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CPMcGraw
04-19-2008, 08:19 AM
Check out this report (http://www.krqe.com/global/story.asp?s=8173339)of a "new" spacecraft being tested in New Mexico...

It's being developed by Lockheed-Martin, and the vehicle in the article is 20% full-size.

Tell me they haven't been ordering from SEMROC lately...

(Just noticed Shawn Switenky beat me to it... :D )

tbzep
04-19-2008, 08:50 AM
Check out this report (http://www.krqe.com/global/story.asp?s=8173339)of a "new" spacecraft being tested in New Mexico...

It's being developed by Lockheed-Martin, and the vehicle in the article is 20% full-size.

Tell me they haven't been ordering from SEMROC lately...

(Just noticed Shawn Switenky beat me to it... :D )

I wonder which motor they used... It's flame looked like White Lightning, but it was low smoke like a Blue Thunder. Considering the model was only about 8 ft. long, I'm sure a commercial motor of some type was used. Does Rossington still have his ISP commercial/military motor line?

snaquin
04-19-2008, 10:50 AM
That was an awesome video clip, thanks for posting Craig! Watched it several times.

Some of the Cesaroni motors I've seen have a bright flame with very low smoke, especially the moonburners.

Yeah, somebody at Lockheed-Martin must have been sneaking a look at Casey-6 .....

.

tbzep
04-19-2008, 11:37 AM
That was an awesome video clip, thanks for posting Craig! Watched it several times.

Some of the Cesaroni motors I've seen have a bright flame with very low smoke, especially the moonburners.

Yeah, somebody at Lockheed-Martin must have been sneaking a look at Casey-6 .....

.

Who knows....somebody at Lockheed might be an EX guy. :D Jim (DPS) made several low smoke varieties years ago that we occasionally tested.

Judging by the size of the "orbiter" and the duration of the burn, I'd bet it was a commercial hobby motor (or one of Gary Rosenfield's ISP varieties). I seriously doubt they would have gone to Thiakol or any of the other "big guys" for it.

I just realized I made a typo in my first post. Instead of Gary Rosenfield, I typed in Rossington....as in Gary Rossington, one of Lynyrd Skynyrd's original lead guitarists. :D

shockwaveriderz
04-19-2008, 12:46 PM
I think the reason that the LM design looks so close to the Centuri Space Shuttle is that back in the day, the Centuri space shuttle was taken from actual design ideas. Aerodynamics don't chnage with time; they just become better understood so maybe the dusted off an old design for this test?



terry dean
nar 16158

CPMcGraw
04-19-2008, 01:56 PM
I think the reason that the LM design looks so close to the Centuri Space Shuttle is that back in the day, the Centuri space shuttle was taken from actual design ideas. Aerodynamics don't chnage with time; they just become better understood so maybe the dusted off an old design for this test?



terry dean
nar 16158

That's what I was thinking of. The Centuri design came from "NASA Drawings", which mean they came from engineering 'think tank' ideas that were eventually realized in the STS we have today. Same as the SST:Shuttle and Estes' OT were concept ideas.

My curiosity is, Who originated the design that Centuri turned into the KC-6? Could it have been either Lockheed, or Martin (before the merger)?

They might simply be 'blowing the dust off' their own idea...

tbzep
04-19-2008, 04:47 PM
That's what I was thinking of. The Centuri design came from "NASA Drawings", which mean they came from engineering 'think tank' ideas that were eventually realized in the STS we have today. Same as the SST:Shuttle and Estes' OT were concept ideas.

My curiosity is, Who originated the design that Centuri turned into the KC-6? Could it have been either Lockheed, or Martin (before the merger)?

They might simply be 'blowing the dust off' their own idea...

Lockheed was a big proponent of delta wings and lifting bodies in their proposals.

http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/s/starclip.jpg

A big part of the Centuri concept came from Max Faget, especially the orbiter and the forward positioning of it on the mothership. However, the baseline mothership looks more like the Centuri version. Whoever it was at Centuri, I think they took what they thought was cool, and achievable without too much efffort and put it all together for the KC-6.

Max Faget design:
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4221/p208.jpg

Other designs:
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4219/4219-283.jpg

shockwaveriderz
04-19-2008, 05:57 PM
Lockheed was a big proponent of delta wings and lifting bodies in their proposals.

http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/s/starclip.jpg

A big part of the Centuri concept came from Max Faget, especially the orbiter and the forward positioning of it on the mothership. However, the baseline mothership looks more like the Centuri version. Whoever it was at Centuri, I think they took what they thought was cool, and achievable without too much efffort and put it all together for the KC-6.

Max Faget design:
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4221/p208.jpg

Other designs:
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4219/4219-283.jpg

thanks for that Tbzep. I thought I had recently seen a Centuri document that went into the various centuri shuttle designs. ?? that ring a bell ? my memory is going..... Didn't Larry Brown do this design for Centuri?


EDIT

here's the original patent:

http://www.google.com/patents/pdf/SPACE_SHUTTLE_VEHICLE_AND_SYSTEM.pdf?id=q145AAAAEBAJ&output=pdf&sig=M8ujcZOcutr-_xdtFRjoKBFt6mY

When this model first came out, upon first glance, I just natutally assumed the motor was in the sustainer, not the orbiter. Imagine my surprise as a 15-16 yr old when I discovered the orbiter was also actually a gliding pop-pod . Then and now I think this is one of the most unique model rocket glider designs ever. It's still the only rocket glider model that I am aware of, in which the pop pod glided back to earth.

very unqiue indeed!

terry dean
nar 16158