Wal-Mart Responds

[Rocket Doctor]

I sent an email to the Wal-Mart corporate office, yesterday I received a call from the assistant manager of my local Wal-Mart.

I was told that the store (local) would not be carrying Estes products anymore due to lack of sale in this area.

I asked about nation wide, I was also told that if sales aren't there, a product is dropped.

So,it depends upon local and sales, some areas better than others.

I was also told that there may be some items available for the holiday season, but, I would have to check next month.

Right now WM is resetting their stores for Halloween, Thabksgiving Day and Christmas.

I was also told that it's the consumer who dictates what WM will carry and not only should you speak to the manager of your local WM, but, also send an inquiry into corporate as well.

Then I was told that if you wanted something in quantity, you could have it special ordered.

I was told by a former VP at Estes not to contact WM, this was the wrong approach, the more requests that WM gets, the better chance that they will carry an item.

It's the demand that gets the supplies, only makes sence to me.

Post feedback here about your local WM so we can figure out where rockets are being sold and not being sold.

[ScaleNut]

stupid Walmart,

it's hard to buy rockets at walmart when all they have is a supershot starter set..

hobby lobby stocks a >selection< of rockets and they sell plenty of them.

you gotta have something to sell, physicaly waiting on the shelf, before people can buy it.

if they want to sell rockets they need to >stock rockets< or else get out of the business.

[al_packer]

stupid Walmart,

it's hard to buy rockets at walmart when all they have is a supershot starter set..

hobby lobby stocks a >selection< of rockets and they sell plenty of them.

you gotta have something to sell, physicaly waiting on the shelf, before people can buy it.

if they want to sell rockets they need to >stock rockets< or else get out of the business.

All the more reason to patronize your local, friendly habby shop---------
Or go back to the hobby's roots and buy by mail order.
Half the fun in the early days was waiting with anticipation for the postman to arrive. Not here today? Boy, I'm sure it will be here tomorrow!

Bill Simon

[ScaleNut]

Bill, I would give my right arm for a local hobby shop.
so the majority of my purchases are indeed online.

I am just a little discouraged at walmarts sales model..(you will buy what >we< decide to stock)

[tfischer]

Bill, I would give my right arm for a local hobby shop.
so the majority of my purchases are indeed online.

I am just a little discouraged at walmarts sales model..(you will buy what >we< decide to stock)

Back in the 70's/early 80's, I remember K-mart had a reasonable hobby department. Target had things like HO trains and plastic models as well. Not anymore... these are all relegated as "niche hobbies" that require a special store...

Why? Don't blame the stores -- they'd sell anything to make a buck. Blame things like video games, and other "instant entertainment". Most parents aren't willing to take the time to nurture their kids in a hobby like Rocketry, and most kids aren't gonna seek it out by themselves...

Want to help change the tide? Make sure your own kids get involved in a hobby (be it rocketry, or whatever). I'm assuming that people here with kids of that age are already doing that, but if not, and your kid would rather sit in front of the Video Game, then you're part of the problem... :(

-Tim

[Rocket Doctor]

All the more reason to patronize your local, friendly habby shop---------
Or go back to the hobby's roots and buy by mail order.
Half the fun in the early days was waiting with anticipation for the postman to arrive. Not here today? Boy, I'm sure it will be here tomorrow!

Bill Simon

The good old days!!!
When I started in the hobby 43 years ago, we went to our local hobby shop, purchased tons of rockets and motors and got excellent personal service.

several years ago the hobby shop went of of business ater 42 years in the business,one of the first hobby shops in New Jersey to sell Estes products............the reason why..............mass merchandisers !!!

There are certain areas of the country that are hard pressed to have ANY mass merchandisers let alone hobby shops.

Why do you think that a certain company won't sell via mail order? The mass won't allow it.

Well, it seems that WM isn't going to sell many rockets, and like I mentioned previously, I was told, don't talk to a store manager.

Well, that was not the case, I did speak to a manager and was told straight out, talk to a store manager and contact corporate and request..............only then they might listen.

The trouble with mass is, they tell the mfg how much they are willing to pay for an item, and, if you want to get in the dooe, you sell to them at that price.

We need to get back to our roots, balsa, aerogloss sealer, lower prices, quality, creativity, mail order, and personal contact from mfg's at national contests.

I'm ceretainly not pointing fingers at anyone, this is my opinion.

I do hope the hobby can survive another 50, time will tell.........

[Ltvscout]

stupid Walmart,

it's hard to buy rockets at walmart when all they have is a supershot starter set..

hobby lobby stocks a >selection< of rockets and they sell plenty of them.

you gotta have something to sell, physicaly waiting on the shelf, before people can buy it.

if they want to sell rockets they need to >stock rockets< or else get out of the business.
I was just at one of the Walmarts by me today. I took a gander in the toy department. I found a few OOP Launchables. There were two Fat Boys, a BLU-97B Cluster Bomb, a Lucky Seven, a GBU-24 Paveway III and a Python 4 ASRAAM.

[Rocket Doctor]

And we all know how long ago these came out.

[Solomoriah]

The Wal-Mart stores in Kirksville, MO and Quincy, IL both tend to carry the same items... the RTF camera rocket starter set (whatever they call that), the Launchables Outlaw/Black Diamond starter set, the two different RTF mini-rocket starter sets, one or more of the Launchables kits in the strangely-designed packaging (usually a Star Dart/Sizzler or Heatseeker package, rarely any of the others, though I got my Bullpup that way), and a box or two of "assorted" engines. Generally, A10-3T, A8-3, C6-5, C6-3, or C6-7; once, I saw a box containing several packages of B6-4's.

Gah. If only Hobby Lobby would stock B6-6's... at least they have A8-5's. The LHS in Quincy has a very small selection of Quest kits and some pre-fire engines; I plan to go in there and get a pack of B6-0's before they sell out, but that shouldn't be any time soon at the rate he is going.

[Race58]

One thing I found at my local WM was a lot of engines at $3.50-4.79 per 3-pack. Needless to say I bought a few. The selection of rockets was slim mostly starter kits and camera rockets.

[Royatl]

Half the fun in the early days was waiting with anticipation for the postman to arrive. Not here today? Boy, I'm sure it will be here tomorrow!

Bill Simon

You got that right, Bill!

That's why i LOVE getting those boxes from Semroc every two or three months.

Of course, its not exactly the same, because the anticipation came from the three weeks it took to order something from Penrose to Athens, GA.

Carl and Sheryl gets it to me in two days!

[kurtschachner]

Half the fun in the early days was waiting with anticipation for the postman to arrive. Not here today? Boy, I'm sure it will be here tomorrow!

Bill Simon

Yeah, I always wanted my stuff shipped via the post office so I got one more shot during the week (Saturday) to get it delivered.

I even made friends with the mail man so I could find out where he started his route in the morning. Our house was at the very end of the route and he didn't show up until 4:00 or even later. Once I learned where he started, I drove my bike over there to meet him. I still recall a couple of times when I drove up and he said "Hey Kurt, I have a 'rocket box' here for you! Do you want it now or just wait till I deliver it later?"

Ya sure, deliver it later. Wrong!

[pantherjon]

I went by the local WM here last night and I guess that rocket stuff IS selling here..hmmmm..The time I was there previously and last nights visit showed a big reduction in the number of rocket sets they had on the shelf..The have the Oracle starter set, a few launchable, and a couple of the mini shot set..Have also been noticing the motors moving out pretty good too..Just wish they had a little more selection, just mainly A10-3, A8-5, C6-5 and C6-7..

[Rocket Doctor]

I went by the local WM here last night and I guess that rocket stuff IS selling here..hmmmm..The time I was there previously and last nights visit showed a big reduction in the number of rocket sets they had on the shelf..The have the Oracle starter set, a few launchable, and a couple of the mini shot set..Have also been noticing the motors moving out pretty good too..Just wish they had a little more selection, just mainly A10-3, A8-5, C6-5 and C6-7..


At least they have rockets, mine is closing them out.
As far as the motors go, all the WM seem to carry the same type, and no B's.

[CPMcGraw]

At least they have rockets, mine is closing them out.
As far as the motors go, all the WM seem to carry the same type, and no B's.

Something I've noticed at my local WM, is the way motors seem to "trickle in". Most of the time, the store here at my front door has had the same boxes of C6-3, -5, and -7 motors on the shelf since Methuselah was flying prototype Scouts. A few days ago, they miraculously had four packs of A8-3 motors appear. They disappeared just as quickly (with some help from me... :D ). I'm almost certain the next time I see any "A" or "B" motors will be well into the next year.

It's been literally years since I've seen any major inflow of motors. I did notice the disappearance (finally) of that X-15 starter set, and the addition of a couple more Outlaw / Black Diamond sets.

We have a new WM opening soon a few miles from me. Maybe I can get in touch with the new manager and "educate" him or her properly...

[al_packer]

I believe all WalMart management personnel are Cylons, so no gender designation is appropriate.

[K.M.Knox]

Maybe your WM is different but the ones near me all buy their engines in those packs where you get 8? of 3 different types, usually A10's, A8's, B6's, & C's. I am sure they need to sell the whole box before they stock a new one. The last time I was at our closest WM they had 3 full cases? open, I picked some A10's up, I'll have to see what is left when I walk the isles this week. Kinda interested since it has been a good few weeks since I was there last. There rocket selection was almost non-existent, a couple of starter sets and I can't remember which one.

[CPMcGraw]

Maybe your WM is different but the ones near me all buy their engines in those packs where you get 8? of 3 different types, usually A10's, A8's, B6's, & C's. I am sure they need to sell the whole box before they stock a new one. The last time I was at our closest WM they had 3 full cases? open, I picked some A10's up, I'll have to see what is left when I walk the isles this week. Kinda interested since it has been a good few weeks since I was there last. There rocket selection was almost non-existent, a couple of starter sets and I can't remember which one.

Same with (all) my local area WMs. They get those 12-pack display boxes, and inevitably they have only a few motors in each box - rarely a "full box" of anything.

I've always been of the mind that "Ya can't sell what ya ain't got" - you've got to have the product on the shelves if you expect to rack up sales at the register. Somehow, this ain't computin' at Wally World as far as rockets go...

[Rocket Doctor]

Those motors displays are known as master packs, there not the same as bulk packs. The problem with that is, if there are motors that are not selling, the master pack will just sit there until the amount goes down enough to put up another master pack.

Usually the "C" motors are the first to go, and, how many of us need A10's, and usually lots of C's.

There should be a way that WM can replenish the missing motors, but, apparently they can't.

Likev I mentioned previously, it's the demand that dictates what kits they have to offer, and, in my case NONE.

Like I was told, you need to talk to a manager and also contact corporate, unless they know there is a market, they will drop them.

I have also notices that Spin Master items have also been reduced as well.

[Rocket Doctor]

Just got back from my local WM, here is a list of the motors available.

packs of motors available

14 A10-3T

1 A8-3

1 C6-3

6 C6-5

4 C6-7

And only about four starter sets all the same.

[ghrocketman]

RD,
It looks like your WM carries the same (maybe larger) selection of Estes motors as mine, except mine always has plenty of USELESS A10-PT's.

Not a single "B" engine to be found, and has not been one in the Fenton, Mi. Walmart (or any Michigan Wal Marts I ever get to) for the past TWO freakin' years.
If they can't order individual items that they are out of stock, I therefore judge their system to STINK !

I think local Wal Marts saying that they cannot order individual items is just a lot of double talk that really means that they could order individual items, but choose not to put forth the effort it requires.
Any store that is forced to have certain items on the shelf via corporate directive but is not allowed to individually order well selling but market location specifically popular items is managed at the corporate level by incompetent greedy buffoons that really care NOTHING about their customer base. Wal Mart is one store that may have low prices, but they obviously have never heard of the concept of "the customer is ALWAYS right"

[tbzep]

RD,
It looks like your WM carries the same (maybe larger) selection of Estes motors as mine, except mine always has plenty of USELESS A10-PT's.


They aren't useless if you fly alone. You can dig out the plug and you will have A10-0's. Not recommended for use at clubs for liability reasons.

Disclaimer: I don't recommend this to anybody even if they do fly alone. Safety Nazi's leave me alone!

(Yes, it does work.)

[Shreadvector]

Wal-Mart dropped the A10-PT many months ago - perhaps as long ago as January. If your store still has any, they have failed to do inventory and mark them down for clearance.

Mark downs vary but usually start at $3 per pack and rapidly approach $1.50 to $1 per pack as they get stale.

They will not see those motors without the rocket cars designed to take them. They were dropped by Wal-Mart at the same time.

if anyone has a more accurate drop-date for these, please chime in.

RD,
It looks like your WM carries the same (maybe larger) selection of Estes motors as mine, except mine always has plenty of USELESS A10-PT's.

Not a single "B" engine to be found, and has not been one in the Fenton, Mi. Walmart (or any Michigan Wal Marts I ever get to) for the past TWO freakin' years.
If they can't order individual items that they are out of stock, I therefore judge their system to STINK !

I think local Wal Marts saying that they cannot order individual items is just a lot of double talk that really means that they could order individual items, but choose not to put forth the effort it requires.
Any store that is forced to have certain items on the shelf via corporate directive but is not allowed to individually order well selling but market location specifically popular items is managed at the corporate level by incompetent greedy buffoons that really care NOTHING about their customer base. Wal Mart is one store that may have low prices, but they obviously have never heard of the concept of "the customer is ALWAYS right"

[Rocket Doctor]

When WM gets a master pack, whatever is in that master pack is it, as far as I know, they don't have the capability of ordireing seperate items unfortunately.

WM complains that they aren't selling rocket stuff, Estes complains that WM isn't ordering, it's a viscious cycle.

I talked to those in the know at Estes, when I was still involved, and it fell on deaf ears, I was told by the VP of sales and marketing, not to inquire with WM, he since has left the company.

There needs to be a good sales rep from Estes that can educate the buyers at WM as to what they really need inorder to maintain sales.

I sent an email to corporate, and, they pass it off to your local WM, and the managers there have no clue as to what is going on.

I was told by a assistant manager, if I were to ordr $100.00 worth of rockets/engines, that they could special order them.

But, like I have been saying, over and over again, same old motors, no change, and having 14 packs of A10-3T's is ridiculous.

And, like it has been noted over and over again, try to find a B motor, only one pack of A's then all C's............HELLO, what is wrong with this picture ?????

[barone]

Wal-Mart dropped the A10-PT many months ago - perhaps as long ago as January. If your store still has any, they have failed to do inventory and mark them down for clearance.

Mark downs vary but usually start at $3 per pack and rapidly approach $1.50 to $1 per pack as they get stale.

They will not see those motors without the rocket cars designed to take them. They were dropped by Wal-Mart at the same time.

if anyone has a more accurate drop-date for these, please chime in.
I bought all the A10-PTs my loal walmart had for $.50 a pack of four.... :rolleyes:

[Doug Sams]

There needs to be a good sales rep from Estes that can educate the buyers at WM as to what they really need inorder to maintain sales.You can say that about any "big box" store. They all do programmed buying, but the programming is flawed. If they had solid programming, the computer would give them the right stuff to order.

One home center I remember is a great example. They always received the same number of #1, #2 and #3 phillips screwdriver bits in each replenishment. The computer was controlling this...without correlating it with sales data. The result was, since 90% of the time, customers need a #2 bit, that the peghooks for #1 and #3 were always overflowing while the #2 hook was empty.

Similarly, I remember a vending machine that got serviced twice a week. It was pretty much empty when the guy got to it each time. Most vending machines internally log the purchases, but nobody uses the data. If they had, they might have seen the machine was half empty withing 24 hours of being refilled. They could have increased their volume over 50% each week by coming every two days instead of twice a week.

Anyway, I can only imagine what's going on in Bentonville. I rarely ever saw any kits on the shelf at Dallas area WalMarts - only starter sets and motors - but almost no launchables. Surely if they'd been looking at run-rates, they would have seen that the launchables were selling out so fast that they needed to be replinishing them much more often.

I guess it's like this: WalMart gets a big crate of rocket stuff. Half the crate sells within 2 days of being placed on shelf. Other half of crate languishes for frickin' ever. Without looking at timeline, analysis shows crate moved too slow, thus rocket stuff not fast sellers. Detailed breakdown - by someone with IQ > bodytemp - would have shown that all the good stuff sold in two days and WalMart needed different mix of product in crate.

Of course, that would be too easy....

Doug
Turning into curmudgeon...

[sandman]

Some times the big chain stores overbuy and have to correct their mistakes.

A while back I was in a local Meijer store (like Wal-Mart) and I grabbed a Fat Boy to replace the one stuck on a power line.

When the cashier rang it up she told me, "that will be $0.88 please."

I said, "Excuse me???...I'll be right back."

Need I say more? :rolleyes:

[Gus]

I guess it's like this: WalMart gets a big crate of rocket stuff. Half the crate sells within 2 days of being placed on shelf. Other half of crate languishes for frickin' ever. Without looking at timeline, analysis shows crate moved too slow, thus rocket stuff not fast sellers. Detailed breakdown - by someone with IQ > bodytemp - would have shown that all the good stuff sold in two days and WalMart needed different mix of product in crate.

Doug,

This is absolutely my experience with Walmart, and I just don't get it. Walmart became the biggest retailer in the nation by having tremendous inventory control and incredible data management. But what I see with regard to rockets should give them reason to worry. I know rockets are just a rounding error on the overall operation, but they are so poorly managed that it suggests WalMart's systems aren't working very well.

When the shipments come in, the good stuff goes quick and the dregs just sit and sit. If my local Walmart put a gross of Space Ship Ones on the shelf they'd be gone in a month. But the Gauchitos and Lucky Sevens will sit there forever. And that's what they have. Most of what is on the shelf is dead inventory.

Walmart's systems aren't working the way they should. And I imagine it's not just working that way in the rocketry department.

[CPMcGraw]

Doug,

This is absolutely my experience with Walmart, and I just don't get it. Walmart became the biggest retailer in the nation by having tremendous inventory control and incredible data management. But what I see with regard to rockets should give them reason to worry. I know rockets are just a rounding error on the overall operation, but they are so poorly managed that it suggests WalMart's systems aren't working very well.

When the shipments come in, the good stuff goes quick and the dregs just sit and sit. If my local Walmart put a gross of Space Ship Ones on the shelf they'd be gone in a month. But the Gauchitos and Lucky Sevens will sit there forever. And that's what they have. Most of what is on the shelf is dead inventory.

Walmart's systems aren't working the way they should. And I imagine it's not just working that way in the rocketry department.

You want a bigger example of this? Look through the grocery section for your favorite items. Chances are, you'll find an open space on the shelf where it should be. Not just something else in its place, but open space. The WM here at my front door (literally) is horrible about maintaining stock on the shelves. Other WMs in Mobile are just as bad, some better, others worse.

The problem is systemic, not simply localized.

[al_packer]

It's also possible that the fault does not lie with WalMart, but with a supplier who pumps a "recommended" product combination into the pipeline.

[Rocket Doctor]

In the case of rockets at WM, Estes deals directly with WM and has one person who only does that.

It is disturbing that something hasn't been done about the istuation. I tried to point this out, but, that was that.

Like I mentioned previously, when you have 14 packs of A10-3T motors sitting there forever, and, you don't have the notors that the customer wants, there IS a problem.

I tried to EDUCATE, the toy department manager, but, they have no clue as to what is going on with the product.

What I get is, well, they sell well, and nothing else. Even store management doesn't have a clue, I was told that the Estes line was going to be dropped, then, I was told that it's a regular item and would be coming in on a regular basis.

Well, they have one starter set on the very top shelf, out of view of potential customers, while the other starter set in on the bottom, not even together, the motors are in display boxes, behing each other, all of the A10-3T were in the front. So, I took the time and put all the A10-3T's in one box , and put that box all the way in the back, then, I put all the designated motors together, in an order that makes sense, hopefully, the motors will sell.

This still doesn't change the fact that apparently WM ordrs master packs and whatevere comes in that, that's it. Apparently, they don't have the ability to order individual packs of replacements motors.

The only way changes are going to be made is for all customers write to their headquarters and "educate" them. If we sit in silence, nothing will be done about the situation.

Now is the time for changes, they have been involved in "resets" of all d epartments, and, if items don't sell, you probably won't see them.

[Gus]

So, I took the time and put all the A10-3T's in one box , and put that box all the way in the back, then, I put all the designated motors together, in an order that makes sense, hopefully, the motors will sell.
Ken,

You do that too, LOL? I routinely clean up the rockets section at Walmart and Meijer's (a similar type store here in the midwest). I consider it a service to the hobby to make the rocketry section look as presentable as possible. And if I occasionally give the rockets an extra facing or two (or five) compared to the stores layout plan well, oops, my bad. ;)

What I find so interesting about the discussion here is that we are hearing that the very folks Walmart wants to sell to, the price-conscious shopper looking to pick up staples, that we go there and routinely can't find them. Walmart isn't about depth, they're about picking the fast movers from a product line and offering those items at a reduced price. The problem with the Estes lineup there is that it has become focused on the first-time buyer, not on the repeat buyer.

Not that I really care what happens to Walmart, but this skimming the cream of the crop, offered at a price the local hobby shops can't match, has helped lead to the demise of the retail outlets Estes used to depend on. My local hobby shops are all pretty much gone.

I presume that Walmart moves lots of volume at low margin for Estes. What the overall effect of losing that would be to Estes perhaps you can comment on.

[Rocket Doctor]

I haven't been associated with Estes since the Forum was brought down, but, before that, I would routinely visit several WM to see just what they had and what was selling, it was the same ole, same ole.

It might be great to move merchandise in volume, but, the bottom line is, who is there for customer support, like, what is provided through local hobby shops.

I was associated with a local hobby shop, this goes back to my early years in the hobby, the owner gave us great discounts, have a complete supply of products, and if he didn't have something, would order it.

Unfortunatley, when the big box store came about, he couldn't compete, and after nearly 40 years, went out of business.

It was the mom and pop opereations that we all grew up on and helped build the hobby, so, what do we have now???

Yes indeed, the box stores can buy in volume, because they get "deals" which the smaller local hobby shop can't get.

But, if the big box stores want to sell product, they need to check their inventory and not depend upoin a computerized system.

Many retailers are amazed when, once a year they take physical inventory, the numbers just don't match.

So, WM figures that Estes products aren't selling, they order less and the customer suffers, if WM had the merchandise to sell, and kept a better handle on inventory control, they would sell more, and be inclined to get more.

Like I mentioned before, inorder to "educate" WM, we need to contact them, telling them just what we want.

I had suggested to Estes to place D motors back into WM, I was told that it is up to WM to make that decision, if I were the sales rep representing Est4es, I would give them an "education" on the product and offer to them the "facts" about the hobby.

You need variety, you need up to date stock, and you need to bring in new items, not the same old stuff, that, after awhile, everyone will eventually have.

They should be looking for repeat customers, not the one timers, it's repeat customers that keeps the business going.

Hopefully things at WM will change in the future, if it's true about D powered RTF's, maybe theere is a chance for a turnaround.

[Shreadvector]

What about D powered RTFs ???


And I hit several dozen Wal-Marts in my region and I see wildly varying modroc selections. And the selection varys from week to week at the same store.

I do minor tidying (I don't alphabetize or re-arrange, I just consolidate loose and jumbled motor packs in the boxes).

My main reason for going in is to apply the small stickers to every single motor pack, starter and launch set and any remaining Launchables. I always check in with a toy dept associate and let them know I'm there to put the stickers on the rocket kits so the customers know how they can legally launch their model rockets. ($1000 fine and/or up to a year in jail for EACH launch without a permit in the entire state of CA. It is a state fire regulation. CA has fires, in case anybody was not aware.)

See attached sticker file.

[ghrocketman]

Unbelievable all the regs, laws, permits, taxes, over-regulation, liberals and flat out GARBAGE you people in Taxafornia have to put up with.
I'm sure they have PLENTY of bozos to enforce all the laws and rules out there due to the over-taxation as well.

If they tried to pass even 1/4 of the crapola you guys on the left coast put up with in my area of the country, the politicians would probably be ran straight off a pier into Lake Michigan.

I know you guys have fires, but ADULTS should be able to use their OWN judgement to determine if something is safe ENOUGH for themselves individually without some baloney permit.

[Doug Sams]

It's also possible that the fault does not lie with WalMart, but with a supplier who pumps a "recommended" product combination into the pipeline.Al,

That is not uncommon, but for most cases, it's intended to apply only for the initial stocking package. After that, the retailer's computers are _supposed_ kick in and provide enough info to tweak the subsequent order mixes to be inline with what sells well.

However, it does indeed appear that in many cases the same misfit assortment gets sent over and over.

I do suspect that some of the time, the manufacturer is pushing a certain mix in order to maximize profits or get rid of excess stock with the result that the retailer ends up with some slow movers taking up the shelf space to the detriment of the consumer, the retailer and the manufacturer. That'd be a lose-lose-lose deal, eh?

Frankly, I think a lot of it really comes down to retailing executives not being good IT managers. I suspect these guys purchase giant POS packages for their stores and offices, and are promised all kinds of capabilities by the POS vendor (eg, NCR). Then, after the equipment is installed and running, they discover that either they need expen$ive additional software to properly manage the inventory, or that their IT staff doesn't have the skills to make the existing software do what's needed. (IE, they're too cheap to hire real programmers.)

In fact, I think this is the reason that Hobbly Lobby, in this new millenium, decided to forego networked POS equipment. The executives' prior experience with poor POS data probably led them to say screw it instead of figuring out how to effectively use the POS equipment and data.

Doug

[Doug Sams]

You want a bigger example of this? Look through the grocery section for your favorite items. Chances are, you'll find an open space on the shelf where it should be. Not just something else in its place, but open space. The WM here at my front door (literally) is horrible about maintaining stock on the shelves. Other WMs in Mobile are just as bad, some better, others worse.

The problem is systemic, not simply localized.Craig,

Keep in mind that the food biz has its own peculiarities. Their turns ratios can exceed 365 times (per year). That is, some products will get delivered more than once per day. Things like milk and bread get replenished daily, so if you're seeing those spaces empty, you may just be coming in at the wrong time of day. (I imagine you're aware of that.)

That said, with some retailers, especially WalMart, my theory is that they will let the shelf go empty while they're haggling with a supplier over a deal. I know they put lots of price pressure on those guys, and that sometimes the suppliers say 'no thanks'.

Plus, in this era, suppliers are often delegated a particular chunk of shelf space and will frequently change their product mix trying to optimize revenue. These changes invariably cause delays which often result in the shelf being empty IMO. For example, being diabetic, I look for lots of low-carb stuff. There's a snack bar called "South Beach Diet" that is hit-or-miss at WalMart. Having watched them change the brand name and logo along with tweaking the product, I get the impression this availability issue has as much to do with Kraft Foods as it does WalMart product management.

OTOH, I get sugar free popsicles there, too, and the availability on those is inconsistent. But they haven't changed in forever, so I suspect it's WalMart product management causing the issue in this case.

I guess there's some incompetence, or at least inattentiveness, on both sides.

Doug

[Doug Sams]

I know you guys have fires, but ADULTS should be able to use their OWN judgement to determine if something is safe ENOUGH for themselves individually without some baloney permit.GH,

Ordinarily I'd agree that California is way over-regulated, but in this case, it's been shown over and over how vulnerable to fire they are. Just ask any of the thousands affected by the recent fires. While their motor certification process may be a bureaucratic pain, their motor _use_ regulations are certainly justified.

Doug

[Rocket Doctor]

What about D powered RTFs ???


And I hit several dozen Wal-Marts in my region and I see wildly varying modroc selections. And the selection varys from week to week at the same store.

I do minor tidying (I don't alphabetize or re-arrange, I just consolidate loose and jumbled motor packs in the boxes).

My main reason for going in is to apply the small stickers to every single motor pack, starter and launch set and any remaining Launchables. I always check in with a toy dept associate and let them know I'm there to put the stickers on the rocket kits so the customers know how they can legally launch their model rockets. ($1000 fine and/or up to a year in jail for EACH launch without a permit in the entire state of CA. It is a state fire regulation. CA has fires, in case anybody was not aware.)

See attached sticker file.


Fred

If you read through some of the recent threads, rumor has it, that Estes has/will produce a D power RTF for WM.

There was a rocket display in Texas not too long ago, whre Estes sent Ann Grimm and John Boren, who, as it has been described, had a booth with both vintage kits and new stuff. This would be quite a change from their closed mouth approach from the past.

In my opinion, we do not need a C powered RTF, RTF are for beginners, not for someone to get this as their first kit and launch their rocket into orbit and be upset by loosing that rocket.

I think that the toy dept manager need to take an educational course into their products to let them know what they are all about, especially for model rockets, the wrong information will only harm out great hobby.
Ken

[tbzep]

I know you guys have fires, but ADULTS should be able to use their OWN judgement to determine if something is safe ENOUGH for themselves individually without some baloney permit.

They should, but unfortunately many of them don't. As a firefighter, I see extremely stupid crap that people do all the time. Sometimes it is because they are idiots, sometimes it's because they don't give a rat's butt about anything or anybody, sometimes it's out of pure meanness.

[Shreadvector]

They should, but unfortunately many of them don't. As a firefighter, I see extremely stupid crap that people do all the time. Sometimes it is because they are idiots, sometimes it's because they don't give a rat's butt about anything or anybody, sometimes it's out of pure meanness.

Thank you. I have observed people launching Model Rockets continuously since 1970. In groups, clubs and as individuals on their own. Those on their own are sometimes simply ignorant - they have not learned the basics or read the instructions.

LA County Fire has a special School Inspections Unit (several offices scattered around the county) that has Inspectors who handle all school inspections and permits. Thei Model Rocket permit program is pretty good - they actually talk to the teacher and find out if they understand some basics (like delay time) and they inspect the launch site to make sure the rockets cannot reach neighboring houses, streets or dry brush. They often limit the power level on the permits. They have had experience with teachers who started brush fires because they did not understand what they were doing.

Then there is the Yorba Linda fire started by a kid with his Estes starter set - he KNEW he needed a permit but he went to the end of the block and launched anyway - right where the housing tract ended and the brush covered hills began. I saw that one from 20 miles away while driving home from work that day. The OC Register did an EXCELLENT job of covereing that fire, blaming the kid and providing a large sub-article explaining where people go to launch Model Rockets legally and safely.

Libertarianism does not work in the real world, just like Socialism does not work in the real world.

If folks want anarchy, go to Somalia.

[ghrocketman]

Not a question of anarchy, I just flat out HATE that elected officials somehow think they are responsible for playing "parent" to adults and they could not possibly make intelligent decisions on their own without some stinkin' permit.

Anyone that does something foolish/stupid such as starting wildfires in Cali belongs in one place, known as a PRISON.

Anybody that thinks some permit will EVER do even one iota to prevent stupidity is fooling themselves.

Here in Michigan we have locally or statewide issued "burn bans" when conditions are too dry to legally have outdoor burning for anything but cooking. If you don't follow it, you can go to jail/prison/or have a hefty fine....we however don't need any permits for launching model rockets in a safe manner. Anyone who launches over a tinderbox/dry field and starts a fire with large $$$ damage is most likely going to jail.

[Rocket Doctor]

Education, education, education.............if individuals would only read and follow the instructions, instead of thingking that they know what they are doing, without having a clue about the hobby.

I have seen this many times over and over again, at 4H building sessions, the kids say, "I know what I am doing" and "I've built rockets before", but, the bottom line is, look at their rocket, does it really look like one.......NO.They don't want to follow the instructor, they don't want to follow directions, then, when something happens, it's the parents pointing fingers.

I would repeat over and over again, knives are sharp be carful and put the safety caps back on, I had one parent say, we heard that, we don't need to ehar it again, but, who would be the first one to say, my child got cut, this and that.

I say act and not react...............

[Shreadvector]

You example is not "anarchy" it is "libertarianism" and it does not work in the real world, just like "socialism" does not work. If someone starts a fire because they are an adult and they can do whatever they want , and if there is an accident they can be put in jail to punish them, it does not bring back the $1BILLION in housing destroyed or the lives lost. By having a law, you can declare that causing a death as a result of illegal buring or use of illegal fireworks or illegal use of legal fireworks or arson is MURDER.

And MURDER it is. Just like the youths who recently broke into someone's house here is So Cal. They had broken in before and they came back while the homeowner was home. They homeowner had the lights out (sleeping? go look it up in the news...) and when they kicked in the front door he responded with gunfire. Fatally wounded one youth. The other youths were charged with murder since the death occurred as a result of the commission of a crime. No charges for the homeowner.

Back to your example, it sounds like you are in favor of rich people being able to walk up and shoot others in the head, then write a check to cover the loss. $250,000 to $500,000 should cover it. That is Libertarianism at it's finest: Do whatever you want as long as you have insurance or cash to pay the victims (or their beneficiaries).

Why have laws about driving while drunk?

Why have laws about airline pilots flying while drunk?

After all, Airline Pilots are not only "Adults", they are highly trained adults! Absolutely NONE of them would EVER fly while drunk!!! Making "rules"/"regulations"/"laws" to treat them like children is insulting, and all airline passengers and everyone in the flight path (or impact zone) knows this!

Not a question of anarchy, I just flat out HATE that elected officials somehow think they are responsible for playing "parent" to adults and they could not possibly make intelligent decisions on their own without some stinkin' permit.

Anyone that does something foolish/stupid such as starting wildfires in Cali belongs in one place, known as a PRISON.

Anybody that thinks some permit will EVER do even one iota to prevent stupidity is fooling themselves.

Here in Michigan we have locally or statewide issued "burn bans" when conditions are too dry to legally have outdoor burning for anything but cooking. If you don't follow it, you can go to jail/prison/or have a hefty fine....we however don't need any permits for launching model rockets in a safe manner. Anyone who launches over a tinderbox/dry field and starts a fire with large $$$ damage is most likely going to jail.

[ghrocketman]

Fred:
That is NOT what I meant; there is NO WAY that I feel that your example should be allowed as long as you can pay for it. How you EVER interpreted that from my statement is beyond me.

I however think that being able to charge ANYONE with murder without establishing an undeniable link of INTENT to kill is prosecutorial zealotism at it's WORST.

In my opinion (and uses some sense of LOGIC, not knee-jerk reactionism) for example if someone is killed by a drunk driver, the driver should be able to be charged with manslaughter as someone died without any intent on the accused to actually cause the event. Just engaging in the activity should not allow a murder charge unless one can prove that the person behind the wheel had INTENT to run down the other using the vehicle as a weapon. Just because the driver was drunk should not be any basis whatsoever for establishing his/her intent.

And no I do not think that engaging in any sort of potentially hazardous activity (flying rockets, playing with matches, drunk driving, owning a gorilla, etc) should EVER automatically cause the law to judge one of having intent to kill with no logical basis.

And before anyone says I bet you never have had to deal with the results of a drunk driver, yes I have. I have had a relative killed by a drunk driver, and no, it did NOT cause my sense of logic to be suspended by any sort of knee-jerk reactionary emotion demanding the perpetrator to be charged with murder. The charge should be no different if they were sober or drunk....accidental death of a person caused by a vehicle where the driver is at fault should result in a vehicular homicide or manslaughter charge, but never murder.

What I will say is that in 99% of all cases if the choice is making a law that will supposedly cause some sort of greater societal collective good by taking away individual freedoms, I always side with preserving individual freedom as long as what the person is doing does not cause immediate irreversible medically measurable/quantifiable physical harm to another.

[ScaleNut]

what does this soapbox tirade have to do with Walmart rockets? jeeze get a grip of yourselves people

[F_O_G]

I sent an email to the Wal-Mart corporate office, yesterday I received a call from the assistant manager of my local Wal-Mart.

I was told that the store (local) would not be carrying Estes products anymore due to lack of sale in this area.

I asked about nation wide, I was also told that if sales aren't there, a product is dropped.

So,it depends upon local and sales, some areas better than others.

I was also told that there may be some items available for the holiday season, but, I would have to check next month.

Right now WM is resetting their stores for Halloween, Thabksgiving Day and Christmas.

I was also told that it's the consumer who dictates what WM will carry and not only should you speak to the manager of your local WM, but, also send an inquiry into corporate as well.

Then I was told that if you wanted something in quantity, you could have it special ordered.

I was told by a former VP at Estes not to contact WM, this was the wrong approach, the more requests that WM gets, the better chance that they will carry an item.

It's the demand that gets the supplies, only makes sence to me.

Post feedback here about your local WM so we can figure out where rockets are being sold and not being sold.

Is it possible to do an online petition to get wal*mart to sell rockets again? Because the wal*mart in my area doesn't sell rockets either.

[Rocket Doctor]

I would suggest sending actual letters to WM Corporate office, it's hard to find an email address for thier headquarters, and, they pass it around to the local level.

My inquiry had nothing to do with the local store per se.

Only by getting together and voicing our concerns, will they listen to us, their loyal customers.

[Gus]

So yesterday I went to my local Walmart and they have more rockets in stock than they had all summer.

Go figure. :confused:

Mostly RTFs and Starter Sets but lots of the variety packs of motors (the shelf display which sells C6-3s, C6-5s, and A8-3s). There were 3 launchables kits, one of which was a Space Ship One, which they haven't had for at least 6 - 8 months. Where that one came from I have no idea. Maybe it had something to do with my comment about how they could sell a gross of them if they had them. :rolleyes:

Sometimes it's hard to understand how Walmart became the nation's biggest retailer.

[CPMcGraw]

...Sometimes it's hard to understand how Walmart became the nation's biggest retailer...

Two words: Sam Walton.

It's the difference between one person with a vision, and a group of people just trying to fill his shoes...

They're having a hard enough time filling his shelves...

[Rocket Doctor]

Sam Walton is long gone, and, his vision has certainly changed over the years. I think the problem with WM is their inventory control methods. They need to do an on site inventory count of what they actually have. Ealch store should do the same, it will be time consuming, but, this is the only way that they actually know what they have. And, I bet that their numbers will be quite different than those generated by their computer ordering system.

As far as more rocketry product, they either had stock in inventory, or, they are geaing up for Christmas, I was told by a assistant manager, that, WM could bring in more product for the holiday selling season.

What WM needs, is someone to educate them as to what their customers want and have those items available for purchase.

As I said before, I spoke to the manager of the toy dept, and told her that the !10-3T's aren't going to sell, because they have sat there for months (14 packages) and that they should get a better mix of motors. Unless they carry what the customer wants, they WONT have sales. And, without sales, WM assumes that the items don't sell.

It's a vicious cycle that needs to be broken.

[Doug Sams]

I think the problem with WM is their inventory control methods. I was thinking about this in light of my comments about using their POS data to understand what really sells and what doesn't, then it occurred to me that in all likelihood the computer inventory doesn't differentiate what's on the shelf at eye level and what's up high, out of reach or in the warehouse still in the box.

If they did actually run a report which depicted what's in stock and how fast it moved, and they saw 10 Launchable Orbital Transports, for example, sitting in stock for a month without moving, they would logically conclude it's a slow mover. Only if they know for sure it was on the shelf and not in the back would this be reliable.

The key is getting the stockers to correctly enter the data into the computer when they place items on the shelf. And I'm doubtful the inventory software out there is that detailed.

If it's Charmin, and they have half an aisle, you can get a good idea of the run rates without knowing this type of info, but when it's Estes and they have 2 linear feet of shelf, even with very detail oriented inventory software, any mis-care of placing items on the shelf will throw the run-rate numbers out of whack.

Doug

[Phred]

As a former retail manager (books) , I am leaning towards the actual inventory vs system inventory discrepancy. It is simply unbelieveable how many items grow legs and simply 'walk away' even in one year. Rocket motors are small, and easily fit into the pocket of any unscrupulous cad who chooses the five finger discount plan.

I bet that Walmart's computer system thinks that they have more motors which actually have been swiped.

Why won't these darned motors sell? Well, it is because they are not really here.....

Phred

[Rocket Doctor]

As I have mentioned, they need to do a full physical inventory, and compare the figures to the computer records to see how far they are off.

As far as motors go, with WM, they purchase a master shelf pack with X motors in it, it really doesn't tell them the individual coding on the motors because all the motors sell for the same price.

So, this is why my WM ends up with 14 packs of A10-3T's that haven't sold in months, and, the motors that everyone needs just don't exist.

Like I mentioned before, WM should be able to purchase individual packs of motors to resupply their master packs with the needed motors.

WM should be able to select motors for their master packs instead of having no choice in the matter.

And like I said, WM gets upset that rockets don't sell, well, if you have the same old, same old, they won't sell................Duh !!!!!!!

[Shreadvector]

Inventory system comment: Ever actually buy a quantity of items at Wal-Mart and watch how the expert cashier handles it? EXAMPLE: 24 cans of assorted flavors of cat food cans - they scan one flavor and type in "24" for the qty. The computer now thinks that one flavor is the most popular and sends a pull signal to have more of that one flavor delivered to re-stock the store.

Nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong.....

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070909/trailers-screenplay-E13052-310

[F_O_G]

Two words: Sam Walton.

Who's that?

Does anybody know the address of WM headquarters?

[Carl@Semroc]

Who's that?

Does anybody know the address of WM headquarters?
Sam['s Club] Wal[-Mart]ton

[Royatl]

Bentonville, Arkansas

Doubt that you need anything more precise than that, unless you're going to drive up to the front door of the corporate offices.

[Rocket Doctor]

Mr. Lee Scott,CEO
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
702 South West Eighth Street
Bentonville Arkansas 72716

I sent an email and haven't received any comments yet.

Goo luck...

[Rocket Doctor]

Just got back from my local WM, all decked out in it's holiday flair, went to the infamous toy aisle to see if anything has changed in the rocket selection. Here is what I found.

MOTORS
15 packs A10-3& mini's

1 pack A8-3

1 pack C6-3

6 packs C6-5

2 packs C6-7

STARTER SETS

3 Patriot

3 Launchables twin pack

ONe more packs of A10-3T's and a couple more kit, both, side by side now............WOW

[F_O_G]

Sam['s Club] Wal[-Mart]ton

Sounds like he's full of himself.

[CPMcGraw]

Sounds like he's full of himself.

He knew more about bulk-buying and turn-around than many of his contemporaries of the 1960's and 1970's.

Sam Walton died back in 1992...

[ScaleNut]

As I have mentioned, they need to do a full physical inventory

they do , but only once or twice a year