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FireballXL5
08-27-2008, 01:42 AM
I bought a Saturn 1b kit on eBay 8 yrs ago or more. It isn't an Estes kit, although the instructions are copies of the Estes kit. I remember that the eBay description touted the kit as a big deal because of who was offering it. The only clue I have about the seller is that the decal sheet has "KDS" and "1998" on it.
Does anyone know anything more about this kit? Is it special, or just some kind of hybrid?
Thanks for your help.

Der Red Max
08-27-2008, 02:39 AM
I bought a Saturn 1b kit on eBay 8 yrs ago or more. It isn't an Estes kit, although the instructions are copies of the Estes kit. I remember that the eBay description touted the kit as a big deal because of who was offering it. The only clue I have about the seller is that the decal sheet has "KDS" and "1998" on it.
Does anyone know anything more about this kit? Is it special, or just some kind of hybrid?
Thanks for your help.
My money is on the KosRox Saturn 1B (clone). He doesn't make any kits anymore but here is his site (last updated 12/31/03): http://www.tela.com/~dtkostron/ (http://www.tela.com/%7Edtkostron/)

Phred
08-27-2008, 08:14 AM
KDS means the decal set is Kurt Schachner's. I know he drew them, but do not know if he printed them. Sounds like Kosrox to me as well. I have two sets of Sat 1b tubes from Kosrox, and never got around to building the kit. I gguess now that SEMROC sells a complete kit, I may not ever get around to it....

Phred

kurtschachner
08-27-2008, 09:02 AM
Yes, that was a "kit" that I put together back in 1998. IIRC there were 14 of us that went in on getting sets of those tubes made because at the time none were available. The decals were drawn by me (from a scan of the originals) and were screen printed by After Hours Graphics in Ohio. They're no longer in business BTW, which is unfortunate because they did fantastic work. The capsule parts were cast by JimZ .

After I put the basic kit together, additional mission decals were made available as were the standard size tubes.

Rocketcrab
08-27-2008, 11:37 AM
I bought a Saturn 1b kit on eBay 8 yrs ago or more. It isn't an Estes kit, although the instructions are copies of the Estes kit. I remember that the eBay description touted the kit as a big deal because of who was offering it. The only clue I have about the seller is that the decal sheet has "KDS" and "1998" on it.
Does anyone know anything more about this kit? Is it special, or just some kind of hybrid?
Thanks for your help.

I have built and flown the KOSROX kit, and the instructions were not copies of the Estes kit. in fact, the model was not a clone of the old Estes K-29. It was more of an up-scale of the more recent 1/100-scale Estes Saturn 1B.

FireballXL5
08-27-2008, 12:12 PM
Kurt, Wow - thanks for the info. The Saturn 1b is such a cool rocket and has always been my favorite.
Is this the KOSROX kit everyone seems to think it is?
Also, most of the instructions included appear to me to be copies from the original Estes kit. Is that true?
Thanks again.

kurtschachner
08-27-2008, 01:38 PM
Kurt, Wow - thanks for the info. The Saturn 1b is such a cool rocket and has always been my favorite.
Is this the KOSROX kit everyone seems to think it is?
Also, most of the instructions included appear to me to be copies from the original Estes kit. Is that true?
Thanks again.

No, it isn't the Kosrox kit. The kit you have is entirely different than what Damian did for his kit (Kosrox).

What I did was to contact (IIRC) 10 people I knew from the Internet (mostly r.m.r) that were into old rockets. I asked if they would be interested in going together in getting 100 sets of then-unavailable tubes made up to clone the old Estes Saturn 1b. In the end I think we had about 14 people join the collective which was OK, since the tube manufacturer sent more than the 100 sets I paid for. I also had the decals screen printed and like I mentioned, JimZ resin cast the Apollo capsule parts. This was because BMS was not able to manufacture those balsa pieces as required. I then redrew all the original Estes patterns and rings and included a clean copy of the instruction sheets with each set.

The kits were never "for sale" as such. Each group member got 10 (or whatever it was) sets as part of their deal and what they did with them after that was up to them. I know some got sold on eBay or various other places. One of the group members went back to the tube manufacturer and had the rest of the tubes made up, and IIRC offered them for sale at a later time.

The decals were the shining star of that deal. After Hours Graphics did just a fantastic job screen printing them at a very decent price. Screen printing is the way to go for decals. Not to knock Alps printing (I have two of the printers) but you can't reproduce all colors with them and the prints are very soft and prone to scratching. Screen printed decals are far better in this respect.

See what we had to go through to clone old kits before Semroc? :)

Ltvscout
08-27-2008, 09:04 PM
The kits were never "for sale" as such. Each group member got 10 (or whatever it was) sets as part of their deal and what they did with them after that was up to them. I know some got sold on eBay or various other places. One of the group members went back to the tube manufacturer and had the rest of the tubes made up, and IIRC offered them for sale at a later time.
I still have my 1b "kit" I got from you back in '98 soon after I joined WOOSH.

grog
08-27-2008, 10:28 PM
What I did was to contact (IIRC) 10 people I knew from the Internet (mostly r.m.r) that were into old rockets. I asked if they would be interested in going together in getting 100 sets of then-unavailable tubes made up to clone the old Estes Saturn 1b. In the end I think we had about 14 people join the collective which was OK, since the tube manufacturer sent more than the 100 sets I paid for. I also had the decals screen printed and like I mentioned, JimZ resin cast the Apollo capsule parts. This was because BMS was not able to manufacture those balsa pieces as required. I then redrew all the original Estes patterns and rings and included a clean copy of the instruction sheets with each set.



Kurt,

I was one of the guys that went in on the deal and had some of the tubes ordered that we divided up. I still have my tubes in the basement . Never got around to building one yet. maybe soon. (Could be a winter project for me.) And I have a Kosrox kit as well (and a Semroc kit).

Greg

kurtschachner
08-28-2008, 09:07 PM
Kurt,

I was one of the guys that went in on the deal and had some of the tubes ordered that we divided up. I still have my tubes in the basement . Never got around to building one yet. maybe soon. (Could be a winter project for me.) And I have a Kosrox kit as well (and a Semroc kit).

Greg

Hi Greg,

PM me if you get a chance.

gelder?

kurtschachner
08-28-2008, 09:08 PM
I still have my 1b "kit" I got from you back in '98 soon after I joined WOOSH.

Yeah, I forgot you had one of those.

I know of only one person that actually built the thing. He ended up using the Apogee capsule though, but it was at my suggestion.

SEL
08-28-2008, 11:58 PM
Yes, that was a "kit" that I put together back in 1998. IIRC there were 14 of us that went in on getting sets of those tubes made because at the time none were available. The decals were drawn by me (from a scan of the originals) and were screen printed by After Hours Graphics in Ohio. They're no longer in business BTW, which is unfortunate because they did fantastic work. The capsule parts were cast by JimZ .

After I put the basic kit together, additional mission decals were made available as were the standard size tubes.


I was / am one of the chosen few. I actually started to build one soon after the tubes arrived and will probably finish it this winter. I've got JimZ capsule parts, too. And your right, the decals are downright beautiful!!

Sean

kc4jta
09-03-2008, 03:19 AM
I have been in rocketry since 1967 when I was 11 years old. At that time the Saturn 1b sold for $9.50. That was a fortune for an 11 year old boy. I did have a school teacher that built one and even launched it at a club launch and demo. It made a beautiful flight and was recovered great. There is just something magic about the 1b that I cant put my finger on. I do plan to get the Semrock kit when I can. I also have the Kosrox kit about 3/4 done after having it for 4 years or so. The Dr. Zooch kit is nice too. Is there any way I can get the tube kit that you guys are talking about? I would love to have one.

kurtschachner
09-04-2008, 10:46 PM
I don't have any extras left, those that I did I used as trade fodder years ago. But honestly, you don't want it. The quality of the Semroc kit is better, plus you get everything - not just the tube sets.

If you bought a Semroc kit and threw away everything but the tubes (and the capsule I guess) then you essentially have this "kit". OK, the decals were nicer but really that is all.

I have been in rocketry since 1967 when I was 11 years old. At that time the Saturn 1b sold for $9.50. That was a fortune for an 11 year old boy. I did have a school teacher that built one and even launched it at a club launch and demo. It made a beautiful flight and was recovered great. There is just something magic about the 1b that I cant put my finger on. I do plan to get the Semrock kit when I can. I also have the Kosrox kit about 3/4 done after having it for 4 years or so. The Dr. Zooch kit is nice too. Is there any way I can get the tube kit that you guys are talking about? I would love to have one.

mglind
04-29-2009, 09:51 PM
I had painstakingly created a really nice complete clone kit of the Estes K-29 Saturn 1B and sold it on EBAY back in March of 2004. The user ID of the person who won the auction was "tom*chc". If you bought your kit eight years ago, then it couldn't have been the one I created and sold.

Ltvscout
04-29-2009, 09:54 PM
I had painstakingly created a really nice complete clone kit of the Estes K-29 Saturn 1B and sold it on EBAY back in March of 2004. The user ID of the person who won the auction was "tom*chc". If you bought your kit eight years ago, then it couldn't have been the one I created and sold.
I remember that eBay handle. He was buying a lot of stuff back then. He may still be, but with eBay's goofy new way of showing bidders there's no way to know who's who anymore.

mglind
04-29-2009, 10:02 PM
I had created two of those K-29 clone kits. I sold the second one, but the first one I took the time to build and fly myself. I used four C6-5 motors and it was an awesome flight...with a perfect recovery. I was so proud as that bird came gently floating down - that was one of my most exciting moments in the hobby so far!

Attached are a couple of pictures from that flight!