Snow!

[F_O_G]

Can you launch a rocket in 9 inches of snow? or any snow at all for that matter?

[mojo1986]

Sure! I've done it many times. You don't even have to worry about parachute deployment, as long as there's no hard crust on the snow! Not that the cold will cause a problem with the parachute deployment, but a cold 'chute will get stiff and won't want to open readily, so be sure to use a bit of talc on it. One more bit of advice............keep your battery warm!

Joe

[sandman]

If it's really cold you may want to switch to streamers. The snow will help ease the touchdown, or maybe nylon chutes.

Roll a big snowball and flatten the top to set your launch pad on. It saves bending.

If the snow is deep a snowmobile helps. :D

[barone]

Can you launch a rocket in 9 inches of snow? or any snow at all for that matter?
Snow? What's that? :D

[Shreadvector]

We have snow all year round in my area of the USA:

http://www.coastergrotto.com/photo.jsp?pic=317c04.jpg

Snow? What's that? :D

[DaveR]

Launching in the snow would be cool, we haven't had a decent snow here in years.

[mojo1986]

'Launching in the snow would be cool, we haven't had a decent snow here in years.'

We have lots of it on the ground here right now! :(

[Rocket Doctor]

We have snow all year round in my area of the USA:

http://www.coastergrotto.com/photo.jsp?pic=317c04.jpg

Fred

How did you get a photo of my house???

I use a wood stove for heat, don't need ice, and love ice cream and snow cones.
I thought I saw you outside, I was going to invite you in , but, the phone rang, it was the air conditioning guy..........Oh well.

RD

[Green Dragon]

snow here now, too :(

although - I * AM * looking forward to the anual MARS club launch Jan 1st - always fun ( and COLD ! ) .

need to burn a few to keep going through the winter .

~ AL

[MSUrocketgurl]

Snow? What's that? :D

I think its that white stuff that people up North are always talking about :D

If it flurries down here the whole state shuts down.

[tbzep]

Global Warming? It was 22 degrees here in the South this morning and we still have a couple of weeks before winter starts! :eek:

[foose4string]

Usually only snows here a few times per year, but we had our first for this winter, yesterday.
I took the opportunity, and had my wife grab a shot of the Dr. Zooch Soyuz. A Russian Soyuz flight in the snow....how fittting!

Talc is a real good idea in the cold. I got lazy and didn't do it on the flight right before this one, and the chute never unfolded. Luckily, no damage. Dusted the chute the next time, and it was flawless.

[Green Dragon]

Usually only snows here a few times per year, but we had our first for this winter, yesterday.
I took the opportunity, and had my wife grab a shot of the Dr. Zooch Soyuz. A Russian Soyuz flight in the snow....how fittting!

Talc is a real good idea in the cold. I got lazy and didn't do it on the flight right before this one, and the chute never unfolded. Luckily, no damage. Dusted the chute the next time, and it was flawless.

hmm... that's not a real snow launch :D

where's the 6-9" on the ground ???

:D

~ AL

4-6" on the ground here as I look out the window.

[Nuke Rocketeer]

Can you launch a rocket in 9 inches of snow? or any snow at all for that matter?


All of my boys have done at least on science fair project that involved rockets. Given that these generally run in January/February, and my kids all have acquired my wife's procrastination gene, we would end up launching the rockets to get the data in early January.. :rolleyes:

Most of the time there was anywhere from 1"-24" of snow on the ground. Once, it was snowing lightly. The neighbors thought we were crazy. The engines were kept in the van with the heater running and prepped at the last minute before launching. No cold weather catos, but the dog did chew the nose cone on an Alpha once. He also liked chewing the spent engine casings..... :D

Joe W

[Nuke Rocketeer]

hmm... that's not a real snow launch :D

where's the 6-9" on the ground ???

:D

~ AL

4-6" on the ground here as I look out the window.

6" here, with 2-4" more coming tonight.......

[DaveR]

Global Warming? It was 22 degrees here in the South this morning and we still have a couple of weeks before winter starts! :eek:
I'm not really sure where the globe is warming but it's definately not in north MS, 24 degrees on the carport this morning.

[barone]

I'm not really sure where the globe is warming but it's definately not in north MS, 24 degrees on the carport this morning.
Yeah...cold and no snow.... :(

[Green Dragon]

Yeah...cold and no snow.... :(

not sure about you ,Don, but I'll take cold without snow over '32 and 2 feet of snow' any time.

24 and no snow would be a nice mild winter here :)

~ AL

[Shreadvector]

I'm not really sure where the globe is warming but it's definately not in north MS, 24 degrees on the carport this morning.

Yeah, but what's the forecast for "The Day After Tomorrow" ?:p

[ghrocketman]

It was 13 freakin' degrees here in mid-lower Michigan this morning. BRRRRRRRRR ! :mad: :mad: :eek:
If you ask me, I'm FOR Global Warming !!!!!!! :D

[Ltvscout]

It was 13 freakin' degrees here in mid-lower Michigan this morning. BRRRRRRRRR ! :mad: :mad: :eek:
If you ask me, I'm FOR Global Warming !!!!!!! :D
That's warm! We had a balmy 1 degree in Milwaukee this morning.

[kurtschachner]

That's warm! We had a balmy 1 degree in Milwaukee this morning.

Luxury! It was -3 at our house "away from the lake".

http://www.accesscom.com/~daveh/sean/monty/york.txt

[ghrocketman]

1 degree, 13 degrees....almost the same....bone chillin' cold ! :mad: :eek: :mad:

I sure hope once I'm the age of my in-laws and retired that I can do what they do....7 months in Florida of October through April and 5 months up here in Michigan when the weather is DECENT (i.e. OVER 60 degrees F) from May through September.

I have lived in Michigan all my life and thankfully since 2 years before my wife & I married I have NOT seen a white Christmas....they are spent down in the decent Florida winter weather. :D :p :D

Once we retire in maybe 15-18 years I will never ever again see another winter by choice.
If it means having to choose only one home we will sell our Main Home and up-north Lake Cottage here in Michigan and we will be Florida bound.

[tbzep]

Usually only snows here a few times per year, but we had our first for this winter, yesterday.
I took the opportunity, and had my wife grab a shot of the Dr. Zooch Soyuz. A Russian Soyuz flight in the snow....how fittting!

Talc is a real good idea in the cold. I got lazy and didn't do it on the flight right before this one, and the chute never unfolded. Luckily, no damage. Dusted the chute the next time, and it was flawless.

Foose,

Is that a D12 motor or is the Zooch Soyuz just a small rocket? That flame looks pretty big.

[foose4string]

Actually that's a B6-4... BT20 core tube. I guess it's just small like most of the Zooch kits, but I think it might be one of tallest in the Zooch line.

[barone]

You know, when I was your age, it was sooooo cold......... :D

[Nuke Rocketeer]

That's warm! We had a balmy 1 degree in Milwaukee this morning.

Try -2 yesterday morning on my front porch thermometer.

Joe W

[tbzep]

Actually that's a B6-4... BT20 core tube. I guess it's just small like most of the Zooch kits, but I think it might be one of tallest in the Zooch line.

I guess it was the camera exposure due to the overcast skies that gave it the extra large glow. Nice shot, btw.

[foose4string]

I guess it was the camera exposure due to the overcast skies that gave it the extra large glow. Nice shot, btw.

Could be. That's why I like seeing shots taken right at or just before dusk. The flame always looks so much cooler in low light situations.

[ScaleNut]

it's ben rainy and cold but forecast is for a high of 70 on sunday.. ! ?

[surdumil]

It got down to -30 degrees Celsius last night, and hit a high of -20 this afternoon. With wind chill factored in, that was -39 and -26.

On the (old) Fart scale (that's what the F stands for, isn't it? :D ) that's -21 for last night's low and -1 for today's high. With wind chill, that becomes -38 and -18.

That's kinda what the weather's been like over the last couple of weeks. It's a bit nasty, but you can still launch in it. The snow is fantastic for recovery spotting. Add some glow sticks and night launches are really fun! A good pair of snow shoes is essential for chasing rockets over rough country covered with deep, unpacked snow.

Snow doesn't affect flight much, but gets dicey on recovery if you have a wide diameter airframe and a parachute. After landing, if there's any appreciable wind, the 'chute will open up and drag your airframe through the snow. If the airframe is still warm from the ejection charge, snow scooped into the airframe will melt and soak the airframe innards. If you can get to the airframe quick enough, you can shake the snow out before there's much damage.

At lower temperatures with a bit of wind, your fingers tend to get numb pretty quickly, so you've got to be fast when getting your ignitor clips hooked up. Having an excellent pair of mitts (deerhide mitts are fantastic!) is critical.

Also, it's best if you can keep your battery in a running vehicle during launch so that you can keep the battery warm. Extending those igniter wires is definitely worthwhile to make this happen.

[ghrocketman]

Snowshoes and Rocketry are activities that should be mutually EXCLUSIVE in my book !

Actually, anytime the weather can justify snowshoes, I can justify keeping indoors !

[moonzero2]

Actually, anytime the weather can justify snowshoes, I can justify keeping indoors !

Yep! That's regular Rocket Building weather!

[Mark II]

snow here now, too :(

although - I * AM * looking forward to the anual MARS club launch Jan 1st - always fun ( and COLD ! ) .

need to burn a few to keep going through the winter .

~ AL
Yeah, we've also got plenty of snow here in the Adirondacks, and that's regarded as a good thing around here - all of the ski areas are open! :D

In the winter, snow or not, I usually just launch my (low power) Art Applewhite or Fliskits saucers, and an occasional micromaxx model on the rare occasion when there is no wind. No worries about recovery deployment with the former, and with the latter, as long as something deploys enough to cause them to tumble, they always come in safely. Neither type goes very high, either, which is another advantage. I bring snowshoes, just in case anything lands more than 20 ft. from the pad.

I usually launch the micros from my driveway, so that they land on packed snow - they can be hard to find in deep snow!

Mark K.

[Mark II]

It got down to -30 degrees Celsius last night, and hit a high of -20 this afternoon. With wind chill factored in, that was -39 and -26.

On the (old) Fart scale (that's what the F stands for, isn't it? :D ) that's -21 for last night's low and -1 for today's high. With wind chill, that becomes -38 and -18.

That's kinda what the weather's been like over the last couple of weeks. It's a bit nasty, but you can still launch in it. The snow is fantastic for recovery spotting. Add some glow sticks and night launches are really fun! A good pair of snow shoes is essential for chasing rockets over rough country covered with deep, unpacked snow.
I have to hand it to you guys out on the Canadian prairie - now that's dedication! (Or is it desperation?)

The coldest weather that I've ever launched in was -15 on the Poindexter scale ;) (5 deg. F here in the US of A, or, if you will, a balmy +258 Kelvin). On a number of occasions, I have thought of making launches in colder weather, but I've always found excuses to postpone them each time. :D

Snow doesn't affect flight much, but gets dicey on recovery if you have a wide diameter airframe and a parachute. After landing, if there's any appreciable wind, the 'chute will open up and drag your airframe through the snow. If the airframe is still warm from the ejection charge, snow scooped into the airframe will melt and soak the airframe innards. If you can get to the airframe quick enough, you can shake the snow out before there's much damage.
Actually, at this particular time of year, it isn't snow or cold that limits my launching - it's lack of daylight, or else dim, poor quality daylight (i.e., flat light). I'm sure that's even more of a problem further North. The mountainous terrain and dense forest all around us here shortens the day even further. And then, for the usual reasons, I have plenty of other things to do in December. Things start to improve after about mid-January.

At lower temperatures with a bit of wind, your fingers tend to get numb pretty quickly, so you've got to be fast when getting your ignitor clips hooked up. Having an excellent pair of mitts (deerhide mitts are fantastic!) is critical.
Been there (frozen fingers) - I feel your pain! :eek: Have you ever accidently pulled an igniter loose because the clip got stuck to your finger due to the cold? :mad:

Mark K.

[F_O_G]

I think its that white stuff that people up North are always talking about :D

If it flurries down here the whole state shuts down.

It was 13 freakin' degrees here in mid-lower Michigan this morning. BRRRRRRRRR !
If you ask me, I'm FOR Global Warming !!!!!!!

It got down to -30 degrees Celsius last night, and hit a high of -20 this afternoon. With wind chill factored in, that was -39 and -26.

On the (old) Fart scale (that's what the F stands for, isn't it? ) that's -21 for last night's low and -1 for today's high. With wind chill, that becomes -38 and -18.

You guys are such big chickens, Montanan winter is alot like Canadian winter I guess. In order for school to be closed there has to be a really bad Blizzard, even if icicles are hanging off our noses (and I am completely serious about that) other wise there would be no school for weeks if we closed school every time a snow flake hit the ground.

You know, when I was your age, it was sooooo cold.........

That's because the ice age is over.

[barone]

You guys are such big chickens, Montanan winter is alot like Canadian winter I guess. In order for school to be closed there has to be a really bad Blizzard, even if icicles are hanging off our noses (and I am completely serious about that) other wise there would be no school for weeks if we closed school every time a snow flake hit the ground.



That's because the ice age is over.
ROTFLMAO!

[F_O_G]

Yesterday our bus went into the ditch (with snow chains) because it snowed to much, and we still had to go to school.

[barone]

Yesterday our bus went into the ditch (with snow chains) because it snowed to much, and we still had to go to school.
It rained here and I still had to go to work.... :(

[Mark II]

It rained here and I still had to go to work.... :(
Yesterday the wind blew away everything around here that was not nailed down... and I still don't have a job. :eek:

Mark

[DaveR]

It rained here and I still had to go to work.... :(
Rained is an understatement.

[F_O_G]

Yesterday the wind blew away everything around here that was not nailed down... and I still don't have a job. :eek:

Mark

Almost sounds like your in eastern Montana, over there trains get blown over.

[Mark II]

Almost sounds like your in eastern Montana, over there trains get blown over.
No, not eastern MT; I'm in the northern (http://www.wildcenter.org/index.php) Adirondacks (http://visitadirondacks.com/gettinghere/maps.cfm) (northernmost part of New York state). It wasn't quite THAT extreme - I do still have my roof, after all. The only thing that was really blowing that bad around here was this year's Jets (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=3177523). [Sigh!] :rolleyes:

Trains getting blown over? Wow, now that's some impressive wind (http://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Wind-Album-Various-Artists/dp/B00008QS9V)! :eek:

Mark

ADDENDUM: Will there ever be any break in this wind (http://www.amazon.com/Break-Like-Wind-Spinal-Tap/dp/B00004WGVR)?!?

[F_O_G]

No, not eastern MT; I'm in the northern (http://www.wildcenter.org/index.php) Adirondacks (http://visitadirondacks.com/gettinghere/maps.cfm) (northernmost part of New York state). It wasn't quite THAT extreme - I do still have my roof, after all. The only thing that was really blowing that bad around here was this year's Jets (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=3177523). [Sigh!] :rolleyes:

Trains getting blown over? Wow, now that's some impressive wind (http://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Wind-Album-Various-Artists/dp/B00008QS9V)! :eek:

Mark

ADDENDUM: Will there ever be any break in this wind (http://www.amazon.com/Break-Like-Wind-Spinal-Tap/dp/B00004WGVR)?!?

I think you have to much time on your hands.

Here is a good example of Montana weather:

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/tfx/tx.php?wfo=tfx&type=html&loc=text&fx=topweather

http://www.montanamagazine.com/0206/stackofacts.html

And one year when a train was going through the pass (the one by glacier) a train carrying rice fell of the tracks (I forget how) and they had to pick up all the rice before the bears came and ate it.

[Mark II]

I think you have to much time on your hands.
Cabin fever will do funny things to the mind... :p

Here is a good example of Montana weather:

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/tfx/tx.php?wfo=tfx&type=html&loc=text&fx=topweather

http://www.montanamagazine.com/0206/stackofacts.html

And one year when a train was going through the pass (the one by glacier) a train carrying rice fell of the tracks (I forget how) and they had to pick up all the rice before the bears came and ate it.
Wait, you wouldn't happen to be related to anyone named "Donner," would you? :eek: :D

(BTW, the two links in your message go to pages that list Montana "extremes." The first link is to a list by NOAA of the top ten most extreme weather events in Montana in the 20th century, and the second list provides additional factoids about "Montana Weather Extremes" that were gleaned from NWS data. "Extreme" in both cases, as in "unusual" or "atypical" or, to put it another way, "nothing like the weather that we Montanans normally get around here." Thus, these certainly wouldn't constitute evidence of anything that could be called "good example(s) of Montana weather." :p

Not to say that the lists aren't interesting, in a nerdy-meteorological sort of way. Just the sorts of things you want to ponder during those long winter nights. :D)

Mark

(I'm having WAY too much fun with this thread... Thanks, F_O_G!)

[Initiator001]

Yeah, I know what you mean by cold.

Why, it only got up to 74 F in the shade. Too cold to do any rocket painting here in San Diego. :D

Bob

[Daniel Runyon]

even if icicles are hanging off our noses (and I am completely serious about that)

The spot of Montana that I lived in stayed consistantly around -20 for a couple of months, with dips down to -50. My snot froze instantly upon stepping out the door... it took me a while to realize that I didn't have boogers crusted around the bottom (that's what it felt like).

My wife's chin turned black one time (in the -50), and once I forgot to blowdry my beard and mustache, which partially came off when I wiped my face (to get the "boogercicles" off).

It was a dry cold though... :D sorta strange. I had a freezer suit that I wore every day (a dude from down here gave it to me... he worked at a meat packing place), and when I would shovel snow I would get so hot that I'd have to remove the top and shovel in a t-shirt in -20... no joke, and was NOT cold! Pretty weird.

[Mark II]

The spot of Montana that I lived in stayed consistantly around -20 for a couple of months, with dips down to -50. My snot froze instantly upon stepping out the door... it took me a while to realize that I didn't have boogers crusted around the bottom (that's what it felt like).

My wife's chin turned black one time (in the -50), and once I forgot to blowdry my beard and mustache, which partially came off when I wiped my face (to get the "boogercicles" off).

It was a dry cold though... :D sorta strange. I had a freezer suit that I wore every day (a dude from down here gave it to me... he worked at a meat packing place), and when I would shovel snow I would get so hot that I'd have to remove the top and shovel in a t-shirt in -20... no joke, and was NOT cold! Pretty weird.
Yeah, the Adirondacks used to be known for winters like that, too; I experienced a few of them after I moved here 24 years ago. But it's been awhile since we've had a real cold one; they may even be gone for good, now. It still gets pretty cold here at times, but not like it used to get. Milder winters are good for the deer herds, anyway; they spare a few more of the fawns.

I often shovel the snow off my driveway and my walk in a t-shirt without a coat. It's odd, but I still need to wear thick gloves because my hands get numb from the cold even though I'm sweating everywhere else.

"Freezer suit" - is that something like a snowmobile suit?

Mark

[Mark II]

... And one year when a train was going through the pass (the one by glacier) a train carrying rice fell of the tracks (I forget how) and they had to pick up all the rice before the bears came and ate it.
You have bears that are active in the winter? :confused:

Mark

[Mark II]

...
It was a dry cold though... :D sorta strange. ...
(Any YORF members living in the US along the northern border of the lower 48 or else in Alaska, any members who live in Canada and anyone in northern Europe will be able to relate to the following: ;) )

One peculiar thing that I started noticing right away after moving to the Adirondacks was that in the winter, it seemed to snow every day. Or every night, to be more precise. Sure, we saw snow every time a winter storm passed through, but I also began to notice that I was brushing snow of my steps and off my car just about every morning, even when the sky had been clear overnight and no precip had been predicted. In fact, when I would go out on clear nights to stargaze, I would sometimes find the air full of snow even though no wind was blowing and I could see a sky full of stars. In fact, this phenomenon seemed to occur especially when the skies were clear overnight. Where was this snow coming from?

If you read the preceding paragraph carefully and know something about winter weather, you will find the answer to this paradox right away. The key clue is clear winter nights. When you make your home up in the nation's freezer compartment, you quickly learn that the coldest nights in the wintertime are the ones which have no cloud cover. And you usually get clear nights when there is a really deep freeze (a cold spell) going on. OK, fine, you ask: why does this cause snow to come out of nowhere? During the daytime, even in the coldest weather, the air near the ground (well below the level of clouds, if there were any) picks up a little bit of water vapor. Sunlight causes a little to sublimate from the snow, some is introduced from car exhaust (and there are substantially more cars operating during the day than at night, even in rural areas), the exhaled breath of people (just like cars, there are many more of them operating during the day, too), etc. After the sun sets in the evening (or afternoon), the air temperature quickly drops (like a rock!). And so, overnight, all that water vapor hanging around in the air near the ground simply freezes, and falls back to the ground. It never coalesces into clouds first; it just freezes where it is in the air, and falls back down as ice crystals. That's why I have to sweep off my car every morning, even in fair weather, during the winter.

Really cold air cannot hold much water (it has a very low dewpoint), which is why in cold winter climates such as Montana and the northern Plains, the upper Midwest, the northern Adirondacks and northern New England in the continental US, and anywhere further north of those places or in higher altitudes, the winter cold often feels so dry.

(and yes, today's lesson will be on the test...)

Mark (I'm not a science teacher, but sometimes I act like one in order to impress the girls.)

[moonzero2]

(Any YORF members living in the US along the northern border of the lower 48 or else in Alaska, any members who live in Canada and anyone in northern Europe will be able to relate to the following: ;) )

One peculiar thing that I started noticing right away after moving to the Adirondacks was that in the winter, it seemed to snow every day. Or every night, to be more precise. Sure, we saw snow every time a winter storm passed through, but I also began to notice that I was brushing snow of my steps and off my car just about every morning, even when the sky had been clear overnight and no precip had been predicted. In fact, when I would go out on clear nights to stargaze, I would sometimes find the air full of snow even though no wind was blowing and I could see a sky full of stars. In fact, this phenomenon seemed to occur especially when the skies were clear overnight. Where was this snow coming from?

If you read the preceding paragraph carefully and know something about winter weather, you will find the answer to this paradox right away. The key clue is clear winter nights. When you make your home up in the nation's freezer compartment, you quickly learn that the coldest nights in the wintertime are the ones which have no cloud cover. And you usually get clear nights when there is a really deep freeze (a cold spell) going on. OK, fine, you ask: why does this cause snow to come out of nowhere? During the daytime, even in the coldest weather, the air near the ground (well below the level of clouds, if there were any) picks up a little bit of water vapor. Sunlight causes a little to sublimate from the snow, some is introduced from car exhaust (and there are substantially more cars operating during the day than at night, even in rural areas), the exhaled breath of people (just like cars, there are many more of them operating during the day, too), etc. After the sun sets in the evening (or afternoon), the air temperature quickly drops (like a rock!). And so, overnight, all that water vapor hanging around in the air near the ground simply freezes, and falls back to the ground. It never coalesces into clouds first; it just freezes where it is in the air, and falls back down as ice crystals. That's why I have to sweep off my car every morning, even in fair weather, during the winter.

Really cold air cannot hold much water (it has a very low dewpoint), which is why in cold winter climates such as Montana and the northern Plains, the upper Midwest, the northern Adirondacks and northern New England in the continental US, and anywhere further north of those places or in higher altitudes, the winter cold often feels so dry.

(and yes, today's lesson will be on the test...)

Mark (I'm not a science teacher, but sometimes I act like one in order to impress the girls.)

And in the Summer time, early in the morning, this moisture on the ground is called dew. But I'm not sure if you Northern Staes see this because you live in the nation's freezer compartment.

[Rocketflyer]

(Any YORF members living in the US along the northern border of the lower 48 or else in Alaska, any members who live in Canada and anyone in northern Europe will be able to relate to the following: ;) )

One peculiar thing that I started noticing right away after moving to the Adirondacks was that in the winter, it seemed to snow every day. Or every night, to be more precise. Sure, we saw snow every time a winter storm passed through, but I also began to notice that I was brushing snow of my steps and off my car just about every morning, even when the sky had been clear overnight and no precip had been predicted. In fact, when I would go out on clear nights to stargaze, I would sometimes find the air full of snow even though no wind was blowing and I could see a sky full of stars. In fact, this phenomenon seemed to occur especially when the skies were clear overnight. Where was this snow coming from?

If you read the preceding paragraph carefully and know something about winter weather, you will find the answer to this paradox right away. The key clue is clear winter nights. When you make your home up in the nation's freezer compartment, you quickly learn that the coldest nights in the wintertime are the ones which have no cloud cover. And you usually get clear nights when there is a really deep freeze (a cold spell) going on. OK, fine, you ask: why does this cause snow to come out of nowhere? During the daytime, even in the coldest weather, the air near the ground (well below the level of clouds, if there were any) picks up a little bit of water vapor. Sunlight causes a little to sublimate from the snow, some is introduced from car exhaust (and there are substantially more cars operating during the day than at night, even in rural areas), the exhaled breath of people (just like cars, there are many more of them operating during the day, too), etc. After the sun sets in the evening (or afternoon), the air temperature quickly drops (like a rock!). And so, overnight, all that water vapor hanging around in the air near the ground simply freezes, and falls back to the ground. It never coalesces into clouds first; it just freezes where it is in the air, and falls back down as ice crystals. That's why I have to sweep off my car every morning, even in fair weather, during the winter.

Really cold air cannot hold much water (it has a very low dewpoint), which is why in cold winter climates such as Montana and the northern Plains, the upper Midwest, the northern Adirondacks and northern New England in the continental US, and anywhere further north of those places or in higher altitudes, the winter cold often feels so dry.

(and yes, today's lesson will be on the test...)

Mark (I'm not a science teacher, but sometimes I act like one in order to impress the girls.)


Hahaha, my lab coat has a Secret Squadron patch on it, and a pocket protector with 27 pencils in it. :p :D

[F_O_G]

You have bears that are active in the winter? :confused:

Mark

They had to hurry to get the rice picked up before they woke up in the spring.

On average, at least one train gets blown over per year.

[Daniel Runyon]

We've gone a little over a decade with no significant snow here (in GA) and after this thread here we are with a white yard! I'm really grateful too, as my son is 6 years old and has never seen a good snow... it snowed very lightly when he was 2 or 3, but didn't stick at all, either on the ground or in his memory. I'm hoping they'll call school off in the morning so we can work on this Zooch shuttle some more and play a little chess!

[Mark II]

And in the Summer time, early in the morning, this moisture on the ground is called dew. But I'm not sure if you Northern Staes see this because you live in the nation's freezer compartment.
Sorry. The little Prof. Frink that lives inside my head somehow got out last night when I wasn't looking, and went straight to the keyboard, like he always does. I keep him around because he can be useful on occasion, but normally I never let him near my email, because he just wreaks havoc with it.

Oh, oh...

Zoids! Here he comes again!

JF: "Sarcasm, moonzero2! I like it! The perfect social lubricant - really gets the party going! GLAVIN!!!"

(Aww, jeez...!)

JF: "But you are incorrect. Indeed we see dew up north on any cool morning when there is enough water vapor in the air. In the wintertime, that usually means on mornings after a sunny, mild day (temp. > ~20 F). In those conditions, we see it as frost."

JF: "Frost is different from the snow I talked about yesterday. Frost is water vapor that has remained in its liquid state (in very fine droplets) until ater it touches the ground, or some other cold object, whereupon it freezes. In wintertime, this will occur the morning after a mild winter day (temp ~ 20 deg. F or above), but is unlikely to happen when the ambient daytime temp remains at or below ~10 deg. F for the entire day."

JF: "In the situation I described yesterday, the ambient air temp drops very fast. The water vapor then freezes before falling to the ground. What makes this thing different from your run-of-the-mill snow shower is that it involves water vapor that is at sparse levels (very low humidity) in still air near the ground (below 1000 ft.). In normal snow, water droplets grow big as they get tossed around in a turbulent pocket of supersaturated air high above the ground (i. e., in a cloud). The droplets become snow as they fall through cold air and freeze on their way to the ground. In the "clear air snow" phenomenon, on the other hand, much smaller water droplets just freeze while still being suspended in the air, because the air in which they are suspended simply turns frigid. MELVIN!!!"

Like I said before, it was a strange thing at first to see snow suddenly develop and fall out of apparently clear air right up above me. Kind of magical, in a way.

Mark

[surdumil]

Sunny days when ice crystals are suspended in the air are especially pretty. The air sparkles and the sun dogs make it look like we have three suns up there instead of just one. That's when cold is real cool, daddy-o :D

When it's dark and cold and the car won't start and the extension cord won't bend properly any more, and the cold wind is freezing your face off as you're walking around to get to a bus to get to work, that's when cold really bites!... beats having swarms of skeeters around by a long shot, though :D

By the way, have you noticed the planet alignment in the morning skies these days? That's got to be Mercury close to the horizon, but what's the other one near by?

Umm... rockets! Right! Love em!

[F_O_G]

This morning the radio said if you stood outside for about 30 min. or more you could get frostbite.

[Mark II]

This morning the radio said if you stood outside for about 30 min. or more you could get frostbite.
So if you are going to go outside and just stand around for awhile, make sure that it is for no longer than 29 minutes! ;)

Mark

[Mark II]

Hey F_O_G, how long would you have to stand around inside in Montana before you got frostbite? :confused:

Mark

P.S. All kidding aside, that's some pretty darned cold weather! Make sure that you dress well if you go out! I wouldn't want to see anything bad happen to you.

[F_O_G]

I almost got frost bite yesterday waiting at the bus stop for 5 minutes, and I had three layers on and a scarf around my face. At lunch time it was about 4 degrees. But I guess all the snow and coldness is good for something, it means less of a fire season in the summer. Now its about 14 degrees so its getting warmer.

[barone]

I've been told that when it's that cold you can't catch a cold because the cold virus is frozen.... :rolleyes:

[F_O_G]

I don't know, but I do know that you don't catch a cold (virus) from being too cold, the reason people catch the colds (virus) and other viruses is because everyone's inside and close together and that makes colds (virus) easier to spread. A few really bad viruses are going around right now so the cold isn't keeping all the viruses frozen.

[Nuke Rocketeer]

I don't know, but I do know that you don't catch a cold (virus) from being too cold, the reason people catch the colds (virus) and other viruses is because everyone's inside and close together and that makes colds (virus) easier to spread. A few really bad viruses are going around right now so the cold isn't keeping all the viruses frozen.

Which is why those of us with kiddos in school get to sample every new cold virus in circulation..... :D

Joe W

[barone]

Aaahhhhh....after three weeks, I've finally got something from the doctor that kicks this cold in the butt......My sinuses are finally clear and and a good night sleep has been had! :D

[surdumil]

When you've walking around in cold weather, your nose is runny. When your nose is running, you tend to wipe it, typically with your gloved or mittened hand. You've just become a likely vector.

I like to vector in a cubicle. I get to buzz around like a skeeter and stuff. Who doesn't :)

[F_O_G]

When you've walking around in cold weather, your nose is runny. When your nose is running, you tend to wipe it, typically with your gloved or mittened hand. You've just become a likely vector.

I like to vector in a cubicle. I get to buzz around like a skeeter and stuff. Who doesn't

you guys work in little boxes? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Mark II]

you guys work in little boxes? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Nope - cloistered at home. The only disease that I'll get is cabin fever. :rolleyes:

Mark

[F_O_G]

I heard in Libby they had 70 inches of snow, so the band festival taking place today had to be cancelled.

Oh yeah, there was also an avalanch up in the pass.

[surdumil]

It's -35 C (-31 F) right now. No launches scheduled, but I think the SAROS bi-weekly coffee get-together is still on.

[Mark II]

I heard in Libby they had 70 inches of snow, so the band festival taking place today had to be cancelled.

Oh yeah, there was also an avalanch up in the pass.
Thanks for news flash, Debbie Downer. :D

Mark

[Mark II]

It's -35 C (-31 F) right now. No launches scheduled, but I think the SAROS bi-weekly coffee get-together is still on.
That's the spirit! (As long as you can all get your cars to start, that is. :eek: ;))

Mark

[F_O_G]

Thanks for news flash, Debbie Downer. :D

Mark
Who's that?

[Rocket Doctor]

The NOrth East is going to get slammed with a snow and ice storm later this afternoon, into Wednesday.

It's bitterly cold right now, and, last week it was in the 60's briefly..........
Brrrrrrrrrrr

[Mark II]

Who's that?
Nevermind, it's not important.

(Debbie Downer is a character that Rachel Dratch has played on Saturday Night Live during the past couple of seasons.)

Mark

[foose4string]

The NOrth East is going to get slammed with a snow and ice storm later this afternoon, into Wednesday.

It's bitterly cold right now, and, last week it was in the 60's briefly..........
Brrrrrrrrrrr

Just started here in Cecil Co. , MD, coming down pretty steady ATM.

[Rocket Doctor]

Just started here in Cecil Co. , MD, coming down pretty steady ATM.

It's been stowing for about five hours now, the temp is supoose to rise and then change over to rain.

We can only hope, right now, there is about 4 inches on the ground, and, it's still coming down.

[ghrocketman]

We got enough snow in SE Michigan yesterday that it turned my "normal" one hour, 57 mile each-way, commute time to home into THREE HOURS AND 20 MINUTES ! :eek:
The commute slowdown was NOT however the result of the snow, it was due to STUPID MORON drivers that do not know how to drive in snow that insisted on using the brake FAR more than necessary ! :mad:
Needless to say, I was NOT a happy motorist last night and was about ready to chew through barbed wire by the time I got home ! :mad:

[Nuke Rocketeer]

We got enough snow in SE Michigan yesterday that it turned my "normal" one hour, 57 mile each-way, commute time to home into THREE HOURS AND 20 MINUTES ! :eek:
The commute slowdown was NOT however the result of the snow, it was due to STUPID MORON drivers that do not know how to drive in snow that insisted on using the brake FAR more than necessary ! :mad:
Needless to say, I was NOT a happy motorist last night and was about ready to chew through barbed wire by the time I got home ! :mad:

What I hate almost as much are the speeding morons in 4WD vehicles who think they are invulnerable to skidding. These idiots cause a lot of delays by causing everyone to hit their brakes to avoid getting hit as they weave in and out of traffic. What's most annoying is the fact that when (or if) they reach their exit, they just might be 3 or 4 cars ahead of you.

[ghrocketman]

Agreed !
I hate the idiots in their "invincible" 4WD vehicles almost as much as the granny-footin' 15mph drivers in the snow.
BOTH are an irritating MENACE !

[Rocket Doctor]

The East coast got hit with between 3 to 6 inches of snow, then, it warmed up and has been raining ever since.

For anyone who doesn't shovel this wattery mess, when the temps drop, it's going to be like cement, and you can't do anything with it until the temps warm up again.

Just one big mess, and if you use a snow blower, even a big one, the discharge chute will clog up .

[Mark II]

The East coast got hit with between 3 to 6 inches of snow, then, it warmed up and has been raining ever since.

For anyone who doesn't shovel this wattery mess, when the temps drop, it's going to be like cement, and you can't do anything with it until the temps warm up again.
All snow (no rain) up here, about 12-18 inches. Warmer (more moist, less powdery) than the 24 inches we got a few days ago. It's a sign that Spring is on its way!! :) (Only 2 more months!!!) :D

Just one big mess, and if you use a snow blower, even a big one, the discharge chute will clog up .
I shovel the white stuff, so I guess I'm lucky? :eek: :rolleyes:

Mark