Older Estes Alpha II (i think) wanted

[metalhead100]

First Hello guys i have been lurking here and re-learning for a while ,I have just gotten back into rockets with my 6 year old son.

First launch was last week......good thing Dad saved those pads and controllers!

I have read Stines Handbook many times(it was a favorite of mine at the school library) and am a sport flyer.
I also fly RC aircraft at a club (helis and planes gas and electric) and model HO trains.

Anyhow.......I am looking to replace my first rocket ever.....It was a Estes Alpha....2 or 3....

Red plastic Nose and Molded red plastic fin unit with white body tube and black "rotation" decals....

No stickers like the new stuff.
No flourescent orange either......the new one is ugly....

I would like a kit.....but used/flown would be ok.

I live in the USA and would be able to paypal you ect.........feel free to email me off the list.

Thanks

Jim Hail

I have built and flown around 15 Estes kits..........and Just finnished a Nova Payloader this weekend.....Me and my son now have 5 rockets and a Blast off flight pack waiting for better weather.

[CPMcGraw]

First Hello guys i have been lurking here and re-learning for a while ,I have just gotten back into rockets with my 6 year old son.

First launch was last week......good thing Dad saved those pads and controllers!

Welcome to the asylum!

I have read Stines Handbook many times(it was a favorite of mine at the school library) and am a sport flyer...I am looking to replace my first rocket ever.....It was a Estes Alpha....2 or 3....

Red plastic Nose and Molded red plastic fin unit with white body tube and black "rotation" decals...

That's the Alpha III. The original line-up goes like this:

K-25 Alpha (balsa NC and fins)
1225 Alpha (same as K-25)
Alpha II (for educators only, balsa fins, may have used either balsa or plastic NC)
Alpha III (plastic NC and fin unit)
Alpha IV (anniversary edition, identical to the III)

No stickers like the new stuff.
No flourescent orange either......the new one is ugly....

I would like a kit.....but used/flown would be ok.

I have built and flown around 15 Estes kits..........and Just finnished a Nova Payloader this weekend.....Me and my son now have 5 rockets and a Blast off flight pack waiting for better weather.

I live in the USA and would be able to paypal you ect.........feel free to email me off the list.

Thanks

Jim Hail

Suggestion:

The Alpha is one rocket everyone needs at least ONE of in their collection. Go order a balsa NC (BNC-50K) and all the other parts you'll need from either SEMROC or BMS, and build yourself a clone of the K-25. It flies much better because it is much lighter than the plastic version. Probably would be no more expensive than getting a new kit, and would be more fun to build, too. No stickers, either: The original Alpha didn't have any decals...:rolleyes:

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Or you could go out and buy one of the currently available "ugly sister" Alpha III's and paint it to match your old one. Spray the cone and fin units red and get yourself a matching length of BT-50, a few feet of Kevlar and some sewing elastic. The motor mount and rings ought to be fine. I did this a few years back and wasn't the least bit impressed with the available decal, so the project is a bit dusty right now. :rolleyes: Anyone have a cleaned up scan?

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Oh, yeah. The current crop of Alpha III's, (and the 40th anniversary Alpha IV,) have a rather unfortunate warp in at least one of the rear fins. You'll also have to contend with that.

[Rocket Doctor]

First Hello guys i have been lurking here and re-learning for a while ,I have just gotten back into rockets with my 6 year old son.

First launch was last week......good thing Dad saved those pads and controllers!

I have read Stines Handbook many times(it was a favorite of mine at the school library) and am a sport flyer.
I also fly RC aircraft at a club (helis and planes gas and electric) and model HO trains.

Anyhow.......I am looking to replace my first rocket ever.....It was a Estes Alpha....2 or 3....

Red plastic Nose and Molded red plastic fin unit with white body tube and black "rotation" decals....

No stickers like the new stuff.
No flourescent orange either......the new one is ugly....

I would like a kit.....but used/flown would be ok.

I live in the USA and would be able to paypal you ect.........feel free to email me off the list.

Thanks

Jim Hail

I have built and flown around 15 Estes kits..........and Just finnished a Nova Payloader this weekend.....Me and my son now have 5 rockets and a Blast off flight pack waiting for better weather.

Jim

I have a 1225 alpha (balsa fins) PM for details

[mojo1986]

Hi Jim. Welcome back to the hobby! It's great that you have a six-year-old son to share it with! I agree that, if you plan on building your Alpha, you would be better off to order the parts from Semroc (just a wonderful company to deal with...........you won't be disappointed). Going this route will save you money. I don't know whether Semroc would have the decal, but if they don't, I have an original one that I would be happy to send to you (PM me). You could also shop Ebay............I believe there is a built Alpha for sale there right now. Finally, if only the original Alpha III will do, I have a sealed kit that I will sell for the price I paid for it...........just send me a PM.

Joe

[johnnwwa]

I just checked, SEMROC has all the parts to build an Alpha except Decals and BT50H (on back order) Fins are laser cut :) You could cut your own BT.

BTW Welcome
And while your at SEMROC make sure you pick up a " Golden Scout " or two.


BAR
John

[Royatl]

Oh, yeah. The current crop of Alpha III's, (and the 40th anniversary Alpha IV,) have a rather unfortunate warp in at least one of the rear fins. You'll also have to contend with that.

just about all Alpha IIIs, even from the beginning, have this problem. Partly it is due to the difficulty of molding thin flat plates (and different plastic compositions used over the years), partly due to packaging and storage. My Alpha IV didn't have the problem when I first built it, but one fin now has a distinctive warp. My Phantom (clear plastic) was in the best condition, but it eventually got knocked off a perch by Pooter the Cat and broke. Some CA for plastics solved that (on the fin, not on Pooter).

White, black, and clear plastics seem to work better than the red and orange plastics. (white was used in the Citation Quasar, chrome plated, not plated, clipped and not clipped),
though it could just be that the red and orange pieces were made in such large quantities that we see more imperfections from them.

[Daniel Runyon]

I would definitely agree with the idea of using Semroc parts to clone it. As a matter of fact, probably the single best thing I've ever done towards spending super high quality time with my son (also 6, 5 when we started) has been to get a big old box FULL of misc Semroc parts and spending a couple of hours each evening building rockets and watching Star Treks together! Since he is not yet old / coordinated enough to do very much direct work on the rockets, the Star Treks give him something to be emersed in while we are working on them, and they also provide GREAT subject matter to discuss and learn with. We recently finished building a custom fin shaped Alpha from these parts.

[kurtschachner]

Speaking of the Alpha II, I noticed that Estes has the instruction sheet up on their site for this model:

http://www.estesrockets.com/instructions/K-25%20alpha%20II.pdf

[stefanj]

When I visited my parents in Florida last month, they presented me with a 1970s vintage Estes starter set. They found it in a thrift store.


It had the old "Solar" launch controller and an Alpha III with red fins. Also two A8-3 motors and some crumbly igniters. The model had never been launched; I'm going to paint the body tube white, put on the decals, and use it as a welcome to the hobby gift. (With new motors.)

[gpoehlein]

Speaking of the Alpha II, I noticed that Estes has the instruction sheet up on their site for this model:

http://www.estesrockets.com/instructions/K-25%20alpha%20II.pdf

That's interesting, but I honestly don't see any difference at all between the Alpha and the Alpha II. They seem pretty much identical to me.

I did find one interesting thing looking at the Alpha II instructions - the shock cord attachment to the motor hook - I'm gonna have to use that technique for more rockets - its even easier than tying around the centering ring, motor tube or engine block. And I figure it will work even better with kevlar!

Greg

[K.M.Knox]

Man, the Alpha brings back memories... My brother and I launching rockets together, building and dreaming of space, watching them enter space on a C6-7 :rolleyes: never to be seen again.

I would recommend the Kevlar to shock cord method on all builds, but I will also tell you that I am lazy and use the old tri-fold method a lot.

[kurtschachner]

That's interesting, but I honestly don't see any difference at all between the Alpha and the Alpha II. They seem pretty much identical to me.

Greg

There really isn't any difference, it's just always been a good trivia question to ask if there ever was an Alpha II. I knew there was but I'd never seen the instructions before. I just happened to stumble onto them while perusing the Estes site. I actually found it by accident because the Estes list shows it as a K-25 which of course is the regular Alpha. At first I thought the listing as "Alpha II" was an error. They should have the listing as EK-25 instead.

Like someone mentioned, the Estes plan site has some gems but the way it is organized leaves something to be desired.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

I always thought it was a progression. The Alpha had balsa fins and cone, the Alpha II had balsa fins and plastic cone, the Alpha III had the orange plastic cone and fins, and the Alpha IV had the prismatic disco-ball tube with plastic cone and fins, AND spiffy disco sticker set.

And now that I've had a chance to print it off and give it a look, did anyone else notice that the Alpha II parts list includes a decal sheet?

[mojo1986]

Alpha III starter kit on Ebay today..............

http://cgi.ebay.com/ESTES-MODEL-ROCKET-ALPHA-III-SET-1406_W0QQitemZ300205620152QQihZ020QQcategoryZ2567QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[kurtschachner]

I always thought it was a progression. The Alpha had balsa fins and cone, the Alpha II had balsa fins and plastic cone, the Alpha III had the orange plastic cone and fins, and the Alpha IV had the prismatic disco-ball tube with plastic cone and fins, AND spiffy disco sticker set.

And now that I've had a chance to print it off and give it a look, did anyone else notice that the Alpha II parts list includes a decal sheet?


Great, I never noticed that. Now we have to see if someone has that decal.

I don't believe it was a progression like you think. The Alpha II is an old kit that was only available to educators. But I think it was out for a long time along with the regular Alpha.

The Alpha III did of course come out later though. I remember seeing that in the catalog as a kid and thinking "impostor!". WHO would build such a thing? PLASTIC fins!?!?

I know someone who used to have an Alpha II kit but I don't think he has it anymore. Scott, do you have one?

[jadebox]

I don't believe it was a progression like you think. The Alpha II is an old kit that was only available to educators. But I think it was out for a long time along with the regular Alpha.

The Alpha II added die-cut fins. So, it is sort of progressive. Alpha I - cut your own fins, Alpha II - die-cut fins, Alpha III - plastic fins.

-- Roger

[CPMcGraw]

The Alpha II added die-cut fins. So, it is sort of progressive. Alpha I - cut your own fins, Alpha II - die-cut fins, Alpha III - plastic fins.

-- Roger

Some might suggest that the transition from balsa fins to plastic fins constitutes a REgression rather than a PROgression... :rolleyes:

[Solomoriah]

The current Alpha kit has die-cut fins; is it, then, an Alpha II?

I scratch-built an Alpha clone with a midline break... I've been jokingly calling it an "Alpha II" but now I'll have to think of a new name.

http://rocketry.newcenturycomputers.net/alphaii.html

[Rocket Doctor]

The current Alpha kit has die-cut fins; is it, then, an Alpha II?

I scratch-built an Alpha clone with a midline break... I've been jokingly calling it an "Alpha II" but now I'll have to think of a new name.

http://rocketry.newcenturycomputers.net/alphaii.html

How aabout the Alpha II Jr or Alpha II Breakaway

[Shreadvector]

IIRC, the Alpha II had dots impressed into the fins near the root edge to help the teachers learn what the root edge was so they could glue the proper edge to the body tube. Also, (IIRC) it was metric.

I'm in a rush to a meeting, but did anyone mention the instructions on the Estes website:

http://www.estesrockets.com/instructions/K-25%20alpha%20II.pdf

[Shreadvector]

IIRC, the Alpha II had dots impressed into the fins near the root edge to help the teachers learn what the root edge was so they could glue the proper edge to the body tube. Also, (IIRC) it was metric.

I'm in a rush to a meeting, but did anyone mention the instructions on the Estes website:

http://www.estesrockets.com/instructions/K-25%20alpha%20II.pdf

Looks like I recalled correctly for the dots but not for the metric measurements....

And dig the snap swivel and wacky shock cord mount method. If they only had Kevlar....

[metalhead100]

WOW ,thanks to everyone who responded.Im floored.......

I am contacting Joe for the kit he has.

The reason i want this exact rocket is it was my first ever. Lost it on a c engine, Looked forever for it and was very bummed.

I was just at hobby lobby today and guess what followed me home..........a Estes Big Daddy C-11 D and E Kit.and a pack of D's for it also.(comes with adapter slug for c and d power)...the short stubby 3 inch round fella is fully framed up as we speak,letting the fillets dry....My 6 year old son was the sanding helper....and hes learning to read a ruler!

See my post in the Projects forum for tips on factory errors in BT slotting for fins....

And i have a nice fabric 24 inch Estes chute I have had just waiting for it.....And i almost bought the regular bagged Alpha kit,but it was $12.00.

They also had the New Starter set w/orange Alpha and launch equipt. for $19.99.

It almost came home also....for a re-paint,but then i would have 3 launchers ugh.

And then there was the crazy 12 inch parachutes in single packs (estes plastic prefab) and they wanted $8.00 for JUST a chute.....I laughed....I paid that for 2 rocket kits in a set with 12" chutes at wally world.(basic builder set).

Anyhow.......this Big Daddy is my first rocket with a D or E......Should be fun.

Thanks for everyones help and welcoming.........now wheres that rattle can......Lets paint this sucker......

Jim

[metalhead100]

Solomoriah.......Call yours a Ralpha........or Alpha-n-II (alpha in two)

[Solomoriah]

Solomoriah.......Call yours a Ralpha........
Sounds like what you do after a long night partying...

or Alpha-n-II (alpha in two)
Arg!

:D

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

WOW ,thanks to everyone who responded.Im floored.......

Yeah, it was a pretty pathetic response. We'll try to do better the next time. ;) :D

The reason i want this exact rocket is it was my first ever. Lost it on a c engine, Looked forever for it and was very bummed.

That's what I figured. I couldn't figure why everyone was pushing you toward the other Alphas. That would have been like someone pointing me toward the Beta Launch Vehicle when all I wanted was a simple Beta.

And i almost bought the regular bagged Alpha kit,but it was $12.00.

They also had the New Starter set w/orange Alpha and launch equipt. for $19.99.

It almost came home also....for a re-paint,but then i would have 3 launchers ugh.


Only three? :confused: You're not the real BAR deal until you're in double figures. ;)
Now, lets talk pictures. :cool:

[gpoehlein]

I'd say he's not a true BAR yet until he has at least two of every currently available kit sitting in the bag waiting to be built! :p

Wait - did I say just two of everything? I've lost count of how many Hi-Flyers I've bought in the last few weeks (they are cheap, and REALLY kitbashable! I just turned two of them into a two stage Egglofter! :D ) As for Alphas, I've built a couple of Alpha IIIs, one of which I repainted in the original red and white livery. I've also built a couple of Alphas, one of which is painted in the old white, red and black scheme like MY very first rocket. The second one is ready to be sanded, sealed and painted. I've got a third sitting there in the bag, that is going to be built like an original - got a BMS BNC-50K nose cone to make her just like my first. Yeah - I'm into nostalgia - still have my original 1973 Estes catalog - my goal is to clone every rocket I either had from that catalog (about a half dozen rockets) or WISHED I could have had (a MUCH larger list ;) )

Greg

[K.M.Knox]

Don't worry about too many launchers, I picked up a fourth just so I could get the Estes Crossfire. I love the lines on that simple little thing (Crossfire that is).

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

my goal is to clone every rocket I either had from that catalog

I think I already did this with the 1977 catalog. The toughest one was the Odyssey.

[barone]

.......Wait - did I say just two of everything? I've lost count of how many Hi-Flyers I've bought in the last few weeks (they are cheap, and REALLY kitbashable! I just turned two of them into a two stage Egglofter! :D ) ..........

Greg
Oh....I see a D ELA model.... :rolleyes:

[barone]

Make sure you check for Hobby Lobby 40% off coupons. There isn't one this week but they had one last week whcih means they'll probably have one next week. ;)

http://www.hobbylobby.com/site3/weekly/weekly.cfm

I think they use the same url each week..... :eek:

[metalhead100]

I also have the hi flyer.......Me and my son put it up on a a-8 and boy did it go!.........I wont dare put a c in it.its his first rocket.


Looks like i might just buy that alpha starter set and re-paint the orange thing.


Pics will come of the fleet (all five of em) and Big Daddy when i get it painted.

Jim

from rocketless for over 12 years to 6 in less than 2 weeks.........I have a problem.........but damn my hobby room smells good now!!!!!(after flight stench)

[CPMcGraw]

I also have the hi flyer.......Me and my son put it up on a a-8 and boy did it go!.........I wont dare put a c in it.its his first rocket.

Don't put a C6-7 or the C6-5 in the Hi-Flyer! It is not stable with this motor unless you add some ballast in the nose cone. This is an issue that we've talked about here, and it has been talked about on EMRR. This was also confirmed by RockSim.

[gpoehlein]

Oh....I see a D ELA model.... :rolleyes:

Of course you do... wait - no you won't, you're not coming this month! :p

Greg

[gpoehlein]

I also have the hi flyer.......Me and my son put it up on a a-8 and boy did it go!.........I wont dare put a c in it.its his first rocket.


Looks like i might just buy that alpha starter set and re-paint the orange thing.


Pics will come of the fleet (all five of em) and Big Daddy when i get it painted.

Jim

from rocketless for over 12 years to 6 in less than 2 weeks.........I have a problem.........but damn my hobby room smells good now!!!!!(after flight stench)

I'm just finishing a 13mm Hi-Flyer. I think a lot of these 18mm rockets will actually be more well behaved birds with a 13mm motor mount. And since I usually don't care about altitude (I LIKE to fly low power and get my rockets back) the upper limit of A3-4T isn't a problem for me. Another advantage of very low power - I usually don't have to walk more than 50 feet from the launch pad to retrieve my rockets! ;)

Greg

[Solomoriah]

Don't put a C6-7 or the C6-5 in the Hi-Flyer! It is not stable with this motor unless you add some ballast in the nose cone. This is an issue that we've talked about here, and it has been talked about on EMRR. This was also confirmed by RockSim.
The Hi-Flier needs about 3/16 oz., or about 5.32 grams, of nose weight. I use 6 computer screws with epoxy to hold them in place.

[ghrocketman]

With proper nose weight, the SU 18mm Aerotech D21 is a GREAT motor for a fire-n'-forget flight of a Hi-Flier or Wizard or Viking or similar BT-20 small rockets.

[metalhead100]

Ok well I went to hobby lobby and bought that 19.99 Alpha 3 Starter kit....(for that price ....i figured why not)....and decided to build it as it comes for now and re-paint later with Joes decals.

Thanks Joe!

Anyhow.......now i have plenty of launch gear.....ect.

Just got back from the field....me and my son flew 5 flights.........and came home with them all.

We didnt go over a B-6 today.

Thanks guys for the Ideas ect.

Jim

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

With proper nose weight, the SU 18mm Aerotech D21 is a GREAT motor for a fire-n'-forget flight of a Hi-Flier or Wizard or Viking or similar BT-20 small rockets.

Gosh, what fun? :confused:

[ghrocketman]

That's about the only use I have for small 3/4FNC BT-20 rockets (the last I checked, turning them into crater-makers is illegal :p )....too BOORRRRINGGGGG & too SMALL for ANY excitement other than a fire-n'-forget semi-orbital flight on an 18mm D that will approach Mach 1. :D

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

That's about the only use I have for small 3/4FNC BT-20 rockets (the last I checked, turning them into crater-makers is illegal :p )....too BOORRRRINGGGGG & too SMALL for ANY excitement other than a fire-n'-forget semi-orbital flight on an 18mm D that will approach Mach 1. :D

How are you about little kids? :eek:

[ghrocketman]

Not sure I understand the reference to little kids here ??? :confused:

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Not sure I understand the reference to little kids here ??? :confused:

Just a bad joke. You have no use for little rockets, so I wondered what your attitude was toward little kids. ;)

[metalhead100]

Thanks mojo1986 for the decal sheet! And Rocket Doctor for the Alpha Kit deal....


I will now fix up a white and red paint job for these spiffy black decals....and have a Alpha III in proper dress.... :eek:

Thanks to everyone for suggestions/help.....and Mojo and the good Doctor! :)

Jim Hail

[Maniac BAR]

Thanks mojo1986 for the decal sheet! And Rocket Doctor for the Alpha Kit deal....


I will now fix up a white and red paint job for these spiffy black decals....and have a Alpha III in proper dress.... :eek:

Thanks to everyone for suggestions/help.....and Mojo and the good Doctor! :)

Jim Hail


Dr. WHO???????

[Rocket Doctor]

Dr. WHO???????

You don't know who I am, the Rocket Doctor? You haven't seen the defunct Estes Forum Jan 2007 - April 21,2007???

Go to the bottom of the page and look at "Ask The Doctor"

[Intruder]

Dr. WHO???????

Dr. Love (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9jXsqOAgpE)

[Maniac BAR]

You don't know who I am, the Rocket Doctor? You haven't seen the defunct Estes Forum Jan 2007 - April 21,2007???

Go to the bottom of the page and look at "Ask The Doctor"


Yes, I know of you the Rocket Doctor but I was refering to "Dr. WHO"?? :p

You do know who THAT is, don't you?? :confused:

Man, I must have put too big a motor in that one and it just flashed off of the pad, clean over head and out of sight!!!!! :eek: :D

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Yes, I know of you the Rocket Doctor but I was refering to "Dr. WHO"?? :p

You do know who THAT is, don't you?? :confused:

Man, I must have put too big a motor in that one and it just flashed off of the pad, clean over head and out of sight!!!!! :eek: :D

Nah, I caught it. I just wasn't sure how to explain it. :rolleyes: ;)

[tbzep]

You don't know who I am, the Rocket Doctor? You haven't seen the defunct Estes Forum Jan 2007 - April 21,2007???

Go to the bottom of the page and look at "Ask The Doctor"

Some folks have a life outside of forums. :rolleyes:

[Maniac BAR]

Nah, I caught it. I just wasn't sure how to explain it. :rolleyes: ;)

WOW mark the calendars :eek: :eek:

Bill without a comeback :p

What next, woman in space. Oh yeah, been there, done that!!!

P.S. What is this "life" you talk about oh grasshopper :D

[tbzep]

WOW mark the calendars :eek: :eek:

Bill without a comeback :p

What next, woman in space. Oh yeah, been there, done that!!!

P.S. What is this "life" you talk about oh grasshopper :D

I hear that some folks actually do stuff other than build and fly rockets, and hang out on forums talking about building and flying rockets. Hard to believe, eh? http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/eek2.gif

[MarkB.]

Hey, here's an Alpha II list 3-30-08

eBay item no. 200211948554

[Doug Sams]

Hey, here's an Alpha II list 3-30-08

eBay item no. 200211948554OK, refresh my memory. What makes a II a II?

Looking at this one, the II is clearly present on the kit card, but the paint scheme looks the same as the I. Interestingly enough, the back view of the bag shows the decals for the latter day model (still a I) which are not at all consistent with the kit card. Now I'm really confused.

Doug


.

[Rocket Doctor]

Some folks have a life outside of forums. :rolleyes:

Gotta keep up on things........maybe I'll get hired back...........NOT!!!!!

[Solomoriah]

The Alpha II was an educator-only kit, evidently. The fins included pinholes to mark the root edge, and the engine tube was a bit longer, allowing the rubber shock cord to be attached to the engine mount (outside the engine tube). No idea how well that worked.

[Mark II]

The Alpha II was an educator-only kit, evidently. The fins included pinholes to mark the root edge, and the engine tube was a bit longer, allowing the rubber shock cord to be attached to the engine mount (outside the engine tube). No idea how well that worked.
The #1225 Alpha also has pinholes in the die-cut fins to indicate the root edge. At least mine does, anyway.

Mark

[Mark II]

Speaking of the Alpha II, I noticed that Estes has the instruction sheet up on their site for this model:

http://www.estesrockets.com/instructions/K-25%20alpha%20II.pdf
Estes also have the instruction sheets for the Alpha IV and the Metric Alpha there, too.

Mark

[Mark II]

I think I already did this with the 1977 catalog. The toughest one was the Odyssey.
I'm slowly working my way through the 1967 Estes catalog (with additions from '68 and '69), whenever I can squeeze in some time between other cloning projects. It will become the top priority soon enough, though. Cloning the K-29 and the K-36 (from 1969) ought to be fun. ;) Also, the K-7. :rolleyes:

(Anyone know where I can get a CPNC-50K and a clear fin unit?)

Mark

[MarkB.]

From one Mark to another,

When you get to the K-26 Arcas replace the tube with one 20.25 in. long and you'll be closer to scale. Also that kit suffers from what I call "500-F Syndrome"; the fancy red and white paint job was for display purposes not for flight articles.