Die Cutting Machines

[Gus]

I just finished building an old Estes Blackhawk and was truly amazed at the number and quality of die-cut pieces.

I presume the machines worked like giant cookie cutters but I can't imagine how an engineer would go from a piece created by the designer to a die that would cut those pieces.

Anybody have any info on the die-cutting process?

[Carl@Semroc]

I just finished building an old Estes Blackhawk and was truly amazed at the number and quality of die-cut pieces.

I presume the machines worked like giant cookie cutters but I can't imagine how an engineer would go from a piece created by the designer to a die that would cut those pieces.

Anybody have any info on the die-cutting process?Gus,

Check YouTube. They have some good videos. Back in the day (before lasers!) we used an old 1890 or so Heidleberg letterpress. It was handfed one sheet at a time about every 4 or 5 seconds. We made our boxes, rings, perforated mailers, etc. on it. All the dies were made by my Dad using steel rule and plywood. Rounded steel rule creased the cardstock, sharpened steel rule made the cuts, and serrugated rule made perforations.

It was a nerve wracking job, because the press did not wait and you had to get the last sheet out and a new sheet in place in a very short time. When a die-cut part hung up, you had to let it go and try to catch it next cycle. It was even harder to get it loose the next cycle and the flywheel was so massive, it took a while to stop it completely.

Modern techniques look much better! But, the die cut parts are still only as good as the handmade die. And they are only as good as the operator, knowing when a die has problems or is becoming worn.


Old letterpress showing hand feed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNBb98N79nM)

Very similar to the one we used (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tshrU_RqoIo)

[Gus]

Carl,

Thanks for the info. I really liked the videos.

The part that really fascinates me is how the Steel Rule Dies were made. The craftsmanship involved is just incredible. On the Blackhawk there were 4 "pages" of die cut material. Three were the thick board and one was very thin for use in making the canopy and 8 of the fins. The sheet was completely full, with the fins nested like an Escher drawing. Although the 8 fins were all pressed in a single cut (they're all on the same card), they are all exactly the same.

I just can't imagine somebody carving those shapes into plywood and than hand-tamping in the blade material. Is that really how it was done? Today it's all either laser cut, or if dies are used they're made with CNC machines and auto steel rule benders.

Final question, did Estes and Centuri do this in house or did they subcontract it out to a die house? And Carl, you mentioned your Dad made dies. For Semroc?

[pantherjon]

Interesting videos..2nd one especially brought back some child hood memories..lol..My father started a small button making business and used to use a press very much like that to die cut the paper circles used to make buttons.We never had a motor hooked up to it..We used the big pulley and muscle power to operate it..

[UMRS]

Excellent videos, very interesting.

[Carl@Semroc]

I just can't imagine somebody carving those shapes into plywood and than hand-tamping in the blade material. Is that really how it was done? Today it's all either laser cut, or if dies are used they're made with CNC machines and auto steel rule benders.It was definately an art in the "old days!"Final question, did Estes and Centuri do this in house or did they subcontract it out to a die house? And Carl, you mentioned your Dad made dies. For Semroc?I am not sure how others did it. That was long before the internet. We did not know how it was done by others. My Dad saw the local newspaper being printed and bought an old surplus press to convert it to a die cutter. He saw how the lead slugs were held in and without knowing how dies were made by others, figured out independently how to make one. When I saw one years later, it was remarkable how well they had "copied" my Dad's design. :D

And yes, my Dad made the dies and about everything else. He made the engine machines, tube cutters, engine hook machine, nose cone machine, and about anything I could describe.

[Gus]

When I saw one years later, it was remarkable how well they had "copied" my Dad's design. :D

LOL, Carl, that's what I thought about Estes the first time I saw Estes products. I grew up in Phoenix and all my local hobby shop carried at first was Centuri. I remember being truly shocked that some guy in Colorado had so blatantly "ripped off" my hometown hero by copying their brilliant ideas.



And yes, my Dad made the dies and about everything else. He made the engine machines, tube cutters, engine hook machine, nose cone machine, and about anything I could describe.
Wow! Now THAT'S a great dad (but I'm pretty sure you already knew that). :)

But Carl, since this is the History section of YORF, let me carry on with my incessant questions.

How did your dad's engine machine differ from Vern's Mabel?

An Engine Hook Machine? I know what Sandman goes through to make his own out of old windshield wiper blades so I know how problematic that strength of steel can be. But your dad made a machine to do it?

What was the tube cutter like? Was it automatic at all or did each tube have to be cut by hand?

And finally, what kits did you use die cut parts for in the old days, and which kits have them now?

OK, I'll stop now. :o

[Carl@Semroc]

Wow! Now THAT'S a great dad (but I'm pretty sure you already knew that). :) I was lucky! He gave up two successful tractor dealerships (Case and Oliver) to do Semroc full-time. He really made sacrifices. He is now 81 and is fighting for his life, but I think he knows how great I think he still is!

But Carl, since this is the History section of YORF, let me carry on with my incessant questions.Thanks for asking!

How did your dad's engine machine differ from Vern's Mabel?Our final version was a single station instead of the multi-station that Mable and others used. We tried multi-station, but there was too much to keep aligned and too many points of failure. Using air instead of hydralics (like Mable) made every individual step much faster. The time per engine was slightly longer, but it was very easy to change from one type to another, since there were fewer pieces to change.

An Engine Hook Machine? I know what Sandman goes through to make his own out of old windshield wiper blades so I know how problematic that strength of steel can be. But your dad made a machine to do it?He built it in a few days from junk parts. It was manual, but it would bend three different angles and cut the completed hook in one press of a lever. You could make about 3000 an hour. I wish I had it now. Sheryl has sent me back home several times to try to find it.

What was the tube cutter like? Was it automatic at all or did each tube have to be cut by hand?It was a converted Craftsman lathe. I don't remember much about it, except it worked very well. We use delrin mandrels now, but since delrin was available back then, I am not sure what was used.

And finally, what kits did you use die cut parts for in the old days, and which kits have them now?We cut rings for the Vega and for parts stock. We cut boxes for all our kits in the later days. We don't use any die-cut parts now. Laser works much better. We do use delrin dies to emboss the Mars Lander and Saturn 1B, but with a much smaller machine we built. There would not be enough room for the old Heidleberg (or enough electricity!)

[rocketguy101]

hope! hope! Pics of these machines would be great! I often wondered how our rocket stuff was being produced...being a mech engr, I am even more fascinated.

[ScaleNut]

David,Gus,
Steel rule dies are manufactured for a widely diverse group of industries from automotive to packaging, electronics, and medical.

"steel rule die" or "rule die" into google will find several links to more info and photos

[al_packer]

Our balsa cutting dies for the Estes kits used razor blade stock (from Schick or Gilette I believe) fitted between blocks of wood that were CAREFULLY cut out by an old-time patternmaker.