Ace Rocket Manufacturing

[NavyChief]

Ok old timers',

And that is said proudly. No disrespect.

Ok, I won a rocket called Legal Allegro from that awful place Ebay. Has anyone heard of the company called Ace Rocket Manufacturing from Mission Hills California. I actually only wanted the NC out of the kit. I won the kit without any instructions accompanying it. There was a Aerotech specification sheet that was included that is copyrighted in January 1983 from California Rocketry, if that tells ya how old the kit is. And it looks like Ace used to be located in San Fernando, CA. No street address included.

Tony
:eek:

[tbzep]

Yep. Ace made the nice lightweight 5:1 (or was it 5.5:1?) ratio nosecones for 4" tubing. At the time, PML and LOC were making shorter nosecones that just didn't look right for most of the rockets I was building, plus the ACE cones were cheaper. I have several of them on my HPR rockets, but I don't have any unused ones left.

Korey Kline founded the company in the latter 70's, IIRC. He later formed Hypertek which makes hybrids.

If any of you read Rosinfield's Launch article, he conviently left out the fact that a Hypertek system was the first commercial hobby hybrid flown, not as a beta or a demo, but by a paying customer. Both Aerotech and Hypertek were at the Manchester field that day flying demos. I can't remember who bought the motor and flew it, but I think I still have a video tape of it somewhere. I can't remember which launch it was, but I think it was "Spears 2" when Lamothe fried another rocket with a "dragon's breath" motor.

[snaquin]

Ace Rockets also made the Legal Eagle rocket. It shared the "Legal" name with the Legal Allegro because both of these 3x24mm cluster sport rockets could legally be flown within NAR limits.

I think the Ace Legal Allegro used 2.25" dia. tubing with approx. 6" ogive nose cone. Maybe someone else on the forum may know but the Semroc BTH-70 is probably a pretty close match but I think Carl only makes the Secant Ogive for the ARCAS kits in that size tubing. You may consider Carl, Sandman or BMS if you don't mind a balsa cone for your kit. Back in the day Composite Dynamics and Stargate Rocketry also sold similar sized tubing but I'm not exactly sure the wall thickness, but they were heavy walled and about 2.25" od.

Al Swackhammer will most likely chime in. He has some original ACE rockets and plans. Ace parts were pretty commonplace with early HPR scratch builders and I saw a bunch of the Ace rockets in action at the first LDRS that I attended in Hartsel, CO.

California Rocketry (Jerry Irvine's publication) featured advertisements for Ace Rockets and made mention of Korey Kline in almost every issue.

.

[NavyChief]

Yah, the kit I won looks to be complete with exception of the instructions/plans (not included). I could probably build it, if I knew which side of the cut fins was the leading edge and also what distance do I inset the 3 long motor tubes into the main body tube. The kit included a NC, already cut fins (although they are warped), a baffle kit, main body, 3 long motor tubes (look to be 24mm) and a 3' estes plastic type of parachute.

Tony

[ghrocketman]

It should be easy to determine the root edge (edge glued to the tube) of the fins as the grain should always be semi-perpendicular to the body tube (it should NEVER be parallel to the tube).
The grain should slope from highest point (in relation to the nose of the rocket) on the root edge to lowest point on the outer most edge from the root.

[NavyChief]

Ok. I knew that. I must have had a blonde moment. Now I feel really dumb.

I have done web searches for pics or plans, and can not find any. After I get home from work today, I will try contacting the original owner of ACE.

Tony
SI International - OKC
eLearning Application Developer
NAR 87549

[tbzep]

Are these plywood, basswood or balsa fins? The grain should tell you for basswood or balsa, but grain is often ignored with plywood because each ply runs a different direction anyway.

[NavyChief]

Basswood. but really warped. Less hassle to just cut new ones.
Tony

[snaquin]

Yah, the kit I won looks to be complete with exception of the instructions/plans (not included). I could probably build it, if I knew which side of the cut fins was the leading edge and also what distance do I inset the 3 long motor tubes into the main body tube. The kit included a NC, already cut fins (although they are warped), a baffle kit, main body, 3 long motor tubes (look to be 24mm) and a 3' estes plastic type of parachute.

Tony

I can see where finding the root edge of this particular planform could be a problem since you lack the instructions because of the fin design. These fins mount in the same configuration as the LOC/Precision 4-29SS, not like the Public Missiles Phobos.

Legal Allegro fins mounted the same as the Allegro fins, see below. Allegro had four motor tubes with four fins and the Legal Allegro was basically it's baby brother.

Personally, I'd cut the new set from 1/8" Lite Ply.

Your three motor tubes should be about 23" long and should extend out the main airframe about 21". Do you have a tube coupler with your kit? If so, the motor mount tubes mount in that tube coupler to center it into the 2.25" dia airframe. How is the fit of the motor mount tube in the main airframe?

Hope this helps.

{The ACE Allegro image below originally appeared in the Jan 82 issue of California Rocketry}

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[NavyChief]

Steve,

Thanks for the information!!! It really helps. I will develop the rocksim file tomorrow during my lunch break. Yah, I took the measurements of the kit parts when I got home today. Yes, the MTs are 23" long with the BT being 17.5 inches long and 2.25 inches diameter. Nose cone measured about 5-5/8 inches (above the shoulder) with 2" that will be sunk in the BT when mounted.

The fins are a in the shape of a elongated right triangle with sides of 3-5/8 x 9-7/8 and 10.5 inches per side.

The header card mentioned recommended motors of 3 D12s or 3 E6s.
I will have to run some rocksim comparisons to see what would be optimum. Lord knows I wont be able to launch until late april. Oklahoma has some bad winter time weather. High winds or its always drizzling and raining.

Although I am starting to dabble in some KN/DX motor technology lately. I have been surfing Yawn's and Nakka's websites. And have actually made a new 18mm motors that ran just fine by themselves. A little more practice and I might make the jump to 24mm ones.

Again thanks for the information.

Just Jerry from the Rocketry Planet forum said to keep the paint job simple with black fins and NC and florecent orange for the BT.


Tony
:D


I will make a post trail when I start building it.

[Jerry Irvine]

Ace Rockets also made the Legal Eagle rocket.

Composite Dynamics and Stargate Rocketry also sold similar sized tubing but I'm not exactly sure the wall thickness, but they were heavy walled and about 2.25" od.

California Rocketry (Jerry Irvine's publication) featured advertisements for Ace Rockets and made mention of Korey Kline in almost every issue.


2.175 x 2.25. U.S. Rockets stocks it.

The Legal Eagle is an entirely different planform.

Korey Kline: The Ace of Space!

What's funny is I created this document. Somewhere I have the original!!

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8354

Jerry

[NavyChief]

Ok. I took some measurements last night of what came in my eBay won kit. Attached is the rockSim file (version 7) of what I came up with. The items that did not come in the kit was the screweye for the nosecone attachment and that bodytube that supports the fins.

How do I get RockSIM to play nice for me?? I need that bottom main body tube to disappear so that the fins attach to the motor mounts. There should only be one 2.25 inch body tube.

Nosecone looks like a Balsa Machining hollowed nosecone. Shoulder is definately made of balsa. Inside the hollowed nosecone is some ugly black hard rubber junk. Might have been an attempt at nose weight or maybe internal anti-crush support for the NC.

When I get back home today, I will take better pics of that NC.

Tony

[snaquin]

2.175 x 2.25. U.S. Rockets stocks it.

The Legal Eagle is an entirely different planform.

Korey Kline: The Ace of Space!

What's funny is I created this document. Somewhere I have the original!!

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8354

Jerry

I forgot what issue of CRM that came from, I'll look it up when I get back to the house tonight and update the post with the date.

It's a pretty rare find to get a kit like that these days off of Ebay. I would imagine most guys that bought ACE rockets would have built and flown them.

.

[snaquin]

Ok. I took some measurements last night of what came in my eBay won kit. Attached is the rockSim file (version 7) of what I came up with. The items that did not come in the kit was the screweye for the nosecone attachment and that bodytube that supports the fins.

How do I get RockSIM to play nice for me?? I need that bottom main body tube to disappear so that the fins attach to the motor mounts. There should only be one 2.25 inch body tube.

Nosecone looks like a Balsa Machining hollowed nosecone. Shoulder is definately made of balsa. Inside the hollowed nosecone is some ugly black hard rubber junk. Might have been an attempt at nose weight or maybe internal anti-crush support for the NC.

When I get back home today, I will take better pics of that NC.

Tony

Tony,

I think when I built similar designs in RockSim I used a "phantom" tube inserted in the middle of the motor tubes with a zero weight with the od of the phantom tube used to seat the fins against. It is difficult to explain. I will try to take a look at your RockSim file and get back to you.

.

[snaquin]

Steve,

Just Jerry from the Rocketry Planet forum said to keep the paint job simple with black fins and NC and florecent orange for the BT.


Tony
:D


I painted many of my first composite powered rockets with that very same color scheme, and still do ..... :)

.

[snaquin]

How do I get RockSIM to play nice for me?? I need that bottom main body tube to disappear so that the fins attach to the motor mounts. There should only be one 2.25 inch body tube.

Tony

Tony,

This will give you an idea of how I work wedge fins into RockSim for a given design. This file is a work in progress but look it over and I think you'll see what I was trying to describe.

.

[NavyChief]

Steve,

The light bulb just went on. I tried something like that, but my invisible tube was outside those motor mounts.

Tony


To all those who helped me in this ACE Rocket OOP Legal Allegro issue:

Thank you!!!

I learned alot about an OOP Rocket (especially one that I had not seen listed online) and about rockSIM. Couple that with my new found knowledge about KNO3 and sugar, I am fixing to lunge forward in my rocketry past-time.

respectfully,
Anthony Jackman
US Navy Senior Chief Petty Officer (ret)
NAR 87549 :) :cool: :D

[NavyChief]

All,

With all the effort I put into researching this land2space vehicle, I am itching to build it. The wife says that I have to finish the two projects that I am currently working on:

Estes Prowler (modified)
BARCLONE Vindicator



When I start the build on this Allegro, I will start a new build thread on here and maybe YORF.

Tony