Hello from an old spacemodeling snob

[carbons4]

I just discovered this great website and more than happy to contribute. I started flying rockets in 1971 and was one of the founding members of the SSKC ,spacemodeling society of kansas city. The location of Naram-19. I also worked full and part time at Flight systems inc. from 1977 to 1986. I know I have seen several people ask questions about the history of FSI and I might be able to plug it in for them. I know that some peoples memorys get a bit fuzzy on subjects from back then. I saw a post where Doug Pratt had listed Dallas as the location of Naram-19 and that was the first place he saw Star wars. I know Doug remembers he was the CD of Naram-19 at Johnson county community college in Overland park, Ks. He had the other mixed up with the Dallas area rocket society meet in june of that yr. There were 4 or 5 of us that went to a 2am showing of Star wars at the Garland Cinema 2 because we had a guest speaker from LTV aerospace do a talk on the scout that did not finish till after midnight.

[tbzep]

Welcome to YORF. What did you do at FSI?

[carbons4]

EVERYTHING! FSI was a small company and I was one of the few family outsiders that worked there. I was hired as a machinist and made about every part for rockets , pads, and launch equipment. I made motors later when we started producing our own motors. (When Lonnie and Larry bought the company from George Roos ,he kept making the motors in Burns Flat, OK. but his schedule was not very timely for a buisness. ) When I last worked there ,I was also working on couple new kits and redoing the catalog. That was first part of 1986.

[carbons4]

I have to say I did not get rich working there but I will probably never work for better people than the Reeses. My father had worked with Harold many many many yrs ago and my brother had gone to high school with the Reese brothers. These were great down to earth people. I still miss Lonnie and Harold.

[dwmzmm]

I have to say I did not get rich working there but I will probably never work for better people than the Reeses. My father had worked with Harold many many many yrs ago and my brother had gone to high school with the Reese brothers. These were great down to earth people. I still miss Lonnie and Harold.

I love some of the FSI kits. Still have a few in my active status fleet today.....

Below are pics of the original 1/8 scale Black Brant - II (only the upper portion is from
SEMROC, replacement from a near disastrous flight several years ago), OSO (also repaired
from a fiery F7-6 cato 1 1/2 years ago, but still with original FSI parts), and the Maverick.

[Royatl]

EVERYTHING! FSI was a small company and I was one of the few family outsiders that worked there. I was hired as a machinist and made about every part for rockets , pads, and launch equipment. I made motors later when we started producing our own motors. (When Lonnie and Larry bought the company from George Roos ,he kept making the motors in Burns Flat, OK. but his schedule was not very timely for a buisness. )


Now *there's* a tidbit I bet none of us knew!


When I last worked there ,I was also working on couple new kits and redoing the catalog. That was first part of 1986.

So I guess you weren't there when they acquired the old MRI/MPC machines for making 18mm motors?

[tbzep]

Do you have any old photos of FSI?

[dwmzmm]

Do you have any old photos of FSI?

Or, maybe you could be a feature interview of a future issue of LAUNCH.....

[snaquin]

EVERYTHING! FSI was a small company and I was one of the few family outsiders that worked there. I was hired as a machinist and made about every part for rockets , pads, and launch equipment. I made motors later when we started producing our own motors. (When Lonnie and Larry bought the company from George Roos ,he kept making the motors in Burns Flat, OK. but his schedule was not very timely for a buisness. ) When I last worked there ,I was also working on couple new kits and redoing the catalog. That was first part of 1986.

Did the new kits you were working on at that time make it into production or were they prototypes?

Welcome to the forum and thanks so much for sharing your thoughts with us!

I never met Lonnie in person but back in the early 80's I called him several times with the phone number in the front of the catalog. He was always very kind and you could tell he enjoyed talking rockets with customers. He told me about a Nova kit he had converted to fly on F100's that he flew to some pretty respectable altitudes.

I was lucky to have a local hobby store {Model Car Raceways} that stocked the full line of FSI products - kits and motors.

.

[shockwaveriderz]

Now *there's* a tidbit I bet none of us knew!
(When Lonnie and Larry bought the company from George Roos ,he kept making the motors in Burns Flat, OK. but his schedule was not very timely for a buisness. )


So I guess you weren't there when they acquired the old MRI/MPC machines for making 18mm motors?


I sorta knew it.

EDIT

well maybe I didn't know it. I could have sworn that I had read or heard that George Roos made motors Burns Flat,Ok; but I can't seemt o fidn my reference for it.



also FSI actually got the remains of 2 "partial" MRI/MPC/AVI motor making machines . At some later point in time Bill Stine was looking for FSI to supply his new Quest Aerospace with motors. FSI had never really gooten these 2 partial machines to work until Bill Stine got hold of the techncial plans for these motor making machines from Myke Bergenske; FSi was then able to make their own FSI branded 18mm motors for a while along with some initial Quest Aerospace motors.

Later as we all know this former MRI/MPC/AVI/FSI "Mabel" because the initial basis for Quest Aerospace motor making.




terry dean

[Gus]

Wow,

The new guy comes on board and immediately hits one out of the park with the best thread title of the year and some really great historical info.

Carbons4, really nice to have you here. :)

[Leo]

Indeed!

Welcome to the club.

FSI also sold kits and engines in Germany.

I don't think I have any FSI kits but I believe I have one of those E or F engines lying around somewhere :)

An article of the Company in Launch Mag. would be great.

[Shreadvector]

NARAM 19 was great. FSI and the Reeses were always fantastic and attended all or most of the NARAMs back then (I went to 16, 17, 18, 19). I did a lot of mail ordering of FSI products.

[Rocketflyer]

Indeed!

Welcome to the club. [snip]

An article of the Company in Launch Mag. would be great.


I'll go along with that. Yes, an indepth interview would be great.

Welcome aboard, Carbons4 :D

[carbons4]

When we first started making motors Larry had gone down to Georges place in Ok. severial times. Partialy to help with orders that we were way behind on. Like i said earlier, George was a smart guy but a bit cantankerous. He had his own schedule and it was not conducive to good customer relations for people needing their motors. Larry was learning as much as posiple and all of us were going down to Linda Hall libruary at UMKC learning as much as we could. Lonnie and Larry had to brush up on their Russian because at the time a lot of the technical books there on solid propellent were in russian. All the first production machines for 21 and 27 mm engines were manual hydrolic presses. We could put about six dies in back to back and run them thru manualy. The first 18mm motors flight systems produced were the Pulseators which had two distinct spikes and a sustainer phase. These motors never really went into production but I do have a couple prototypes in my collection. For a while ,I helped Larry with a rotary table he had bought from Franks Metals in KC that was originally a automated vacuum tube maker he was going to convert. By this time I was just working part time there and cant give you all the details. I was wanting to say the first 18mm machine was actually from a fireworks company they had got. Last i worked there was spring of 1986 and I was working on updating the catalog. There was a couple of sport models I had designed that Harold decided to bring out as new kits as well as Lonnie and larry earlier had built a WASP and a LTV scout to go along with the Black Brant II. The guys earlier had built a half scale ARCAS i wish they would have put into production.

[dwmzmm]

Hey carbons4, in reading your posts about the inside story of FSI, I'd wouldn't be surprised
if Mark (of LAUNCH) came knocking on your door soon for a feature interview..... :D

[carbons4]

A name i need to mention that I have not seen listed yet is Brian Reese. As I said Flight Systems was very much a "family affiair". Brian was Lonnie and Larry s nephew and worked there also. When Lonnie died Brian had to step up and helped Harold quite a bit. Like i said before these were great people to work for and Lonnie was a nice guy almost to a fault. Anyone that knew them personally knows what I mean. I saw at the Naram-50 there were having a old rocket guys reunion. I wont be able to make it but if some of you do raise a toast to Lonnie and Harold and all of the guys we miss from a fun hobby.

[carbons4]

I remember putting that order togther going to Germany Leo. We had sold individual orders around the world before that but that was one of the first major orders to go overseas. The mans name escapes me that was the importer/ distributer. I would remember it if i heard it. Lonnie and company were quite proud when that order first shipped. i remember putting in a few late nights getting that order ready to go.

[Leo]

His name is Wolfgang Carstens.

He is sadly no longer in business.

[carbons4]

YES! thats it! Thanks for joging my memory.

[carbons4]

Yea we were all pretty proud we had become a "global manufacturer".

[shockwaveriderz]

What I find interseting about Birns Flat,Ok is that back then it was the Clinton-Sherman Air Force Base which was closed in 1969. George Ros seemed to have a very good habit of locating his motor making failities on ex-military properties which makes perfectly good sense to me.

Today this Clinton-Sherman Air Force Base as the Clinton-Sherman Industrial Airpark, also known as the Oklahoma Spaceport.


As early as August 1969 George Roos was already trying to sell FSI, this after being in business only 2-3 years. Evidently sometime in the early 1970's , say 72-74, he sold the company to the Reese Brothers. FSI of course was originally located in Louisville Colorado, so I'm not sure how or why the FSI motor making plant got moved from Colorado to Burn Flat,OK. Also its evident that for a while George Roos continued to make motors for FSI after he sold the company to the Reese Brothers. Later it appears the FSI motor making facilities were located at the old NIKE base Raytown Missouri site.

I had always suspected that the FSI motors were manually made with hydraulic gang presses. It makes perfect sense, as thats the way the original Coasters,mini-Maxes etc were made. The downside of using such an arrangement is that its can eb very difficult to get the same pressure on each motor being made. This explains why F100 or F7's from exactly the same batch could be cato-rrific while others from the same batch were perfectly good.

Lee Piester found thsi out in his manufacturing of his min-max Bp motors, as related in a RMR post from maybe 5 years ago by Mark Johnson, where he related a similar story.

terry dean

[shockwaveriderz]

carbons4:

Did you have any "personal" conversations with the Reese Brothers during the time you worked at FSI? By personal, I mean, did they every discuss with you what they di prior to owning FSI? What were their backgriounds, in terms of education, work, military service,etc?
where they married? had any children? What were their approx. ages during the 77-86 time frame? any ideas on this?

terry dean

[carbons4]

I wanted to thank Gus for the complement. Like I said I was one of the founding members of the Spacemodeling Society of Kansas City. Doug Pratt lived here at the time and convinced us that we could put on a NARAM here. Sure sounds easy. NOT! Not going to go into that but we kinda bit off more than we could chew but hey hide sight is 20/20. The SSKC kind of fell apart within a yr after hosting the NARAM. A few of us hard core people formed our own "splinter cell" called the association of spacemodeling snobs. A.S.S. I must say with all fairness that I am glad today looking back that Doug convinced us that we WERE ready to host a NARAM. Maybe its from a selfish standpoint but I met a lot of good people there and will have those memorys for a lifetime.

[carbons4]

I knew the Reeses real well. Like I said my father had worked with Harold yrs before. My brother had graduated with Jerry, the youngest brother and Brians dad. I had known them personally for yrs. Lonnie and Larry used to race outboard hydroplanes and runabouts. I used to go to the races with them and help out pit crew. Lonnie and Larry were both quite smart and were not afraid to try new things. You could write a book about these guys and it would make the best sellers list. Few people know this but Lonnie played guitar and sang. He was on his way back from blue springs , i think he was performing at a amature night if memory serves me correctly when he had his accident. Yea I knew these guys.

[carbons4]

First of all George wanted to keep the motor buisness. He was just tired of the hobby side. Thats what Lonnie and Larry bought. I never went to Burns flat but I know we made improvements on our motors from Georges. Pressure was monitered via hydrolic pressure as well as load cells on the blocks . A lot of the problem was George did not replace spindles nearly enough and mix and grain size varied. A black powder propelant as well as the fireclay used for the nozel are both abrasive. The steel spindles used to form the core /throat would erode and get smaller. There are quite a few variables to making a black powder motor. Temp and humidity on componets and during assy. can lead to variances too. Lonnie and Larry could not get motors or had bad ones when we recieved them. Thats when took the reigns to build their own motors.

[Leo]

Well, I finally found what I was looking for. I got to much stuff lying around :)

http://www.leo.nutz.de/images/rockets/forums/FSI_Rocket_Motor_E5-6.jpg

It's an E5-6 dated June 1982

You by any chance pack the baby 'Insert Carbons4's real name here' ? :D

[carbons4]

That is kinda in the break over period. Didnt start producing motors in missouri till after they moved to Lone Jack. 82 is probably a Larry Reese made in OK motor. I know that that was one of the first things Larry did was replace spindles down there. They were all worn bad. Its a colored stamp and looks like a new one. If you notice all older FSI engines are black ink and old style stamp.

[Leo]

Nice :)

I won't be using this one :)

[carbons4]

Few people know it but FSI had a big fire in summer of 1980. Wont go in to the details but a guy working nights , NOT ME, got a hot tool into the propellant of a Mach 1 thruster and it went off. Had a pretty serious fire and Lonnie and Larry were really wondering if they were going to call it quits. I helped clean up for the rest of the summer and went to work at another job. In this time is when they decided to press on and moved production to Lone Jack, Mo. Shipping was always out of Raytown. After basicly the family moved the equipment to Lone Jack is when I started working again for them. Leo that motor you have is probably ok but i would worry more about the age as if the grain has been cracked over 26 yrs.

[carbons4]

Couple things i wanted to say. The Nike missle base was in Lone Jack not Raytown. Shipping was always done from Raytown. Production moved out there after the fire. And talking about manual vs rotary presses, I personaly would rather have a good operator and a manual press vs a automated rotary press at that time. First I have built enough rotary tables for many aplications and usually they are started and forgot about till they brake. With a rotary you have several stations that can all vary to start with. Back then you did not have the data aq. that you have on todays automated machines. The fewer variables you put into the mix the better. There are as many reasons that a motor can cato as excuses at a meet. I personaly can say the only 2 motors I ever had 100% suceses rate were the F32-10 Thunderbolt and a enerjet F52. And I would guess that part of that is i only ever flew 2 or 3 of each. Did I have F100s and E60s blow up my models? Yup. But I can honestly say that after we started making our own , I never had one personaly blow on me. Did they still ? Yea I still heard a few people complain. Nobody really makes big black powder any more. I remember one time Lonnie told me either Gary Rosenfield or Scott Dixon thought we were crazy for playing with those black powder motors. But I do remember seeing one of those guys walk into the Holiday Inn at PitCon in 77 with a 2" motor with a electric squib stuck in the tailpipe. We thought they were crazy. Everything is relative.

[shockwaveriderz]

Hey Carbons4, I did a Google earth of the Raytown address and it appears to be in a residential area. Can I assume the actual plant was located someplace else in Raytown? Ahh so the NIKE base was outside Lone Jack MO . Do you have a address for that Lone Jack Mo nike site that may be viewable from google earth?




Also thanks for all of this historical info on FSI. Its really appreciated by all.
terry dean

[stefanj]

I went to the Lone Jack site on the way back from LDRS in 1990.

It was way, way, way south, past farm country. I remember a "KK Highway" and a long gravel road. The Nike site had quite a few trees. I don't remember any bunkers or anything, just a low tan building.

Harold was there, plus a twenty-something young lady, and a thirty-something guy with a moustache and beard. (Talked with him on the phone, but not in person; just saw him as we were leaving.)

[shockwaveriderz]

I went to the Lone Jack site on the way back from LDRS in 1990.

It was way, way, way south, past farm country. I remember a "KK Highway" and a long gravel road. The Nike site had quite a few trees. I don't remember any bunkers or anything, just a low tan building.

Harold was there, plus a twenty-something young lady, and a thirty-something guy with a moustache and beard. (Talked with him on the phone, but not in person; just saw him as we were leaving.)


I found both the nike launch site and the nike IFC site just to the south of Lone Jack

http://ed-thelen.org/loc-m.html#KC-30

terry dean

[shockwaveriderz]

I'm not sure there will ever be a LAUNCH mag article on FSI as all of the principles are deceased, but I am attaching a copy of the 1st FSI ad that I am aware of from the 9/10 1966 issue of American Modeler magazine.

also what follows is what G. Harry Stine had to say about FSI in the 2/67 AM :

Industry News: A new model rocket manufacturer, Flight Systems, Inc. (P.O. Box 145, Louisville, Colo. 80027). is a subsidiary of Pyrochem Co., a firm that has been making defense ordnance items and small rocket systems for weather modification, cloud seeding, atmospheric sampling, and high altitude signaling.

FSI is under the direction of George E. Roos, a professional rocket man and chemical engineer whose experience includes manager of propellant development for the USAF Minuteman with Thiokol Chemical Co. in Ogden, Utah.

Their line of high performance engines ranges from Type B through Type D, utilizing a paper casting 21 milli-meters in diameter and 70 mm. long (0.832" x 2.75").

I have flown some of their engines, and I would like to warn you that they have very high performance. They are not for beginners, and they are not for use in small flying areas.

The engines will be very good for flying payloads because of their high thrust (ranging from 3.5 lbs to 7.25 lbs).

I have not tried their kits yet. The engines are presently undergoing qualification tests for NAR certfication.

The FSI engines were demostrated at NARAM-9 held at Mankato,Minn in August 1967. George Roos launched an OSO with a F100-F7 combination. Again thus sayeth G. Harry stine in his description:

"The most spectacular flight of the demonstration was pulled off by George Roos of Flight Systems who launched his OSO kit model with a FSI type F18-0 booster (later to become the F100) and a FSI type F1.3-18 sustainer (later an F7) - a short-duration high-thrust booster coupled to a stop-stage sustainer that burns for 10 seconds; the bird went out of sight with the top stage still under thrust, the trackers locked up at 90-degrees elevation, and the bird must have hit over 8,000 feet. These large engines are very powerful, very expensive, and meant only for the advanced model rocketeer who has plenty of room to fly in, but they are needed be-cause they provide the means to do the
kind of advanced work the older model rocketeers want to do."

The (text in parenthese) above are mine.


terry dean

[snaquin]

The FSI engines were demostrated at NARAM-9 held at Mankato,Minn in August 1967. George Roos launched an OSO with a F100-F7 combination. Again thus sayeth G. Harry stine in his description:

"The most spectacular flight of the demonstration was pulled off by George Roos of Flight Systems who launched his OSO kit model with a FSI type F18-0 booster (later to become the F100) and a FSI type F1.3-18 sustainer (later an F7) - a short-duration high-thrust booster coupled to a stop-stage sustainer that burns for 10 seconds; the bird went out of sight with the top stage still under thrust, the trackers locked up at 90-degrees elevation, and the bird must have hit over 8,000 feet. These large engines are very powerful, very expensive, and meant only for the advanced model rocketeer who has plenty of room to fly in, but they are needed be-cause they provide the means to do the
kind of advanced work the older model rocketeers want to do."

The (text in parenthese) above are mine.


terry dean

Two staged Flight Systems OSO ..... I'd like to see a picture of that one!

Did anyone on the forum here attend NARAM-9 to witness the referenced flight? I wonder if the booster stage was just an OSO kit without a payload section with another OSO kit for the sustainer .....

.

[dwmzmm]

Two staged Flight Systems OSO ..... I'd like to see a picture of that one!

Did anyone on the forum here attend NARAM-9 to witness the referenced flight? I wonder if the booster stage was just an OSO kit without a payload section with another OSO kit for the sustainer .....

.

Wow, 8,000 feet altitude?! I would have love to have seen that!!

[snaquin]

Just for kicks I used the dimensions from the 1967 catalog for the FSI OSO kit and added a booster stage based with the same fins. Looks like it would be a pretty cool rocket with an F100/F7 and it's also stable with engine mounts for Estes D12/E9 flights .....

I've already built an OSO rocket based on the 1967 catalog dimensions using Semroc LT-125 SLS grade tubing with a Sandman custom hardwood nose cone. It will be flown by proxy at NARAM 50 by member Rocketflyer on an F26-9J for it's first flight.

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/fsi67/67fsi16.html

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=20141&postcount=148


******************

Question for carbons4:

During your employment with Flight Systems Inc from 1977 to 1986 did you have access to any of the early FSI rocket models or prototypes produced by George Roos? Fins for the OSO and Voyager appear different in the 1967 catalog than in the 1970 and later catalogs. I was curious to know if the designs were slightly changed in later years from what's shown in the 1967 catalog line drawings.

.

[Royatl]

Two staged Flight Systems OSO ..... I'd like to see a picture of that one!

Did anyone on the forum here attend NARAM-9 to witness the referenced flight? I wonder if the booster stage was just an OSO kit without a payload section with another OSO kit for the sustainer .....

.

I don't know about that flight, but the MASER section did an air show demo in 1971 where, among other pretty exciting flights, John Langford decided to do a F100-F7 combo. The upper stage was shorter than an OSO,and had fins that were ASP-like (very low aspect ratio) and had thick fillets, to the point that they probably reduced the stabilising efficiency.
The rocket flew well until the second stage separation, where it went completly unstable, skywriting for a couple of seconds until it slowed down beyond the capability of the F7 to keep it going, and it just fell to the ground and burned itself out. We had a couple of other "exciting" flights that day, including John's Cineroc that took a dive due to a D13 cato.
But they boosted the attendance at our booth, where people wanted to see the remains of both the F-F rocket and the Cineroc!

[snaquin]

I don't know about that flight, but the MASER section did an air show demo in 1971 where, among other pretty exciting flights, John Langford decided to do a F100-F7 combo. The upper stage was shorter than an OSO,and had fins that were ASP-like (very low aspect ratio) and had thick fillets, to the point that they probably reduced the stabilising efficiency.
The rocket flew well until the second stage separation, where it went completly unstable, skywriting for a couple of seconds until it slowed down beyond the capability of the F7 to keep it going, and it just fell to the ground and burned itself out. We had a couple of other "exciting" flights that day, including John's Cineroc that took a dive due to a D13 cato.
But they boosted the attendance at our booth, where people wanted to see the remains of both the F-F rocket and the Cineroc!

It's shame that second stage went unstable. It sounds like it would have really punched a hole in the sky! On a calm day it would be really tough not to get at least a mile to 6,000 feet out of that combo, especially with a really streamlined second stage as you described. I'm sure John was a lot more bummed about the Cineroc though.

I loved those long burn F7's in the OSO and Voyager rockets. Every time someone brings up FSI I get excited and remember the fun I had with my arsenal of FSI motors and rockets .....

:)

[carbons4]

The address listed on the catalog for Flight systems is a residential area. The production operations were very close by. There are two Nike missle bases in the Lone jack area that were decomissioned in the late 60's. The base we were located at was owened by a local rancher. The winery at lone Jack used one of the silos to keep his stock in. Flight systems had most of the above ground buildings for engine production, machine shop, storage, offices, packaging, and testing. I do have some early George Roos stuff. I have a model of a cloud seeding rocket that used several original parts, a few motors, early motor box packaging with Louisville,Co. address. Misc stuff.

[carbons4]

It used to be at the end of county maintance on KK, the road turned from chip and seal to gravel right after the driveway. If you look at a aerial view, what looks like a huge parking lot is the 3 silos. To the side of it is a building with a huge burm around it was the warhead assy. building. This is where motor production was. As you come up the driveway just before you get to the burms is the power substation and generator building. This was the machine shop. The first building you come to as you enter the complex of of KK was originaly crew qts. This was the main offices. You have to remember , this was not Estes. It was not backed by a corperation. It was family buisness of a bunch of really good people that did it out of the love of the hobby more than anything.

[carbons4]

Steve As long as I worked there the only change made on the oso that i can remember was it was the first of the old kits to get new packageing. Before 1977 im not sure. Might get ahold of Doug Pratt, he might remember.

[snaquin]

Steve As long as I worked there the only change made on the oso that i can remember was it was the first of the old kits to get new packageing. Before 1977 im not sure. Might get ahold of Doug Pratt, he might remember.

Sounds good. Some of my models including my OSO would have been purchased prior to 1977 and back then I wasn't concerned with documenting fin patterns and such, I just flew em and didn't think much of it .....

Do you remember a large dealer in the New Orleans (Metairie, Louisiana) area called Model Car Raceways? They stocked a lot of FSI, motors and kits. I bought early kits and motors from them many years before I purchased FSI through the mail order. I don't know of any other hobby stores in the New Orleans area other than Model Car Raceways that stocked FSI kits and motors .....

Any way you could post some details or perhaps a pic of that early George Roos cloud seeding rocket?
.

[carbons4]

I think I do remember that name. Cant be for sure. I personaly handled the hobby store in south Kansas city. Panorama Hobbies and gifts in robandee shoping center. Supper supper nice people. I have to say for the most part , most of the hobby stores we delt with directly were great ! I usually did not do much with shipping unless we were caught up with production. Which we almost never were.

[carbons4]

Will try to look for it if i get a chance. Most of my stuff is buried away somewhere. About the only things that are setting out right now are a motorcycle rocket from the movie Megaforce, a box of .903 tubing i brought from my dads a few months back and a huge rocket i had originally built for the Starship design contest that Lonnie and Larry took to the International Modelers show in 1978 at Long Beach i think. It hangs over the bed in my wifes sewing room. Yea shes happy. If I get a chance in next month or so i will try. The Cloud seeding rocket was about 27" long I think. Lower part is all motor. 1.125 phenolic tubing, bare, witha special plastic fin unit glued to it. Upper section fiberglass tubing with four fins and a tail cone that held the silver iodine, i think.

[dwmzmm]

Sounds good. Some of my models including my OSO would have been purchased prior to 1977 and back then I wasn't concerned with documenting fin patterns and such, I just flew em and didn't think much of it .....

Do you remember a large dealer in the New Orleans (Metairie, Louisiana) area called Model Car Raceways? They stocked a lot of FSI, motors and kits. I bought early kits and motors from them many years before I purchased FSI through the mail order. I don't know of any other hobby stores in the New Orleans area other than Model Car Raceways that stocked FSI kits and motors .....

Any way you could post some details or perhaps a pic of that early George Roos cloud seeding rocket?
.

I could be wrong here, but didn't a nice toy/hobby shop at Cortana Mall in Baton Rouge also
carry FSI products? If I remember correctly, I think I bought a few kits there in several of
my visits in the early 1980's. I do recall this hobby shop had tons of (soon to be OOP) kits
from Estes, Centuri and other manufacturers in those days, and I bought what I could afford
while I had the chance.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

About the only things that are setting out right now are a motorcycle rocket from the movie Megaforce,

Wow! I'd forgotten all about that movie. And the SOUNDTRACK! The two guys I rode to school with back then just loved it, but I couldn't stand it. I eventually threatened them with bodily harm if they played it if I was in the car.

[snaquin]

The Cloud seeding rocket was about 27" long I think. Lower part is all motor. 1.125 phenolic tubing, bare, witha special plastic fin unit glued to it. Upper section fiberglass tubing with four fins and a tail cone that held the silver iodine, i think.

That sounds like a really cool rocket! I know you mentioned a special plastic fin unit glued to it. I wondered if it could have been one of the fin units used on the EnerJet 1340 sounding rockets like in the attached images. Those would have slip fit on that phenolic tubing if the od was approx. 1.34" and the originals for the 1340 would have been molded in red plastic. The fin cans in the images below are mounted on 1.25 id Semroc airframes.

I know you're bombarded with requests and interest since your first post here but should you ever run across that model I'm sure many on the forum including myself would absolutely love to see what that model looked like .....

I could be wrong here, but didn't a nice toy/hobby shop at Cortana Mall in Baton Rouge also
carry FSI products? If I remember correctly, I think I bought a few kits there in several of
my visits in the early 1980's. I do recall this hobby shop had tons of (soon to be OOP) kits
from Estes, Centuri and other manufacturers in those days, and I bought what I could afford
while I had the chance.

The time frame I was buying from Model Car Raceways would have been early to mid 70's and I wasn't driving yet so I wasn't aware of any hobby shops in the Baton Rouge area, although I seem to remember you mentioned the shop in Cortana Mall before and I wish I had known about it so I could have paid it a visit in later years. During my senior year in high school 1979 I just found it easier to purchase FSI through the mail order. I don't remember exactly when Model Car Raceways went out of business but they had a really good selection of FSI motors and kits. I remember going with my dad and being drawn to the Centuri and Estes stuff in the color packages and my dad looked over a few of the FSI kits. He told me you really need to try these and showed me the plywood fins and figured a pretty sturdy model could be built with the FSI kits. When I inquired with the owner about it he said he had motors for them too and when I saw the motor selections I was pretty much hooked for a while with building and flying FSI.

.

[2ahoser]

This is a great thread. I have learned a ton. I use to fly FSI stuff in California for years. After getting back into the hobby, I always wondered what happened to FSI. You mentioned you work there until the mid 80's? How long did FSI stay in business? Why did they go away? I sure would fly those F100 today if I could, and I can't tell you how many Echo 1 I lost flying a E- E combo! Any chance of those motors coming back? Who owns the rights to FSI and is there any possibility of a future?

With all the retro look of rocketry, I can't think of a better company to "reappear". I know Semroc has done a awesome job of bringing back some of the old models, and most can be scratched built, but maybe we can fly those nice black powder D-F motors again!!!

Thanks so much for sharing, this has been just great. :D

Bob

[snaquin]

I forgot to inquire earlier but can anyone tell me how long the PL15 payload section was for the FSI Echo 1?

Standard catalog lengths for that dia. tubing were:

RT-1218 18" LONG {I'm sure it wasn't this one}
RT-1209 9" LONG
RT-1204 4.5" LONG

Thanks!

.

[stefanj]

How long did FSI stay in business?

The last catalog I know of was 1993. During the last years the motor line shrank and changed. I seem to recall red stamps on the motor page noting that the F7 was out of production.

Why did they go away?

Old Harold Reese passed away, and perhaps none of the remaining family had the expertise or the heart to continue.

Any chance of those motors coming back?

I REALLY doubt this. I think a company needs three things to be in the motor business: The legal stuff (licenses, approvals from California for each product), the expertise (not something you can learn from a book, at least not entirely), and the equipment, which is pricey and needs periodic refurbishment.

I suspect that FSI lived in a kind of charmed bubble as long as Harold (the motor maker) was alive and the other family members kept the business going.

RE-starting the business would be prohibitively expensive and difficult. You'd need to get manufacturing licenses and site permits and storage permits, yadda yadda, and if you want to be in the California market you have to get each product approved. (Apogee never sold its 13mm motors in CA because of the expense of doing this.) You can imagine that the 9/11 era BATF and DHS and so on would make this all a lot more difficult.

Who owns the rights to FSI and is there any possibility of a future?

I assume that any remaining Reeses have the rights. Semroc and BMS seem interested in re-releasing clone-kits. That's something I guess.

[barone]

I forgot to inquire earlier but can anyone tell me how long the PL15 payload section was for the FSI Echo 1?

Standard catalog lengths for that dia. tubing were:

RT-1218 18" LONG {I'm sure it wasn't this one}
RT-1209 9" LONG
RT-1204 4.5" LONG

Thanks!

.
Steve,

I've still got one in the bag. If no one provides an answer before I get home from work, I'll measure it for you. Seems these dimensions should have been included with the posted plans :confused:

Edit: Yep, checked the plans listed here and they show the payload tube to be 4" long ;)

[carbons4]

Lonnie was really the heart and soul of the buisness. He poured more into it than most will ever know. Like i have said time and time again ,it was definetly a family buisness and Harold helped as much as he could. When Lonnie passed away at the time ,there were questions on how the company would go forward. I think it was as much out of respect for Lonnie as anything. When Harold died in 1993, i said somthing to Larry then and the impression i got was that was pretty much the end. You have to remember at this point Larry had lost both his brother and his dad he was not to intrested in the company. The corperation was the family. As someone that has lost his brother and dad in the last few yrs, i know exactly how Larry felt. As was brought up earlier the cost of doing buisness today plus the red tape galore, those days are gone. Believe me ,just besides being friends with the Reeses and miss their company , I wish i could go lay down some greenbacks and get a pack of new F100 or F7s. Ah the good ole days.

[carbons4]

As i had said before Larry was really the one with the motor expertise. He is the one that had spent the most time with George on the motors. All three of us had spent time at Linda Hall library looking thru russian rocket manuals. Larry was the true motor expert of the family.

[snaquin]

Steve,

I've still got one in the bag. If no one provides an answer before I get home from work, I'll measure it for you. Seems these dimensions should have been included with the posted plans :confused:

Edit: Yep, checked the plans listed here and they show the payload tube to be 4" long ;)

Thanks Don!

I was going to try to model it in RockSim over the weekend with 24mm mounts and the version I had many moons ago I had also purchased the payload section for it. I thought it looked better being longer with the payload section too.

.

[carbons4]

The movie buisness and several colaberations with Johns Hopkins Un. took a decent amount of buisness in the 80's. I have to mention this to Bill , at the time I being a totaly serious person.....Not, decided to have a little fun. After the movie was released I sent a long letter to Estes industries under a alias and using my friends dorm address at CMSU. Figured if I used a Raytown address somebody would smell a rat. Somthing like "Dear mr Estes, I just saw the movie Megaforce and was VERY impressed with the rockets in the movie. I have a dune buggy i have decided to convert to a Megadistroyer and would like to purchase some of those awsome rockets to fly myself." Yea I know I made them and this would go over like a stone ballon but hey , boys will be boys. I never would have dreamed my friend got a letter back stating "dear mr blah blah blah, WE DO NOT CONDONE THIS USE OF MODEL ROCKETS" Blah blah blah yada yada yada. Yea we all got a laugh out of it. Sorry Vern.

[carbons4]

As a side note to the last post , we had recieved our fair share of those types of letters. More than once Lonnie would come out of his office and say, "hey guys i gota read you this". Some contender for the Darwin award would write in with a question on how to do somthing that would probably kill said branch of his family tree. The BEST example was when Megaforce was shooting, Lonnie went out to the desert as a technical adviser. When he got back ,his impression of "professional stuntmen" changed! Basicly they were lucky they didnt kill themselves. " I always had the impression everything was carefuly maped out before they shot", he told us all. The buggy rockets had a cluster of three F100s giving them a total of 105 lbs of thrust. The motorcycle rockets were only a single F100. No exlposive charges but a hardwood/resin nose cone. Thats gota hurt!!!!! Only one worse than that, The rockets used for the movie Best Defense used a 7 cluster F100.

[Shreadvector]

Find James Tucci who grew up in Florida and now lives in the Los Angeles area and appears at some ROC launches. He has photos of a high school event from FL that had someone IIRC in a radio flyer with a plywood board on the back and a large number of F100 motors. I think it was in a gym in front of a large crowd.

[carbons4]

holy @#%#!!!!!! he said shaking his head. Im guessing this was the days of pre lawsuit mania?

[shockwaveriderz]

I came across some information in the June 1973 Model Rocketeer about FSI which all might find interesting.

In past posts, I had posted that the George Roos FSI was sold to the Resse Brothers between 1972-74 and now I have a more specific date.

At the March 1973 Pittsburgh Spring Convention, the following is reported:

" Doug Pratt, the Convention manufacturer liason, had some information about another new company, Reese Industries. Located in Raytown, Missouri, they are presently the exclusive distributor for all of the Flight Sysetms, Inc products.

Mr. Reese could not attend the convention, because of work on a new catalog, but he passed along information about a new line of Reese kits, designed around the long duration FSI engines. A scale Balck Brant II is in thw works, powered by an F100. Watch the Model Rocketeer for ads, or write to Resses Industries, 9300 E. 68th , Raytown, MO 64133 for more information and a catalog. "

terry dean

[shockwaveriderz]

From the article NARAM-16 Manufacturer's review in the Oct 1974 Model Rocketeer:

Lonnie Resse of Flight Systems Incorporated unvield his company's new "Thunderbolt" engine, along with a series of kits. The FSI Thunderbolt is a 70 Nt.sec. engine which burns for 2.6 seconds.

Lonnie had the Thunderbols tested with the Northern Missouri waether Bureau.

Doppler radar indicated that the F25 engine went to 4,000 ft in 7 seconds.

EDIT Its my understanding this eventually became the F32 Thunderbolt.

Full specs on the engine, as well as ordering information, are avilable from FAI at 9300 East 68th Street, Raytown, Missouir 64133.

These engines may eb a bit expensive for the average rocketeer, however; they retail for $7.95 each, with an even larger shipping charge.

attached is a pic of Lonnie Reese at NARAM-16

Question: was this F25 a BP or composite motor? Didn't FSI come out also in the early 90's with a composite FG Thunderbolt?


terry dean

[ghrocketman]

The FSI F25/F32 Thunderbolts as well as their later G motor were all composite (AP based) motors.

[carbons4]

Yea we always got a good laugh out of that picture. One of Lonnies favorite pictures is of him Dressed up like Robbert Goddard flying a model of goddards first liquid fuel rocket with a F100 for the anivarsary of the flight.

[shockwaveriderz]

The FSI F25/F32 Thunderbolts as well as their later G motor were all composite (AP based) motors.


ghrocketman: ( I wish I knew what your real name was; I really hate talking to aliases)

so you are telling me that as early as 1974 FSI was already selling COMPOSITE F25/F32 motors. WOW

This is the 1st I have ever heard of this.

Didn't I see 2 completely different FSI Thunderbolt motors posted here by 2 different people? Or am I mistaken? I'm not saying you are incorrect but I thought that FSI had 2 versions of this Thunderbolt motor: this 1974 one which was BP and a later on in the early 90's that was Composite. So don't anybody take anything the wrong way. I'm just asking here to be 100% sure.

The only reason that I am having a hard time "digesting" this is (and don't anybody take this the wrong way), FSI BP motor were considered to be S**T by a number of people within the NAR: Trip Barber (I assume you know who he is) when he was NAR S&T in this time frame , wrote a scathing analysis about the reliability of FSI BP motors.

While making APCP composite motors isn't nearly as much art and science as making BP motors is , I'm surprised to find out that FSI would even have this capability;especially in 1974!


Ghrocketman: do you have any additional information that might help? Carboms4? You have any info on these Thunderbolt motors?

thanks

terry dean

[shockwaveriderz]

Yea we always got a good laugh out of that picture. One of Lonnies favorite pictures is of him Dressed up like Robbert Goddard flying a model of goddards first liquid fuel rocket with a F100 for the anivarsary of the flight.

Carbons4: I found a couple more Lonnie Reese photos from the 1970's which as I get the time will scan and post here:

One is a Aprils Fool's pic; one shows him with Vern and Gleda Estes at a HIAA show and the last was a cover pic of him setting up a large rocket to fire.

terry dean

[Shreadvector]

I saw composite FSI Thunderbolt motors at NARAM 16.

IIRC they were beyond an F motor. They were listed in catalogs, were they not?

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/nostalgia/77fsi20d.html

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/nostalgia/77fsi22.html

OK, in that year they were listed as an F, but I could of sworn there were other versions. no time to look at other years.....

ghrocketman: ( I wish I knew what your real name was; I really hate talking to aliases)

so you are telling me that as early as 1974 FSI was already selling COMPOSITE F25/F32 motors. WOW

This is the 1st I have ever heard of this.

Didn't I see 2 completely different FSI Thunderbolt motors posted here by 2 different people? Or am I mistaken? I'm not saying you are incorrect but I thought that FSI had 2 versions of this Thunderbolt motor: this 1974 one which was BP and a later on in the early 90's that was Composite. So don't anybody take anything the wrong way. I'm just asking here to be 100% sure.

The only reason that I am having a hard time "digesting" this is (and don't anybody take this the wrong way), FSI BP motor were considered to be S**T by a number of people within the NAR: Trip Barber (I assume you know who he is) when he was NAR S&T in this time frame , wrote a scathing analysis about the reliability of FSI BP motors.

While making APCP composite motors isn't nearly as much art and science as making BP motors is , I'm surprised to find out that FSI would even have this capability;especially in 1974!


Ghrocketman: do you have any additional information that might help? Carboms4? You have any info on these Thunderbolt motors?

thanks

terry dean

[dwmzmm]

The fact of the matter is I've never really seen many photos of Lonnie Reese (other than
those shown in the FSI catalogs attaching the clips to the igniter). It'll be great if more pics
of Lonnie can be posted.

[Royatl]

ghrocketman: ( I wish I knew what your real name was; I really hate talking to aliases)

so you are telling me that as early as 1974 FSI was already selling COMPOSITE F25/F32 motors. WOW


terry dean

Terry,
I always understood the Thunderbolt as being a composite motor.


As far as Trip's 'scathing review', are you referring to the paper that is in the 1974 MIT Rocket Society booklet? Where he posts data for bunches of motors? My opinion is it is a scathing expose of *all* model rocket motors. He merely showed that one had to take catalog motor data with a big grain of salt. Most of us already knew this about the FSI motors, especially after the NARAM 13 D18 debacle! Even caught Howard Kuhn in its horrible deceit! :) (for those joining the story late, the D18 had a high spike and a long low tail, so effectively it was more like a D4. But people built nice scale models assuming the stated Av thrust. There were quite a few severely underpowered scale models that year!)

[Leo]

.... ( I wish I knew what your real name was; I really hate talking to aliases)

...


You are not the only one. I hate it aswell :mad:

[carbons4]

Im not really sure how far back that George started making perclorate motors but it was back there. I have a GR-1 from 1973 and a GR-2 (no date) in my collection. The GR is for George Roos not "G" motor. Remember at the time the NAR was the BIG DOG on the block and officially there were NO motors over 80ns. Outwardly both of these motors look exactly like Thunderbolts. Same casing ,same graphite exhaust, same size. Im guessing with his background early 60's .

[carbons4]

I remember at the time there was some diference of opinion on motor specs. I also seem to remember we were not the only ones. I remember hearing Myke at AVI having a different result on his F23 to what MIT rated them. George was a smart man but when he was making the motors uniformity was not what they should have been. That also lead to many catos on larger motors. Until Late 70's FSI had to go by either outside testing or what George said the rating was. A friend of Lonnies in the late 70's built our first tester. That way we could actually test motors ourselves whenever we saw fit. Built a second unit in mid 80's with some equipment i had bought at Goverment auction at my other job. THIS MACHINE WAS ACCURATE! There were down sides to the difference in opinion in rating. (some motors lost their contest cert for a while) There were also upsides to this. For a while F100's were rated at E'S and E60's were rated as D's. This made for a great F100/E60 cap distcharged mercury ignition that was pretty unbeatable, and legal.

[carbons4]

I will have to look for pictures of Lonnie. Like most guys i took pictures of stuff back then , not of people unless it was embarassing. I think i have a picture of the Reeses standing in front of this big curved moon scape they used as a backdrop at trade shows. Will have to look.

As for names, mine is Tim.

[carbons4]

As per what terry aluded to is correct Composite motors are a lot more of a exact science than Black Powder motors. You have basicly seven ingreedients that go into the propellant of a composate motor ,oxidizer, fuel, and about five ingreedients that go into your PBAN binder if i remember correctly. Its been over 20 yrs and i have slept since then. Getting the air bubbles out, yada yada yada, it always seemed a bit more of a exact science to me. I personally loved the black powder motors. Like I had said before, Lonnie had told me that "Guys like Rosenfield and Dixon thought we were nuts for making those black powder motors, too dangerous" . Until we started R&D on composites ourselves, thats what I thought about them. There are different things that play into a motor of each design.

[shockwaveriderz]

Terry,
I always understood the Thunderbolt as being a composite motor.


As far as Trip's 'scathing review', are you referring to the paper that is in the 1974 MIT Rocket Society booklet? Where he posts data for bunches of motors? My opinion is it is a scathing expose of *all* model rocket motors. He merely showed that one had to take catalog motor data with a big grain of salt. Most of us already knew this about the FSI motors, especially after the NARAM 13 D18 debacle! Even caught Howard Kuhn in its horrible deceit! :) (for those joining the story late, the D18 had a high spike and a long low tail, so effectively it was more like a D4. But people built nice scale models assuming the stated Av thrust. There were quite a few severely underpowered scale models that year!)

Roy:

yes, that is what I was referring to specifically. Going "back to the day" with these 1973-1979 Model Rocketeers , there are a number of negative comments spread throughout about FSI motors by a number of writers.

terry dean

[shockwaveriderz]

Im not really sure how far back that George started making perclorate motors but it was back there. I have a GR-1 from 1973 and a GR-2 (no date) in my collection. The GR is for George Roos not "G" motor. Remember at the time the NAR was the BIG DOG on the block and officially there were NO motors over 80ns. Outwardly both of these motors look exactly like Thunderbolts. Same casing ,same graphite exhaust, same size. Im guessing with his background early 60's .


This is mostly new historical info for me. By 1973 I was completely out of model rocketry till at least 1978. This is mostly ALL new to me that FSI was involved with composites so far back. I did read in one of these Model Rocketeers about the GR motor. I'll see if I can re-find the reference. It would be nice to have multiple photos of these historical composite motors.

So you seem to be implying that composites came to FSI (and the Reese FSI) via George Roos?

terry dean

[shockwaveriderz]

The fact of the matter is I've never really seen many photos of Lonnie Reese (other than
those shown in the FSI catalogs attaching the clips to the igniter). It'll be great if more pics
of Lonnie can be posted.


Dave here you go

pic 1 : Lonnie Resses hooking up igniters on an FSI E60-6 "LoadlIfter"Mercury-Egglofter(E) for a new world record flight at MAC-75 389 meters.

pic 2: Aprils' Fool Editorial called "Image Problem", about strapping Lonnie Reese to a FSI Black Brant powered by one of his F32 Thunderbolts.

pic3 HIAA Trade Show Jan 1977 Texas Lonnie Reese with Vern and Gleda Estes

terry dean

[carbons4]

Yes the Thunderbolts were composites. George made componets for the goverment. the cloud seeding rocket that Lonnie had that i have a copy of was a composite motor. I believe most of Georges non hobby work was in composites. The Thunderbolts dried up in late 70's early 80's just like the lack of intrest in supplying black powder motors had happened. The black powder motors were our bread and butter. That was PRIORITY in devolping. Larry had learned a little about composites from George but the later composites were all pretty much our in house devolpment.

[carbons4]

I had forgoten about the picture of him hangin ten on the Black Brant II . Thanks for posting!!!!!

[shockwaveriderz]

Tim:

Do you (or anybody else) know anything about the FSI "Pulsators".

These were first debuted at the 1977 HIAA show in Texas by Lonnie Reese and advertised in the pages of Modle Rocketeer.

were these "Real" or "Vaporware" ?


Descriptions include "Two distinct power buildups" Unique Sound: Almost like staging two conventional model rocket engines.

More Power and efficient use of that power


"Lonnie, who was only at the show as an observer, hinted around about some new engines FSI will be bringing out. (A couple weeks after the show, I got an official announcement: FSI wil have the three new motors ready for marketing by mid-April, and will be in the A.B.C power classes and will be of standadrd 18mm diamter. The unique feature of these engines is that they will have two distnct thrust peaks that Lonnie claims improves performance by over a third. "

WHOA!


terry dean

[carbons4]

The Pulsators were real, kinda. I do have one or two in my collection. They never really went into production but they were devolped. As usual , George worked on his own schedule and it was not really customer friendly. Lonnies plan was to bring in A,B,and C 18mm Pulsators and phase out the 21mm A,B, and C motors. Engine tube conversions were all ready to go into production for our kits. George changed his mind back then about as much as people change underware. Making short runs on a manual press is a lot cheaper than converting to a automated press which is what Lonnie wanted to do. He wanted not only a standardized A,B,and C motor BUT for FSI motors to fit in every ESTES and Centuri kit out there. Fsi was 3rd behind Estes and Centuri but when you are talking gross and net it was deffinetly David and Goliath. Remember the economy was hurting in late 70's and model rocket sales across the board was down. The Star Wars and Buck Rodgers was not the FSI target consumer. Bottom line is that the bottom line kept them from going into production when Lonnie wanted them to. Besides tooling for 18mm motors ,pulsators cost a bit more to make over standard A4, B3, etc. Some of those first batches did make it to a few customers. VERY FEW THOUGH.

[shockwaveriderz]

Tim:

Again photos of these motors would be greatly appreciated as I don't think most if not all people first didn't know they actually ever existed plus nobody ever saw them.

Pics from the front and side views with a ruler would be great.


thanks for your memories!

terry dean

[stefanj]

Regarding Thunderbolt G motors, I recall seeing a "coming soon" page about them in one of the very last FSI catalogs. Just a picture of a static test, no stats.

Thanks for the continued insights, Carbon4 / Tim!

For a while, Rocketflite (sp?) took up the banner of large BP motors. Their early "F101" motors were very unreliable, but the later iteration, the F50, and the humongous G160 and H220, were pretty reliable. Up until a disastrous last run.

These had very light aluminum cases wrapped in paper, 29mm and 38mm in size. The F50 was much longer than an F100, probably closer in size to the old Mini Max motors. They came in regular and "Silver Streak" variants; the latter were great for setting brush fires.

I recall that the G160 was a full G! Wow, that thing was amazing.

I once flew an F50-0 to F50-7SS (?) in a NCR Quantum II. It was close to dusk and the silver streak motor in the upper stage was just an amazing sight.

[Initiator001]

<snip>

For a while, Rocketflite (sp?) took up the banner of large BP motors. Their early "F101" motors were very unreliable, but the later iteration, the F50, and the humongous G160 and H220, were pretty reliable. Up until a disastrous last run.

These had very light aluminum cases wrapped in paper, 29mm and 38mm in size. The F50 was much longer than an F100, probably closer in size to the old Mini Max motors. They came in regular and "Silver Streak" variants; the latter were great for setting brush fires.

I recall that the G160 was a full G! Wow, that thing was amazing.



The first Rocketfite 'G' motors were G100s. They were 38mm diameter in a completely paper case. Later Rocketflite motors were aluminum case wrapped in paper.

When I was at AeroTech, we static fired a G100 and it had a total impulse of 90 n-sec.

Yeah, the Silver Streak motors were pretty cool.

Bob

[carbons4]

I will but it will be a while before i can. Like I had stated all that stuff is packed away right now.

[SEL]

The 1988 FSI catalogue is up om the Ninfinger site ( http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/fsi88/88fsicat.html ).
The drawings in this one are pretty cool. This was the year that FSI changed their packaging, dropped the Viking's 1 and 3, and added the scale kits and I think released the 18mm A - C motors. Interesting note: The Echo 1 on pg. 11 shows a three-finned booster. Somebody goofed...

S.

[SEL]

The 1996 FSI catalogue (the last as far as I know) is also up on the Ninfinger site ( http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/fsi96/96fsicat.html ).

S.

[carbons4]

Thanks for posting the link. I know Jerry had noted interest In a last yr. catalog. Will have to tell him.

[SEL]

Thanks for posting the link. I know Jerry had noted interest In a last yr. catalog. Will have to tell him.

My pleasure - sorry it took so long for me to get the scans over to Sven. I've been meaning to do it for years :o

S.

[Neal Miller]

Here is a link to some nice old FSI Kits on Ebay. they look to be from the late 1970's
they have the Red and Black Select-A- Chute and the Colorado address is lined out.
I still have a few of the Red and Black chute left,
the cool thing I liked about FSI Kits was the pin-hole reinforcements at the fin root and the body tube.





http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=vintage&_sop=10&_osacat=2567&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR10.TRC0.A0.XFSI&_nkw=FSI&_sacat=2567&_from=R40

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Here is a link to some nice old FSI Kits on Ebay. they look to be from the late 1970's
they have the Red and Black Select-A- Chute and the Colorado address is lined out.
I still have a few of the Red and Black chute left,
the cool thing I liked about FSI Kits was the pin-hole reinforcements at the fin root and the body tube.





http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=vintage&_sop=10&_osacat=2567&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR10.TRC0.A0.XFSI&_nkw=FSI&_sacat=2567&_from=R40
Those are pretty good prices. If this was last year they'd all be gone already, but with the sale of the FSI assets, there's a chance that we'll see them all again.