quote:
I'm glad someone is still doing something! I wish I could get back to designing a few, but...

Wish I had the computer knowledge to help you out bro. Seems we have to make choices with the TIME situation all the time :D . Design in rocksim vs actually build the design etc... I could not imagine having the time to do a set of instruction :o .

James Pierson
NAR#77907

James Pierson

07-08-2007, 06:24 PM

Here is another design with the theme of a long distance interstellar traveler between planet outposts. Finally found a good use for the Semroc BC-1043. I think that that odd nosecone really makes this design look good and plan on using it more often. I did leave the Dv's a little high and on the early side of this design as she will probably be heavier that Rocksim says. It will also require a 48" and will use either B6-2 or C6-5.

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

CPMcGraw

07-08-2007, 06:43 PM

Here is another design with the theme of a long distance interstellar traveler between planet outposts...

Nice design, as usual. This one begs to be built. It has the kind of lines that suggest it should still be a great model, even if it is a bit heavy. Reef the chutes...

One of these days next century maybe I can get some building time and work a copy up. Looks like it should be a good display model, too.

James Pierson

07-08-2007, 11:24 PM

Thanks Craig, I am glad you like it.
.
CPMcGraw Quote:
One of these days next century maybe I can get some building time and work a copy up. Looks like it should be a good display model, too.

Ditto, here on my end as well. I just took a month or some and stopped with all the Rocksimming and went to building and painting. Now I am back to Rocksim and have taken a look at what I thought was complete and ready to post :eek: . What was I thinking :o (smacking forehead) they all need more work and in a bad way! Just needed a fresh set of eyes I guess.

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

LeeR

07-09-2007, 12:32 AM

A Fish Named Wallyum

07-09-2007, 12:47 AM

Well, I am not sure if this is technically a kit bash -- I just stole the nose cone and tube, then added more tubes, sawed of cones, etc.

Attached are pctures of the work in progress, and the box art of the bashed kit. One of the most lame designs using a "Fighter" style nose cone I ever saw come out of Estes. But I bought two of them knowing I'd steal the cone for another project.

This one is a "one-off" -- no plans, I'm refinishing a dresser for my daughter, and decided to invent the build on the fly, between endless sanding I needed a diversion!. It will not be a high-flyer, I used the plastic motor mount out the Astro Sat LSX kit, which is an 18mm mount. (Kit had a fin unit that had glue-in fins, which I left out. The tube is a BT-56, which I glued into a BT-60, and then deformed the tube into an oval, so the outer tube looks like it forms engine intakes.

Will sand, and then primer the whole thing this week. Has been kind of fun to see what happens. I'd cut out a fin template, modify it, try different mounting locations, etc.

This cone had a couple of other turdly Almost RTF designs in its lifetime. One was the dual shuttle bird that had gliders that flew like leaves in the fall. I got one in the Designer's Special that I bought back in 2001 and I was p.o.'d. It gathered dust for most of the spring and I somehow eventually used it in an upscale of a Design Of The Month bird that I called the Marauder. (I think the Intruder was the name of the original plan.) It flew great and was lost after only a couple of flights, and I surprised myself by buying an AstroSat kit to bash into another one. That one is still flying, but showing its age. ;)

James Pierson

07-09-2007, 08:45 PM

Two thumbs up in my book. Nicely done gentlemen :cool: , very nicely done.

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

LeeR

07-09-2007, 11:08 PM

Thanks James for the nice words... I've got to go back thru this thread (long!). I've spotted some pretty creative designs here and want a closer examination.

Bill -- nice! Is yours built for 18mm? I'd be afraid of never seeing mine again with anything more than a C. I tend to fly stuff like this a time or two, chicken out, and retire it to the top of the bookcase.

:)

I seem to be in a sci-fi / fantasy rocket mood. Next may be the upscale Orbital Transport (got the decals!) and then maybe the Outlander customizations. I also found parts I'd started for another Saturn IV, slightly bigger than the plans call for (ala Peter Always' book).

Tau Zero

07-09-2007, 11:47 PM

Well, I am not sure if this is technically a kit bash -- I just stole the nose cone and tube, then added more tubes, sawed of cones, etc.

This one is a "one-off" -- no plans, I'm refinishing a dresser for my daughter, and decided to invent the build on the fly, between endless sanding I needed a diversion!. It will not be a high-flyer,Lee,

That looks *really* cool! :D Congrats on the "stream of consciousness" build! :cool:

Cheers,

James Pierson

07-13-2007, 10:35 PM

This is a new design that I call the Cosmic Moon Ship (18mm). These planes with the wings in a more forward position are difficult to get a posative static margin. Adding nose wieght helps but seems to really hamper the preformance in flight. I have added BT-3 tubes in pairs to the tail for looks. I have discovered that with any tube fins it is much easier to align them on the BT in pairs if I first glued together on a flat surface in pairs.

Thanks and Enjoy, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

LeeR

07-14-2007, 07:22 PM

James,

Another very cool design. This is a fun thread to check in on periodically.

I've never gotten around to buying Rocksim, and all the great designs I've seen on this thread, plus the website, have me getting really close to placing that order. Problem is, I've got lots of old Estes classics to build, some ideas in my head, and all the designs posted here are making the problem get worse, not better!

I need to retire SOON and up the build rate!

:)

James Pierson

07-14-2007, 11:15 PM

LeeR
I've never gotten around to buying Rocksim, and all the great designs I've seen on this thread, plus the website, have me getting really close to placing that order. Problem is, I've got lots of old Estes classics to build, some ideas in my head, and all the designs posted here are making the problem get worse, not better!

Thanks Lee, I am glad you like what we have here. The Choice to build, fly or design seems to be a simple one with me lately. If I have the parts, I build, if not I design :D .

Here is another design I call the Frontier Explorer. I got the illustration from an G. Harry Stine book cover I found on e-bay. The book was called Man and the Space Frontier. Picture too large to post. It is not anything scale, I just gave it a good guess and some major tweeking for stability.

Thanks Again and Enjoy, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

CPMcGraw

07-15-2007, 11:04 AM

This set of designs is based on the 3" components just announced in the "Vendors" thread by Mercury Engineering. Their 3" ogive nose cone looked interesting...

I call this set the Big Baby Cherokee D3Mx, where "x" represents the number of 24mm motor tubes in the model.

General specs for all three models:

Length: 28.0"
Diameter" 3.0"
Fin Span: 12.08"

[ADDENDUM: RockSim plugged in a setting of "solid" instead of "hollow" for the nose cone. I didn't catch it until the files were sent. It does change the flight specs quite a bit... :o :D ]

D3M1 specs:

Weight: 11.38 oz (no ballast required)

F21W-6......1300'......Dv 1 FPS......48" x 3/16" rod

D3M2 specs:

Weight: 12.03 oz (0.5 oz ballast in tip of NC required)

(2) E30-7.......1710'......Dv 24 FPS......36" x 3/16" rod

D3M3 specs:

Weight: 14.38 oz (3 oz ballast required in tip of NC)

(3) F21W-8......3000'......Dv 34 FPS......36" x 3/16" rod
(3) F72-10......3575'......Dv 15 FPS......36" x 3/16" rod
(3) F32-10......3945'......Dv 7 FPS.......36" x 3/16" rod

Enjoy!

James Pierson

07-15-2007, 02:05 PM

Nice designs Craig, and I wiil be sure to add the NC to my database. A guy can always use more parts :D .

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

CPMcGraw

07-15-2007, 02:12 PM

OK, here's one that's a little more serious in nature. Using those Mercury Engineering components, I applied a full measure of force in motors to reach a full mile in altitude. It jumps off the pad and reaches stable flight velocity in 13", so a minimum 36" x 1/4" rod is required. A 48" x 1/4" rod would give it more support, though.

Length: 61.875"
Diameter: 3.0"
Fin Span: 12.0"
Weight: 19.77 oz
Parachute: 36" Rip-Stop Nylon

(5) G55-10......5000'......Dv 23 FPS......36" x 1/4" rod
(5) G37-10......5321'......Dv 20 FPS......36" x 1/4" rod

More foo for thought... :D

Enjoy!

PS -- Whoever builds this bird owes us all some flight shots!

CPMcGraw

07-16-2007, 12:26 AM

Nice designs Craig, and I wiil be sure to add the NC to my database. A guy can always use more parts :D .

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

My cements eggzactly... :D

Seriously, though, having a manufacturer of larger components opens up a multitude of possibilities...

Imagine, for example, if we had the SEMROC BC-760 nose cone in 3" diameter hollow poly? My head is spinning about what the Andromeda would look like at that scale...

Let's see...

3" divided by 0.736" equals about 4.08. Now, the current version of the Andromeda is 29.25", multiplied by 4.08 gives us 119.34". The original fin span is 5.86", multiplied by 4.08 would be 23.90" across.

Sounds like I need to work up a RockSim on this bad boy... :rolleyes: :D :eek:

LeeR

07-16-2007, 10:41 PM

Here is another design I call the Frontier Explorer. I got the illustration from an G. Harry Stine book cover I found on e-bay.

Hmm, makes me wonder if Vern got the idea for the Drifter from this design. Except that the Drifter was single BT, its fins and tailcone have a very similar look.

James Pierson

07-17-2007, 08:47 PM

LeeR
Hmm, makes me wonder if Vern got the idea for the Drifter from this design. Except that the Drifter was single BT, its fins and tailcone have a very similar look.

If you are still wondering, check this out and tell me what classic kit this Vintage Sci-Fi magazine cover of Startling Stories has inspired? One of my most favorite kits :D .

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

hawkshobby

07-17-2007, 11:45 PM

LeeR

If you are still wondering, check this out and tell me what classic kit this Vintage Sci-Fi magazine cover of Startling Stories has inspired? One of my most favorite kits :D .

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

Well let's see now could it be the Centuri Starfight from Buck Rogers or the Blackhawk
from estes. The latter of I am just waiting on parts for the up scale kits :D :D :D

Mark

James Pierson

07-18-2007, 07:51 PM

Mark
Well let's see now could it be the Centuri Starfight from Buck Rogers or the Blackhawk from estes. The latter of I am just waiting on parts for the up scale kits.

Yeah, Blackhawk, that's the one I was thinkin of ;) .
An upscale of the Blackhawk is a must buy in my book. Do you have a release date yet Mark? Advance Orders??

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

Lady Hawk

07-19-2007, 11:09 AM

Mark

Yeah, Blackhawk, that's the one I was thinkin of ;) .
An upscale of the Blackhawk is a must buy in my book. Do you have a release date yet Mark? Advance Orders??

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

Hoping to have it done and ready for release with in the next 2 months. Not sure the price yet.
Anyone that wants to put in a advanced order just send me a email or PM and I'll put you on a list to have 1st option when the kit is done.

Oh ya and James I have put you on the list. :)

Loretta
sales@hawkshobby.com

James Pierson

07-19-2007, 07:42 PM

Finally I am on someboby's list in a good way :D , at least this time ;) !

Thanks Loretta, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

CPMcGraw

07-20-2007, 06:25 PM

A burly 24mm design for smoke and noise. The name fits the design, making more noise than a similarly sized model. Croesus was a braggard in his day, only spared from the smoke and flame by Cyrus at the last moment.

Length: 23.20"
Diameter: 1.04" (ST-10 main body)
Fin Span: 7.75"
Weight: 2.92 oz

All motors reach flight velocity in 36", although the C11 and D12 take it to the end of the rod...

C11-5......558'.......Dv 0.5 FPS
D12-7......1168'......Dv 24 FPS
E15-7......2459'......Dv 15 FPS
E6-6.......2782'......Dv 19 FPS

Enjoy!

James Pierson

07-20-2007, 11:10 PM

CPMcGraw
A burly 24mm design for smoke and noise. The name fits the design, making more noise than a similarly sized model. Croesus was a braggard in his day, only spared from the smoke and flame by Cyrus at the last moment.
Good one Craig. I guess that this would be concidered a Mid Power design. Maybe instead of a Schoolyard Sounder it's a Sports Field Special :D ?

Here is a retro design with a sort of Russian appeal that I call the M-4. Its the typical 18mm motor mount and flies well on B-C motors. Also as usual all Semroc Parts.

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

CPMcGraw

07-21-2007, 12:18 PM

...Here is a retro design with a sort of Russian appeal that I call the M-4. Its the typical 18mm motor mount and flies well on B-C motors. Also as usual all Semroc Parts...

I like it, James. Sometimes it's fun to just step back and whip out a simple design with good to modest performance. And it flies from a standard rod, too. Dress it up with some red stars and your Russian-Retro will be complete...

James Pierson

07-27-2007, 10:44 PM

Here is another Jet that flies on 13mm motor. The main body is a ST-7 tube and I have named it Mach 9.

Lately I have finished one job :D , took a week off of work :p , and started another job only working 40 hrs a week. It is very very nice to have my weekends back after 5 months of 60 hr weeks. Plan on getting some more test flights in soon ;) .

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

Solomoriah

07-28-2007, 08:44 AM

Could you repost the 3D view in different colors? I can't make it out in black-on-black, and I don't have RockSim anymore...

James Pierson

07-28-2007, 01:24 PM

Solomoriah
Could you repost the 3D view in different colors? I can't make it out in black-on-black, and I don't have RockSim anymore...

Hope this Helps. I have not figured out how to save a file for the fin patterns yet so here are some other views and info.

Mach 9 (13mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
[1/2A3T-4].........210.33248 Ft................26.3935 ft/s
[A10T-3].............441.16155 Ft................24.9400 ft/s
A3T-4].................469.95209 Ft................1.1093 ft/s

The Dv's are a littler high but these design always seem to be a little heavier than Rocksim says.

Mach 9 Parts List: All Semroc Parts

--Nose cone Semroc - BC-727 - Balsa Nose Cone, Material: Balsa
Solid Ogive,
--Main Body tube Semroc - ST-790 - Body Tube, Material: Spiral/Glassine
--Wing Fin set - Custom, Material: Balsa 3/32” (2 Qty.)
--Motor Mount Body tube Semroc - ST-520 - Body Tube, Material: Spiral/Glassine
--Engine block Semroc - TB-5 - Thrust Block, Material: Paper
--Tail Fin set - Custom, Material: Balsa 3/32” (2 Qty.)
--Parachute Semroc - CP-12 - 12 in. Plastic Chute, Material: Polyethylene LDPE
--Screw Eye-Large Semroc - SE-12 - Screw Eye-Large
--Shock Cord Semroc - - , Material: 1/8 In. flat elastic 20 inches
--Centering ring Semroc - CR-57 - Centering Ring, Material: **Paper .05 Thickness** (2 Qty.)
--Canopy - Custom, Material: Balsa **3/8 inches thickness**
--Pod tube Semroc - Bt-3 - Semroc Classic, Material: Paper (2 Qty.)
Len: 2.0000 In. Location: 0.0000 In. From the base of Main Body tube
--Launch lug Semroc - LL-115 - Launch Lug, Material: Paper

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

Solomoriah

07-28-2007, 02:23 PM

Hope this Helps. I have not figured out how to save a file for the fin patterns yet so here are some other views and info.
It's beautiful. But a margin of 0.46 without engines seems a bit unstable to me.

James Pierson

07-28-2007, 02:49 PM

Solomoriah
It's beautiful. But a margin of 0.46 without engines seems a bit unstable to me.

Solomoriah, in that particular view I move the wing fins forward and at 0 degrees so both fin patterns would be visible for you to see. The actual margin with an A3T-4 loaded is a healthy 1.60 margin with wings in rear location and at 90 degrees.

Also made a mistake on the previous parts list post. The balsa material in the Rocksim file is 1/16 ich material to get a margin of 1.60. Balsa material of 3/32 inch thick can also be used and only drops the margin down to 1.53 margin.

Thanks Again and Enjoy, JP

James Pierson
NAR # 77907

CPMcGraw

07-28-2007, 06:03 PM

RockSim has an export option button at the bottom of the fin dialog which saves a pattern as an SVG file, or "Scaleable Vector Graphic". You need Corel Draw (or some other vector-graphic program) to edit it. Photoshop is not capable of reading this or doing anything with it.

It's not 100% accurate, but for most plans, it works reasonably well. Corel Draw, on the other hand, has a steep learning curve as well as some internal bugs when it comes to importing SVG images to work with. There is also one book available for Draw 12, and it's not the most user-friendly or complete; it just happens to be the only book available anywhere. This is what I'm working with now for fin patterns on all future BARCLONE projects, and it's also what Carl uses to prime the Krell laser with. :D

Not an endorsement of the website, but you might be able to get a copy of Draw 12 here for $50: http://www.everythingoutlet.com/cid/soft-graphic

Note that Carl needs fin pattern files in Draw 10 format, not Draw 12, so anything you send him would need to be saved in the older format...

The book is called "Corel Draw 12 The Official Guide", by Steve Bain. You can get a copy from Amazon for $29.99: http://www.amazon.com/Coreldraw-12-Official-Steve-Bain/dp/0072231912/ref=sr_1_1/102-8031787-8635317?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185663672&sr=8-1

Tau Zero

07-28-2007, 09:48 PM

Note that Carl needs fin pattern files in Draw 10 format, not Draw 12, so anything you send him would need to be saved in the older format...So you can "Save As" version 10 format?

Inquiring minds want to know. :eek: ;) :D

Cheers,

CPMcGraw

07-29-2007, 12:21 AM

So you can "Save As" version 10 format?

Inquiring minds want to know. :eek: ;) :D

Cheers,

There's an option on the "Save As" dialog; it's not in the File | Menu per se, but in the actual "Save As" dialog on the far-right. There's a drop-down box which allows you to save in formats all the way back to Draw 7.

Solomoriah

07-30-2007, 07:44 AM

CPMcGraw

07-30-2007, 10:34 AM

InkScape is Open Source (i.e. Free) and handles SVG just fine. The Gimp (another Open Source program) can read SVG but doesn't always do a good job with it. I've used both in concert, i.e. InkScape to convert the image to a bitmap, then Gimp to polish it, with good success.

I really hate to buy software, but that's a rant for another day.

I bought my copy of Corel Draw only because "He Who Cuts Out Our Fins With Death Rays" says his machine takes this format. That's good enough reason for me... :D

Tau Zero

07-30-2007, 10:54 PM

I bought my copy of Corel Draw only because "He Who Cuts Out Our Fins With Death Rays" says his machine takes this format. That's good enough reason for me... :DLikewise. I mean, that's just how the Krell draw things... :eek: :rolleyes: ;) :D

"Monsters from the Id!" (Vincent Price voice) "--Or is that *Idaho?*" (maniacal laughter)

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=1238&highlight=Mu-tater

Cheers,

Solomoriah

07-30-2007, 10:56 PM

By "this format," do you mean SVG? SVG is the NATIVE format of InkScape, while it is an "export" for Corel. If I ever get the urge to have fins custom cut, I'll try InkScape first.

CPMcGraw

07-30-2007, 11:37 PM

By "this format," do you mean SVG? SVG is the NATIVE format of InkScape, while it is an "export" for Corel. If I ever get the urge to have fins custom cut, I'll try InkScape first.

No, the native format for Corel Draw is CDR. His laser apparently can accept Draw 10 CDR files directly as input. It doesn't accept Draw 12 CDR files, however.

James Pierson

08-08-2007, 08:38 PM

This particular design called Nebula, and I have redone it several times. The forward fin set on this design does not help the margin much. I finally can up with a way to add clay nose wieght without drilling the nose cone. Clay can be added by cutting the main BT 1.5 to 2 inches aft of the BNC and add a balsa tube coupler at this joint. The clay can be added in the hollow BT section between the BNC coupler and the Balsa Tube Coupler :D . The 2D drawing might help better explain this method :confused: .

This design is inspired by a vintage sci-fi magazine cover called Nebula issue #27. It is an 18mm design and falls in the VR class of designs. All Semroc parts have been used.

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

CPMcGraw

08-27-2007, 09:48 PM

OK, so this is a tired name that's been abused too often. I figured I couldn't do any worse...

Length: 16.10"
Diameter: 1.04" (ST-10)
Fin Span: 4.04"
Weight: 1.13 oz

A8-3.......239'......Dv 6 FPS.......36" x 1/8" rod
B4-4.......521'......Dv 10 FPS......36" x 1/8" rod
B6-4.......525'......Dv 14 FPS......36" x 1/8" rod
C6-5......1045'......Dv 8 FPS.......36" x 1/8" rod

It's a simple build, and should be a good stable flyer.

Enjoy!

CPMcGraw

09-01-2007, 04:54 PM

Eclipse is 13mm powered and has reasonable performance for its size. I'm putting this one in the "Schoolyard Sounders" category.

Length: 16.70"
Diameter: 0.908" (ST-8)
Fin Span: 3.908"
Weight: 1.08 oz

1/2 A3-2T......113'......Dv 13 FPS......36" x 1/8" rod
A10-3T.........314'......Dv 16 FPS......36" x 1/8" rod
A3-4T..........319'......Dv 14 FPS......36" x 1/8" rod

May be one of my next build projects...

Enjoy!

James Pierson

09-01-2007, 11:15 PM

Keep up the good work Craig and a big Thanks for picking my slacker ways lately :D . I seem to be distracted and busy doing everything but rocketry :rolleyes: .

Here is another design I am calling Satellite Hunter. Its an 18mm design and falls in the VR class. I have mixed alot of different tube sizes and balsa transitions onto this design to achieve this look. Probably a skill level 3 for this design because of all the Semroc parts.

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

CPMcGraw

09-01-2007, 11:40 PM

Keep up the good work Craig and a big Thanks for picking my slacker ways lately :D . I seem to be distracted and busy doing everything but rocketry :rolleyes: .

Same here, James. I've been away from the design screen too long, and just had to put something down in RockSim to keep from getting completely rusted out. The temps down here are only now starting to moderate back to the low 90s; lots of cooling thunder storms to make it happen, though, and usually around 4 PM on Saturdays. In other words, prime rocket-flying time. Wouldn't do good to try painting anything, either, with all that humidity.

Projects are backing up here, too. That SST:Space Shuttle is open and begging for attention, there's a Taurus and an April Dancer waiting their turns, the SIB taunts me as badly as the Apollo Capsule from the LJII which still needs finishing...

And, OBTW, the website still needs completing before it grows hair and legs and walks off in a huff...

I need a vacation from my relaxing hobbies. Some quality time in an office cubicle with a pointy-haired boss might be refreshing...

CPMcGraw

09-05-2007, 02:11 PM

Another pre-used name, but I like mine better... :D

This one goes into the "Tau-style" category, using the BC-760 nose cone. It can also be classified as a cousin to the Andromeda, because of the "reactor shroud" components. For an added bonus, I'm going to "wedge-fit" this one into the VR class, since the top altitude is just fractionally over 800'.

Length: 23.95"
Diameter: 1.64" (ST-16)
Fin Span: 6.76"
Weight: 1.71 oz

B4-4......365'......Dv 9 FPS......1/8" x 36" launch rod
B6-4......375'......Dv 6 FPS......1/8" x 36" launch rod
C6-5......815'......Dv 8 FPS......1/8" x 36" launch rod

Enjoy!

Fore Check

09-05-2007, 06:32 PM

This is a simple design with great performance, low Dv numbers, and good looks as a sport modroc. It has over 1000' capability on a C6-5.

Length: 16.92"
Diameter: 1.04" (ST-10)
Fin Span: 5.04"
Weight: 1.262 oz

A8-3.......217'......Dv 2 FPS
B4-4.......498'......Dv 10 FPS
C6-5......1039'......Dv 11 FPS

Enjoy!

I like the look of this one - the "Rhemus."

How about a 38mm powered 4" airframe upscale? Sims real nice on an AT I366R redline!

By the way..... what is this Dv number and its significance?

CPMcGraw

09-05-2007, 09:49 PM

I like the look of this one - the "Rhemus."

How about a 38mm powered 4" airframe upscale? Sims real nice on an AT I366R redline!

By the way..... what is this Dv number and its significance?

Thanks about the Rhemus. The 18mm prototype flies great, so an upscale would probably be spectacular. I'd love to see someone work up a 4" version; they'd be obligated to take and share lots of pictures and video of the flight attempt!

Dv is the "Deployment Velocity", or how fast the rocket is moving when it pops the parachute. Under 20 FPS (feet per second) is acceptable (for our small models, larger hardware may allow higher numbers), but over 20 is dangerous as it causes the canopy to open "explosively" if it isn't "reefed", or restricted in the speed it is allowed to open. Such explosive (that's how it sounds, too!) canopy openings tend to cause the chute to break free, shred the canopy material, or otherwise make itself useless. The lower you can get this number, the safer the deployment will be.

Fore Check

09-06-2007, 07:31 AM

Thanks about the Rhemus. The 18mm prototype flies great, so an upscale would probably be spectacular. I'd love to see someone work up a 4" version; they'd be obligated to take and share lots of pictures and video of the flight attempt!

Dv is the "Deployment Velocity", or how fast the rocket is moving when it pops the parachute. Under 20 FPS (feet per second) is acceptable (for our small models, larger hardware may allow higher numbers), but over 20 is dangerous as it causes the canopy to open "explosively" if it isn't "reefed", or restricted in the speed it is allowed to open. Such explosive (that's how it sounds, too!) canopy openings tend to cause the chute to break free, shred the canopy material, or otherwise make itself useless. The lower you can get this number, the safer the deployment will be.

Ahhh... Very familier with that - just wasn't sure what the "Dv" nomenclature stood for. I've had success with Dv (to go ahead and use that nomenclature) predictions in the 75 fps range with MPR and larger.

As far as a 4" Rhemus - I'm sure it would look great. The only daunting task would be cutting those honkin' wings - they'd take up an enourmous amount of plywood "fin stock" - the upscaled wing fin has a root chord of about 38.5"!

Based on my experience "building" an upscale like this in RockSim and then building the rocket, I'm sure that the predicted weight and therefore the flight performance would be quite a bit different in the finished model. That's why I start with the RockSim file, build the rocket, then weigh the finished model and adjust the finished weight and Cg in the RockSim file for final sims. I think that I build my HPR rockets lighter than most (I never use 'glass, and I use wood glue in construction) but my finished models generally run 25-40% heavier than what is predicted in RockSim. Truthfully, I think that the weight descrepancies are largely attributed to how RockSim predicts the weight of the fins themselves. The error is probably very small (such that in smaller models the actual weight difference is quite small) but the difference/error is compounded when you introduce high scale factors (385% in this casde.) That said, this rocket *might* require nose weight in reality. Building it would be a fun opportunity to use my plunge router to make the cut-outs in the wings... ;)

CPMcGraw

09-06-2007, 01:36 PM

...As far as a 4" Rhemus - I'm sure it would look great. The only daunting task would be cutting those honkin' wings - they'd take up an enourmous amount of plywood "fin stock" - the upscaled wing fin has a root chord of about 38.5"!

Building it would be a fun opportunity to use my plunge router to make the cut-outs in the wings... ;)

Don't try to build them from solid ply. Create laminates from thinner layers, and add lightening holes through some of the inner layers. We're talking aircraft-grade woodworking here. This also allows you to taper the leading edge by simply extending the width of the material in each layer until the center layer, then filling in the stair-steps with lightweight microballoons and finishing epoxy. The outer-most layers could be some of that 0.02" matte board to provide a smoother surface for finishing.

Fore Check

09-06-2007, 04:14 PM

Don't try to build them from solid ply. Create laminates from thinner layers, and add lightening holes through some of the inner layers. We're talking aircraft-grade woodworking here. This also allows you to taper the leading edge by simply extending the width of the material in each layer until the center layer, then filling in the stair-steps with lightweight microballoons and finishing epoxy. The outer-most layers could be some of that 0.02" matte board to provide a smoother surface for finishing.

That sounds like work. :eek:

I can bevel the edges with my router on a table with a fence and a 15 degree bevel bit. Works great.

CPMcGraw

09-10-2007, 11:44 PM

It's got the sharp lines and the fire red paint job, but it won't do no work, cause it's NOT A PAYLOADER. Maybe I shoulda named it FREELOADER instead... :D

Length: 23.0"
Diameter: 1.04" (ST-10)
Fin Span: 7.04"
Weight: 1.5 oz

A8-3......185'......Dv 7 FPS......36" x 1/8" rod
B4-4......435'......Dv 1 FPS......36" x 1/8" rod
B6-4......440'......Dv 6 FPS......36" x 1/8" rod
C6-5......915'......Dv 1 FPS......36" x 1/8" rod

Enjoy!

CPMcGraw

09-14-2007, 01:23 AM

Everyone,

Effective January of 2008, we need to curtail further posting to this thread and develop a new thread (or threads) for BARCLONE designs. Our beloved "Scrounged" thread is now 972 posts long, and is touching 100 pages as I type this. It also is not the best title for our thread, as it implies a haphazard, or "backwoods" approach to model rocket design. We need a more suitable platform to present to both newcomers and ourselves. Scott, Buzz, and I have already talked about making this change earlier this year, but I've been slack about getting a new thread started. Now, I think it's time to make the change...

On January 1st, the "Scrounged" thread should be locked down to new posts, and the messages archived. The new thread will be called "BARCLONE Designer's Studio", and I'm going to open this thread immediately for posting. All designs that you wish to see posted (eventually) on the BARCLONE website should be posted here first for "peer review". Remember that YORF will always be the first place for new designs to be showcased, allowing everyone here the opportunity to study and critique each design before the final version gets released to the general public.

Let's see how long it takes us to generate 1000 messages on this new thread. According to the post date for the very first "Scrounged" message, 05-30-2005, it took 2 years and 4 months to reach 972. I haven't counted how many unique designs are present in this thread; I know there have been quite a few.

A Fish Named Wallyum

09-14-2007, 01:28 AM

CPMcGraw

09-14-2007, 01:43 AM

I have to disagree. If it truly implied "backwoods" it would be called "Rockets I done thought up by my ownself".

I didn't say the designs were "backwoods", Bill, only that the thread name might have given that impression. It sounds like something that was "jest throwed together" without any forethought. Looking back at the long list of work represented in "Scrounged", it's nothing if not thought out. We may have reached a point where we can visually see what a model needs before putting parts together, but we got there by a lot of trial, error, and computer use. I wanted to present that idea in the new name, that we are a group of developers using modern tools and materials with classic, traditional building methods to produce really great models. It sounds a little more "professional"...

Solomoriah

09-14-2007, 07:04 AM

I have to disagree. If it truly implied "backwoods" it would be called "Rockets I done thought up by my ownself".
Hey, I like that!

Ltvscout

09-14-2007, 08:12 AM

On January 1st, the "Scrounged" thread should be locked down to new posts, and the messages archived.
I'll be up north snowmobiling over the holiday. Hopefully Buzz will be in town to do this.

Eagle3

09-14-2007, 08:19 AM

CPMcGraw

09-14-2007, 11:13 AM

..... maybe I'll be up north snowmobiling too????? :p

Hey guys, I know I mentioned splitting this up before and let it slide. What I can do now, if it makes sense, is to split off everything since 1/1/07 to a new "Scrounged '07" thread. Then I'll lock the original thread and maybe rename it "Scrounged '06". When '08 comes around I can do what Craig suggests. Even if I'm a week late I can always split off anything since 1/1 into the new thread.

(Mock 'Wild Kingdom' voice) While Buzz and Scott trek deeper into the arctic wilderness, I'll keep track of their progress from a location farther to the south...

Hopefully not freezing myself... :o

I've already created the "Designer's Studio" thread for new messages and designs, but I like the idea of breaking the old thread into year-based segments for archiving. Sorry I didn't get on this sooner.

Eagle3

09-14-2007, 02:30 PM

OK, the thread has been split into Scrounged 2006 (closed) and 2007 (open).

James Pierson

09-14-2007, 11:17 PM

I go and leave you guys alone for just a few days and look what you do :rolleyes: . Just split my whole world in three seperate threads :confused: .

Grinchy Yell " There'll be hell to pay!" :D

Besides I was hoping to soon reach that 1000 post and then onward to 10,000.

Small Question Added:
I would like to be able to always see the Scrounged-Up 2006 thread when I go into the Projects Threads. I there a way that I can mark it so that it will always appear when I log on. I use this thread alot when using rocksim for reference and hate to see this thread lost in the system.

Thanks, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

pantherjon

09-15-2007, 12:17 AM

Maybe they can make that thread a 'sticky'? So it is always at the top of the forum...

James Pierson

09-15-2007, 03:57 PM

pantherjon Maybe they can make that thread a 'sticky'? So it is always at the top of the forum...

That's the word I was looking for, "sticky" Thanks Jon ;) .

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

Ltvscout

09-16-2007, 09:06 AM

pantherjon

That's the word I was looking for, "sticky" Thanks Jon ;) .
Done.

pantherjon

10-02-2007, 01:48 PM

Seeing a little slowness in posting of new designs, I thought I would post one! :) Idea came from some excess balsa pieces from a kit I built a while ago..Looking at the 'scrap' it struck me they actually look like fins..lol..Off to play with my new toy RockSim!

It is an 18mm based rocket..Named Strike Six as it kind of resemble the Bullpup and has 6 fins..Cute right? :D Looks neat on the screen..will see how it looks when I build it!

Length: 14.75"
Diameter: 0.976"
Fin Span: 3.351"
Weight: 2.6672 oz

B4-4...406'....DV 5.63 ft/sec....1/8"x48" launch rod
B6-4...419'....DV 11.4 ft/sec...1/8"x48" launch rod
C10-7...1236'...DV 3.62 ft/sec..1/8"x48" launch rod
D3-7...2514':eek:...DV 13.81 ft/sec...1/8"x48" launch rod

CPMcGraw

10-11-2007, 09:15 PM

Since we haven't closed this thread yet, I'll add a new design here tonight...

I have this not-so-big backyard, about 200' x 175', and I thought about what size rocket I could safely fly here. I figured it needed to be streamer recovery to reduce drift, and needed to be capable of flying on about a 1/2A with a decent Dv. The thought occurred to me that most designs would use a small-diameter body tube, to maximize the altitude, and that would be detrimental to my purpose. So, I went the other way...

This design uses Series 13 components, and can still reach over 265' with a Dv of 3 on an A10-3. The performance on a 1/2A3-2 is just right, at 101' with a 7+ Dv. Both motors get off the pad with (guide rod) inches to spare.

Length: 16.60"
Diameter: 1.34" (ST-13)
Fin Span: 4.7"
Weight: 1.1 oz

1/2 A3-2T......101.5'......Dv 7 FPS......24"
A10-3T.........265'........Dv 3 FPS......20"

Enjoy!

Tau Zero

10-13-2007, 01:02 AM

Since we haven't closed this thread yet, I'll add a new design here tonight...Since Buzz has closed the "Scrounged 2006" thread, please focus your attention on this-here post from Way Last Year...

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showpost.php?p=12957&postcount=732

Recently, I've been making my RockSim nose cones look A Lot More Like the Real Thing, hence this updated version of my "Tryton" design.

Thanks, and cheers,

James Pierson

10-13-2007, 09:50 PM

This design was made for one thing and that is altitude. With a C6-7 should get above 2000 feet. This small of a rocket however would never been seen at that altitude so I used a 30 inch length of 3 inch wide yellow caution ribbon for the streamer to help the visibility problem. I avoided using the B4's as the Dv's just don't work well.

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

PS. I have already started the 12 Days of Christmas file for 2007. Its about half full of some really good design ;) but you will just have to "Wait Until Christmas" :rolleyes: JP.

Caution Ribbon Special (18mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
A8-5..................498.99278 Ft............8.5125 ft/s
B6-6..................1074.75394 Ft...........17.4464 ft/s
C6-7..................2056.33859 Ft...........23.2866 ft/s

James Pierson

10-14-2007, 06:58 PM

I have come to like this vintage look in a design with a paper transition housing the motor mount that extends past the main body tube. This look however is bad for the static margin in shorter designs. I fixed the problem with larger and longer fins that extend past the motor mount itself. I also felt that the fin root needed added strength so I added two 1/8 inch balsa stripes to each fin root edge for reinforcement.

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

Lunar Max (18mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
A8-3..................139.05643 Ft.............17.9696 ft/s
B4-4..................350.26575 Ft.............11.4520 ft/s
B6-4..................357.16207 Ft.............7.3061 ft/s
C6-5..................783.72047 Ft.............9.6429 ft/s

James Pierson

11-24-2007, 10:29 PM

Here is a new design as far as model rocketry goes. Found this a while back searching the net. Looks like the original is missing its name and specs and is now concidered a "Mystery Missile". I did my best to keep this design somewhat to scale, but this particular design proved to be a challenge.

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

USAF Mystery Misile (18mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
A8-3..................190.22802 Ft..............2.9350 ft/s
B4-4..................486.80118 Ft.............15.1615 ft/s
B6-4..................496.07612 Ft.............20.2518 ft/s

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

James Pierson

12-07-2007, 09:53 PM

Here is another design I have had on hold for a while called Regulas Probe. I like the looks of this design but it does lack preformance with the large forward fins set. I guess I have a tendance in designing a larger upper body section for easier and quicker parachute loading. I have always disliked trying to put a 12 inch parachute in a 3/4 inch tube :p . Besides the faster I can reload the quicker I can launch it :D .

Enjoy and Thanks Aagin, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

CPMcGraw

12-09-2007, 08:02 PM

Just a heads-up to all BARCLONE contributors: We have now crossed 31,495 on the hit counter at the BARCLONE website. Even without a recent update (which is coming, Real Soon Now, promise...), there are a lot of good folks looking for new designs to build. I think our past work is still better than some of the newer commercial kits that have come out in the same time frame. Are they ever going to be surprised at what the new website will have to show!

Also, a reminder concerning postings here. On January 1, 2008, this thread will be locked and will not be accepting any further messages. All new messages concerning BARCLONE designs and commentaries need to be posted to the "BARCLONE Designer's Studio" thread. The new thread is already opened for submissions.

James Pierson

12-09-2007, 09:12 PM

Command Confirmed ;) .

Its getting real close to the 2nd Annual 12 Days Before Christmas . We will see if time allows me to pull it off again this year.
As far as any design I have posted, post them all on Barclone. No time for any of that kitting nonsence. Besides I'm just too lazy :D .

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

PS. Can the Barclone Design Studio be made "Sticky" after the first of the year??

James Pierson

12-13-2007, 10:10 PM

Here is a new design I have called the Sky Ace. It has an interesting
combination to make this nose cone. I used the BC-1631 nose cone and an
BR1016S balsa reducer to make this combination. Both are put together
with a 1.5 inch piece of ST-16. I also decided to dress this sci fi design up a bit with
a few 1/8 inch Launch Lugs as well. All Semroc parts also.

2nd Annual

12 days Before Christmas

Enjoy and Merry Christmas to ALL, JP. :D

Sky Ace (18mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
B4-4..................313.81365 Ft.............13.1748 ft/s
B6-4..................323.18307 Ft.............9.0471 ft/s
C6-5..................804.97047 Ft.............5.4519 ft/s

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

James Pierson

12-14-2007, 08:29 PM

This design I call the Exodus Explorer. This one was kind of a happy accident. I wanted to add a small section of body tube after the lower paper transition and accidentally added it between them. I liked this different look, so I added some fins between the transitions.
All Semroc parts.

11 Days Before Christmas

Enjoy and Merry Christmas to ALL, JP

Exodus Explorer (18mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
B4-4..................307.31365 Ft.............16.6176 ft/s
B6-4..................315.40650 Ft.............12.4201 ft/s
C6-5..................745.52165 Ft.............7.7561 ft/s

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

.

CPMcGraw

12-14-2007, 11:32 PM

...This design I call the Exodus Explorer...

James, your design work just keeps getting better. I wish my rusty brain cells could show half as much creativity. Looking forward to seeing the remaining designs for the series.

James Pierson

12-15-2007, 07:56 PM

Thanks Craig. I am glad you enjoy the designs. A compliment coming from a fellow designer means alot ;) . I am afraid to say that I will save the best for last though :p .
I am really looking forward to the next Barclone update and the new website look. Keep up the creative work on your end as well. My brain cells couldn't handle all that programing :eek: .

This design I have called the Rogue Dart. It has tube fins that are
tucked in front of the rear transition. This makes for a design that is
not very areodynamic and the flight specs show it. I guess its more for
looks that preformance.

10 Days Before Christmas

Enjoy and Merry Christmas to ALL, JP

Rogue Dart (18mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
B4-4..................256.77887 Ft.............24.3273 ft/s
B6-4..................265.67454 Ft.............19.3726 ft/s
C6-5..................684.16339 Ft..............8.2654 ft/s

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

.

Ltvscout

12-15-2007, 08:09 PM

As pre-usual, James, you have some great designs. Keep up the good work!

James Pierson

12-16-2007, 06:12 PM

Thanks Scott, here is an upscale of one of your favorites. If the truth
be known you are the one with the true talent. I thank you for all your
good work here at Ye Olde as well, JP.

This design is an upscale of the Cargo Starr Tannsport 13mm design. I
finally found a combination fo tubes to make this design possible in an
upscale. Using three St-7 in a row I found that the ST-225 will surround
the tubes alomost perfectly. Looks like the Centuri fellas manys years
ago were thinking ahead or could it be Carl's doing? I wonder?

9 Days Before Christmas

Enjoy and Merry Christmas to ALL, JP

Cargo Starr Transport Upscale (18mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
B4-4......................264.04167 Ft. ...........20.7219 ft/s
B6-4......................275.50623 Ft.............15.2179 ft/s
C6-5......................787.47704 Ft.............16.2046 ft/s

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

.

James Pierson

12-17-2007, 07:32 PM

This next design is a 13mm design called the Marx Space Ranger. Its
inspiration was a vintage toy by the Marx company I found on ebay. I am
using the ST-3630 body tube for the ring fin. Its a good tube to use as a ring fin as its a large size tube and still somewhat lightwieght. This one should prove to be a fun flyer. Its surely falls in the Schoolyard Sounder catagory with the A10T-3 and maybe the Backyarder with the 1/2A3T-2.

8 Days Before Christmas

Enjoy and Merry Christmas to ALL, JP

Marx Space Ranger (13mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
1/2A3T-2...............92.22492 Ft..............3.2287 ft/s
A10T-3................243.81945 Ft.............2.5265 ft/s

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

James Pierson

12-18-2007, 07:27 PM

This design has sort of a vintage sci-fi look to it. I call it the
Stardust Voyager. It is at about this piont in my designs that I started
getting away from the ST-7 tube as a main body tube. After flying many
rockets with John at his Dicovery Bay, WA I decided I did not like trying
to stuff a 12 inch parachute in those 3/4 inch tubes. This design uses
an ST-9 tube but I have noticed that there are not many choices in nose
cone with that size. My personal favorite is now the ST-10 tube which
solves both of the problems above.

7 Days Before Christmas

Enjoy and Merry Christmas to ALL, JP

Stardust Voyager (18mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
B4-4..................300.86188 Ft.............17.9559 ft/s
B6-4..................307.49639 Ft.............13.8877 ft/s
C6-5..................702.78871 Ft.............12.7716 ft/s

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

.

Ltvscout

12-18-2007, 09:03 PM

My personal favorite is now the ST-10 tube which
solves both of the problems above..
Ya, mine too. But only because it's used on my favorite rocket, the Payloader II. ;) Here's to hoping I can order a Payloader II kit from Semroc by next Christmas with my Christmas discount. :D

Chris_Timm

12-19-2007, 01:34 PM

Stardust Voyager.

Seems a natural for multi-staging....................:)

James Pierson

12-19-2007, 06:58 PM

Chris_Timm Quote:
Seems a natural for multi-staging.................... :)
Multi-Satging sound good Chris, some day I need to figure out how to design it in Rocksim. Come to think of it I have never even built as 2 stage kit. Gotta do that ;) .

Here is another Starfighter looking design I call Space Eagle 1. I used
the BC-1043 nose cone with some fins for added shape. Also dressed this
design up with a few L-115 as guns mounts. All in all not the fight specs
did not seem to suffer too much with the added parts.

6 Days Before Christmas

Enjoy and Merry Christmas to ALL, JP

Space Eagle 1 (18mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
B4-4......................361.63386 Ft...............5.9312 ft/s
B6-4......................372.27690 Ft...............0.7259 ft/s
C6-5......................894.07480 Ft...............14.4585 ft/s

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

James Pierson

12-20-2007, 07:59 PM

I have dedided to go ahead and post these next two designs now, as your feedback on them will mean a great deal to me. We all seem to get so busy as Christmas gets close. Besides I am just busting at the seams to show them to you.

I call these next two designs Tranquility 1 (18mm) and Tranquility 7 (24mm). I wanted to do these designs for all you Olde Timers that remember the yesteryears of model rocketry with a modern twist :D . I hope these two will meet your expectations. Yep, you guess it, Saturn looking Pod Poppers.

These two design have recently move to the top of my built pile. These designs have the same basic build technique as the Six Shooter, however I managed to redesign some portions and reduce alot of unnecessary parts. I won't go into wordy part details so here they are.

5 Days Before Christmas

Enjoy and Merry Christmas to ALL, JP

Tranquility 1 (18mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
B4-4..................305.97835 Ft.............19.3948 ft/s
B6-4..................312.25722 Ft.............15.2013 ft/s
C6-5..................705.53478 Ft.............17.0373 ft/s

Tranquility 7 (24mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
D12-5.................767.02428 Ft.............4.2437 ft/s

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

.

Ltvscout

12-20-2007, 08:47 PM

CPMcGraw

12-20-2007, 08:53 PM

...I call these next two designs Tranquility 1 (18mm) and Tranquility 7 (24mm)...Yep, you guess it, Saturn looking Pod Poppers.

Interesting twist, indeed! :)

Ltvscout

12-20-2007, 09:00 PM

Interesting twist, indeed! :)
Ok, M. Night Shamalamadingdong. :D

James Pierson

12-21-2007, 07:45 PM

Ltvscout Quote:
Cool!
CPMcGraw Quote:
Interesting twist, indeed!

Well, there's some posative feedback from a couple of Olde Timer's :D .
I must be getting old too, I had to edit cause I forgot to attach the pictures and files :o .

This next design I started doing redesign of the Commic Poo and ended up
with this design called Star Bloom. I have been trying to keep my margins
at or near a 1.5 margin instead of just a 1.00 to help ward off the
wieght and simulation errors. Simmulation wieghts seems to be on the
lighter side than actual built model wieght.

4 Days Before Christmas

Enjoy and Merry Christmas to ALL, JP

Star Bloom (18mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
B4-4..................265.53150 Ft.............21.9031 ft/s
B6-4..................275.12959 Ft.............16.6965 ft/s
C6-5..................717.91995 Ft.............4.0179 ft/s

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

.

CPMcGraw

12-21-2007, 07:48 PM

...This next design...

...Seems to be missing a few files... :eek:

...And suddenly they appear as if out of nowhere! :D :o

Sounds like the story of the new website ad nauseum...

Just ask Scott...:D

James Pierson

12-21-2007, 07:57 PM

James Pierson Quote:
I must be getting old too, I had to edit cause I forgot to attach the pictures and files .
Remember, I am over forty now and am sufferin from Dain Bramage. At least thats my excuse and I am sticking to it :D .

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

CPMcGraw

12-21-2007, 09:21 PM

Remember, I am over forty now and am sufferin from Dain Bramage. At least thats my excuse and I am sticking to it :D .

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

We're in the same leaky boat, James; and I'm bailing with a rusty bucket... :o

James Pierson

12-22-2007, 01:05 PM

Ok, so this design is a little on the strange side. Nothing out of the ordinary for me though. I think my inspiration must have been some Star Trek probe, don't remember. I called it the Warp Nacell and I am fairly sure its an original. I changed the Static Margin reference on this design to Max. Frontial Diameter cause of the large upper BT. I guess :confused: that the rule on this is that if the design has a larger BT section than the nose cone diameter one should use this option for simmulation accuracy.

3 Days Befor Christmas

Enjoy and Merry Christmas to ALL, JP

Warp Nacell (18mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
B4-4..................296.28613 Ft.............19.5169 ft/s
B6-4..................303.61213 Ft.............14.9711 ft/s
C6-5..................697.70823 Ft.............14.1918 ft/s

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

.

James Pierson

12-23-2007, 11:04 AM

Here is another sci-fi design with the forward aggressive fins. I call it the Sky Phanton. A person must enjoy working with paper transitions if you want to build this one. Also decided to go with the 5 fin look even though 3 would be enough for stability.

2 Days Before Christmas

Enjoy and Merry Christmas to ALL, JP

Sky Phantom (18mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
B4-4..................305.94259 Ft.............15.7319 ft/s
B6-4..................314.94849 Ft.............11.5199 ft/s
C6-5..................778.82546 Ft..............8.2046 ft/s

James Pierson
NAR# 77907
.

James Pierson

12-24-2007, 01:23 PM

Here is another ring fin nightmare for you folks. Also included a strange mount with he nose cone as well. Its definitely not designed for aerodynamics and I call it Rigel 9. I ran the ST-7 all the way through the ST-13 to make top section and for smooth parachute ejection.

1 Day Before Christmas

Enjoy and Merry Christmas to ALL, JP
Until next year ;) ,JP.

Rigel 9 (18mm)
Launch guide length: 36.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
B4-4..................324.42866 Ft.............10.1793 ft/s
B6-4..................334.85613 Ft..............5.9053 ft/s
C6-5..................856.10780 Ft.............16.3976 ft/s

James Pierson
NAR# 77907