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Ltvscout
06-14-2005, 09:04 PM
I started this thread with the intent that others will add to it. I'm sure I will add to it as well. :D

Carl, since I now know that you have HTC-7B's ;) , how about when you get to producing the Black Widow that you maybe either offer two different kits (the old, original design with the bigger fins for the booster and the "new" later design), or offer one kit with fins for both models so the modeler can decide which one to build?

A Fish Named Wallyum
06-14-2005, 09:29 PM
Mach 10 :cool:
Super Kits :cool:

rkt2k1
06-14-2005, 11:32 PM
Fighter Fleet :cool:

Carl@Semroc
06-14-2005, 11:39 PM
I started this thread with the intent that others will add to it. I'm sure I will add to it as well. :D

Carl, since I now know that you have HTC-7B's ;) , how about when you get to producing the Black Widow that you maybe either offer two different kits (the old, original design with the bigger fins for the booster and the "new" later design), or offer one kit with fins for both models so the modeler can decide which one to build?

Two? I have three variations. Danny Almond has almost convinced me the earliest version should be done first. So many choices!

Ltvscout
06-14-2005, 11:43 PM
Two? I have three variations. Danny Almond has almost convinced me the earliest version should be done first. So many choices!
I didn't know there were three. What are the differences between the three?

You still talk to Danny? I thought he dropped out of sight awhile back.

Carl@Semroc
06-14-2005, 11:44 PM
Mach 10 :cool:
Super Kits :cool:

Mach 10 - waiting for BFTP, but working on fins in the mean time.

Super Kits - Loss of the C5-3 makes these much harder to do now. That 5 pound kick is really needed for larger kits like the Super Kits and ThunderRoc.

Ltvscout
06-14-2005, 11:47 PM
I've seen you doing some FSI kits as well. How about a version of the FSI Javelin and Intrepid?

Ltvscout
06-14-2005, 11:48 PM
Mach 10 - waiting for BFTP, but working on fins in the mean time.

Super Kits - Loss of the C5-3 makes these much harder to do now. That 5 pound kick is really needed for larger kits like the Super Kits and ThunderRoc.
No worries. Quest has their 18mm D motor coming out. Plenty 'o kick with that one. ;)

Carl@Semroc
06-14-2005, 11:50 PM
I didn't know there were three. What are the differences between the three?

I will have to look at them again, but the earliest had the gliding booster, no passport. Second was balsa nose cone version with passport and third was plastic, better decals.

You still talk to Danny? I thought he dropped out of sight awhile back.
He lives in Sheryl's hometown, but I have not talked with him in a while. He is an encyclopedia of model rocketry. Probably a good time to get back in touch with him.

A Fish Named Wallyum
06-15-2005, 12:08 AM
Mach 10 - waiting for BFTP.

Me too. (Insert "growing old" smilie here.)

A Fish Named Wallyum
06-15-2005, 05:01 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5981951108&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1
:cool: :D

Ltvscout
06-15-2005, 06:05 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5981951108&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1
:cool: :D
Hehe. Ya, we want one of these, Carl!

ARTU
06-21-2005, 04:03 PM
Hehe. Ya, we want one of these, Carl!

I have the cone still for my old Centrui Little Joe II.

I need to get off my duff and find a tube to build a replacement for it.

I wonder how many times that kit has been resold on Ebay in the last 5 years :-)

ARTU
06-21-2005, 04:05 PM
I'd like the see some of the Enerjet line of rocket kits.

Nike-Ram
Athena
Nike-Smoke
etc..

Ltvscout
06-21-2005, 04:47 PM
I have the cone still for my old Centrui Little Joe II.

I need to get off my duff and find a tube to build a replacement for it.

I wonder how many times that kit has been resold on Ebay in the last 5 years :-)
Buy an Estes Mercury-Atlas off of eBay or out of your inventory if you have one at home. They're the same tube. The hard part is the wraps/chrome.

Ltvscout
06-21-2005, 04:48 PM
I'd like the see some of the Enerjet line of rocket kits.
Nike-Smoke

With a working smoke disperser! ;)

SEL
06-26-2005, 02:18 PM
I will have to look at them again, but the earliest had the gliding booster, no passport. Second was balsa nose cone version with passport and third was plastic, better decals..


Huh... that solves a mystery. I have an old built up that came with some others I picked up
on ebay. It has the stubby fins and balsa cone with no passport. I just figured that whoever
built it did't use it. It's in my 'needs to be sanded down' pile (house paint with a heavy-handed brush).

Sean

EchoVictor
06-27-2005, 11:52 PM
The discussion thread on the Taurus got me thinking about how a lot of folks seem to buy parts from Semroc to clone an old favorite. That let me to an idea....

How about a Semroc "Designer's Special"? It could even be patterned (number/type of parts) after the old Centuri one....

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/centuri81/81cen34.html

Later,
EV

Ltvscout
06-28-2005, 08:47 AM
The discussion thread on the Taurus got me thinking about how a lot of folks seem to buy parts from Semroc to clone an old favorite. That let me to an idea....

How about a Semroc "Designer's Special"? It could even be patterned (number/type of parts) after the old Centuri one....

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/centuri81/81cen34.html

Later,
EV
That's a great idea!

How about it, Carl?

dtomko
06-28-2005, 09:03 AM
I have the cone still for my old Centrui Little Joe II.

I need to get off my duff and find a tube to build a replacement for it.

I wonder how many times that kit has been resold on Ebay in the last 5 years :-)

Do you have the escape tower parts also? That and the cone are the hardest stuff to clone. Maybe you could "lend" it to Mike at Moldin' Oldies :D
Wraps could be made from Evergreen ribbed styrene sheet, and Trim Monokote or BareMetal Foil for the silver.
I wonder if Estes has the mods for this. They obviously can make the BTs.

ARTU
06-28-2005, 11:13 AM
Do you have the escape tower parts also? That and the cone are the hardest stuff to clone. Maybe you could "lend" it to Mike at Moldin' Oldies :D
Wraps could be made from Evergreen ribbed styrene sheet, and Trim Monokote or BareMetal Foil for the silver.
I wonder if Estes has the mods for this. They obviously can make the BTs.

I have the main nose cone and tower lattice work, but not the tower cone or tube.

They are hiding in my father's house along with lot of other tresures I have yet to re-discover some day.

I offered to loan it to Mike, But Scott said he already had one on loan.

I've been waitin' to hear someday about Mike offering one.

I really am looking for a body tube source other then the Atlas I could use.

I just need to lookup the atlas's body tube size to find one, But I'm so busy doing so many things latly, I might get to it by the time I retire, he he... :rolleyes:

CPMcGraw
06-28-2005, 04:20 PM
How about a Semroc "Designer's Special"? It could even be patterned (number/type of parts) after the old Centuri one....

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/centuri81/81cen34.html

That's a great idea!

How about it, Carl?

I like that idea, too!

Craig...

A Fish Named Wallyum
06-28-2005, 04:35 PM
I like that idea, too!

Craig...

Yeah, baby!

Eagle3
06-28-2005, 09:31 PM
Yeah, baby!

Sounds like a winner of an idea to me!

Carl@Semroc
06-29-2005, 12:33 AM
That's a great idea!

How about it, Carl?
We want to do a line of Custon Assortments, but do not have the large chute yet. We also have not had time to do a manual. The ones we are looking at closely are on Centuri 1971 Pg 56-57 (http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/centuri71d/71dcen56.html).

What are some ideas for a "Dream Designer's Special"? (Besides at least one of everything in a huge box for $19.99 postpaid?)

stefanj
06-29-2005, 12:17 PM
I think a good designer's special should allow the purchaser to build at least 3 - 4 models, at least to of which are somewhat exotic; e.g., a two stager, a boost glider, or a payload model.

CPMcGraw
06-29-2005, 12:19 PM
Have different levels of assortments. I think Centuri had things set up like this in the good old days. :cool:

Centuri had three between 1968 and 1971 (Beginner's, Designer's, and Experimenter's), with tubes that were pre-cut to smaller lengths instead of just 18" lengths. The 18" tubes allow for more flexibility...

I was thinking along the same lines, though. Have at least one assortment for smaller models (ST-5, ST-7, ST-8, ST-10), and another for large models (ST-13, ST-16...). Maybe even have one Ultra Large set with a couple or three of every (commonly used) part from Series 16 down, for folks who just want to stock up their workshops... :D

Other suggestions might include tube-only packages, with one-each, three-each, and five-each of ST-5 through ST-16, 18" long.

Craig McGraw

Eagle3
06-29-2005, 12:26 PM
Using the old Centuri specials as an example is a great idea!



What are some ideas for a "Dream Designer's Special"? (Besides at least one of everything in a huge box for $19.99 postpaid?)

If you put some fin stock in the box then how about a sheet of some fin templates? Even use the old Centuri one.

How about requesting plans using Semroc parts and putting a short Plans Booklet together? Craig already has a headstart on that. :)

Generic decals.

Paper reducer kits

stefanj
06-29-2005, 03:04 PM
A plan book would be a must. In addition to a representative plans, it could have rules of thumb for designing simple models (e.g, fins on the rear, body tube eight times longer than diameter).

Paper shroud templates are an excellent idea. Even the degraded Estes designer's special still has that set of adaptors. In addition to transitions between body tubes, you could use a transition as a cone fin.

Notions:

Include an extra sheet of thin balsa, plus a balsa stick that could be used as the main spar of a boost glider OR, cut up, as decorative channels on a scale-like bird.

Include a cutting diagram for angled tube fins.

EchoVictor
06-29-2005, 03:14 PM
How about enough parts to make all of these....

Centaur
http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/centuri71d/71dcen38.html

Vector V and Groove Tube
http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/centuri74/74cen14.html

Taurus
http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/centuri74/74cen46.html

Later,
EV

dtomko
06-29-2005, 03:36 PM
I love the "launch many times" line in some of the Centuri catalog decriptions! Sure beats those "launch only once" Estes models :rolleyes:
I'm all for parts packages, but Semroc has so many different size tubes and cones that I find I can custom order whatever kits I want to clone.

Besides, if we ask nicely enough, Carl may do laser-cut fin sets and decals :)
Drew Tomko

Ltvscout
06-29-2005, 08:33 PM
How about enough parts to make all of these....

Centaur
http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/centuri71d/71dcen38.html

Vector V and Groove Tube
http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/centuri74/74cen14.html

Taurus
http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/centuri74/74cen46.html

Later,
EV
Heh, my guess is that sooner or later these will become Semroc kits. ;)

CPMcGraw
06-29-2005, 08:55 PM
Using the old Centuri specials as an example is a great idea!

If you put some fin stock in the box then how about a sheet of some fin templates? Even use the old Centuri one.

How about requesting plans using Semroc parts and putting a short Plans Booklet together? Craig already has a headstart on that. :)

Generic decals.

Paper reducer kits


Sideline product -- How about a DIY decal sheet pack, maybe three sheets of clear and two of white, so that other BARs don't have to go through the trouble of hunting for the right papers. No acrylic spray, of course -- HazMat restrictions there -- but a simple, usable package of five sheets. Throw a sheet of detailed instructions on "How To Make Decals" into the package, a recommended list of acrylic sprays known to work well, as well as a list of known printers compatable to the product. This list could be maintained on the website, with all of us contributing working combinations from time-to-time.

Carl is welcome to use ANY of the BARCLONE plans for the booklet, any time!

Craig

Carl@Semroc
06-29-2005, 10:15 PM
Heh, my guess is that sooner or later these will become Semroc kits. ;)Good Guess! Looking at the spreadsheet:

KV-12 Centaur 1965 Centuri
KV-42 Taurus 1972 Centuri
KV-44 Vector-V 1972 Centuri

Groove Tube is not on the list, but Sheryl likes it and Bill E. almost has me talked into building an SLS Groove Tube. I had to wait for RockSim 8 to try that one!

Carl@Semroc
06-29-2005, 10:19 PM
Carl is welcome to use ANY of the BARCLONE plans for the booklet, any time!

CraigThanks, Craig. The BARCLONE site is a great resource.

bob352
06-29-2005, 10:27 PM
High,
First post to the forum, how about...Estes Astron Constellation?

A Fish Named Wallyum
06-29-2005, 10:31 PM
Good Guess! Looking at the spreadsheet:

KV-12 Centaur 1965 Centuri
KV-42 Taurus 1972 Centuri
KV-44 Vector-V 1972 Centuri

Groove Tube is not on the list, but Sheryl likes it and Bill E. almost has me talked into building an SLS Groove Tube. I had to wait for RockSim 8 to try that one!

Undoubtedly because of my success with said Groove Tube. :confused: Invest heavily in Play-Doh stock. Mine needed a ton of nose weight. :D

CPMcGraw
06-29-2005, 10:51 PM
Undoubtedly because of my success with said Groove Tube. :confused: Invest heavily in Play-Doh stock. Mine needed a ton of nose weight. :D

Interesting...

I have the Quest Totally Tubular, and it flies great with no additional nose weight. Arrow-straight launch, no wiggles.

The Groove Tube uses ST-8, which is larger in diameter. Is the Groove Tube short-coupled (shorter in overall length) compared to the TT?

Craig

Vanel
06-29-2005, 11:06 PM
A friend of mine has the Totally Tubular, and it flew squirrelly on a C6-5 - had to add a little nose weight to straighten it out. I suspect he used too much glue in attaching the tube fins.

I like the idea of a Designer's special from Semroc, especially if Carl could include some generic decal sheets and a few balsa transitions. Decal paper would be OK, but I have real trouble producing decals, and from watching the forums, it sounds like a lot of you experts do too. I would hate to have to purchase an ALPS printer to make use of the decal paper :p Maybe there could be generics like those Centuri and Estes used to offer?

My Semroc order arrived today with its usual promptness. I'm going to have to stop cloning so I can build some of these kits I have - backlog is up to 55 now :p But cloning is mucho fun!

Thanks for the goodies Carl!

CPMcGraw
06-29-2005, 11:14 PM
High,
First post to the forum, how about...Estes Astron Constellation?

Hi, Bob!

The Constellation is a beautiful classic model rocket, especially those fins. I have a clone in-progress, needing mostly the inside 'guts' to complete it. When we build Estes clones, most of us tend to use BMS (Balsa Machining Service) components, as Bill Saindon has as complete an inventory of Estes-Dimensioned goodies as one might want. BMS has, for example, the BNC-50X cone that the Constellation requires.

But when we want to build a Centuri clone, most of our needs are met by Carl at SEMROC. He has a catalog of Centuri-Dimensioned components that even Centuri itself never managed to create. The direction of this thread is on Carl's line of parts, and what we would want to see in a new set of "Designer's Specials", similar to what Centuri (and, for that matter, Estes) used to sell. We're all trying to think of what we would like him to include in such a package, as all of us are builders and we love getting Carl's boxes of goodies in the mail! :D

We have a great pair of component resources in these two fellows, and we're trying to support both of them as much as possible. Each provides similar products for us, but it's really nice that one specializes in Estes and the other in Centuri. Maybe if we could get Bill S. to create a similar goodie box with Estes-Dimensioned components... :rolleyes:

Craig McGraw

CPMcGraw
06-29-2005, 11:19 PM
A friend of mine has the Totally Tubular, and it flew squirrelly on a C6-5 - had to add a little nose weight to straighten it out. I suspect he used too much glue in attaching the tube fins.

And I have to admit, I was flying with an A8-3, not a C6-5, so I don't know how mine would have reacted with the additional tail weight. Probably like your friend's TT. I know from the RS numbers that my "No Tube Left Behind" still needed some nose weight, even though it uses a full 18" long body tube.

Craig...

A Fish Named Wallyum
06-29-2005, 11:31 PM
And I have to admit, I was flying with an A8-3, not a C6-5, so I don't know how mine would have reacted with the additional tail weight. Probably like your friend's TT. I know from the RS numbers that my "No Tube Left Behind" still needed some nose weight, even though it uses a full 18" long body tube.

Craig...

If you like tube finned rockets, try the Custom Razor. Cheap and easy, (and no jokes about my dating preferences. :mad: :D )

CPMcGraw
06-29-2005, 11:41 PM
If you like tube finned rockets, try the Custom Razor. Cheap and easy, (and no jokes about my dating preferences. :mad: :D )

I thought you were implying you'd been in a few "close shaves"... :p

I've seen the Razor in the catalog, and have the plans from YORP; I bought a Serval about 10 years ago, still have the decal from the kit, and now really want to build another one. Gives me another use for that PNC-55AC nose cone from the CCX kits. Razor is a BT-50 bird, so it's a little bigger than the Totally Tubular.

Sigh...

More rockets to have to build... :eek:

Sigh...


Craig...

A Fish Named Wallyum
06-30-2005, 12:01 AM
I thought you were implying you'd been in a few "close shaves"... :p

I've seen the Razor in the catalog, and have the plans from YORP; I bought a Serval about 10 years ago, still have the decal from the kit, and now really want to build another one. Gives me another use for that PNC-55AC nose cone from the CCX kits. Razor is a BT-50 bird, so it's a little bigger than the Totally Tubular.

Bigger and shorter. If I were a tube finned rocket, I'd be a Razor. :D :cool:

JRThro
06-30-2005, 01:06 AM
Interesting...

I have the Quest Totally Tubular, and it flies great with no additional nose weight. Arrow-straight launch, no wiggles.

The Groove Tube uses ST-8, which is larger in diameter. Is the Groove Tube short-coupled (shorter in overall length) compared to the TT?

Craig
I have a Totally Tubular, which flies just fine on C6-5's. I've also seen a couple of other guys fly theirs, and they've been fine too. I have read of TT's being goofy when flown with C motors, though I haven't seen it myself.

Tau Zero
06-30-2005, 03:10 AM
I have a Totally Tubular, which flies just fine on C6-5's. I've also seen a couple of other guys fly theirs, and they've been fine too. I have read of TT's being goofy when flown with C motors, though I haven't seen it myself.

*Before* Semroc parts were commercially available, I built this BT-50 (Semroc/Centuri ST-9) Groove Tube:

http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/oop/cen_groove_tube.html

Funny, I was just looking at a Totally Tubular yesterday, and decided I needed to build an ST-8 and/or ST-10 Groove Tube instead. (Like I need *more* excuses to place an order to SEMROC!) :eek: :D


Cheers,

--Jay

Tau Zero
06-30-2005, 03:23 AM
Carl is welcome to use ANY of the BARCLONE plans for the booklet, any time!
Thanks, Craig. The BARCLONE site is a great resource.
Heck, I'll even suggest *this* one ;) :D :

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=1099&postcount=28


Cheers,

--Jay

dosco
06-30-2005, 09:23 AM
I'd like to see more mid-power kits, particularly at reasonable prices (not saying that SEMROC is expensive, just saying "in general"). The Apogee mid power stuff (branded as Dyna-Star) is interesting, but way overpriced IMO. I saw one shred on an "F" at a recent club launch - at $35.00 a rocket, shredding is unacceptable and frankly I was a bit suprised. For $35 I can pick up a PML "VHA" series rocket with a quantum tube fuselage, G-10 fins, etc.

I've designed, built, and flown a few "E" powered birds in the last couple of months - scratch building is no big deal - but it would be nice to see some reasonably priced kits out there. Built them "old school" using cardboard tubes, balsa fins, elastic shock cords, etc.

(FWIW I realize that the problem with anything above an "E" is engine size compatibility with airframes, since the "F" and "G" engine sizes are all over the place - a "one size" engine mount would be a problem).

My 2 cents, anyways.

EchoVictor
06-30-2005, 11:41 AM
Carl,

here's my ultimate Centuri kit wish list;

5345 Satellite Killer - my favorite model rocket of all time (if I could have only one, this would be it)

KA-10 Vulcan
KA-11 Groove Tube
KB-2 Vector V
KB-3 Taurus
KB-4 Sky-lab
KC-6 Space Shuttle
KC-17 SST Shuttle

SUPER KITS
5307 SSV Scorpion
5308 UFO Invader
5310 USS America
5312 ESS Raven

FIGHTER FLEET
5317 F-16 Fighter
5318 F-15 Eagle
5319 F-4 Phantom
5320 F-104 Starfighter
5321 5J Israeli Mirage

STRIKE FORCE
5331 Sea Killer
5332 SAM3
5333 Gabriel

BUCK ROGERS
5335 Starfighter
5336 Draconian Marauder

Yeah, it's pretty much all of the sci-fi ones. What can I say? I have a weakness...

Later,
EV

Ltvscout
06-30-2005, 12:50 PM
Carl already has a number of those K series kits slated for release in the future.

A Fish Named Wallyum
06-30-2005, 03:00 PM
Carl,

here's my ultimate Centuri kit wish list;

5345 Satellite Killer - my favorite model rocket of all time (if I could have only one, this would be it)

KA-10 Vulcan
KA-11 Groove Tube
KB-2 Vector V
KB-3 Taurus
KB-4 Sky-lab
KC-6 Space Shuttle
KC-17 SST Shuttle

SUPER KITS
5307 SSV Scorpion
5308 UFO Invader
5310 USS America
5312 ESS Raven

FIGHTER FLEET
5317 F-16 Fighter
5318 F-15 Eagle
5319 F-4 Phantom
5320 F-104 Starfighter
5321 5J Israeli Mirage

STRIKE FORCE
5331 Sea Killer
5332 SAM3
5333 Gabriel

BUCK ROGERS
5335 Starfighter
5336 Draconian Marauder

Yeah, it's pretty much all of the sci-fi ones. What can I say? I have a weakness...

Later,
EV

Seems to me that the Satellite Killer pops up fairly frequently on ROL auctions and I know you can get the Buck Rogers duo from Ebay when the mood strikes. I think the BR rockets are the Star Wars episode 1 kits of their day. :rolleyes: There seem to be quite a few sitting in warehouses somewhere.

Bruce Temple
06-30-2005, 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by EchoVictor
Carl,

here's my ultimate Centuri kit wish list;

5345 Satellite Killer - my favorite model rocket of all time (if I could have only one, this would be it)

Theres one on ROL now!

EchoVictor
06-30-2005, 10:47 PM
Unfortunately (or fortunately, as my wallet is concerned), my tendencies toward being a cheap bastard are much higher than my desire to own an original. I just can't see spending $30+ on something that I can clone for around $10.

Later,
EV

ghrocketman
07-18-2005, 03:42 PM
Lots of Enerjet kits !
In the order shown below:

1) ATHENA !!!!!!!
2) Nike Smoke (Enerjet working "smoke" version ONLY please, not the plain Centuri one)
3) Last ('72) version of the Aero-Dart
4) Nike-Ram
5) Egg-Crate (Enerjet E/F power version, not the Centuri A-B-C cluster kit)

6) Mini-Max/Atlas/Hercules Hustler/Lil'Hustler


About an hour ago I ordered the parts from Semroc to clone the Enerjet Athena (everything but the body wraps; need HELP here)

Anyone have a full-size fin pattern for the Athena ??

Nuke Rocketeer
07-18-2005, 09:09 PM
Maybe a new E60, F100 and F7? It would be nice to get BP high power motors that are a little cheaper than the current AP motors. You could make booster motors that could be used for direct staging to E9's.

Joe W

dwmzmm
07-21-2005, 01:45 AM
Maybe a new E60, F100 and F7? It would be nice to get BP high power motors that are a little cheaper than the current AP motors. You could make booster motors that could be used for direct staging to E9's.

Joe W

I've had excellent results using the current Estes D12-0's to the E9-8's. Last year at JSC I
flew my FSI Maverick, with the nosecone replaced by a vintage Astrocam, using this engine
combination. The D12-0 gave the stack a really great boost off the pad; the E9 picked up on
the added velocity to the point that we lost visual sight of the upperstage after burnout.
Fortunately, since the recovery was equiped with a 12" parachute, we finally saw the upper-
stage as it was parachuting down about 1,000 feet downrange. Sad news is the 110 film that
was in that Astrocam was lost when it was flown on a different, more complex launch vehicle
at JSC last May (Saturn - IV/Astrocam, flown with a total of eight motors); must have entered into rocket heaven when it flew into a cloud overhead and we never saw it again
after that!!

Carl@Semroc
08-14-2005, 05:16 AM
I've seen you doing some FSI kits as well. How about a version of the FSI Javelin and Intrepid?I missed these during the old days. They are great looking rockets! We are accumulating parts for both in the near future.

Carl@Semroc
08-14-2005, 05:21 AM
I'm all for parts packages, but Semroc has so many different size tubes and cones that I find I can custom order whatever kits I want to clone. We are going to make ordering custom parts easier over the next few months.

Ltvscout
08-14-2005, 01:37 PM
I missed these during the old days. They are great looking rockets! We are accumulating parts for both in the near future.
Bonus! Now I won't have to spend umpteen $$$ to buy the originals to build.

barone
08-14-2005, 09:33 PM
I missed these during the old days. They are great looking rockets! We are accumulating parts for both in the near future.

Carl....just a reminder, I've got both the Javelin and Intrepid still in boxes (opened) if you need to borrow anything.....

Don

rokitflite
08-14-2005, 11:32 PM
Well, I have to admit I have not read EVERY post on this thread... But I plan to do an upscale remake of a particular Centuri kit that I do not believe has been mentioned, as one of my next kit offerings. All that I am waiting for is some extra cash to buy more mold making supplies so I can cast the large, clear nose cones that I will need.

-Scott

Eagle3
08-15-2005, 07:58 AM
Well, I have to admit I have not read EVERY post on this thread... But I plan to do an upscale remake of a particular Centuri kit that I do not believe has been mentioned, as one of my next kit offerings. All that I am waiting for is some extra cash to buy more mold making supplies so I can cast the large, clear nose cones that I will need.

-Scott

UFO Invader? ;)

rokitflite
08-15-2005, 11:12 PM
UFO Invader? ;)


No,
I would have to say that that is one of my LEAST favorite kits of all time! I won't tell until I see my version completed and decide if I like it or not :D

ghrocketman
08-17-2005, 11:50 AM
I gotta agree here with rokitflite on this one; the UFO Invader was one of my LEAST liked of all Centuri and Estes offerings. In fact, I really dont care for ANY of the so-called "super kits" from Centuri.
The REAL Centuri super kits were the early seventies/late sixties Enerjet/Mini-Max kits !

Tau Zero
08-19-2005, 01:59 AM
Good Guess! Looking at the spreadsheet:
KV-44 Vector-V 1972 CenturiCarl,

While I know you usually round your body tube lengths off to the 10th of an inch (i.e., ST-857 is 5.7" long, instead of, say, 5.75"), I've been wondering what you were going to do for the 2.25" long ST-13 for the Vector-V. (Obviously, if you trim the body tube to 2.2", you'll also need to "shrink" the fin appropriately.)

So... what gives? ;) :D (I'm just trying to figure out what the thinking behind your general specifications is.) :)


Groove Tube is not on the list, but Sheryl likes it and Bill E. almost has me talked into building an SLS Groove Tube. I had to wait for RockSim 8 to try that one!(chuckling) I haven't simmed a 1.75X upscale, but "Yeah, baby, YEAH!" Somewhere I have a list that I made up for Bill that has parts lists for ST-8, ST-10, and ST-13 Groove Tubes. :D ;) :eek:


Cheers, as always,

--Jay

A Fish Named Wallyum
08-19-2005, 03:00 AM
My BT-56 based Groove Tube got lost on Friday at NARAM. It's back home with the creatures of the field. Talk about star crossed.

Green Dragon
09-02-2005, 10:29 AM
Mach 10 - waiting for BFTP, but working on fins in the mean time.

Super Kits - Loss of the C5-3 makes these much harder to do now. That 5 pound kick is really needed for larger kits like the Super Kits and ThunderRoc.

since these are Awesome kits, they bear releasing anyways.

especially with the Aerotech RMS-18 readily available again , D13 would be a good choice.

sign me up for a few when ready :-P

~ AL

Green Dragon
09-02-2005, 10:46 AM
Maybe a new E60, F100 and F7? It would be nice to get BP high power motors that are a little cheaper than the current AP motors. You could make booster motors that could be used for direct staging to E9's.

Joe W

well, this is getting somewhat off-topic for the original thread ( Semroc offerings), but what can you do, lol

I agree , and will go on record as stating that the MOST NEEDED ITEM IN ROCKETRY (period,in all genres) is LARGE BLACK POWDER ENGINES, ala FSI ,etc.

D20,E60,F100 ( or return of the rocketflite motors, in silver strek or, for me ,thank you - generic BP, which they did make, although much less common due to demand for streaks )

I have presonally been trying for years to find a willing subcontractor / manufacturer for these, with no luck .

any input , or leads ?

~ AL Swackhammer

rraeford
09-02-2005, 03:52 PM
What happened to Rocketflite anyway? I loved their motors. Bought and burned a bunch of them.

rraeford

Green Dragon
09-02-2005, 04:31 PM
What happened to Rocketflite anyway? I loved their motors. Bought and burned a bunch of them.

rraeford


As far as I know, Rocketflite stopped production due to contractual disapgreements with the persons involved, not sure much other details.
I do know that thier website ( for match making kits ), still exists and states " buy our matches if you want to see Silver Streak Motors again ! " or similar.

I always thought it was the old bait-n-switch / teaser, if they motors were coming back, they;d be here - as Rocketflite is missing a HUGE OPORTUNITY to capitalize on the growing HPR community ( and mid-power, I might add ), especially with non-regulated black powder motors.

Personally, if I can;t get motros made myself - would liek to know what ever happened to Flight Systems ???????

I'd heard they were making motros for Quest, but now Quest is talking about the German maded motors, so not sure if the FSI rumor was true, or not.

I do know, as a past FSI dealer, when they shut down they never cashed the check for my last order, and another dealer said he owed THEM money, and they never contacted him, so ..... go figure.

~ AL Swackhammer

Phred
09-02-2005, 08:20 PM
I am sure that here are others who can answer this better than I, but as I understand it, FSI closed due to the death of the owner.

Phred

Nuke Rocketeer
09-02-2005, 10:54 PM
I am sure that here are others who can answer this better than I, but as I understand it, FSI closed due to the death of the owner.

Phred

That's what I heard too. BTW....a thread on the Rocketry Forum on this someone stated that Lonnie and his employees did not make the engines. Doug Pratt said an old guy named George Roos, the founder of FSI made the engines and sold them to FSI.

Joe W

Green Dragon
09-03-2005, 12:26 PM
That's what I heard too. BTW....a thread on the Rocketry Forum on this someone stated that Lonnie and his employees did not make the engines. Doug Pratt said an old guy named George Roos, the founder of FSI made the engines and sold them to FSI.

Joe W

That's very interesting .. even right until the end of FSI ?

I remember reading an article about FSI and thier 'bunker' they had, thought it made note the machines were located there.

curious as to where the machine is now, be nice to get it running again - even if the motor were as (un) reliable as the FSI's they'd sell like crazy.

has me thinking , again - can be dangerous - about the MPC / AVI machine, I believe it was Phred mentioned that Quest had it, then it would up with a fireworks guy down south ?
would that machine also make the AVI 24 and 32mm engines ( with thr right tooling ?)

~ AL Swackhammer

( been too many roadblocks to producing green Dragon composite motors, so why not Black Powder ? )

Phred
09-03-2005, 04:45 PM
Yeah... internet rumor (mostly from a few nights of searching on RMR..) says that the MPC machines went to FSI, then to QUEST. Then to the fireworks guy who got himself all caught up in the red tape and could not get the motors certified....

This is the same machine that made everything from the AVI Micro motors up to the 32mm Fs.

Phred

rraeford
09-03-2005, 11:11 PM
I don't know if this will be helpful but I always understood that Firefox Enterprises had all the old FSI stuff. They still sell the 27mm (1.113 inch) tubing as well as few other FSI tube sizes, some nose cones, some precut fins for FSI kits, parachutes and a few other parts. If the order I sent them ever arrives I'll know instantly that this is truly old FSI stock. I think they're just selling off the stocks of parts until they're gone. It doesn't look as though they are going to add to it.

Firefox is basically a chemical and part supply house for fireworks manufacturing. They sell a few fireworks but mostly it's the chemistry and fixtures to make high end pyro stuff. Maybe FSI was/became a part of Firefox? Maybe they just bought the left overs. Anyway, a phone call might be the best approach to finding out. Faxing and emailing them is kind of unreliable.

BTW, I always understood that FSI was actually a rockety division of a company that did work for film and TV production. They always had a “Thunderbolt” motor in their catalog but you couldn't buy it. I called them once about it and was told that they put that in there by mistake (but never bothered to take it out) and that it was an motor for “industrial applications.” Right!

Considering how wildly inconsistent their quality was, I always had a fantasy about them being the pyro guys on a stunt shoot for an episode of “The Fall Guy.” There would have been lots of takes and a lot of time spent explaining why they couldn't get anything to work right. Oh, AND LOTS OF CATOS.

Hee hee.

rraeford

ghrocketman
09-05-2005, 10:55 PM
rraeford:
I LOVE your idea of having FSI for the "pyro guys" on an episode of "Fall Guy"; that would have been hilarious; I remember having those motors CATO at least 1/3 of the time I tried to use them....I learned to use them in "expendable" rockets only...their reccommended motors for some of their kits were ridiculous....like a 7-sec burn F7-6 or an F100 in a 24" tall rocket....recovery was almost never part of the equation, so I figure the chance of a CATO was not a big deal anyway....added a touch of realistic "NASA" flavor from the sixties to each & every attempted launch. It was a wonder they survived as long as they did.
I remember 2 packs of D20's and 2 packs of E60s that had 5 out of 6 motors CATO. What a joke.

rraeford
09-06-2005, 10:05 AM
You know, I had really good luck with FSI motors. From E5s to F100s. I rarely had a cato myself. But everyone around me seemed to struggle mightily with them. The one problem I did have was inconsistency in performance.

Years ago, I built a model to fly specifically on E5-4s. It was light weight and overly stable. It must have made a dozen perfect flights. Then I got a new batch of E5 motors and the model crashed repeatedly because the motor didn't have the kick to get it off the pad and keep going. The model lifted about 50 feet into the air and then hovered until the breeze tilted it over. It then fell back to the ground and flopped around for 4 seconds until the motor burned out.

The next pack of E5s “thrusted” more like the D-20s. Very frustrating. The only good part was they were relatively cheap. And of course, as you say, they were EXCITING.

I agree with your accessment of recommended engines. What are we trying to say when a model has a recommended engine selection from B3-4 up to an F100-8?

Yeah, recovery...it's overrated.

Rraeford

Nuke Rocketeer
09-06-2005, 10:33 AM
E60's were the only FSI engine I ever had a lot of CATO problems with. I never had a F100 , F7, or E5 CATO and the D18's and D20's only a couple of times. I still have a stash of these engines and fire one off occasionally. The E60's are for July 4th specials whenever I ahve an old rocket I'm willing to take the 75% chance it will be destroyed. I have used the D20's, D18's and E5's a lot lately and have had one CATO with an E5-6 on an upper stage. It lit, boosted for less than 1 second and then blew out forward, cooking the BT right above the fins.

Joe W

ghrocketman
09-06-2005, 11:19 PM
The FSI CATOs that I have experienced were major explosions; like the engine consisted of LOOSE or cracked black powder.
Never had a CATO with an E5, F7, or D18; they always were with the E60, D20, or F100.

SEL
09-07-2005, 01:00 AM
You know, I had really good luck with FSI motors. From E5s to F100s. I rarely had a cato myself. But everyone around me seemed to struggle mightily with them. The one problem I did have was inconsistency in performance.

<snip>

Rraeford

Same here - I had one CATO with a F100 (and what a CATO it was!) and one possible with a D20-0. Couldn't really tell 'cause the second stage lit and there wasn't any damage to the first stage. Seemed to stage mighty quick, tho....

As far as E5's go, like Romie mine were very inconsistent - either good flights, or cruise missiles. I have a pack of E5-0's that I'm not sure are good for anything other then maybe a rocket glider.

Sean

rraeford
09-07-2005, 02:39 PM
Well, my order from Firefox arrived today. I can tell you two things. One is that the plastic FSI Select-a-chute parachutes are still available. I got 3. I always liked their chutes.

The second thing I can tell you is that their tubing is NOT old FSI stock. These tubes are unfinished kraft paper and I doubt VERY seriously that the dimensions of the tubing match the sizes stated on the website. I'll know more tonight when I get home and get out the calipers.

Also, I ordered about 5 nose cones. None came. They are listed as “out of stock. Permanently, I should think. I got one beat set of 3 Sandhawk fins with a note telling me they were the last ones. BTW, the Sandhawk had 4 fins.

So, any fantasy about getting real FSI parts to build my FSI clones has been dashed.

Also, I paid an exorbitant amount of shipping/tax/box charge/fuel surcharge totaling $15.18. All this for 3 parachutes, 3 dented fins and a handful of tubes I don't need.

Caveat emptor.

rraeford

EchoVictor
09-07-2005, 05:48 PM
Hey Carl,

any updates you can give us on the timing/availability of a Semroc Designer's Special?

Thanks,
EV

stefanj
09-08-2005, 01:06 AM
FSI *DID* sell one model of their composite Thunderbolt line. I think it was an F32. It was available for a few years in the mid 70s. It requried special shipping. I forget the details, but the 1977 catalog should list it.

A member in the old North Shore Section had a few. All I remember was that it had an ugly phenolic case. (You could buy the case material.)

A later G160 Thunderbolt was either vaporware or, as suggested, limited to Reese Industries' commercial clients.

I will describe my visit to FSI in 1990 at a later time. Just got back from a trip.

Stefan

Carl@Semroc
09-29-2005, 09:35 PM
So, any fantasy about getting real FSI parts to build my FSI clones has been dashed.
rraefordWe are working on that! We now have all the FSI tube sizes in stock and are releasing the rest of the nose cones.

FSI Cross Reference (http://www.semroc.com/documents/fsixref.asp)

Still missing the Nike Smoke #1030 and Nike Tomahawk #1023 balsa and fin profiles. Thanks to Scott, Don, John, Buzz, Greg, and Sean and others for the great FSI files on Ye Olde Rocket Plans! This would not be possible without your help.

Carl@Semroc
09-29-2005, 09:44 PM
Hey Carl,

any updates you can give us on the timing/availability of a Semroc Designer's Special?

Thanks,
EVIf we had a Designer's Manual (and larger chutes), we could release it tomorrow.

rraeford
09-29-2005, 10:57 PM
Carl,

Yes, I saw that and you just sent my order for a bunch of that FSI-sized stuff out to me today. Never thought I'd get any of that stuff again.

I'm sure you get this a lot (and probably hate it) but any idea when the Arcon Hi, Marauder and Taurus might be ready? Or others? Just curious.

Thanks for the your super work you guys are doing at SEMROC.

rraeford

barone
09-30-2005, 07:26 AM
Still missing the Nike Smoke #1030 and Nike Tomahawk #1023 balsa and fin profiles.

Carl,

I've got the FSI Nike Smoke plans and patterns. You want I should try to post here? I think I've already gave them to Scott.

Don
NAR 53455

Ltvscout
09-30-2005, 08:31 AM
Carl,

I've got the FSI Nike Smoke plans and patterns. You want I should try to post here? I think I've already gave them to Scott.

Don
NAR 53455
Don,

I just went through all of my "to post" plans. Those aren't in there. It's possible that Buzz McD got them early this year and they never got sent to me. Please upload them to your FTP area and I'll get them fast-tracked with Buzz Nau and into Carl's hands. Thanks!

ghrocketman
09-30-2005, 11:59 AM
Hey Carl,
How is the Aero-Dart coming along ?
Any idea of the intro date ??????
:D :D :D :D

barone
09-30-2005, 01:57 PM
Please upload them to your FTP area and I'll get them fast-tracked with Buzz Nau and into Carl's hands. Thanks!

Done.....The nosecone is too large for my scanner but it is a Nike-Smoke :) . Fin thickness is 5/32".

Don
NAR 53455

Ltvscout
09-30-2005, 10:20 PM
Done.....The nosecone is too large for my scanner but it is a Nike-Smoke :) . Fin thickness is 5/32".

Don
NAR 53455
Thanks! Buzz, go ahead and download them from Don's FTP area when you have a chance for processing. I'll then put them online with a link here for Carl and others to grab them till they go up on YORP.

I'll bet Carl would take real good care of you (if ya know what I mean), if you could ship the cone and possibly the fins out to him so he can get accurate measurements for repro purposes.

barone
10-01-2005, 06:55 AM
I'll bet Carl would take real good care of you (if ya know what I mean), if you could ship the cone and possibly the fins out to him so he can get accurate measurements for repro purposes.

Carl,

If you need it, it's available.

Don
NAR 53455

Eagle3
10-03-2005, 11:38 AM
Downloading now.

CPMcGraw
10-08-2005, 11:29 PM
Am I late to this party, or just unfashionably early, to notice all of the ESTES DIAMETER nose cones that Carl has added to the website?

He's gone and done our BNC-55AO nose cone for the Vigilante, Comet, SeaStrike-D, Goblin, etc...

And, of course, the 50 J, K, X, and Y!!!!!

Wow, Carl! One-Stop shopping for us true sick-ohs! :eek:

I can feel the pain in my wallet now... :D

Brian L Raney
11-14-2005, 02:39 AM
Mach 10 - waiting for BFTP, but working on fins in the mean time.

Super Kits - Loss of the C5-3 makes these much harder to do now. That 5 pound kick is really needed for larger kits like the Super Kits and ThunderRoc.


A D12-5 more than makes up for the loss of the C5-3S. Centuri had magnum-D conversion options for all their Super Kits. Check out their old advisery from JimZ web page: http://www.dars.org/jimz/other/cenengma.jpg

The only caveat was that, with a D engine mount, the Super Kits need 1 oz. of clay weight in their nose cones.

Eagle3
11-15-2005, 12:45 PM
Hey Carl, are you planning to make the Estes P/N 072305, PNC-60RL cone available? I could use about three of those right now for some projects. :)

Vanel
11-15-2005, 12:57 PM
Hey Carl, are you planning to make the Estes P/N 072305, PNC-60RL cone available? I could use about three of those right now for some projects. :)

Amen - I need them too...

CPMcGraw
11-15-2005, 06:09 PM
Amen - I need them too...

Ditto... :)

Carl@Semroc
11-15-2005, 11:34 PM
Hey Carl, are you planning to make the Estes P/N 072305, PNC-60RL cone available? I could use about three of those right now for some projects. :)We now have a few more balsa cones online. The BNC-60RL (http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=721) should be a close approximation of the PNC-60RL. I don't have a PNC-60RL, so this one is from several drawings and photos at YORP.

Ltvscout
11-15-2005, 11:49 PM
We now have a few more balsa cones online. The BNC-60RL (http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=721) should be a close approximation of the PNC-60RL. I don't have a PNC-60RL, so this one is from several drawings and photos at YORP.
Someone borrow/sell a representative cone to Carl!

A Fish Named Wallyum
11-15-2005, 11:52 PM
Someone borrow/sell a representative cone to Carl!

I'm game. I just opened a National Aerospace Plane and it will be a while before I need the cone. Let me know, Carl.

Eagle3
11-16-2005, 08:41 AM
We now have a few more balsa cones online. The BNC-60RL (http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=721) should be a close approximation of the PNC-60RL. I don't have a PNC-60RL, so this one is from several drawings and photos at YORP.

Got my order in. Close is good enough. :) Thanks Carl!

CPMcGraw
11-16-2005, 12:56 PM
Carl,

You know what you really get for all your hard work, right? :D

More requests -- Couplers for the BT-55 and larger tubes? Centering Rings for all of these Estes components? Clear tubing? :rolleyes:

Green Dragon
11-16-2005, 01:05 PM
Carl,

You know what you really get for all your hard work, right? :D

More requests -- Couplers for the BT-55 and larger tubes? Centering Rings for all of these Estes components? Clear tubing? :rolleyes:

regarding clear tubing...

Do you have the ST-10 clear tubes on the way ?

need one of those to finish up my T-Bird clone :-)

~ AL

Eagle3
11-16-2005, 01:23 PM
Carl,

You know what you really get for all your hard work, right? :D

More requests -- Couplers for the BT-55 and larger tubes? Centering Rings for all of these Estes components? Clear tubing? :rolleyes:

FlisKits already has the 55 couplers and I think Jim is working on clear tubing too.

Vanel
11-16-2005, 03:56 PM
Got my order in. Close is good enough. :) Thanks Carl!

Mine is in too - Carl is da man!

Eagle3
11-21-2005, 03:46 PM
Hey Carl, got my order on Friday and those cones are beautiful! Thanks!

Carl@Semroc
11-21-2005, 04:28 PM
Hey Carl, got my order on Friday and those cones are beautiful! Thanks!
Thanks for the nudge to get them released!

Vanel
11-21-2005, 08:22 PM
My PNC-60RL's came in Saturday - Very nice work, Carl! Thanks muchly!

Now I can tackle that MX-774 clone :eek:

Green Dragon
11-21-2005, 08:49 PM
My PNC-60RL's came in Saturday - Very nice work, Carl! Thanks muchly!

Now I can tackle that MX-774 clone :eek:

by " PNC-60RL " , I'm assuming you mean ' balsa versions of the long cones ' ?

wasn't aware Carl was doing plastic cones, or did I miss something ? ( wishful thinking )

~ AL

Vanel
11-21-2005, 10:20 PM
by " PNC-60RL " , I'm assuming you mean ' balsa versions of the long cones ' ?

wasn't aware Carl was doing plastic cones, or did I miss something ? ( wishful thinking )

~ AL

Sorry, I did mean BNC-60RL... However, Carl's balsa work is superb; doesn't require much in the way of finishing.