Centuri Black Widow

[dtomko]

How great is Semroc? On Thursday I ordered a bunch of parts and they arrived today. It's like having the kit itself, plus extras for other projects. I especially like the laser-cut "Black Widow" logo on the fin stock.

Drew Tomko

[Ltvscout]

plus extras for other projects.
Heh, I was wondering what you were going to do with those engine lock clips. ;)

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

How great is Semroc? On Thursday I ordered a bunch of parts and they arrived today. It's like having the kit itself, plus extras for other projects. I especially like the laser-cut "Black Widow" logo on the fin stock.

Drew Tomko

I've kept the logos from all of the Semroc kits I've built. Not sure what I might do with them, but they're too cool to just toss away.

[Carl@Semroc]

How great is Semroc? THANKS from all of us!!

I especially like the laser-cut "Black Widow" logo on the fin stock.

Drew Tomko
Should have sent the decal. That is about the only thing missing.

[dtomko]

THANKS from all of us!!


Should have sent the decal. That is about the only thing missing.

Carl,
You mean you have the decal??
Drew

[Eagle3]

Carl,
You mean you have the decal??
Drew

Got a part number and price Carl? My order is going in today. :D

Buzz

[Carl@Semroc]

Got a part number and price Carl? My order is going in today. :D

Buzz
I will have to find it. The part number is DKV-5, but it is not online. Krellvinator again! I will try to get it online. In the meantime, put it in the notes!

[dtomko]

Argh! I followed the dimensions on the plans on JimZ's site, which I guess are for an older version. The booster tube should be 3 1/2" not 4"! The laser cut fins won't work on the longer tube. With a 3 1/2" tube you only need one inside tube coupler. Luckily I test fit before gluing, so I can just cut off an inch.

Buzz, I hope you read this before ordering!

Drew

[Eagle3]

Thanks for the heads up. Haven't placed the order yet. Was waiting on the decal info. Thanks Drew and Carl!

[dtomko]

So after gnashing of the teeth and cutting of the tube, I finished the booster. Hard to believe this thing is actually going to glide with a spent engine in it, but . . . .
Drew

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

When's the first glide test?

[dtomko]

When's the first glide test?
15 minutes ago. Dropped like a set of keys onto the couch. I suppose I'l have to try it outside in the daylight.

[tbzep]

So after gnashing of the teeth and cutting of the tube, I finished the booster. Hard to believe this thing is actually going to glide with a spent engine in it, but . . . .
Drew

Nice smooth airfoil! Hopefully you will get better drop test results next time out.

[Ltvscout]

So after gnashing of the teeth and cutting of the tube, I finished the booster. Hard to believe this thing is actually going to glide with a spent engine in it, but . . . .
Drew
Hmmm, did the original have those reinforcing pieces along the root? I don't remember that on mine. If not, that could affect the "glide." ;)

[dtomko]

Hmmm, did the original have those reinforcing pieces along the root? I don't remember that on mine. If not, that could affect the "glide." ;)
They are on it at least as far back as the '71 catalog, when it appears the fins changed and the booster got smaller. Hard to tell in the earlier shots.
They're a good idea to prevent fin shredding, but you're right, probably not great for glide rates!
Drew

[Doug Sams]

Examining the Black Widow got me thinking about other staged rockets, particularly 3-stage rockets. What other 3-stage kits have there been?

1. Comanche-3 24-18-18
2. Farside/Farside-X 18-18-18

3. MPC ???

4. Centuri?

I've now done the Comanche and a couple of 3-stage Midgets (13-13-13). I'm thinking I need to do another. A Farside with a 24mm 1st stage could take a C11-0. That might be a good alternative to the B14-0 - ie, get it off the pad with authority without going into orbit before staging. I was really pleased flying my Comanche on a C11-B6-A8 combo.

I also did a 3-stage Tuber, but it crawled off the rod - too much weight for the 1st stage D12-0. That's where something in the range D20 to E40 would be perfect.

BTW, the booster on the attached rkt file usually glides.

Doug

...

Addendum: Okay, the upload didn't work (invalid file type - rkt - huh??). Here's a link:
http://home.flash.net/~samily/supergee/SuperGee.rkt
WDS

[dtomko]

Centuri T-Bird and Arrow 300

[stefanj]

MPC had a three-stager, called the Microsonde III:

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/nostalgia/74avi06.html

The T-Bird wins the Coolest Looking Three Stager contest.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

No doubt. That's a definite future project.

[Nuke Rocketeer]

They are on it at least as far back as the '71 catalog, when it appears the fins changed and the booster got smaller. Hard to tell in the earlier shots.
They're a good idea to prevent fin shredding, but you're right, probably not great for glide rates!
Drew

I've got a black widow booster from a 1970 kit (the sustainer died in a cato) that glided for almost two minutes when launched on a C5-0. It came down in a nice tight 20-30 ft spiral.

Joe W

[Doug Sams]

No doubt. That's a definite future project.

Which one? The Microsonde III, the T-Bird or the Arrow 300?

Doug

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Yes. :cool:

[Doug Sams]

Centuri T-Bird and Arrow 300
Thanks, Drew.

I like them both. I'm not sure the Arrow is really enough different from the Comanche to make it worh the effort, and the external staging couplers are hard to get used to :)

The T-Bird looks kewl. The fins look kinda like the Comanche's.

Doug

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

MPC had a three-stager, called the Microsonde III:

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/nostalgia/74avi06.html



I see these for sale all the time. There's a link out there somewhere to a place that sells old MPC kits. Some of them are linked to reviews written by the guy that's built a bunch of the kits. I'll see if I can hunt the link up.

[Doug Sams]

MPC had a three-stager, called the Microsonde III

Yeah, that's the one. It has some eye appeal, but the fins are too pointy for my taste. I'm afraid the boosters will come in ballistic. I can't see them gliding or tumbling.

The T-Bird wins the Coolest Looking Three Stager contest.
Agreed.

But I think I'm gonna do a 3-stage Midget with a C11 1st stage.

Doug

[CPMcGraw]

Addendum: Okay, the upload didn't work (invalid file type - rkt - huh??).

You have to package the RKT file into a ZIP file. The forum recognizes ZIPs...

Craig...

[dtomko]

Back down to two stages . . . .
Finished up the major assembly; still have to fillet the upper stage and then fill and sand. I am ambitious enough to attempt the cool black with white trim scheme from the mid to late 70s catalogs. OK, I haven't figured out how exactly I'm going to mask that off, but give me a little time . . .
A few assembly notes: I marked the fin lines before gluing on the outside adapter to make it easier to use a drawer sill. I tried to get the holes in the coupler away from the fins, but with two holes and three fins, one hole is a bit close to a fin so could be some scorching. The outside coupler would not go over the booster BT without a lot of sanding to the BT and inside of the coupler. I suppose the inner coupler in the booster swelled the BT a bit. I added a strip of balsa as a launch lug standoff, since the outside coupler is thicker than the BT. I also moved the lug down below the upper edge of the fin to hide it a little. So I'm not a purist. BTW, it doesn't stand up straight; the "rudder" on the booster sticks out farther than the other two fins. No big deal.
Drew

[Eagle3]

Thanks for the notes Drew. It looks sweet so far. Good luck on the paint job! I ordered my parts yesterday for the Black Widow and a few other clones. :) Have you managed to get the booster to glide yet?

[dtomko]

Thanks for the notes Drew. It looks sweet so far. Good luck on the paint job! I ordered my parts yesterday for the Black Widow and a few other clones. :) Have you managed to get the booster to glide yet?


Yesterday we had horrendous thunderstorms blow through in the afternoon, so the landing site was a little too wet for a test!

[dtomko]

Got a couple coats of primer on it yesterday. Perfect painting weather; just wish I had more time and more stuff ready to paint!

[dtomko]

Here it is painted glossy black. I decided to go with either Trim Monokote or white decal paper for the white areas on the body and fins; the nose cone is white also. The Monokote is pretty thick and it would probably take two layers of white decal to cover the black, so now I don't know. I'll have to experiment.

[dtomko]

I finally got back to this one tonight, and began the white sections. First I used a sheet of paper to trace the fin and lay out the patterns. I cut the patterns out and transferred them to the Trim Monokote (this is a pain; a pencil barely made a clear line on the stuff). After cutting these out, I applied, dabbing some water with a little dish detergent on the back of the Monokote and the rocket. It's still very sticky, so I got about 1 1/2 tries. The Monokote really adheres nicely and is opaque. It's also really thin. Needs some touch up, but overall, I'm liking the results.
Drew Tomko

[dtomko]

I'm finished with the Monokote. It didn't work so well over the booster fin reinforcements. Those will need some paint touch up.

[CPMcGraw]

I'm finished with the Monokote. It didn't work so well over the booster fin reinforcements. Those will need some paint touch up.

Minor touch-ups, from what I can see...

Have you already clear coated the model, or am I just looking at a photo taken in a yellowish light environment? The white MonoKote looks more like cream in these shots...

[dtomko]

Have you already clear coated the model, or am I just looking at a photo taken in a yellowish light environment? The white MonoKote looks more like cream in these shots...

That's just the lousy lighting in my dining room; the Monokote is a nice, bright white. I still need to get the logo decal from Carl and then I will coat with Future.
I should have used separate, smaller pieces for the areas around the booster fin reinforcements. I may try to patch with Monokote instead of painting.

[Eagle3]

Hey Drew, it looks great to me. Can't wait to hear the flight report.

I worked on mine a little last night. Got the BT's and balsa filled finally. I'm thinking of doing the opposite of what you did with the fins though. I'm thinking of painting them white and using black trim monokote for the black sections.

[dtomko]

I'm thinking of doing the opposite of what you did with the fins though. I'm thinking of painting them white and using black trim monokote for the black sections.
I went back and forth on that. The fins would definitely be easier to cover with black Monokote, but the BT would be tougher.

[dtomko]

Got the decal from Semroc and touched up the white a bit. The logo decal is backed in white so it stands out a bit from the Monokote background. Some of rthe edges of the Monokote are lifting a little around the curves, but it's sticking well for the most part. Hopefully I can get a flight in this weekend or next.
Drew

[Eagle3]

Very cool Drew! Looks good enough to be in the old catalog. How is the booster gliding for you? IIRC you were still working on trimming it.

My Black Widow clone has finally made it to the front of the list on the workbench and I got quite a bit done on it last night. Currently working on the that, my rocketflite USS Odyssey, and a 137% Centuri Stiletto clone. The Stiletto is looking sweet. :)

[Nuke Rocketeer]

I have an old Black Widow booster that I built a new sustainer for last year. The booster always turned in a good glide, 2 minutes or so on a C6 or C5 engine in nice 50 ft or so circles. The last time I shot it was at a PSC monthly launch this year.

[sandman]

Your model is making me drool!! :o

I just love your color scheme!...Yes I will be copying it (if you don't mind).

The Black Widow was a rocket I coveted when it first came out and I finally bought one back in about 1962 or 1963.

I flew it on a B14-0 to a C6...something...

Shredded the fins on the booster and the sustainer just plain dissapeared.

So is SEMROC going to come out with it??

I hope, I hope, I hope!

[dtomko]

Sandman,
The color scheme is straight from the catalog; copy away! I love the look of it with the black and white trim. You can get all the parts right from Semroc and it's a pretty easy clone. Those B-14s were real fin shredders; maybe that's why they added the balsa fillets to the booster.

I had to add clay to the front bottom of the booster and it sort of glides now. 2 minutes, wow! I'll be really surprised if mine glides that long!
Drew

[Eagle3]

...

So is SEMROC going to come out with it??

I hope, I hope, I hope!

I'm guessing that since Carl has the decal laser cut fins that it's a for sure deal. ;)

[Ltvscout]

I flew it on a B14-0 to a C6...something...

Shredded the fins on the booster and the sustainer just plain dissapeared.

So is SEMROC going to come out with it??

I hope, I hope, I hope!
Come out with what, a B14? I hope, I hope, I hope! ;)

[sandman]

No, silly!

I meant the Black Widow! :rolleyes:

A B14-0 would be nice though... ;)

[Nuke Rocketeer]

Come out with what, a B14? I hope, I hope, I hope! ;)

Man, you think with all this wishing for a B14, some enterprising guy would make a few. This subject comes up on the Old Rockets Forum all the time (sometimes by me), causing me to go burn one or two more of my precious stash. While we're at it why not ask for F100's, F7's and E60's again!

Joe W

[Ltvscout]

Man, you think with all this wishing for a B14, some enterprising guy would make a few. This subject comes up on the Old Rockets Forum all the time (sometimes by me), causing me to go burn one or two more of my precious stash. While we're at it why not ask for F100's, F7's and E60's again!

Joe W
Heh, I'm always asking for more BP motors, Joe!

[Ltvscout]

No, silly!

I meant the Black Widow! :rolleyes:

A B14-0 would be nice though... ;)
Oh, the Black Widow. :p That's a given. If it was made by Centuri, I think we're going to see most of the catalog appear at Semroc at some point in time. At least I'm hoping we will. ;)

[Nuke Rocketeer]

It must be a conditioned response from some of us when the B14 is mentioned. We start daydreaming about launching them, with a little drool dribbling out the side of our mouths, just at the thought of someone re-starting their manufacture.

Some people say that we are now in the "Golden Age" of Model Rocketry with all the new stuff for sale out there, but as far a a choice of BP engines, the late 60's and early 70's were the golden age. All you have to do to see that is just look at the choice of engine manufacturers and the range of engines available then. Estes, Centuri, AVI, Semroc, Cox, FSI, Enerjet, etc. Nowadays, for BP, there is just Estes and Quest offerring pretty much the same engines and AT making the composites.

Joe W

[dtomko]

Flew the Black Widow this morning on a B6-0 to A8-3 combo. The thing screamed off the pad and staged pretty high. It was a perfect boost and second stage ignition. The booster came down in a fairly steep dive, so I used a bit too much clay, but it landed with no damage. The second stage flew almost out of sight. Fortunately there was no wind; this thing took forever to come down on the 12" chute. My son had to hop a fence to get it, but that was OK by him :D I really wasn't expecting it to go so high. So, I set my digital camera to "movie" and got the liftoff, smoke trail, and little else :mad: The only damage is the fishpaper coupler peeled a bit at the spiral seam and the top of the BT of the booster seems to have swelled a bit because the stages won't go together. Nothing a little sanding and CA won't fix. Next time I think I will cut a spill hole in the chute. Thumbs up for this one!
Drew

[Ltvscout]

Flew the Black Widow this morning on a B6-0 to A8-3 combo. The thing screamed off the pad and staged pretty high. It was a perfect boost and second stage ignition. The booster came down in a fairly steep dive, so I used a bit too much clay, but it landed with no damage. The second stage flew almost out of sight. Fortunately there was no wind; this thing took forever to come down on the 12" chute. My son had to hop a fence to get it, but that was OK by him :D I really wasn't expecting it to go so high. So, I set my digital camera to "movie" and got the liftoff, smoke trail, and little else :mad: The only damage is the fishpaper coupler peeled a bit at the spiral seam and the top of the BT of the booster seems to have swelled a bit because the stages won't go together. Nothing a little sanding and CA won't fix. Next time I think I will cut a spill hole in the chute. Thumbs up for this one!
Drew
Being a two-stage, I would think an A8-5 would be a better choice for the sustainer. You didn't have any signs of zippering or Estes dents?

[dtomko]

Nope, no dents, but I used a pretty long shock cord. the flight was spur of the moment and A8-3s were all I had. Next time I'll be better prepared!

[Ltvscout]

Nope, no dents, but I used a pretty long shock cord. the flight was spur of the moment and A8-3s were all I had. Next time I'll be better prepared!
I'm glad everything went well. I wouldn't want that nice finish marred any. ;)

[kurtschachner]

Argh! I followed the dimensions on the plans on JimZ's site, which I guess are for an older version. The booster tube should be 3 1/2" not 4"! The laser cut fins won't work on the longer tube. With a 3 1/2" tube you only need one inside tube coupler. Luckily I test fit before gluing, so I can just cut off an inch.

Buzz, I hope you read this before ordering!

Drew

I am confused. I just got mostly done building a clone using Carl's laser cut fins (gotta love laser cut fins) and the plans from JimZ's site. Everything looks fine. You do need two couplers though, one that fits completely inside the booster state (1 1/2 inches long) and one that fits over the outside of the body tube (available on Semroc's site). The dimensions are correct as-is.

Now if you were building the really old one on Scott's site, then yeah I suppose the booster is too long. But the fins are different and you wouldn't be using the laser cut ones then.

You must have been using the patterns on Scott's site and cutting them by hand. I just wanted those who may be buying Semroc's fins to know that the plans on JimZ's site appear correct to me for those fins. One thing that is way wrong though is the placement of the Mylar lock ring. I'd suggest you pre-position it using the fin notches as a guide, and then gluing it in place. The instructions don't give a real clear indication of the position, only the glue line ( 1 1/4") which is too high.

[dtomko]

I am confused. I just got mostly done building a clone using Carl's laser cut fins (gotta love laser cut fins) and the plans from JimZ's site. Everything looks fine. You do need two couplers though, one that fits completely inside the booster state (1 1/2 inches long) and one that fits over the outside of the body tube (available on Semroc's site). The dimensions are correct as-is.

Now if you were building the really old one on Scott's site, then yeah I suppose the booster is too long. But the fins are different and you wouldn't be using the laser cut ones then.

You must have been using the patterns on Scott's site and cutting them by hand. I just wanted those who may be buying Semroc's fins to know that the plans on JimZ's site appear correct to me for those fins. One thing that is way wrong though is the placement of the Mylar lock ring. I'd suggest you pre-position it using the fin notches as a guide, and then gluing it in place. The instructions don't give a real clear indication of the position, only the glue line ( 1 1/4") which is too high.

Kurt,
I used the Semroc laser-cut fins, but I went by the instructions for the lock ring position. That set the fins way off and I just assumed the tube length was wrong, so I had to lop off a piece of the booster BT to make the fins fit. I didn't even think about repostioning the ring until you mentioned it. But mine flies just fine with the shorter booster. I found the real issue with the Black Widow is the amount of burn on the stage coupler from the exhaust of the upper stage engine. I would suggest coating the inside of it with CA before flight.
Drew

[kurtschachner]

I just got mostly done building a clone

OK, I am finishing it up now. One of the last things I have to do is glue on the staging coupler and the upper stage engine block. This is weird, you glue the block in with the engine flush to the upper stage body tube. So it is recessed all the way into the tube, PLUS the staging coupler is glued onto the end of the upper stage! So that means not only do you have nothing to grip onto to remove the engine, its also recessed into the coupler. Anyone else see this or am I not doing something right? You'd have an easier time playing pickup sticks with your butt cheeks than removing that engine.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

You'd have an easier time playing pickup sticks with your butt cheeks than removing that engine.

Be sure to do some warm-ups if you attempt this. And don't bother "chalking up". :eek:
Nice visual, Kurt. Ever have a Wiedemann? ;)

[dtomko]

OK, I am finishing it up now. One of the last things I have to do is glue on the staging coupler and the upper stage engine block. This is weird, you glue the block in with the engine flush to the upper stage body tube. So it is recessed all the way into the tube, PLUS the staging coupler is glued onto the end of the upper stage! So that means not only do you have nothing to grip onto to remove the engine, its also recessed into the coupler. Anyone else see this or am I not doing something right? You'd have an easier time playing pickup sticks with your butt cheeks than removing that engine.

Kurt,
This seems to be the way to do it - although I may not be the best interpreter of Centuri instructions! You will need to use a launch rod or dowel to push the engine out from the top after flight. That's how I get mine out :eek: And just wait until you see how the engine toasts the inside of the stage coupler :rolleyes:
Drew

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Kurt,
This seems to be the way to do it - although I may not be the best interpreter of Centuri instructions! You will need to use a launch rod or dowel to push the engine out from the top after flight. That's how I get mine out :eek: And just wait until you see how the engine toasts the inside of the stage coupler :rolleyes:
Drew

Soulds like a job for grill paint or fuel proof dope.

[dtomko]

Soulds like a job for grill paint or fuel proof dope.

You need something - I also thought CA - but it also has to slip over the booster BT and it is already a tight fit.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

You need something - I also thought CA - but it also has to slip over the booster BT and it is already a tight fit.
Is the damage limited to residue, or is it actual charring?

[dtomko]

Is the damage limited to residue, or is it actual charring?

The coupler is charred, blistered, and swollen; it's pretty much a mess. I don't think it would last more than 2 or 3 flights unprotected.

[kurtschachner]

You need something - I also thought CA - but it also has to slip over the booster BT and it is already a tight fit.

Well, that tight fit part is another thing. I have some original Centuri ST-7 tubing here, plus a few original couplings. I also have some of both that I bought from Semroc.

I just emailed Carl about it but it turns out that Carl's tubing is ever so slightly larger in OD than the original stuff I have. In addition, his couplings are slightly smaller in ID - and since you slip the coupling over the tubing, that is a problem.

In fact I couldn't get the Semroc coupling to fit over the Semroc tubing at all. I ended up using my original tubing with the Semroc coupling, which was a nice smooth fit. If you used both the Semroc tubing and coupler I'm surprised you got them to work together at all.

[kurtschachner]

Be sure to do some warm-ups if you attempt this. And don't bother "chalking up". :eek:
Nice visual, Kurt. Ever have a Wiedemann? ;)

No Wiedemanns. Are you bringing some??

I can't take credit for the visual, it's one of my all-time favorite movie lines.

[dtomko]

Here are two shots of the coupler on my clone after two flights. I lightened the photos a tad so you can see the damage more clearly.
Drew

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

No Wiedemanns. Are you bringing some??

I can't take credit for the visual, it's one of my all-time favorite movie lines.

If I make it, it will be with a cooler of Wiedemann 40's. We'll hit White Castle first, just to authenticate it.
What movie is that from? To be honest, it sounds like something I might have uttered at some point in the last 25 years. I'm curious as to what movie I'm subconsciously a derivative of. :rolleyes: ;)

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Here are two shots of the coupler on my clone after two flights. I lightened the photos a tad so you can see the damage more clearly.
Drew


That is a mess. Considering the way it's set up, I vote for dope. I'm going dope hunting tomorrow for clear so I can try the tissue trick. Is all dope considered fuel and heat proof, or is that just something that I've managed to convince myself of in the years since I first used it. I swear it said that on the bottle. :confused:

[dtomko]

That is a mess. Considering the way it's set up, I vote for dope. I'm going dope hunting tomorrow for clear so I can try the tissue trick. Is all dope considered fuel and heat proof, or is that just something that I've managed to convince myself of in the years since I first used it. I swear it said that on the bottle. :confused:

"Hot Fuel Proof Dope" is what I recall it always saying . . . I think :confused:

[Nuke Rocketeer]

When I built my original Black Widow a couple of years ago I did not use dope on the coupler. I launched it several times (before the Cato that destroyed the sustainer) and really did not have much charring on the coupler. There was BP residue that mostly came off when I pushed the engine out and a wipe from a rag that got the rest. I built a new upper stage last year and have launched it a 4 times with no damage. I used original Centuri passport couplers.

Joe W

[dtomko]

When I built my original Black Widow a couple of years ago I did not use dope on the coupler. I launched it several times (before the Cato that destroyed the sustainer) and really did not have much charring on the coupler. There was BP residue that mostly came off when I pushed the engine out and a wipe from a rag that got the rest. I built a new upper stage last year and have launched it a 4 times with no damage. I used original Centuri passport couplers.

Joe W

That's good. I am interested to hear the experiences of others with this. With the arrangement the way it is, it seems that eventually, some damage at least is likely.

[Nuke Rocketeer]

That's good. I am interested to hear the experiences of others with this. With the arrangement the way it is, it seems that eventually, some damage at least is likely.

I agree on that. I like using the passport couplers for staging and have several boosters that I have used heavily over the years that I have had to replace the couplers. I am also looking into cloning the Black Widow, except this time I'll put the stage coupler on the booster. I am also going to build one that uses the Estes method of cellophane tape...eventually when I find that round tuit.

Joe W

[kurtschachner]

What movie is that from?

Heh, a classic. Planes, Trains and Automobiles:

http://www.gotwavs.com/cgi-bin/wavs.cgi?Planes_Trains_And_Automobiles=pta005.wav

Here's some more wavs:

http://www.gotwavs.com/Movies/Planes_Trains_And_Automobiles.shtml

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Heh, a classic. Planes, Trains and Automobiles:

http://www.gotwavs.com/cgi-bin/wavs.cgi?Planes_Trains_And_Automobiles=pta005.wav



That's pretty funny. McCrate and I made that the official unofficial movie of NARCON 2005. The hotel room scene caused us both some concerns.
"Where are your hands?" :eek:

[Green Dragon]

MPC had a three-stager, called the Microsonde III:

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/nostalgia/74avi06.html

The T-Bird wins the Coolest Looking Three Stager contest.

I have a T-bird clone 90% done , just needs sealing and paint.

Finally found a clear ST10 payload section for it (hope Carl is working on that ? ), so should be getting more done soon, although might be spring until painting weather in NY .

will see if I can get a pic of the bird 'so far' .

~ AL

[Ltvscout]

Finally found a clear ST10 payload section for it (hope Carl is working on that ? ), so should be getting more done soon, although might be spring until painting weather in NY .
I was told that Semroc will be offering clear ST-10 size payload tubing, and producing kits that used it.

[dtomko]

Here are two shots of the coupler on my clone after two flights. I lightened the photos a tad so you can see the damage more clearly.
Drew

You know, as one gets older, one finds it takes a bit longer to see the obvious :rolleyes:
No doubt a lot of the charring I got was because I had lopped off 1/2" of the booster's BT in my misguided attempt to make the fins fit over the engine clip ring- I still can't figure what I was thinking . . . Anyway, that 1/2" of booster tube with the coupler inside it would have protected the last 1/2" of the upper stage coupler from the hot gas of the booster as it is igniting the upper stage engine. D'oh!

I am gluing the cut off section back on, which won't be that easy, and then coating the insides with CA. I suspect that if you build this thing, um, correctly, you won't see nearly as much damage as I had. :(

Sheepishly,
Drew

[Doug Sams]

No doubt a lot of the charring I got was because I had lopped off 1/2" of the booster's BT in my misguided attempt to make the fins fit over the engine clip ring- I still can't figure what I was thinking . . . Anyway, that 1/2" of booster tube with the coupler inside it would have protected the last 1/2" of the upper stage coupler from the hot gas of the booster as it is igniting the upper stage engine. D'oh!

(snip) I suspect that if you build this thing, um, correctly, you won't see nearly as much damage as I had. :( Nope. Not so. If you're staging, you're getting blisters. Period.

Will gluing it back on make a diff? Maybe. But you might fly it five times with no ill effects, then get a zillion blisters on the sixth flight. As you know, rocketry is an in-exact science. There will be some difference in a particular motor, or in the flight, or perhaps in the coupling friction, that results in exposing the stage to the extra heat for longer than normal, and voila, blisters.

Basically, if you want it to remain unblemished, take a picture before you fly it 'cause it's gonna get some blisters when you do. Personally, I don't find them unattractive. They're battle scars in my mind and add character :)

Doug

[dtomko]

Doug,

I feel the same way about damage - gives rockets character! The blisters and scorching are OK, but on my Black Widow the whole coupler was distorted and began to unpeel. I think at last some of that can be avoided. You can always sand down the inside blisters and recoat with CA, but another flight like my first and I don't think there would have been much coupler left! I started the reglue and I will give a flight report as soon as I fly.

Drew

[dtomko]

I reattached the missing 1/2" :eek: on the booster and coated inside and out with CA. I still need to sand and recoat the coupler on the upper stage. I am getting it ready for a flight at NERRF in a couple weeks. We'll see if there is any less damage with the longer booster.

Anyone else finish/fly theirs yet?

Drew

[dtomko]

I had a beautiful flight this weekend at NERRF on a B6-0/ A8-5. There was noticeably less damage with the longer booster. Still scorching, but not the intense bubbling and peeling to the coupler. The booster didn't really glide, though; I think I took too much clay off when I added the extra BT piece. No photos, sadly, although I hope someone else got a shot.
Drew

[Green Dragon]

Drew,

Missed running into you at NERRF ( I;d asked on here if anyone was going ).

IIRC, we did briefly meet last year at Nerrf ? ( for me to deliver the motors ).

Not a bad launch, although the cloud ceiling was bad for many HPR flights.

Got to 'retire' my Rattler 7 the hard way, but it was cool, so what can you do .

New project on the list :-)

~ AL

[dtomko]

Al,
I missed your announcement here; I was focusing on the NERRF chatter over at TRF. I did see the demise of the Rattler, however. I forgot that that was your project.

No we didn't meet at NERRF last year; we went on different days I believe, and you wound up mailing the motors to me.

The first two days were pretty good, but on Sunday we had a lot of rain.

Drew

[Green Dragon]

Hmm,, I know we met up with someone off the old rockets list last year, oh well.. my bad ( hundreds of fellow rocket geeks, so hard to remember, lol ) .


Too bad we missed ya, would have liked to check out what you brought / flew.

Did nto note a Black Widow, I'd have made note, course we were busy most of the afternoon witht he rattler prep, not like prepping my Astron bandit with no wading,etc... :-)

Rattler crash was a bummer to the otherwise nice launch, evidence points to electronics failure, but not certain yet.
We'll be back with another large upscale for your enjoyment :cool:

~ AL