Estes Announces Releases For Summer 2009

[Rocket Doctor]

Hee is the list of releases for the summer of 2009 from estes
BALSA nose cones, laser cut balsa fins, water slide decals

Coming Summer 2009 From Estes

3001 ARV Condor

3002 Aero Dart

3004 America

3005 Arrow 300

3006 Astron Nighthawk

3007 Astron Space Plane

3008 Astron X-Ray

3041 Bllue Bird Zero

3010 Eagle Power

3011 Egg Crate

3014 Fly8ing Saucer

3015 Groove Tube

3017 Micro Probe

3018 Mini Dactyl

3019 Nova

3020 Odyssey

3021 Optima

3023 Pegasus

3024 Phoenix Bird

3028 Sky Devil

3029 SST Shuttle

3030 Starship Vega

3032 Stellar Phonton Probe

3034 USS Ameerica

3035 -24 Bug

[Green Dragon]

These are going to make be broke, you know :)

you know, if might sound strange, but the one that most got my attention on the list was the Phoenix Bird .

One I've wanted for sometime, and the chrome decals would be hard to clone.

Will be looking forward to these ( of course some are announced right after I cloned one, or just ordered parts, or just cut fins by hand, etc etc... )

waiting to see which make it to pruduction and shelves... same as the shrox kits, etc.

~ AL

[sandman]

The Astron Spaceplane has me a bit confused as a "bring back".

I thought that design was patented and owned by Vern Estes and John Shutz.

It says that right on the decal that cones with the SEMROC kit.

[mperdue]

The Astron Spaceplane has me a bit confused as a "bring back".

I thought that design was patented and owned by Vern Estes and John Shutz.

It says that right on the decal that cones with the SEMROC kit.
That doesn't mean it wasn't part of the intellectual property that went with the company when they sold it.

Mario

[jj94]

Nice! :D

But what will happen to the clones that Semroc sells? For example, the SST Shuttle. Will they stop producing their clone since Estes will rerelease it?

[mperdue]

Nice! :D

But what will happen to the clones that Semroc sells? For example, the SST Shuttle. Will they stop producing their clone since Estes will rerelease it?
Not if people keep buying them. I see more clones and SLS kits in Semroc's future. Maybe even some new designs...

One of the many nice things about the Semroc clones is that they use the original body tube sizes. They are often not exact clones as many have various improvements to the design; the Saturn 1B is a good example - it looks the same when it's done but there are several differences in the actual build.

Mario

[hcmbanjo]

I just noticed something interesting on the Semroc site.
Go to the "Classics 1953 - 1995" page. Then, hit the "Queue" button to see their upcoming kits.
17 out of the first 18 listed are the new Estes Classic Flyer re-issues! Coincidence?

On the Semroc Home Page they say:
"We are at a celebration and will resume shipping on October 20 (Monday.) More details this weekend..."
A celebration?
Maybe Semroc is handling the nose cone and fin fabrication for Estes. Just a thought - There is just too many ties here.


Hans "Chris' Michielssen

[rraeford]

Like many of you I have regarded this announcement from Estes with skepticism. But for the moment let's assume that the kits will be released/rereleased/brought back.

IMHO, the specific models they've picked are a bit odd. For example, why so many garden variety Centuri designs? Do we really need a rerelease of the Star Trooper? Or the Nova? For that matter, why the Chuter 2? Instead, why not bring back the beautiful Stiletto or Black Widow?

Don't get me wrong, I applaud the effort. But why not "bring back" the Estes Shrike? Or the Avenger? And with the soon-to-be-available A10-0T, why no Beta or Midget?

As to classic Estes fanyasy designs, why no Andromeda (no plastic parts needed), Trident (same), or Mars Snooper? From a profitabilty standpoint, there are many 3 or 4FNC kits they could easily rerelease without extensive retooling/remaking of parts - like the Goblin, Cherokee D and others that regularly fetch handsome sums on eBay.

I'm just curious. I realize they can't bring them all back but some of the choices just seem... as I said...odd.

My two cents.

Oh BTW, and I'm certain I'm not alone in this by ANY means, but the reason I agonize over part sizes and tube lengths is because I want my clones to as absolutely close to the originals as possible, so no BT-50-sized Centuri ST-8/ST-10 redos for me. I don't mean to be rude about it but thanks to Semroc I don't have to settle for "close enough."

rraeford

[hcmbanjo]

I stand corrected - Semroc is at an Apollo 7 reunion launch ("a celebration") this weekend.
But the Semroc queue listing of upcoming kits is still food for thought.

Hans "Chris" Michielssen

[Bob Thomas]

I know I am not alone. As was similarly stated, I can't imagine a Long Tom , Groove Tube, or Excalibur 2 (to name just a few in my clone collection) stuffed into existing Estes Tube sizes and one size fits all cones.

If they do follow up on this Classic Series, I will buy every one for sure. But I will build the entire Centuri line with appropriate ST series tubes and cones.

Of the over a hundred bagged kits I own, few can ever give me the joy that I get reproducing a classic rocket from available (or best available) parts. I think thats why I'm not building them as quickly as clones.

SEMROC (or a group of like minded partners - maybe YORF investors) should buy Estes and return the soul to the product [and restore Vern and Gleda's mojo to the company name].

If only I was Warren Buffett....... I would have a lot of jobs for you guys..

[Mark II]

I just noticed something interesting on the Semroc site.
Go to the "Classics 1953 - 1995" page. Then, hit the "Queue" button to see their upcoming kits.
17 out of the first 18 listed are the new Estes Classic Flyer re-issues! Coincidence?

On the Semroc Home Page they say:
"We are at a celebration and will resume shipping on October 20 (Monday.) More details this weekend..."
A celebration?
Maybe Semroc is handling the nose cone and fin fabrication for Estes. Just a thought - There is just too many ties here.


Hans "Chris' Michielssen
The celebration referred to on the Semroc home page is the big 40th anniversary celebration (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=4034) in Dallas for Apollo 7.

Mark \\.

[AKPilot]

You know the real difference between Semroc and Estes.

Semroc asks us to vote for what we want released . . . Estes tells us what they'll release. Which company is really listening to their customers?!

I still firmly stand behind my thoughts about 2009 Estes releases, based on their previous promises that they never filled. They've promised lots and have yet to fill on many - why should I believe them now?

[barone]

You know the real difference between Semroc and Estes.

Semroc asks us to vote for what we want released . . . Estes tells us what they'll release. Which company is really listening to their customers?!

I still firmly stand behind my thoughts about 2009 Estes releases, based on their previous promises that they never filled. They've promised lots and have yet to fill on many - why should I believe them now?
Well....my own two cents. I think it's great that Estes announced this. I think it will be even greater if they come through and actually market them.

If they do market them, great. I think I'll buy a few (okay, maybe a little more than a few... :D ) If they don't, it's no skin off my nose. I still have all those other vendors out there willing to provide for me. I'm not changing anything I do or where I shop.

[Carl@Semroc]

The Astron Spaceplane has me a bit confused as a "bring back".

I thought that design was patented and owned by Vern Estes and John Shutz.

It says that right on the decal that cones with the SEMROC kit.The patent covered the particular boost glider concept and has since expired. The Astron Space Plane was designed by Vern and John, but you can not patent a particular design in the US. Estes Industries did not copyright the original plans, but does have a registered trademark on "Astron." They have a pending trademark registration on "Astron Space Plane" and "Space Plane" subject to "prior use" not being proven.

[Carl@Semroc]

Nice! :D

But what will happen to the clones that Semroc sells? For example, the SST Shuttle. Will they stop producing their clone since Estes will rerelease it?We have been producing the SST Shuttle-1™ for three years. Estes has a pending trademark on "SST Shuttle", but it is not clear whether it will be the same model. In any case, they did not designate this registered trademark on a model previously "in commerce", so it is not actually a re-release or there would be a date in the "first used in commerce" field on the application.

[Carl@Semroc]

One of the many nice things about the Semroc clones is that they use the original body tube sizes. Thanks Mario.

It has been important to us from the beginning to not substitute off-size parts. An ST-7 tube is different from a BT-20. It is 69% thicker and the ID is has an extra .005", so a "bulged" engine will usually fit in an ST-7 when it will not fit in a BT-20. The walls are three wraps of paper instead of two, so they are much stronger.

Many of our friends have original nose cones or body tubes from the early days. If they have an old BC-103 nose cone, they expect an ST-10 tube, not a BT-50 which is "close", but their nose cone will just fall through. A BT-55 is very close to a BT-56 (ST-13), but we have to stock both, because they are not interchangeable.

When we first started, we were going to try to "fool" our friends by using tubes that were close enough, but we have fixed all of those now (except the Sky Hook which is due.) Our first release of the Space Plane used the ST-7 instead of the BT-30 like the original did. The OD was only .008" smaller using the ST-7, but we have changed it recently to the BT-30. We had complaints that the earlier version using the ST-7 had cases where the engines did not eject quickly enough and blew the Space Planes apart. Imagine if we had used the BT-20 with walls only 60% as thick and a much tighter engine fit!

I think our friends are discerning enough that we could not substitute sizes just to keep our inventory down at their expense.

[Initiator001]

Carl,

I appreciate your efforts to keep the dimensions on your products as close to the original as possible.

Semroc has great products and customer service!

Now, only if my wallet felt the same way. :rolleyes:

Keep up the good work.

Bob

[Carl@Semroc]

I just noticed something interesting on the Semroc site.
Go to the "Classics 1953 - 1995" page. Then, hit the "Queue" button to see their upcoming kits.
17 out of the first 18 listed are the new Estes Classic Flyer re-issues! Coincidence?

On the Semroc Home Page they say:
"We are at a celebration and will resume shipping on October 20 (Monday.) More details this weekend..."
A celebration?
Maybe Semroc is handling the nose cone and fin fabrication for Estes. Just a thought - There is just too many ties here.


Hans "Chris' MichielssenChris,

I was updating the Classics pages when you saw that. I was marking them as Estes produced.

The celebration was for Walt Cunningham. Sorry we had to be so secretive about it, but Dot did not want him finding out the surprise aspects of it.

Semroc is not in any type of agreement with Estes Industries. Our friendship with Vern and Gleda would preclude that. Besides, the cost of balsa nose cones would be prohibitive for them with the quality level that is expected of us.

[Carl@Semroc]

You know the real difference between Semroc and Estes.

Semroc asks us to vote for what we want released . . . Estes tells us what they'll release. Which company is really listening to their customers?!Thanks Troy.

The minute we stop listening to our friends, we are gone! It is just survival. :D

[Carl@Semroc]

I am sorry for all the posts, but I have been away for a while.

It is good news for the hobby that Estes Industries realizes that balsa is good and the old designs from Centuri are great! That is what we have been saying for years. They are listening.

The most important thing they announced is that they have realized that "Made in the USA" is coming back in style. What a great time to start keeping the money and jobs here, among friends. Very encouraging.

[Eagle3]

... Imagine if we had used the BT-20 with walls only 60% as thick and a much tighter engine fit!



I'm guessing using a BT-30 would be the difference between a Flying Jenny that glides vs one that flies apart. :(

[toejrb]

Hee is the list of releases for the summer of 2009 from estes
BALSA nose cones, laser cut balsa fins, water slide decals

Coming Summer 2009 From Estes

3001 ARV Condor

3002 Aero Dart

3004 America

3005 Arrow 300

3006 Astron Nighthawk

3007 Astron Space Plane

3008 Astron X-Ray

3041 Bllue Bird Zero

3010 Eagle Power

3011 Egg Crate

3014 Fly8ing Saucer

3015 Groove Tube

3017 Micro Probe

3018 Mini Dactyl

3019 Nova

3020 Odyssey

3021 Optima

3023 Pegasus

3024 Phoenix Bird

3028 Sky Devil

3029 SST Shuttle

3030 Starship Vega

3032 Stellar Phonton Probe

3034 USS Ameerica

3035 -24 Bug
I'm surprised not to see the Star Trek USS Enterprise on this list, what with the new movie scheduled for release in May '09. Any rumors on whether that's going to be a bringback? Could be that Estes no longer has a Trek license, I suppose.

[Royatl]

I'm surprised not to see the Star Trek USS Enterprise on this list, what with the new movie scheduled for release in May '09. Any rumors on whether that's going to be a bringback? Could be that Estes no longer has a Trek license, I suppose.

That, and the last time they brought them out (1990 or so) they didn't really sell. The 1999 debacle with Star Wars merchandise can't have helped.

[Rocket Doctor]

Seventeen "Classic series" kits are scheduled for spring with another batch later on, and, your asking for Star wars????

The last batch of Star Wars hurt a lot of companies, from what I heard, there were over
6500 items available and some smaller companies went under.

The only one to make out on that was George Lucas............

[stefanj]

I kind of liked the design of the Flying Jar-Jar Binks rocket.

Of course, on the first flight it tumbled and killed my puppy.

(Note: The above is a joke. I do not want to start any rumors that go on for years and years.

So, for the record: There was no Jar-Jar Binks rocket.

Only a Jar-Jar Binks Cox inflatable hydrogen-powered camera airplane.

And my dog is just fine:

http://home.comcast.net/~stefan_jones/dead_ray.jpg
)

[scigs30]

I don't know if the Star Trek models would sell that well. I have bought about 6 of these rockets for an average price of 10 bucks. I am currently building one in the " projects" thread. This is a challenging but fun build and I should be posting pictures shortly.

[cas2047]

I don't know if the Star Trek models would sell that well.

I agree. I have a number of the Enterprise and Battle Cruiser kits. So far I've built one of each. The average cost per kit coming in around $10 per kit, same as you.

I've wondered why they sell for so little. The only thing that I can think is that people are put off by the difficulty of building kits with so many vacu-form parts. I've also heard that Estes sold a ton of these kits, but if that's true I'm wondering why I haven't seen more builds on EMRR... They look great when complete and they both do fly, the Cruiser better than the Enterprise.

Anyway I really like both, and they are both challengine but completely doable projects. I'm looking forward to your build pics. :)

[motley16]

Seventeen "Classic series" kits are scheduled for spring with another batch later on, and, your asking for Star wars????

The last batch of Star Wars hurt a lot of companies, from what I heard, there were over
6500 items available and some smaller companies went under.

The only one to make out on that was George Lucas............
With the estes reputation and the economy what it is when is spring to a company like estes? Also when is later on? Can you give us a month that these kits will hit store shelves? :)

[cas2047]

Seventeen "Classic series" kits are scheduled for spring with another batch later on, and, your asking for Star wars????

The last batch of Star Wars hurt a lot of companies, from what I heard, there were over
6500 items available and some smaller companies went under.

The only one to make out on that was George Lucas............

I don't think he was asking about Star Wars, wasn't he asking about Star Trek? The are two different series.

I believe it was the Star Wars batch, as you correctly indicate, that flooded the market with a lot of plastic junk, some of which doesn't even fly.

I'm not sure if the Star Trek series sold well or if it was oversold, but the products themselves i.e. The U.S.S. Enterprise and the Klingon Battle Cruiser are very nice builders kits that make respectable looking rockets in my humble opinion.

[Rocket Doctor]

With the estes reputation and the economy what it is when is spring to a company like estes? Also when is later on? Can you give us a month that these kits will hit store shelves? :)

If a company is trying very hard to be in compliance with the new CPSC "lead" regulation that will go into effect on February 10th, in my opinion, it's not the reputation that is at stake, rather, compliance.

If a company planned on releasing product at a certain time of year, and, they are now required to comply with federal regulations, then, you have to be patient while the company is doing it's best to comply......agree.

If the projected release date is off by a couple of months, then, you con't blame it on "reputation" rather, a company trying to do what they are required to do.

All good things take time.

Thjis is my personal opinion, and, I'm not a spokesperson for Estes...........

[motley16]

If a company is trying very hard to be in compliance with the new CPSC "lead" regulation that will go into effect on February 10th, in my opinion, it's not the reputation that is at stake, rather, compliance.

If a company planned on releasing product at a certain time of year, and, they are now required to comply with federal regulations, then, you have to be patient while the company is doing it's best to comply......agree.

If the projected release date is off by a couple of months, then, you con't blame it on "reputation" rather, a company trying to do what they are required to do.

All good things take time.

Thjis is my personal opinion, and, I'm not a spokesperson for Estes...........
So "regulations" will be to blame for the release date being off by a couple of months? These "regulations" were anounced when? To start 2/10/09. The thing is no new products hit he stores in 08. Not like they should have for such a big year. Now we are all less than patient for new product.

[Rocket Doctor]

So "regulations" will be to blame for the release date being off by a couple of months? These "regulations" were anounced when? To start 2/10/09. The thing is no new products hit he stores in 08. Not like they should have for such a big year. Now we are all less than patient for new product.


Many companies will be SHOCKED when they are NOT in compliance and the feds come after them.

Testing cost's thousands of bucks, and for large companies such as Mattel and Hasbro, they can absorb such high costs.

Remember the holdiay season of 2007, Mattel was forced to take most of their inventory off the shelves because of contamination.


Not, it's a reality, Feb 10th is the first date of compliance and Aug 10th the second phase.

We shouldn't blame anyone if they are working ahrd to comply with the feds. It's either com0pliance, or, no goods.

This is no excuse, just facts on the compliance of HR4040 and the feds.

This is my opinion...........

[Initiator001]

It looks like the CPSC is delaying this regulation...


http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14215.html


Bob