Payload rocket for camera conversion?

[tfischer]

Not quite sure what forum this belongs in. Please move at will...

In my quest to aquire/build a videocam rocket, I'm exploring options for a DIY solution, possibly using an Aiptek Pencam or similar. Thus, I'm looking for recommendations on a good, low-mid power (B-D engine) payloader rocket that I can relativly easilly adapt for such a use.

My criterion so far would be: Basic rocket (don't want to waste weight on "frills" or aesthetic elements, 3/4FNC isn fine), gets decent height, preferably 2" diameter (or larger) body tube (camera is about 1.1" wide, I believe) and not too expensive (<$20 preferably))

The Semroc Golliath and Sunward Payloader look promising. Comments on those, and other options? I'm having a hard time searching the net or EMRR for "payloader rockets". Even Semroc's site doesn't make it clear that the Golliath is a payloader...

Oh yeah, If anyone has any links to info on how others have done this, I'd be interested. I've seen a few (like the CVS cam one) but most of them just show the video, not really details on the construction. And many are high-powered, which I don't want to get into right now.

Anyway, thanks for all your suggestions and for putting up with my newbie/BAR attitude and enthusiasm!

-Tim

[mojo1986]

Try this site:

http://www.usalaptoprepair.com/rocketcam/

[Solomoriah]

I've been planning to build a payload section for my Baby Berthas (standard and 2x cluster) to carry such a camera. Haven't made any progress recently though.

[tfischer]

THANKS for that link -- that's the exact camera I was thinking of using. It was also interesting to see someone make their own payload rocket (I haven't done much in the way of scratch-build or piecing stuff together).

Definitely gives me some ideas.

-Tim

[tbzep]

I used the Aiptek camera for one of my quick and dirty projects. Here's the thread, though I didn't post anything much about how I built it. It's a modified Stormcaster. I don't like the fin placement on the kit so I moved them back to the rear like an Alpha. It's first flight was with a D12-5. The flight was fine but the bottom half of the rocket landed high enough in a tree that I couldn't retrieve it.

I took some scrap BT-60 and fins from a Screamin Mimi that I cannibalized for the nosecone and built a twin 18mm mount for added versatility. If you go with a single engine, you will need a C11-3 at minimum, so I built the twin mount in order to fly with two B6-4's because C11 motors are scarce around here. I eventually plan to build another 24mm booster, but for now I don't really have a place big enough to fly that high.

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=2173

[tfischer]

I've been doing more research on this, and slowly finding more sites on the web (my initial googling didn't turn up much (too many Oracle hits), but once you start finding good sites, they often link to other good ones and give you ideas on better search terms to boot.

In particular, I'm now considering going with a wireless scheme (e.g. Boostervision, or one of the cheap "spy cams" available on eBay) instead of a self-contained unit. Any thoughts on this scheme would be appreciated.

-Tim

[tbzep]

I've been doing more research on this, and slowly finding more sites on the web (my initial googling didn't turn up much (too many Oracle hits), but once you start finding good sites, they often link to other good ones and give you ideas on better search terms to boot.

In particular, I'm now considering going with a wireless scheme (e.g. Boostervision, or one of the cheap "spy cams" available on eBay) instead of a self-contained unit. Any thoughts on this scheme would be appreciated.

-Tim

I also have a cheap eBay unit. It's heavier than the Aiptek camera because uses a 9v battery and has heavy RCA connectors. Its video is better (at least double the framerate) but there are some occasional dropouts and you have problems with frequency shift as the battery drops in voltage. The Boostervision unit will be better because it has its frequency locked regardless of voltage, which will take care of the frequency shift and some dropout problems. The eBay units aren't FCC approved either. I got mine to do some experimenting with and plan to upgrade to a Boostervision or equivalent frequency locked transmitter whenever I get back to fooling with downlinked video again.

[tfischer]

I also have a cheap eBay unit. It's heavier than the Aiptek camera because uses a 9v battery and has heavy RCA connectors. Its video is better (at least double the framerate) but there are some occasional dropouts and you have problems with frequency shift as the battery drops in voltage. The Boostervision unit will be better because it has its frequency locked regardless of voltage, which will take care of the frequency shift and some dropout problems. The eBay units aren't FCC approved either. I got mine to do some experimenting with and plan to upgrade to a Boostervision or equivalent frequency locked transmitter whenever I get back to fooling with downlinked video again.

According to our digital postal scale, which is really accurate, 2 AAA cells weigh about .8 oz, and a 9v cell 1.6 oz. But, the Boostervision weights .5 oz, compared to the Aiptek Trio's 1.6 oz (both without batteries), so unless you were to strip the Aiptek more naked than the stock camera, the Boostervision would still win out in weight with batteries (although it's pretty much a wash).

This auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/2-4G-Mini-Wireless-CCTV-Surveillance-Spy-Camera-1847_W0QQitemZ190153651478QQihZ009QQcategoryZ48632QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) sure looks like the same camera as the Boostervision, at a lower price... And this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290162137501&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Fsofocus%3Dbs%26sbrftog%3D1%26from%3DR10%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D290162137501%26sacat%3D-1%2526catref%253DC6%26sargn%3D-1%2526saslc%253D2%26sadis%3D200%26fpos%3D55447%26sabfmts%3D1%26saobfmts%3Dinsif%26ftrt%3D1%26ftrv%3D1%26saprclo%3D%26saprchi%3D%26fsop%3D1%2526fsoo%253D1%26coaction%3Dcompare%26copagenum%3D1%26coentrypage%3Dsearch%26fgtp%3D%26fvi%3D1) is even cheaper (counting shipping) and appears to be very similar...

Thanks for helping me keep the brainstorming juices going! PLEASE feel free to pick holes in my logic at will, I'm new at this!
-Tim

[tbzep]

The cases may be the same, but the Chinese don't give a rip about patents and will use the same casings for their cheap knockoffs. The frequency they use is not what is advertised and isn't legal for use in the USA. I'm just telling you what you will get yourself into if you get the eBay version. I have the same RX casing as the second link you posted, but I have the 1,000mW TX making my unit considerably heavier. Will the FCC come and get you? No, but the eBay version won't work as well as the Boostervision unit. If you just want a cheap unit to do a proof-of-concept model that has a high chance of being lost, go for the eBay unit. If you have a place that's safe to fly and you think you'll use it often, get the better quality Boostervision stuff.

As for weight, you have to factor in a housing to mount the little camera, etc. where you don't have to do much more than cutting a hole in the side of the BT for the Aiptek. The point is wichever you decide to use, a B6-4 is not likely enough for it.

[tfischer]

I do appreciate the feedback!

As for the engines, I don't have any requirement for a B6-4 (not sure if I somehow implied that). D is fine, the capability for E is also fine although I'd rather not be restricted to that so I can actually afford to shoot it off occasionally :)

I never know what to think about the eBay stuff. I'm unfamiliar with Boostervision... I know in a lot of hobbies (call it a "Widget"), orders it, calls it a "Hobby-Widget", and jacks up the price... So it's never clear if you're getting a "knock off" or "the exact same thing, minus the 'hobby' designator"...

The boostervision one isn't that much higher than my first link, so I'm fine with going in that direction...

As for a housing, at least one website (http://www.eduweb.com/rockets/index.html ) used clear packing tape, period. So it doesn't have to be heavy...

-Tim

[tbzep]

If you look closely at the eBay stuff, there's a tuning knob. As your transmitter battery gets used, its voltage gradually drops and you will have to continuously retune the receiver to get clear images. The Boostervision unit has a PLL circuit that keeps the transmission frequency locked. Take a close look at the Boostervision receiver and you will notice that it only has two RCA jacks and no tuning knobs. :)

As for Boostervision, the owner is Art Upton and he's a member here and at TRF.

Whatever you choose to start playing around with, have fun!

BTW, here's my Cineroc Omega clone on it's maiden flight. It was flown single stage on a C11-3.

Video (at TRF) (http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=143504#post143504)

Here is it's last flight....

Photos (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=14488&postcount=7)

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=1335&highlight=cineroc

[tfischer]

Thanks much for the info. PLL is definitely the way to go (I've dabbled in amature FM broadcasting so I know about that). And I'm always happy to support fellow forum members (I'm new here, but have been a member of many other forums for my myriad of 'other' hobbies :-)

-Tim

[snaquin]

After reading the thread where tbzep flew the PenCam in his Stormcaster I just couldn't resist anymore and bought two of those little refurb cameras from Aiptek. Purchased them last weekend and they arrived today via UPS.

I was originally going to build a camera payload section for a two stage rocket built from fin cans and left over parts from a couple of Estes Longshot and Eliminator rockets. After trying the cameras in several different tube sizes in Estes and Semroc, I happened to try a camera inside a LOC / Precision TC-1.52 4" long tube coupler. The camera slides in all the way up to the lens and stops. I'm thinking of using a Weasel kit to boost the camera by cutting off the nose cone shoulder and cutting a small slot in the cone to slide over the camera lens and having the tube coupler extend slightly out of the airframe to act as the new nose cone shoulder. I'll plug the bottom side with a bulkhead and screw eye. The camera can't move to the rear because the lens acts as a stop and it fits so tight in the tube I doubt it will move forward but I'll secure the nose cone with a small screw or PML plastic rivet.

I'm going to try and start on this tomorrow ..... :)

.

[Thomas Malthouse]

There is actually a book that essentially has these projects in it, along with others. The link is here. (http://books.google.com/books?id=FYyxfCLpqWkC) I have it and it is great. Also, for a nice little 10 sq. foot whoosh-bang, try the hydrogen fuel rocket in it. It also gives instructions for a payloader that burns D12 and E-something.

[Bob Kaplow]

My criterion so far would be: Basic rocket (don't want to waste weight on "frills" or aesthetic elements, 3/4FNC isn fine), gets decent height, preferably 2" diameter (or larger) body tube (camera is about 1.1" wide, I believe) and not too expensive (<$20 preferably))

I've done a couple pencams now, all using the same generic 3FNC booster. The rocket was actually one I got when someone else got out of the hobby. LOC 1.6" tube (BT-60 equivalent), 24mm MMT, 2 rip stop nylon chutes. The payload section is the clear plastic fluorescent lighting shield tube. A couple wraps of tape on standard nose cones and couplers will fit this tube. I use a rotary tool to make holes for the lens and buttons.

And one useful tip: use different color chutes on the booster and camera, so you can tell which one you're chasing. When I fly I have someone assigned to the orange chute, and I get the red chute.

[luke strawwalker]

I do appreciate the feedback!

As for the engines, I don't have any requirement for a B6-4 (not sure if I somehow implied that). D is fine, the capability for E is also fine although I'd rather not be restricted to that so I can actually afford to shoot it off occasionally :)

I never know what to think about the eBay stuff. I'm unfamiliar with Boostervision... I know in a lot of hobbies (call it a "Widget"), orders it, calls it a "Hobby-Widget", and jacks up the price... So it's never clear if you're getting a "knock off" or "the exact same thing, minus the 'hobby' designator"...

The boostervision one isn't that much higher than my first link, so I'm fine with going in that direction...

As for a housing, at least one website (http://www.eduweb.com/rockets/index.html ) used clear packing tape, period. So it doesn't have to be heavy...

-Tim

The boostervision cam setup is top flight goods... My brother and I went in partners on one last year... He's been running it in his RC monster trucks while I'm working on the rocket problem... :) We've got some REALLY neat 'driver's seat view' footage from taping the cam inside the body of his monster truck, but the lexan bodies are perfectly clear, so some are a bit hazy. We moved the camera down under the frame and got some absolutely amazing shots, and even moved it to the back looking forward past the front tire, suspension, and driveshaft and got some really amazing vids there too as he 'took the jumps' on his personal RC dirt track in the backyard... He was taking jumps and getting up to 3-4 feet of air and 20-30 foot lengths and the pic was pretty much spot on, despite our rather lackluster setup (put the VCR on the windowsill with the reciever sitting on top of it, so when he was on one end of the track the house was actually in the way. He took it out on the highway and got it up to full speed and the pic didn't drop til it was nearly a block away, with the WHOLE house between it and the road... This was just with the duck antenna on the receiver, not using the patch antenna we bought at the same time.

The guy that sells them, Art Upton, is here on some of these forums, either here, TRF, or RP.

Good luck on your project! OL JR :)

[Ltvscout]

The boostervision cam setup is top flight goods...

The guy that sells them, Art Upton, is here on some of these forums, either here, TRF, or RP.
Yes, Art is a member here. He sells some quality products.

[CPMcGraw]

About five (or six?) years ago, a very similar discussion came up on the OldRockets list, and it led to the development of the Cherokee Double-D. One of the applications it was intended for was the lofting of a BoosterVision camera, and I think several copies of the design have been built and possibly flown, though not with the camera. I've just updated the design to try to gain a little more kick off the rod, and I think the version I just posted over in the Designers Studio section of BARCLONE might be workable.

The best configuration is D-D, but with three 1/2A3-2 "kickstarters" attached as pods to the outside of the booster. It gives the rocket a clean boost on a 48" x 3/16" rod (actually gets to flight V in 37"), and deploys the parachute up around 1700' with Dv numbers between 9 and 23 FPS. Surprisingly, when the full A3 and the A10 are used, the deployment numbers are in excess of 30 FPS. The 1/2A3-2T was the all-around best compromise. Needless to say, the deployment charge of the pods needs to be vented out of the tubes to prevent kick-out (although if you're not flying at sanctioned meets, just let them blow :D ).

Here's the LINK (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=63175&postcount=1) to the post with the RKT file.

[Mark II]

I designed the Superior Flea to eventually be a video camera rocket. (Link here (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=4850).) The payload section isn't real big, but it ought to be able to accommodate a Boostervision Gearcam with no problem.

MarkII

[mycrofte]

There is a new digital record cam out, that I can't find now. It is about the size of a Zippo lighter. I remember it being 1.1 inches wide. Which should fit easy in a 50 or 55 tube. It was advertised at an online R/C shop for attaching to the bottom of an airplane.

[CPMcGraw]

There is a new digital record cam out, that I can't find now. It is about the size of a Zippo lighter. I remember it being 1.1 inches wide. Which should fit easy in a 50 or 55 tube. It was advertised at an online R/C shop for attaching to the bottom of an airplane.

Hobby-Lobby's FlyCamOne MkII (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/video-camera.htm) . Now at a reduced price - $75.

It's only 1 oz, records continuously for 30 min, and is rechargeable via USB. Software for both XP and Vista.

Another rocket that could be converted to video duty is the Estes D-Region Tomahawk. That blow-molded nosecone could hold a couple of these cameras, and the engine mount is already set up for 24mm engines.

[spacecenturion]

Hey all....
This is what I am thinking of trying (one day soon, really need to get my hobby room in order, build some more rockets, pay bills, etc).....

http://cgi.ebay.ca/5mm-Pinhole-Mini-Spy-Device-DVR-Voice-Recorder-4GB-USB_W0QQitemZ220375748088QQihZ012QQcategoryZ48632QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.ca/4GB-spy-camcorder-camera-recorder-DVR-GIFT_W0QQitemZ180335592961QQihZ008QQcategoryZ48632QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I've included a pic to make is easier..if the links above do not work for you, search for "4gb dvr".

This one (above, both seem to be the same) seems to have the lens on a small PCB/ribbon cable system away from the main PCB, which I thought would be easyto cram through a tue wall.

The length is 85mm, which is 3.35inches, and as you can see, the width is small. It should fit in a BT-50!

There is also a 2mm camera version, which is even smaller, 70mmX17mm = 2.76X0.67"

http://cgi.ebay.ca/2mm-Pinhole-Spy-Pen-Device-DVR-Voice-Recorder-4GB-USB_W0QQitemZ220375748090QQihZ012QQcategoryZ48632QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I figure these are all self contained, has a two hour battery life, and apparently has 5 hour recording time. Not too sure how good the camera is, must be around the 1Megapixel size.

Video Resolution: 325 X 288 Pixels，FPS: 10 F/S, BR:113Kbps;
Video file size: >500KB per min;

Has anyone tried one of these???

[mycrofte]

That FlyCamOne2 looks good with a rez of 640 X 480. But it is 1.5" wide. The one I was looking at was 1.1" wide. The biggest rocket I have is a BT-55. Wait a minute. That Red Max I have is a bigger tube. I may just have to modify it this weekend...