Estes "E" launch controller

[STRMan]

What is the difference between the standard Estes launch controller and the "E" version? BP is BP, isn't it? Why would we need a "more powerful" launch controller for "E" engines? Is this just a marketing ploy by Estes?

[MKP]

Longer, thicker cords. The NAR safety code requires that you be at least 30 feet away with an E motor. With longer cords, theres more resistance, so the cords are thicker to make up for that.

[STRMan]

Thanks. That makes sense. I guess if I just took one of the 4 standard launch controllers I already have and modify it with longer, thicker leads, I'll be in compliance. Maybe I'll go much thicker on the leads, to make it even better for small clusters. Cool.

[tbzep]

Thanks. That makes sense. I guess if I just took one of the 4 standard launch controllers I already have and modify it with longer, thicker leads, I'll be in compliance. Maybe I'll go much thicker on the leads, to make it even better for small clusters. Cool.

For singles it will be fine with the above mods, but you really need to go 12v for clusters. Four AA batteries are pretty much a guarantee that you won't even get a two motor cluster to ignite successfully no matter how short and thick the wire is.

If you want to use one of those controllers for clusters, there's a writeup somewhere online that shows how to convert them to use with an external 12v battery. It's a simple modification. You can use an automotive battery that's too weak to start a car, or you can buy a cheap lawnmower battery for $15-20. If you don't want to deal with the acid, grab a 12v gel cell hobby battery for about $20.

[STRMan]

For singles it will be fine with the above mods, but you really need to go 12v for clusters. Four AA batteries are pretty much a guarantee that you won't even get a two motor cluster to ignite successfully no matter how short and thick the wire is.

If you want to use one of those controllers for clusters, there's a writeup somewhere online that shows how to convert them to use with an external 12v battery. It's a simple modification. You can use an automotive battery that's too weak to start a car, or you can buy a cheap lawnmower battery for $15-20. If you don't want to deal with the acid, grab a 12v gel cell hobby battery for about $20.

What a shame I can't find my first Estes launch controller that came with my Quasar starter kit back in the 70's. I remember that one hooked right up to our car battery with clamps.

[Rocket Doctor]

What a shame I can't find my first Estes launch controller that came with my Quasar starter kit back in the 70's. I remember that one hooked right up to our car battery with clamps.

Sometimes you can find them on ebay. Keep an eye out for one.

[CPMcGraw]

Sometimes you can find them on ebay. Keep an eye out for one.

That was the Astron controller, right? Just a few years ago Estes re-issued these in one of their starter sets, IIRC. Wish now I'd picked one up just for that controller. Didn't hang around long, though. I think the set was one of those foamie 13mm "Mighty Mite" combos...

[STRMan]

I was browsing about and I can across the POD launch controller by Fade to Black Rocket Works. Is anyone using this? It looks like it is made for mid powered engines. I wonder if the leads are large enough to support reliable cluster firing.

POD (http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2299/28/)

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k65/STRMan/POD.jpg

[Shreadvector]

AFAIK, the Astron Controller has not been around in well over a decade, perhaps two decades.


They had something that vaguely looked like it from a purely stylistic standpoint, but it had a 6 volt lamp and ultra thin wires and connected to 4 AA batteries in the cheesy plastic tower launch pad for the mini plastic rocket. They used a similar or perhaps the same part for the race set controllers.

That was the Astron controller, right? Just a few years ago Estes re-issued these in one of their starter sets, IIRC. Wish now I'd picked one up just for that controller. Didn't hang around long, though. I think the set was one of those foamie 13mm "Mighty Mite" combos...

[Rocketflyer]

I was browsing about and I can across the POD launch controller by Fade to Black Rocket Works. Is anyone using this? It looks like it is made for mid powered engines. I wonder if the leads are large enough to support reliable cluster firing.

POD (http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2299/28/)

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k65/STRMan/POD.jpg


Mercury Engineering has a single controller, 12v, that will handle most anything. You could cluster it, and add an extension to the firing leads for HPR. Good controller, good price. :)

[clhug]

For singles it will be fine with the above mods, but you really need to go 12v for clusters. Four AA batteries are pretty much a guarantee that you won't even get a two motor cluster to ignite successfully no matter how short and thick the wire is.

If you want to use one of those controllers for clusters, there's a writeup somewhere online that shows how to convert them to use with an external 12v battery. It's a simple modification. You can use an automotive battery that's too weak to start a car, or you can buy a cheap lawnmower battery for $15-20. If you don't want to deal with the acid, grab a 12v gel cell hobby battery for about $20.

Not questioning the accuracy of the information, but to the original question of the difference between the regular launch controller and the "E" launch controller, doesn't the "E" controller also still use only 4 AA batteries? So purely from the standpoint of making the standard controller like the E controller, the longer and thicker wires should be all that's needed, correct? The 12 V thing is a completely separate issue isn't it? Or do I misunderstand something about the "E" controller?

Thank you.

[tbzep]

Not questioning the accuracy of the information, but to the original question of the difference between the regular launch controller and the "E" launch controller, doesn't the "E" controller also still use only 4 AA batteries? So purely from the standpoint of making the standard controller like the E controller, the longer and thicker wires should be all that's needed, correct? The 12 V thing is a completely separate issue isn't it? Or do I misunderstand something about the "E" controller?

Thank you.

The 12v power source is needed for clusters. If you try to launch a cluster with 4AA batteries, you're almost guaranteed that only one motor will ignite.

The safety code requires longer distance for E and above. While it would be best to have heavier guage wire, the 4 AA batteries would still ignite a single motor with 30 ft leads, but you'd have to use fresh batteries and hold the button down a few extra seconds to get enough heat into the igniter to fire it. I doubt the batteries would last many launches that way.

[clhug]

The 12v power source is needed for clusters. If you try to launch a cluster with 4AA batteries, you're almost guaranteed that only one motor will ignite.

The safety code requires longer distance for E and above. While it would be best to have heavier guage wire, the 4 AA batteries would still ignite a single motor with 30 ft leads, but you'd have to use fresh batteries and hold the button down a few extra seconds to get enough heat into the igniter to fire it. I doubt the batteries would last many launches that way.

I understand the 12v for clusters. What I'm getting at is that the original question at the very top of this thread only asked the difference between the "E" launcher and the regular launcher, it didn't mention anything about clusters or 12 v. So purely from the difference between the E launcher and regular launcher, the longer and heavier wires is the ONLY difference isn't it? The regular "E" launcher still uses only 4 AA batteries, correct?

Any additional mod for 12v is over and above the standard Estes "E" launcher, am I correct?

Thanks again.

[STRMan]

I understand the 12v for clusters. What I'm getting at is that the original question at the very top of this thread only asked the difference between the "E" launcher and the regular launcher, it didn't mention anything about clusters or 12 v. So purely from the difference between the E launcher and regular launcher, the longer and heavier wires is the ONLY difference isn't it? The regular "E" launcher still uses only 4 AA batteries, correct?

Any additional mod for 12v is over and above the standard Estes "E" launcher, am I correct?

Thanks again.

Yes. I posed the original question, and that is the final answer as I understand it. :)

[tbzep]

I understand the 12v for clusters. What I'm getting at is that the original question at the very top of this thread only asked the difference between the "E" launcher and the regular launcher, it didn't mention anything about clusters or 12 v. So purely from the difference between the E launcher and regular launcher, the longer and heavier wires is the ONLY difference isn't it? The regular "E" launcher still uses only 4 AA batteries, correct?

Any additional mod for 12v is over and above the standard Estes "E" launcher, am I correct?

Thanks again.

Yes, the Estes "E" controller just has longer leads and slightly heavier wire. There's absolutely nothing special about it.

[Shreadvector]

Yes, the Estes "E" controller just has longer leads and slightly heavier wire. There's absolutely nothing special about it.

No, the wires are not "slightly heavier". They are "Massively heavier". That is exactly what is special about it.

They will deliver more power to the igniter than the regular controller from the same 4 AA cells. If you use new AA Alkaline cells, you can also ignite up to 2 motor clusters using the Estes or Quest low power igniters.

The 4 AA batteries will last for 50 to 100 regular launches.

Installing a battery bypass is what I do to use this controller with ANY igniter on the market for any Model Rocket Motor or cluster.

[tbzep]

No, the wires are not "slightly heavier". They are "Massively heavier". That is exactly what is special about it.

They aren't jumper cables. They are a little heavier, but there's no way to say that they are massive. Sheesh.


They will deliver more power to the igniter than the regular controller from the same 4 AA cells. If you use new AA Alkaline cells, you can also ignite up to 2 motor clusters using the Estes or Quest low power igniters.

I never said they didn't deliver more power, but....
Shred may be smart, but please folks, don't launch a cluster with 4 AA batteries, regardless of igniter type. There's still a much greater risk of having a single motor ignite with the low current from AA's compared to a decent 12v source.


The 4 AA batteries will last for 50 to 100 regular launches.

100 launches? I've never used one more than 20 or 30 times before it gave out, but that's spread out over several months time. You might get 50 launches out of a set, but 100? They must grow better batteries in California. :rolleyes:


Installing a battery bypass is what I do to use this controller with ANY igniter on the market for any Model Rocket Motor or cluster.

According to your previous statements there is no reason for you to do that. 100 launches from AA's, clusters, lots of power... Sounds to me like yo think it's a great system, but you are using a bypass for all your launches.

[DaveR]

They aren't jumper cables. They are a little heavier, but there's no way to say that they are massive. Sheesh.



I never said they didn't deliver more power, but....
Shred may be smart, but please folks, don't launch a cluster with 4 AA batteries, regardless of igniter type. There's still a much greater risk of having a single motor ignite with the low current from AA's compared to a decent 12v source.



100 launches? I've never used one more than 20 or 30 times before it gave out, but that's spread out over several months time. You might get 50 launches out of a set, but 100? They must grow better batteries in California. :rolleyes:



According to your previous statements there is no reason for you to do that. 100 launches from AA's, clusters, lots of power... Sounds to me like yo think it's a great system, but you are using a bypass for all your launches.

Saw that coming from a mile away. ;)

[Shreadvector]

They aren't jumper cables. They are a little heavier, but there's no way to say that they are massive. Sheesh.

I idd not say the wires were "massive", I said they were "massively heavier", as in way the heck heavier than the normal extremely thin wires in the normal controller. I beleive the E controller used 18 ga wire, which is quite thick and can carry a lot of current with low resistance.


I never said they didn't deliver more power, but....
Shred may be smart, but please folks, don't launch a cluster with 4 AA batteries, regardless of igniter type. There's still a much greater risk of having a single motor ignite with the low current from AA's compared to a decent 12v source.

Estes markets this for use with their 2 motor cluster models per their instructions. I have witnessed it and it does indeed work quite fine for 2 motor clusters using low power Estes igniters.

100 launches? I've never used one more than 20 or 30 times before it gave out, but that's spread out over several months time. You might get 50 launches out of a set, but 100? They must grow better batteries in California. :rolleyes:

I have seen it many times at school launches. You may have "not so new" alkalines. I have indeed seen folks show up at launches with batteries taken from the remote control. Hmmm, that reminds me of the battery scene from the British TV show "Coupling" where the guy cannot operate the remote control for the TV because all the batteries are missing....

According to your previous statements there is no reason for you to do that. 100 launches from AA's, clusters, lots of power... Sounds to me like yo think it's a great system, but you are using a bypass for all your launches.

I use a bypass because I launch Aerotech motors with Copperheads and I launch clusters of 3, 4 and 7 motors. If you have no intention of ever doing so, then do not bother with a bypass.

Oh well, time to drive off to a supplier to do some acceptance testing....

(sorry the quoting is messed up. No time to fix...)