Body Tube Coupler

[genimijim]

First Post, Hello To All

I'm looking for information on a body tube coupler, I need a coupler for an Estes HBT-1090.

Can anyone tell me what I can use for a coupler that will fit this body tube?

Thanks

genimijim

[Green Dragon]

HI and welcome to our little space on the web :)

As for the HBT-100 ( 1" ID) tube from Estes.....

Not sure if there was a paper type coupler produced / used on thse - others might speak up with info.
they DID use a plastic coupler / bulkhead on some kits - I have a few of those laying around, if you need one send me a note.

curious as to the use for the coupler - are you doiong a repair , scratchbuilding ?
( if you';re scratchbuilding, wonder if you had any spare tubing or can tell me where to source some, as this is not discontinued )

Again, welcome aboard - be careful, it;s VERY catching in here :D

~ AL

[tbzep]

If you can't find a coupler, you can make one from scrap tubing.

1. Find some scrap 1090 tubing or some that is slightly larger than the 1090.
2. Cut whatever length you want for the coupler.
3. Take the short piece you just cut and slit it down the length.
4. Slip it inside the tube you are going to join and see how much it has to lap over.
5. Pull it back out and cut that much of the tube off parallel to the first lengthwise cut.
6. Slip it back inside the 1090 tube and use the material you just cut off to glue the new coupler together, making sure you don't get glue in the 1090 tube.
7. Once it's dry, slip it out and reinforce from the inside as needed and you now have a custom made tube coupler.

[Rocket Doctor]

First Post, Hello To All

I'm looking for information on a body tube coupler, I need a coupler for an Estes HBT-1090.

Can anyone tell me what I can use for a coupler that will fit this body tube?

Thanks

genimijim

Send to me the exact dimensions of the tube ID/ OD, I might have a coupler for you.

You could call Estes customer service dept after Jan 2,2008 and ask Christine 1-800-525-7561 X 216

[genimijim]

Thanks to all the replies

I'm building a Delta Clipper that I've had laying around for many, many years, one of the couplers is missing.

I'm sure I'll have many questions to ask as I'm building several Estes Saturn V #1236 (K-36) & #2001. I'm thinking of doing some engine modifications, dual 24mm and others.

Thanks again

genimijim

[barone]

Thanks to all the replies

I'm building a Delta Clipper that I've had laying around for many, many years, one of the couplers is missing.

I'm sure I'll have many questions to ask as I'm building several Estes Saturn V #1236 (K-36) & #2001. I'm thinking of doing some engine modifications, dual 24mm and others.

Thanks again

genimijim
You're going to have fun. ;) Ask away....(or maybe that's us that's going to have fun :rolleyes: )

[Mark II]

Send to me the exact dimensions of the tube ID/ OD, I might have a coupler for you.

You could call Estes customer service dept after Jan 2,2008 and ask Christine 1-800-525-7561 X 216
HBT-1090 has an OD of 1.090" and an ID of 1.040". A length of Semroc ST-10 (OD=1.040") should work just fine as a tube coupler, but you may have to sand the outside of it a little bit to help it slide into the larger tube.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OldRockets/message/34956

http://www.semroc.com/Store/Products/BodyTubes.asp

Mark

[Rocket Doctor]

HBT-1090 has an OD of 1.090" and an ID of 1.040". A length of Semroc ST-10 (OD=1.040") should work just fine as a tube coupler, but you may have to sand the outside of it a little bit to help it slide into the larger tube.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OldRockets/message/34956

http://www.semroc.com/Store/Products/BodyTubes.asp

Mark

The Rocket Doctor has sent the required tube coupler and the kit is being built now.
Thanks for everyone's input.

[Mark II]

The Rocket Doctor has sent the required tube coupler and the kit is being built now.
Thanks for everyone's input.
So my suggestion won't work - is that what you are saying? :confused:

Mark

[Rocket Doctor]

So my suggestion won't work - is that what you are saying? :confused:

Mark

fNo Mark, your suggestion was correct, you can modify any body tude or tube coupler to fit your needs, my point was, I had some original tube coupler for that specific kit and sent them out, and the kit is being built.
I thank you for your input, the size of the coupler was an odd size, and I had to do some measuring to make sure that the coupler was the correct one.
Some of the dimension of the BT-55 and BT-56 are very close, only off by a fraction of an inch, but, they are not compatable.
The BT-56 is left over from the centuri days and the BT-55 are from Estes.
Thank you once again for your suggestion, it was appreciated.

[Doug Sams]

So my suggestion won't work - is that what you are saying? :confused: As long as the smaller tube fits reasonably well in the larger, yes, it should work fine. My experience is that you need one or two hundreths difference - ie, a bit more than a couple thousandths - to avoid a tight fit.

As for wall thickness, while couplers are usually significantly thicker than body tubes, in many cases, the thinner walled component will work fine. Or, the user can always laminate the inside of the improvised coupler to thicken it up.

My biggest lament on this topic is the dearth of couplers for Quest tubes. Not that I need a lot, but a couple of each (30mm, 35mm and 40mm) would be handy :)

Doug

[Doug Sams]

If you can't find a coupler, you can make one from scrap tubing.

(snip description how to) Ya know, at the risk of sounding whiny, this is one technique I've always shied away from, mainly because, IIRC, the end result was a miserable failure :) I seem to recall it coming out more like a truncated cone than a cylinder.

I'm normally pretty handy at fashioning things like this, but fabricating couplers, along with hanging wallpaper, are two things I avoid whenever possible :)

Historically, I've been able to hide things as I go. That is, who cares what the seam repair looks like once it's been covered in filler and paint? In the case of not being adept at fabricating couplers, it may have to do with the fact that I can't hide my ham-fistedness with FNF :)


Doug



.

[Doug Sams]

Some of the dimension of the BT-55 and BT-56 are very close, only off by a fraction of an inch, but, they are not compatable. I have used NC55 and CPL55 components with BT-56. In my case, it was unknowingly. I had acquired some FSI pieces (or a kit missing a few bits, can't recall for sure) and naively assumed it was BT55, albeit rather poorly fitting BT55 :)

I ended up having to build up a coupler using several layers of tissue and dope, taking care to make sure it went on uniformly so as to not inadvertently make it fat at one end. I seem to recall doing the same for a nosecone, too.

So while I agree these are not compatible, in some cases, they can me made to work without great difficulty.

Doug

[gpoehlein]

Ya know, at the risk of sounding whiny, this is one technique I've always shied away from, mainly because, IIRC, the end result was a miserable failure :) I seem to recall it coming out more like a truncated cone than a cylinder.

I'm normally pretty handy at fashioning things like this, but fabricating couplers, along with hanging wallpaper, are two things I avoid whenever possible :)

Historically, I've been able to hide things as I go. That is, who cares what the seam repair looks like once it's been covered in filler and paint? In the case of not being adept at fabricating couplers, it may have to do with the fact that I can't hide my ham-fistedness with FNF :)

Doug


In the future, try it this way. Using a guide (angle iron, door frame, Estes Fin Guide), draw a line down the tubing you will use as a coupler. Slip a dowel inside to allow you to cut along the line easily. Slip the cut tube almost all the way inside the final tube and mark it as in the previous post. Take it out and measure as accurately as possible how much needs to be removed. (I use digital calipers, but even a piece of paper will work - just mark the width of the bit to be removed on the paper.) Mark the soon-to-be coupler at the other end and connect the line. Cut using the dowel again as a mandrel. If you snug the two cut lines together, it will be perfectly straight.

Greg

[tbzep]

Ya know, at the risk of sounding whiny, this is one technique I've always shied away from, mainly because, IIRC, the end result was a miserable failure :) I seem to recall it coming out more like a truncated cone than a cylinder.



I use the body tube to make sure the fabricated coupler stays straight. It's better to use some scrap so you don't have to worry about getting glue on your good body tube, but the good tube will work.

The secret to keeping it from becoming a truncated cone is to trim the slit out until you can insert it and have a tiny or no gap at all while spread in the body tube. This is when it's better to use a piece of scrap BT cause if there's a little bit of gap you can take a little tape and secure the new coupler at each end to make sure it doesn't move on you when you glue the tab in. If there is a bit of gap, pull the coupler out and spread it a little so it will want to open up when inside the piece of BT.

Once it's in there and ready , put glue on the tab sparingly so it won't get down into the gap and bind with the body tube. After the glue dries, pull out the new coupler and it's ready to use. You can reinforce the glue joint from the inside if it is going to be used as a bulkhead for a payload section, but if it's used to glue both body tubes together, there's no need to reinforce at all.

[Green Dragon]

My biggest lament on this topic is the dearth of couplers for Quest tubes. Not that I need a lot, but a couple of each (30mm, 35mm and 40mm) would be handy :)

Doug

Doug,

I agree, although what I lament is the lack of TUBING from Quest.

30mm is near identical ID to LOC,etc 29mm motor tubing - LOC, BMS or Semroc couplers should be fine.
not sure about 40mm, but if you need a few of the 35mm ( 1.37") I think I have a few extra, drop me a note. ( wish I could find some 1.37" tubing, since I have a couple extra cones.

~ AL

[Doug Sams]

(snip great replies by Tim and Greg)

You guys have about talked me into trying this again next time I need one. I think the key is the sacrificial length of tube to use as the mold/jig. Having access to both ends will make it much easier than trying to work from just one end of a much longer tube.

Doug

[Doug Sams]

I agree, although what I lament is the lack of TUBING from Quest. That, too. We had a workaround for that for a while when Quest kits were at Hobby Lobby. We would pick up discounted and/or on-sale kits and use them as parts packs. I built three upscale..er...hurumph..Midgets that way along with an upscale quasi-Apogee II (from a Big Betty). Now that Quest and Hobby Lobby have parted ways...well...it's not so atttractive to pay full price to use kits as parts packs.


30mm is near identical ID to LOC,etc 29mm motor tubing - LOC, BMS or Semroc couplers should be fine. Yes, this works well. In fact, I have used a spent 29mm motor case when I repaired my T-30 Midget. http://home.flash.net/~samily/midgetT30/midget-T30-rpr.html


not sure about 40mmI got a piece from Buzz McDermott, IIRC. Not sure where he got it, but he's got a bit of everything in his stash :)

That said, I think 38mm coupler can be used here. I can't remmeber where, but I wanna say I used it on something I built. A few wraps of tissue and dope were required to get it snug.


, but if you need a few of the 35mm ( 1.37") I think I have a few extra, drop me a note. Thanks a bunch, Al. That's very kind. But for now, I would only put them in my stash. However, if I come up with a need, I'll take you up on it :)

Doug


.

[Mark II]

As long as the smaller tube fits reasonably well in the larger, yes, it should work fine. My experience is that you need one or two hundreths difference - ie, a bit more than a couple thousandths - to avoid a tight fit.
Yes, that's why I suggested that to use the ST-10, you would probably have to sand it down a little. Or, I should have added, you might need to peel off the topmost layer.

As for wall thickness, while couplers are usually significantly thicker than body tubes, in many cases, the thinner walled component will work fine. Or, the user can always laminate the inside of the improvised coupler to thicken it up.
In response to Rocket Doctor, I should humbly acknowledge that I learned long ago that couplers were not just smaller diameter body tubes that were made to fit inside their corresponding tube sizes. They are quite different animals, being made much denser, harder and often thicker than the usual kraft paper body tubes, due to their function as bridges for holding together two tubes from the inside. I found out the truth of this when, for some strange reason that I can no longer recall, I wanted to trim one - it was really hard to cut! That was when I also realized that the coupler was made from a quite different material. RD did the other poster a nice favor by sending him a real tube coupler for his HBT-1090; using an actual tube coupler will always be superior to fabricating a coupler from regular body tube stock, no matter how well you can make it fit. His was certainly the optimum solution.

My biggest lament on this topic is the dearth of couplers for Quest tubes. Not that I need a lot, but a couple of each (30mm, 35mm and 40mm) would be handy :)

Doug
Not only a dearth of couplers, but the lack of a source for Quest body tube stock, too!

ADDENDUM: Oops, Al already mentioned that!

Mark K.

[tbzep]

using an actual tube coupler will always be superior to fabricating a coupler from regular body tube stock, no matter how well you can make it fit. His was certainly the optimum solution.


I respectfully disagree. As a stand alone piece of tube, coupler material is stronger, but in function, it is not really superior.

Wood glue bonds are stronger than the paper they hold together. A tube coupler properly fitted and glued will be just as strong at that joint, if not stronger, than the rest of the body tube even without extra reinforcement.

Additionally, once you make the coupler, you can reinforce it any way you like. You can go as far as using fiberglass and epoxy to reinforce, or as small as soaking it with CA or smearing a good layer of wood glue on the inside. You can even cut a second piece of tube and cut a bigger slit out of it to make a double walled coupler that will be stronger than anything Estes puts in its kits and probably as strong or stronger than the fish paper that Semroc uses, especially since it is strengthened by the layer of glue sandwiched between the two pieces.

[foose4string]

I regularly make my couplers and bulkheads with cardstock, and usually only two layers. As TB pointed out, the glue stiffens them very well. They really don't have to be too heavy. It only takes a few minutes to fabricate one and I don't have to find storage for a bunch of difference sizes of couplers...I just make them when needed. Cutting a section of BT is a great idea, but I like saving tubes for their intended purpose... I don't have a ton of them on hand (I only keep a few of each). If I did, you bet I'd be using that method.

[Ltvscout]

I got a piece from Buzz McDermott, IIRC. Not sure where he got it, but he's got a bit of everything in his stash :)
Yup, Buzz McD has a bit of everything it seems. I sure wish he'd join in here with our discussions. (HINT!) I know he's around because I see him logged here in from time to time.

I'm hoping he starts scanning up some of his goodies again for us for me to post.

[Doug Sams]

Yup, Buzz McD has a bit of everything it seems. I sure wish he'd join in here with our discussions. (HINT!) I know he's around because I see him logged here in from time to time.I miss him. He was well liked at DARS, and very interesting to talk to. So it'd be great to have him here.

Doug

[Chas Russell]

"I miss him."

I miss the decals that he has not returned, even after several requests by e-mail and in person.

I appreciate what all of the volunteers do, but one shouldn't have to make more than one reminder.

Chas

[Chas Russell]

I apologize if the earlier post seemed harsh, but I had contacted Buzz about the decal. We all have to share what we can, but you would like the borrower(s) to be responsive.

Chas

[genimijim]

Thanks to all who have replied, all information was very helpful.

A big "THANK YOU" to Rocket Doctor for the parts with which I was able to complete the Delta Clipper.

I'm trying to figure out how to decrease the file (file is too big to attach) so that I can send a photo of the rocket.

Again thanks to all.........

Jim

[Ltvscout]

I'm trying to figure out how to decrease the file (file is too big to attach) so that I can send a photo of the rocket.
Jim,

Send the pic to me in email at scotth at execpc dot com and I'll tweak it for you.

[genimijim]

Here is a pic of the Delta Clipper ready for sanding sealer then the paint shop.

Thanks to Scott for reducing the file so I can post the pic.

Jim

[tbzep]

Here is a pic of the Delta Clipper ready for sanding sealer then the paint shop.

Thanks to Scott for reducing the file so I can post the pic.

Jim

I see you've decided to go with a common paint scheme for all your new rockets. :D

[genimijim]

Yeah I figured with this paint scheme, people would know that they were built by me.

Waiting for warmer weather to apply sanding sealer, that way I can open the windows and use a fan, then to the paint shop.

Does anyone know the colors of the Scrambler?

It's been too many years ago when I built my first one to remember the colors.

Jim

[Green Dragon]

wow - starting to look like my place - dozens of birds awaiting warm weather / paint :)

nice assortment though , let's see what I can identify...

not sure the far left bird, Custom rockets, maybe ? ( looks liek thier cone, but don;t know the bird )

Delta Clipper, of course ( need to pepair my own, booster was destryed by a D12 cato way back . I cut a replacement tube from a crunched Airwalker kit, and still have the stickers, since I;d painted it non-stock, so ... one more to the 'do list'

Little Joe looks nice ( ? estes or who's ? )

Gemini DC ?

don't recall the name of the one with the satellite without cheating, exploer something ? ( mid 90's Estes ) .r

small ones behind the Delta Clipper hard to see.

front looks like a Solar Warrior

Custom Rockets space kit behind that , again forget the name ( getting old, lol )

Gemini

Defender ( Scott, see this one ? :D )

I see one of my personal faves - the Scrambler 2, had one in the day, have clone half painted now ( decals will be tough, unless you have an ALPS :(

Original Scrambler, too.. nice to see ( and the colors were white with black/ orange fin , check Ninfinger for pics - I'd painted my original , that I still have, white with black and blue fin - from the B&w kit panel, looks good - since it's retired, my clone will likely be orange / black, but who knows.

another I've been wanting to do here.. wow, the Airborne Surveillance Missile
I have my vintage one ( repainted/ restoreed many years back, before the whole 'net/ YORF / Jim Z thing.. so I cute the white stripes from monokote and used 'close as can find' rub-on lettering, looks good, but not perfect.. so I have parts collected for a clone, but one of the few nobody offers decals for, bummer. ( Is yours original kit or cloned ? )

rest hard to see, what's the bird in fromt of the Airborne Surveillance Missile ?

Can;t wait to see these painted, and you know you now MUST post finally done pics :)

~ AL

[tbzep]

Yeah I figured with this paint scheme, people would know that they were built by me.

Waiting for warmer weather to apply sanding sealer, that way I can open the windows and use a fan, then to the paint shop.

Does anyone know the colors of the Scrambler?

It's been too many years ago when I built my first one to remember the colors.

Jim

Bookmark Sven Ninfinger's site. It's great for us old folks. Ninfinger (http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/rockets.html)

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/estes711/711est26.jpg

[genimijim]

The Little Joe is one that I cloned, put together and it flys.
There is a (Estes) Hawkeye, Mini Cobra, Exocrt, I.Q.S.Y. Tomahawk, Solar Warrior, Airborne Surveillance Missle, Gemini, Scrambler, Scrambler 2, DC Gemini, Space Shuttle, Satellite SDI (?).
Serion 3, Centuri Sea Killer, Sam-X, Stealth Interceptor, MPC, Semroc Spev & Defender.
Body Tube for Saturn K-36, Titan III E & Saturn 1B in the closet needing to be finished.

genimijim

[Mark II]

wow - starting to look like my place - dozens of birds awaiting warm weather / paint :)

nice assortment though , let's see what I can identify...

not sure the far left bird, Custom rockets, maybe ? ( looks liek thier cone, but don;t know the bird )

...

Can;t wait to see these painted, and you know you now MUST post finally done pics :)

~ AL
That looks like a Custom SAM-X on the left (I've been meaning to get one of those) ... and what looks like a Space Shuttle stack on the far right (Dr. Zooch version?) ... a couple of military-type missiles just to the left of that... . What's that one with the complicated-looking payload in the clear tube, behind the LJ-II?

Looks a bit like my table, as well. But I have a different color scheme, though - almost all of mine use white glassine-coated tubes! :D

Oh! and balsa nose cones, too...

Mark

[Rocket Doctor]

Thanks to all who have replied, all information was very helpful.

A big "THANK YOU" to Rocket Doctor for the parts with which I was able to complete the Delta Clipper.

I'm trying to figure out how to decrease the file (file is too big to attach) so that I can send a photo of the rocket.

Again thanks to all.........

Jim

Jim
Your Welcome....
RD