Decal Problems

[Prairie Flyer]

Hello all,
I have been builing some vintage kits of late and am having trouble with the decals. Some wont stay on after drying (even with decal set) others are so brittle they break into pieces as soon as they hit the water.

Any ideas how to solve this or other options?

I have included a pic of my growing fleet :D

[jay]

Real nice fleet pic Jon! Try applying Microscale Liquid Decal Film on the decals and let dry. Then go ahead and dip 'em in water and apply them to the rocket using the decal set. :)

[Phred]

I agree,

I have had this happen myself to an original Red max decal set no less! :eek:
That is what got me started on drawing and printing decals.

The microscale decal film coats the entire decal, and helps a great deal with this problem. Use a cheapo 1" foam brush from Walmart to spread the film, and toss it after use. It only takes 15-20 min for the decal film to dry, then you are ready to go. One thing: the entire sheet is one large decal now, so cut as close to the decal as possible. I often use an exacto knife to ensure I can get really close. Straight bladed Embroidery scissors are my second choice. (try Michael's and use the 40% off coupon.)

To keep as much of the old glue intact as possible, dip the decal in slightly soapy water for only 10 seconds, then sit it on a paper towel for another 30 seconds. Soaking in water the entire time dissolves the glue on the back of the decal completely, and it just floats away into the water.

For model rockets, you do not have to use decal set if you think it is interfering with adhesion. Let the decal dry, then apply some decal set on top, and you will get the same result.

A final coat of future floor polish (again with the foam brush) will protect the decals and help keep old decals from peeling. If you need a dull finish for a scale model, apply Testor's dullcoat after waiting a full day for the future to dry.

I hope this helps!!

Phred

[scigs30]

If you look at my post you can see that all I build is vintage Estes Kits. Yes the decals can be a pain and at times unusable. I figured since I was spending so much money on vintage kits I might as well spend money on an Alps printer. This is what I do now.....When I open the kit I scan my decals in high resolution. I then trace the drawing in Coreldraw. Here is one of the best parts of the Alps Printer...I am able to spot print so I can match the orig. color to a T. I am also able to print whites, Foils and metallic. So now I print my decal to the exact specs of the orig decal. For most of my builds I am able to use the orig. decal with the above recommendations from Phred. Once in awhile the decals are in bad shape so I have to use my own. Also on occasion I will be applying the orig. decals and one part may get ruined so now I have my own set. I know this sounds like a lot of work, but if you are going to spend a lot of money on building a Vintage kit I think it is well worth it. I also use my Alps for other models so for me it was well worth the purchase. I bought my Alps printer on Craigslist for a good price, I did have to drive to pick it up but that is ok.....I found another printer for sale so now I have 2. Papa Tango sells ink so I buy a set of colors every month so I will have a generous supply to last until someone designs another printer of this caliper. IF you build a lot of models...Planes, rockets, WWII plastics and others, well the investment is well worth it. JMO.....Dave

[scigs30]

Just bought another alps. 50 dollars.

[Ltvscout]

Just bought another alps. 50 dollars.
Where'd you find one at that price?!?

[scigs30]

Thrift store. It works great came in the box with eveything. A couple of times a month I go to the thrift stores and antique stores looking for collectables. I have found some of my Estes kits this way. I also collect old balsa wood airplanes and I always find one or two on my adventures. I now have 3 Alps so I will give my brother one. He makes resin models so it will come in handy.

[Prairie Flyer]

Thanks for the input. I will try the micro scale and start looking for an ALPS printer.

And I agree its very upseting to spend alot of money on a vintage kit, spend time carefully building it , then have the decals go to poop on you.
Thanks again.

[scigs30]

I am looking into another Alps printer that I found on Craigslist for 75.00. The person says they may have a buyer but won't know until tomorrow. If the person backs out they are going to sell it to me. These printers are out there just be patient and stay away from ebay. They are overpriced and may not work. I did buy one from ebay, but it was a buy it now for 100.00 with a bunch of inks. This person also guaranteed it to work or my money back. The inks are still out there but they are pricey.

[chanstevens]

The Micro-Sol products are outstanding, but can be confusing if not applied in the right sequence to the right object:

1) Apply "Liquid Decal Film" (aka MI-12, blue labeling on bottle) to old/thin decals first, BEFORE GETTING WET! This takes about 20 minutes to dry. Foam squeegee brush works great for this.

2) Optional step--apply Micro Gloss (aka MI-4) to the painted surface. Works basically like a clear coat, provides great gloss so that decals don't look too shiny against relatively flat surface.

3) Apply "Micro Set" setting solution to the model where the decal will sit. Another blue labeled bottle...aka MI-1. The main benefit of using this is that it dramatically improves the reaction between the decal adhesive and the paint, for a better bond. Also softens the decal a bit for working on funky surfaces, such as corrugated Saturn wraps, dimples on Interceptor pods, etc.

4) Apply "Micro-Sol" (red labeled bottle, aka MI-2) to the decal after it has been applied to the model. Used in conjunction with Micro Set, the decal is basically permanent at this point, as it forces a fantastic bond, even on durved/irregular surfaces. Don't even think about trying to reposition the decal after this stuff hits it--make sure you are aligned just right before applying the Micro-Sol.

More info, including a nifty one-of-everything bundle is available at http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=FINPROD

--Chan Stevens

[tbzep]

Chan is right on the money. However, you might want to think twice about using Micro-Set when doing a big roll pattern or other large wrap that takes a bit of time to get lined up right. It will soften the decal enough to make it hard to move it around without damaging it. It's no problem with small decals, though.

[scigs30]

This is one I just bought today after looking on Craigslist.
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/ele/597849538.html

Like I said stay away from Ebay and you can find a working Alps printer for 100.00. These printers sell for over 500.00 on Ebay.

[scigs30]

Here is another printer, a little more expensive than the one I bought today for 50.00 dollars , but still better than Ebay. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/sys/603061902.html

[Prairie Flyer]

Seems like a good package but a littlemore than I want to spend right now.

And I definteley see the point about big roll patterns being hard to do with the micro.

[Ltvscout]

Seems like a good package but a littlemore than I want to spend right now.
What Scigs is pointing out is that if you ever do want to get an Alps printer for yourself, you're much better looking in places other than eBay. Those really are fantastic prices he's finding in comparison to the many hundreds of dollars they go for on eBay.

[scigs30]

My brother bought his MD1000 the other day for 25 dollars at a thrift shop. I helped him set it up and it works great. He builds plastic models and would like to design his own decals. These printers have been the best investment I have made since I like building models. Like I said the inks can be expensive. One White ink cost about 15 dollars. The black and color inks are about 8.00 each.

[Arley Davis]

For years now I have used Model Masters Lacquer Overcoat in Gloss. Just spray a coat over the older decals let dry and then cut the decals out before dipping in the warm water. After all the decals have been applied I allow them to dry at least overnight and then apply a layer of the Gloss Lacquer over the rocket to protect the decals and paint job. There is also Simi-Gloss and Dull Lacquer!

As for the decals you can purchase many older decals from the following companies.

http://www.tangopapadecals.com/

http://towrowrow.tripod.com/excelsiorrocketry/

I have drawn up my own copes of decals with Corel Draw and sent them to Tanga Papa to be produced for me.

For example here is what I made up of the Estes Astron decals for Cloning the Old Estes rockets, that I had sent to Tanga Papa to have made into a 81/2 x 14 decal sheet..

[barone]

Arley dude....welcome back man! Where/how ya been?

Oh sorry...off topic......I just use my injet printer and decal paper from hobby lobby. Can't print white and metallics though.

[Prairie Flyer]

Got ya about where to buy one from.
Will keep my eye out for one in my price range.
Was kinda wondering about using the decal paper form Testors on my laser printer I have now.
But the more I think about it , I think I will make buying an ALPS a priority since vintage kits seems to be my interest and I have had 2 now that the decals when to poop after weeks of building the rocket.
Seems like if your gonna spend 100 bucks or more on a kit in only makes sense to have a good decal set to match. I will try the Micro first though.

[tbzep]

I've been watching Memphis and Nashville Craig's List for a while and have yet to see an ALPS printer. Evidently they've all been hoarded by people in San Francisco and L.A. :confused:

[Ltvscout]

I've been watching Memphis and Nashville Craig's List for a while and have yet to see an ALPS printer. Evidently they've all been hoarded by people in San Francisco and L.A. :confused:
Heh, I just looked at all the lists in WI, IL, MI and MN and nada. I did find a few overpriced, opened Estes starter sets though. ;)