Filling Body Tube Spirals

[BronzeGiant]

I have seen, several times, articles about using filler on the body tube spirals and sanding them smooth.

When I was buildimg rockets in my youth, we never did this and I don't ever remember it being mentioned. Is this something that's really necessary? I rewmember super slick smooth paint jobs that didn't involve this step.

Steve

[stefanj]

Of course it's not "necessary." Especially for sport models.

But if you're going for a really great-looking finish, or building a "space fantasy" kit like an Interceptor, it's something to consider.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

I have seen, several times, articles about using filler on the body tube spirals and sanding them smooth.

When I was buildimg rockets in my youth, we never did this and I don't ever remember it being mentioned. Is this something that's really necessary? I rewmember super slick smooth paint jobs that didn't involve this step.

Steve

Not necessary, just a different school of thought. Some make do with several coats of primer and sanding. I go with a combination of the two. Tonight I filled and sanded the tubes on an Estes Explorer Aquarius that I've been meaning to build and review for a while now. :rolleyes: MAN, is that a lot of tubes to sand!

[LeeR]

As a kid, I didn't fill fins initially. Later, kit instructions mentioned filling (or maybe I just discovered they said to fill them!).

I discovered dope sanding sealer, and balsa fillercoat, and after a few models, got hooked om making a rocket look as nice as possible.

Now, I seem to have less opportunities to do the monthly club launches, and going to the vacant lot down the street is a thing of the past -- at least where I live.

I'm am all about doing the best job I can, and learning new techniques to make each new project better than the last.

But, some folks just want to fly, and getting the greatest finish possible is of little concern. That's cool.

Re: Bill's comments on filling on the Aquarius -- I've got one and am not sure I'll ever start it. I just finished an Outlander, and that was a pain, as well. See below. This one is not stock, has lots of styrene detail added to a rather bland capsule. This thing just screamed "Make me look like a Mars Lander".

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii220/hobbes_pics/Outlander/th_OutlanderD-4.jpg (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii220/hobbes_pics/Outlander/OutlanderD-4.jpg)

[ghrocketman]

I rarely if ever specifically fill spirals other than what 2-3 sanded coats of Kilz-brand primer fills in....it does a decent job but does not hide them totally.
The ONLY time I go to the TROUBLE of using fill-n-finish to totally fill spirals and the associated hassle of all the extra sanding is for one of three things:
1) A highly detailed scale model
or
2) A model I know will be "shown" to the public.
or
3) An altitiude competition rocket

Any other time, I find filling tube-spirals to be a TEDIOUS needless activity that serves litlle if any purpose other than to waste time filling my shop with useless sanding dust.
A whole lotta effort for very little IF ANY improvement in the end result.

Some hobbyists are picky perfectionists; I am FAR from that in that I use the "Good Enough/It'll Doo" approach to my hobbies, which many others would be well served in adopting as well. I approach hobbies with the goal of fun and relaxation, ANYTHING that makes them even remotely work-like I avoid like the plague. Anything in a hobby that could not be described as fun, I try to avoid.

[Royatl]

I have seen, several times, articles about using filler on the body tube spirals and sanding them smooth.

When I was buildimg rockets in my youth, we never did this and I don't ever remember it being mentioned. Is this something that's really necessary? I rewmember super slick smooth paint jobs that didn't involve this step.

Steve

No, it is simply an assist to getting the best possible finish. When I was a kid, I was the only one in my local club that cared at all about getting a smooth finish, probably because I was briefly mentored by adults in a model airplane club -- their planes were usually smooth as glass -- so I always wanted my rockets to look like their planes.

The body spiral is usually my lowest priority item when finishing a rocket. Since it is such a tiny amount of space to fill, using a wood putty/filler *is* a bit overkill. Once they dry, you have to sand it almost completely away, yet it still has to stick to the tube. With most fillers, that sanding is a real chore. Fill'n'Finish makes it much easier to do because it is easily sanded. The other way is to just use a spray can filling primer (Plastikote Spot Filler or Duplicolor Filler Primer). It coats the whole tube, so you just sand most of it off. The display model makers at Estes do this BEFORE anything gets glued to the tube, and then just scrape off the filler from the places that they're going to glue their fins (which are also filled before gluing).

[Mikus]

Tonight I filled and sanded the tubes on an Estes Explorer Aquarius that I've been meaning to build and review for a while now. :rolleyes: MAN, is that a lot of tubes to sand!


Oof, I've got one of those in my build queue - that IS a lot of tubes. How on Earth did you get all of those done in one evening? :)

I figured I'd wait until I started a week of vacation time to begin working that baby. But then I always seem to bog down in the finishing phase - build in 2 days, finish in 2 weeks. :(

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Oof, I've got one of those in my build queue - that IS a lot of tubes. How on Earth did you get all of those done in one evening? :)


It was nice out, so I took the tubes out to the deck and enjoyed the evening.

[LeeR]

Some hobbyists are picky perfectionists; I am FAR from that in that I use the "Good Enough/It'll Doo" approach to my hobbies, which many others would be well served in adopting as well. I approach hobbies with the goal of fun and relaxation, ANYTHING that makes them even remotely work-like I avoid like the plague. Anything in a hobby that could not be described as fun, I try to avoid.

You might be well served in your practice of mediocrity, but it has absolutely nothing to do with me, my obsession with the unattainable goal of perfection, or what I consider fun.

[barone]

You might be well served in your practice of mediocrity, but it has absolutely nothing to do with me, my obsession with the unattainable goal of perfection, or what I consider fun.
lol.... ;)

[chanstevens]

I suspect I'm above average in terms of obsessive-compulsive nature, even amongst members of this forum, but for me I think filling spirals and grains are a necessity, though I respect that for most builders it's going over the top. Some of the main reasons I fill:

1) The designer/kit manufacturer went to a lot of effort to design a beautiful rocket. I owe him/her the effort to build the model well. I'm a big believer in rocketry karma, and doing good things for people always seems to somehow wind up with good things happening to me.

2) I like the look of a clean body line and smooth fins. It makes the model look more like a rocket and less like a colletcion of cheap parts.

3) I enter NARAM craftsmanship events, where stuff like spirals and grains get lousy scores. I consider filling spirals/grains on sport models good practice. Other NARAM competitors spend hundreds of hours on NARAM models and grouse about the pain of the finish. I spend hundreds of hours on a mass of sport models getting my technique down to a relatively efficient process, so I can get NARAM-quality finish for less effort, and I have a whole bunch of nice-looking sport models to show for that investment of time in learning the skills.

4) I build mainly LPR, so we're talking about filling 6-12" of BT-20 or BT-50, not exactly a huge effort. I'm not quite as exacting when building HPR birds.

5) Common argument from the don't fill crowd is "you can't see them from 15 feet away (on the pad)". My argument "So? I still know they're there" or "yeah, but you can sure see them when you load the rocket on that rod".

I would consider this strictly a personal choice based on appearance. Don't buy into the performance aspect--it's negligible at best, as filling adds weight, too. I know, for example, Russ Anthony did an R & D report at NARAM-47 comparing altitude of unpainted models versus spiral-free, lightly painted models, and found no statistical difference. His argument was something along the lines of "if I can see it better, I'm more likely to recover it and/or close an altitude track, so paint must not be as evil/anti-altitude as we'd previously believed".

--Chan Stevens

[STRMan]

FWIW, I have never felt the need to fill spirals on any tubes I've bought from Semroc. While I can see the spiral, it is so smooth that a coat of primer and a coat or two of paint always cover them up completely.

[tbzep]

I usually just prime and sand a couple of times and let it go. Occasionally, I'll build a model that I want to look really slick, and I'll make sure all the spirals are filled. As an example, I made sure there were no spirals in the vintage Interceptor I built recently. It will remain a hangar queen. I have the re-release in a bag. When I get around to it, I will build it to fly and I won't go to extremes to fill the spirals beyond whatever a few prime/sand cycles will do.

[ghrocketman]

Pursuit of perfection in any form/hobby/vehicle/activity/product I see as being HIGHLY over-rated and is the bane of today's society. That is one of the main reasons why most everyone is overworked and underpaid; everybody expects the best in everything and in the marketplace they expect to pay peanuts for it.
I deal with this sort of thing in my career everyday of my life and in no way will I support this type of attitude outside of my career.

Mediocrity (average, or NORMAL) is highly UNDER-rated and should be the accepted "norm" for everything and anything more should be considered "stellar" or should be worth MUCH more when making a purchase.

People nowadays expect WAY too much for giving too little and they often let this "overachiever" attitude carry into virtually everything.

I'll get off my soapbox now....

[Mark II]

So, getting back to Steve's original question, there appears to be a whole range of opinions on this subject, ranging from ghrocketman's views to those of Chan S., and plenty of opinions in-between. The bottom line is that all of these views are valid. Your rocket is your rocket, not anyone else's, so you can build it and finish it any way you like. Your hobby experience is yours alone, and only you can decide what exactly you want to get out of it, and you are also free to adjust your goals any time it suits you. Once again, you are not building someone else's rocket - you are building yours. And you are not creating someone else's hobby experience for them - you are creating your own.

As for my own finishing preferences, they are very similar to the preferences described in one or more of the previous posts in this thread. ;)

Mark

[DM1975]

I am obsesive compulsive about my builds. That is why I dont do scale plastic models anymore. I never could finish one. Or at least one to my likeing at least. I would obsess over details. At least with rockets I just obsess over a smooth, even finish that will fly. For me filling spirals is sort of a form of therapy I guess you can say.

[scigs30]

Fill or not to fill is a personal choice, the important point is complete the rocket. As in any hobby it is easy to get caught up in "perfection" all this leads to is incomplete projects. My inspiration not to fill was based on looking at Leo's website and his rockets. He posts high quality pictures so you can see some spirals in his builds. But because he has wonderful craftsmanship his rockets come our nice. http://www.leo.nutz.de/Rockets.php?Rockets=Estes%20Industries