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dwmzmm
03-19-2008, 12:19 AM
Hey Rocket Doctor; got the latest LAUNCH magazine several days ago, and really enjoyed
the article on Bill Simon and his role with the "Golden Days" of Estes Industries. There's a
full page with the article listing the designers of many of the Estes classic kits. Was wondering why the K-22 scale V-2 wasn't listed, and who produced this kit for Estes?

Rocket Doctor
03-19-2008, 05:59 AM
Hey Rocket Doctor; got the latest LAUNCH magazine several days ago, and really enjoyed
the article on Bill Simon and his role with the "Golden Days" of Estes Industries. There's a
full page with the article listing the designers of many of the Estes classic kits. Was wondering why the K-22 scale V-2 wasn't listed, and who produced this kit for Estes?

I will try to get that info for you and post it.

RD

dwmzmm
03-19-2008, 01:36 PM
I will try to get that info for you and post it.

RD

Please do. The K - 22 kit is one of my all time favorites. I still fly mine, used most recently
(last December @ JSC) for the parachute spot landing event at the Gulf Coast Regional Meet.
Pic below is that model on the pad (with the 1/2A6-2 engine) ready for the PSL event.

Rocket Doctor
03-20-2008, 05:22 AM
Haven't been able to get an answer for you yet, but, I'm still working on it. Maybe that's why it wasn't listed.

dwmzmm
03-20-2008, 09:43 AM
Do you think it might have been a scale design submitted by a model rocketeer customer?
There's also a few other classic kits not listed in the LAUNCH page (can't remember them off
the top of my head, since the magazine is in my room and I'm fixing to go to work; maybe
this evening I'll run through it and list the others, too).

Rocket Doctor
03-20-2008, 09:46 AM
Do you think it might have been a scale design submitted by a model rocketeer customer?
There's also a few other classic kits not listed in the LAUNCH page (can't remember them off
the top of my head, since the magazine is in my room and I'm fixing to go to work; maybe
this evening I'll run through it and list the others, too).

Like I had mentioned, maybe the info got lost over the years, records weren't always kept, or, have been discarded over the years due to management changes.

I will continue to search, wish me luck. But, I think it may be unknown at this point.Someone should have kept that info in a log for this exact reason. It was great that you started a new listing, it, just needs to be updated wvery year.

RD

dwmzmm
03-20-2008, 09:56 AM
If memory serves, the K - 22 V-2 first appeared in the 1966 Estes catalog (like, if that helps
any).....

What strikes me about this kit is it has more balsa components than paper! Same for the
Centuri V-2 (which I've built a clone of several years ago from balsa parts from BMS)....

MarkB.
03-20-2008, 02:45 PM
Doctor,

While you're looking, I noticed my favorite, K-26 Arcas, was not listed either . . . .

Carl@Semroc
03-20-2008, 04:26 PM
Wayne did not list the designer on many of the scale models. I guess his reasoning was that the design was already done; they were just producing the finished product.

I would like to see who made the design decisions to make the scale kits come alive. A good example is the Saturn 1B by Gene Street. It is not an exect scale model (like all the rest, for that matter!) and the beauty is in the interpretation.

Rocket Doctor
03-20-2008, 04:59 PM
Doctor,

While you're looking, I noticed my favorite, K-26 Arcas, was not listed either . . . .

I will try to find out about this one as well. I have suggested to vern that he include a section in his book on the kits and their designers so this information is saved fro future rocketeers.

dwmzmm
03-20-2008, 05:29 PM
Some may disagree with me, but that one page (along with the Bill Simon article) that has
the listing of Estes kits/designers was worth the cost of the magazine (and the pics of the
SEMROC Saturn 1-B launch)....

barone
03-20-2008, 05:36 PM
Some may disagree with me, but that one page (along with the Bill Simon article) that has
the listing of Estes kits/designers was worth the cost of the magazine (and the pics of the
SEMROC Saturn 1-B launch)....
You won't get a disagreement here :D

Carl@Semroc
03-20-2008, 05:45 PM
Some may disagree with me, but that one page (along with the Bill Simon article) that has
the listing of Estes kits/designers was worth the cost of the magazine (and the pics of the
SEMROC Saturn 1-B launch)....I think I agree on all counts! :D

There are a few that got dropped from the original list, but it is a good reference. Now if we just had one for Centuri, FSI, et al.

Mark shared the Bill Simon interview with me while it was still a work in progress, and it has to be one of the best interviews ever. I had tons of questions about the early days, and Bill hit enough of them to convince me that I would have liked to have been there. Bill is far too humble. He seems to see himself as a spectator to an historic period, but he was in fact a big part of the rise of model rocketry and Estes Industries. Like I said before, right man, right place, right time. Thanks again, Bill.

dwmzmm
03-20-2008, 06:42 PM
I think I agree on all counts! :D

There are a few that got dropped from the original list, but it is a good reference. Now if we just had one for Centuri, FSI, et al.

Mark shared the Bill Simon interview with me while it was still a work in progress, and it has to be one of the best interviews ever. I had tons of questions about the early days, and Bill hit enough of them to convince me that I would have liked to have been there. Bill is far too humble. He seems to see himself as a spectator to an historic period, but he was in fact a big part of the rise of model rocketry and Estes Industries. Like I said before, right man, right place, right time. Thanks again, Bill.

That b&w pic of Vern and Bill loading the Saturn - V and Mercury Redstone on the pad was the "trigger" that help me decide that I HAD to have those two kits (even though the
Saturn is missing the decals). In fact, shortly after I purchased the Deluxe Starter Set that
summer (1969), I then convinced my parents to buy me the Saturn - V and Mercury Redstone even though I had NO model rocket building experience whatsoever (other than
the Astron Alpha). Didn't take me long to see I wasn't (then) up to the task of building
two Skill Level - 5 kits so early in my model rocketry "career"......

Suggestion to future NARCON organizers; maybe Bill Simon should be invited as a keynote
speaker next year..... ;)

Rocket Doctor
03-20-2008, 08:05 PM
Here is some information that I have received about the V 2 and Arcas.

From waht information is available, Bill See designed the original V 2 with a lot of "over the shoulder' input from Vern, Gene Street and Bill Simon.

As far as the Arcas goes, the design was probably purchased from a customer, but, at this point , it's only speculation.

As I mentioned previously, records have been lost over the years and memories from 50 years ago aren't as clear as they once were.

I do hope that all kits from all manufacturers can be put into a master list for future rocketeers to have as a part of model rocketry history.

I also hope that each kit that has been produced has been dept by fellow rocketeers to show as examples of the history of the hobby.

Talking about history, I have contacted my Congressman and actually spoke to him in person regarding the Smithsonian medium display case. Hopefully, he can get something going on this.

I will report any progress as the info comes in.

As far as NARAM participants go, on Wednesday, the day off, the seperate Smithsoanian facility is only about a half hour away and the Washington facility is about an hour away, would make for a great side trip during NARAM.

PaulK
03-20-2008, 08:43 PM
Some may disagree with me, but that one page (along with the Bill Simon article) that has the listing of Estes kits/designers was worth the cost of the magazine (and the pics of the SEMROC Saturn 1-B launch)....I was really pleased how the 1-B page turned out, Mark did a great job of putting it together, and David takes really nice pics. My first claim to rocketry fame (well, ok, my only claim to any sort of fame...). :D I'm anxiously awaiting my copy!

Rocket Doctor
03-20-2008, 10:14 PM
Check out these sites.


www.v2rocket.com/start/scale/models.html

www.flyrockets.com/buy.asp

www.postwarv2.com

dwmzmm
03-20-2008, 10:25 PM
Rocket Doctor, thanks. I got two more models to add to the list:

First, the Gemini Titan (K-21, first appeared in the 1966 catalog) and the Alien Explorer (#1372, 1981 catalog). Guess I included these two since I have personal interest in them
in the form of the PDRocketry kits (pics below; you can also read my product review of these
kits on the EMRR website).

dwmzmm
03-20-2008, 10:28 PM
I was really pleased how the 1-B page turned out, Mark did a great job of putting it together, and David takes really nice pics. My first claim to rocketry fame (well, ok, my only claim to any sort of fame...). :D I'm anxiously awaiting my copy!

Hey, Paul, I thought you were already famous.... :D Nice build and excellent launch!!

dwmzmm
03-20-2008, 10:34 PM
Check out these sites.


www.v2rocket.com/start/scale/models.html

www.flyrockets.com/buy.asp

www.postwarv2.com


Look at this included in the last link, Rocket Doctor:

http://www.postwarv2.com/flyingkits/v2estes1222.html

Rocket Doctor
03-20-2008, 10:34 PM
Rocket Doctor, thanks. I got two more models to add to the list:

First, the Gemini Titan (K-21, first appeared in the 1966 catalog) and the Alien Explorer (#1372, 1981 catalog). Guess I included these two since I have personal interest in them
in the form of the PDRocketry kits (pics below; you can also read my product review of these
kits on the EMRR website).


Great photos, very nice job on the Gemini-Titan

dwmzmm
03-20-2008, 10:46 PM
Great photos, very nice job on the Gemini-Titan

Thanks; I'm also looking at doing nearly the same to my just received SEMROC 1/70 scale
Little Joe - II (Carl, are you listening?!) :eek:

Pic below of my SEMROC order received in excellent condition last weekend:

Carl@Semroc
03-20-2008, 10:50 PM
(Carl, are you listening?!) :eek:Always!

dwmzmm
03-20-2008, 11:23 PM
Here's a color photo of the first Little Joe - II's liftoff; notice the polished appearance of the
vehicle.

Ltvscout
03-21-2008, 01:11 AM
I was really pleased how the 1-B page turned out, Mark did a great job of putting it together, and David takes really nice pics. My first claim to rocketry fame (well, ok, my only claim to any sort of fame...). :D I'm anxiously awaiting my copy!
I just saw that the other day. Nice job, Paul and Dave!