Estes Hercules (1377) question

[Randino]

I've been looking at many model rockets, and the Hercules looks like its about right, but a bit under powered for my tastes. I'd like to make a clone of it from scratch, but is it feasible to put D-12 sized motor in both stages? If so, what modifications to the original design plans would you suggest? Thanks for your help,

Randy

[CPMcGraw]

I've been looking at many model rockets, and the Hercules looks like its about right, but a bit under powered for my tastes. I'd like to make a clone of it from scratch, but is it feasible to put D-12 sized motor in both stages? If so, what modifications to the original design plans would you suggest? Thanks for your help,

Randy

A D12-0 booster might be feasable. The model was designed for 18mm power, and as we've discussed here many times (ad nauseum), the current crop of 18mm boosters just doesn't cut the cheese. They just don't have the "oomph" to get a model like this off the rod quickly.

I'd stick with 18mm sustainers, however: B6-6 and C6-7. Hercules was not really designed for high-altitude tracking, and once you get past about 1200', the model is BVR. All you will see is the smoke contrail well behind the model. It's not much larger than an Alpha (more like a Quasar) once the booster drops off, and you know how those can disappear on a C6...

Build the sustainer stock. The D12-0 will have a great kick off the pad, but really is overkill. The plans call out B6-0 and C6-0 boosters (the C5-0 and B14-0 were long-since OOP when this kit was released in 1982), but the design is similar in size and profile to the older K-16 Delta. Those plans insisted on the B14-0 (a core-burning motor) as a booster.

[barone]

I've been looking at many model rockets, and the Hercules looks like its about right, but a bit under powered for my tastes. I'd like to make a clone of it from scratch, but is it feasible to put D-12 sized motor in both stages? If so, what modifications to the original design plans would you suggest? Thanks for your help,

Randy
What he said.....As for modifications.....assuming only the booster is going to be configured for the 24mm, don't install the motor mount in the booster. The booster is 24mm and the D12 can be friction fitted. Build the sustainer stock and then check the fit of the booster before installing the stage coupler in the booster (D12 plus coupler)

[Mikus]

I've been looking at many model rockets, and the Hercules looks like its about right, but a bit under powered for my tastes. I'd like to make a clone of it from scratch, but is it feasible to put D-12 sized motor in both stages? If so, what modifications to the original design plans would you suggest? Thanks for your help,

Randy

My stock Hercules launches like a bat out of Hell - I don't like running C's in it because everybody loses track of it. The last time I launched it we only recovered it because it happened to drift back near the pad while we were all still looking for it in the air. :o

If you put D's in it, don't use their paint scheme. It'll be too hard to see.

[ghrocketman]

You will NEVER get this back on even a "D" in the booster to an "A" in the sustainer unless you fly in a huge 500 ACRE tree-less sod-farm field and use a long streamer for recovery.
This thing flies to over 2500' on just a C6-0 to a C6-7 which is about 1500 higher than you can track it without binoculars. It would go to probably 2800' on a D-to-A combo, D-to-C would probably hit 3500' and D-to-D would probably hit 4000' easy.
Normally NOBODY recovers and Estes Hercules on a C-to-C combo because it is next to impossible to track.

[Doug Sams]

I've been looking at many model rockets, and the Hercules looks like its about right, but a bit under powered for my tastes. I'd like to make a clone of it from scratch, but is it feasible to put D-12 sized motor in both stages? If so, what modifications to the original design plans would you suggest? I pretty much agree with the others. I hardly fly without staging. BP stagers are probably 50% of my flights. A Hercules with a D12 booster is essentially a minimum diameter flight and will be close to out-of-sight at staging. The upper stage will probably be a write-off.

That said, it's doable. But you need a big field - an HPR field. I flew my Comanche on a D-C-C stack at LDRS a couple years ago. A Hercules on a D-D or D-C will be comparable. The differences are that the Herc will stage even higher, but probably won't have the overall altitude.

You'll need about 12 sets of eyes to help track it - that is, about 3 to get the booster, and hopefully one of the remaining 9 has eyes good enough to track the sustainer :)

BTW, I have a Herc in my unbuilt pile.

Doug


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[Green Dragon]

This could be done 2 stage D12, just leave the motor mounts out, and install an engine block in the sustainer with the engine sticking out about 1/2" .. then just tape the motors otgether and go .

Have to agree it would never come back though ,..

Lost a Commanche on all D12's, and another on D12, E10, D12.... so it can be domnne, if you;re in the desert and have eagle eyes.

Have fun .


~ AL

[Randino]

Its all very helpful :)

So from your experiences, how do these compare: a CC Express on a D-12-0 booster and a D-12-7 sustainer, or a Herc on a C6-0 booster and C6-7 sustainer?

If the Herc can keep up, it would be a good deal cheaper for me to fly it than my current CC Express. Thoughts?

[Doug Sams]

Its all very helpful :)

So from your experiences, how do these compare: a CC Express on a D-12-0 booster and a D-12-7 sustainer, or a Herc on a C6-0 booster and C6-7 sustainer?

If the Herc can keep up, it would be a good deal cheaper for me to fly it than my current CC Express. Thoughts?Comparing the cross-sectional areas of the two rockets, the CC Express is ~1.8x that of the Herc. For a first order approximation, we can use that as the relative drag ratios. Thus, the D-powered CCE will have about twice the impulse, and not quite twice the drag, of the Herc. I'd say the race goes to the Herc.

As for economics of flying one versus the other, yes the Herc will be cheaper. It's more a matter of fullfilling your desire for variety - that is, flying different birds on different motor combos. While it may be more expensive to fly the CCE (on D's), it's still something you could do occasionally, as something different, while flying the Herc on a more regular basis.

For example, most of us here have a @#$%-load of rockets, but some get flown more than others, for a variety of reasons, and cost/flight is one of them.

My point is, do both. Build a Herc and a CC Express, but fly the Herc more often. Also, keep in mind, the CC Express is light enough - if not overbuilt - to fly on C6 motors. You can use spent D motors as adapters.

Doug

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