Something is afoot at Semroc...

[Vanel]

Whole buncha "classic" nose cones and a few "classic" body tubes have appeared on the web site.

Methinks Carl is up to something mighty fine...

Methinks I'm about to go broke :rolleyes:

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Whole buncha "classic" nose cones and a few "classic" body tubes have appeared on the web site.

Methinks Carl is up to something mighty fine...

Methinks I'm about to go broke :rolleyes:

Aye. There's an ill wind blowing through my wallet.

I've officially been broke for about a month now. It's as bad as you ever imagined. :mad:

[SEL]

Aye. There's an ill wind blowing through my wallet.

I've officially been broke for about a month now. It's as bad as you ever imagined. :mad:


As long as Carl doesn't start assigning production numbers to nose cones and tubes , I'll be alright...

[rraeford]

Too late, I went there to order a few pieces and wound up...well...broke.

rraeford

[ghrocketman]

If you type the word "kit" in the search box on the Semroc site, it will show you all the "coming soon" kits in addition to the available ones.
One item to note is that the Centuri/Enerjet Aero-Dart is coming soon !

[Eagle3]

Sneaky.... I love it. :)

I see the MX-774 listed.

[snaquin]

Yes Sir! :D

Fun stuff is in the works!

[Green Dragon]

hmm.. few observations and comments ...

Lots of new addition to the Semroc ' vote for your classic' list...hmmm... "=)

Seems Carl's 'holding out ' on us , though, since new additions include NCR models from the mid 80's ( glad the catalog I sent helped, lol :-) , but also has the Astro Dynamics & Eagle Aerospace (early hpr) kits on that voting list.
( items that I've been 'begging for' plans / info on :-) .... * begs more* ... ( will loan my FSI Nike kits for AstroDynamics info ? ;-) .....

also, on the topic of the 'classic' tubes arriving ( jumps up and down happily, order just placed for 'FSI' 21mm tubes .(which hopefully fit our 22mm reload motors, same as the vintage FSI tubing does. :-)

anyways, noting the listing of the BT11 (1.13" FSI spec tubing ), can we please ask / beg Carl to NOT use that for FSI retro-repro kits, especially for motor mounts.. as they will NOT fit 29mm motors :-(

use for such as the OSO (my fave FSI kit), would be ok, assuming it was intended to fly on the E9,etc (as the SLS kits, which do not reccommend any big motors, iirc). then would need a 24mm mount ,so not a true 'clone' .

will wait impatiently for the kits either way ( and vote as other 'teasers' are listed :-)

~ AL

[Carl@Semroc]

hmm.. few observations and comments ...

Lots of new addition to the Semroc ' vote for your classic' list...hmmm... "=)

Seems Carl's 'holding out ' on us , though, since new additions include NCR models from the mid 80's ( glad the catalog I sent helped, lol :-) , but also has the Astro Dynamics & Eagle Aerospace (early hpr) kits on that voting list.
( items that I've been 'begging for' plans / info on :-) .... * begs more* ... ( will loan my FSI Nike kits for AstroDynamics info ? ;-) .....

also, on the topic of the 'classic' tubes arriving ( jumps up and down happily, order just placed for 'FSI' 21mm tubes .(which hopefully fit our 22mm reload motors, same as the vintage FSI tubing does. :-)

anyways, noting the listing of the BT11 (1.13" FSI spec tubing ), can we please ask / beg Carl to NOT use that for FSI retro-repro kits, especially for motor mounts.. as they will NOT fit 29mm motors :-(

use for such as the OSO (my fave FSI kit), would be ok, assuming it was intended to fly on the E9,etc (as the SLS kits, which do not reccommend any big motors, iirc). then would need a 24mm mount ,so not a true 'clone' .

will wait impatiently for the kits either way ( and vote as other 'teasers' are listed :-)

~ ALAbout the votes... The original intention was to help us prioritize releases based on level of interest. "Vote" is probably not the best word. I don't have any information on the Astro and Eagle kits except that listed. Sure would be great if there was more information available.

Yes, Thanks for the 86 NCR catalog! Helps fill in some blanks on the "renamed kits."

The FSI tubes... The HRT-8 tubes are listed in most of their catalogs from 1974 to 1994 as .903" I.D. and .921" O.D (.009" wall.) The ones I have are .885" I.D. and .921" O.D.( .018" wall) In the price list in the 1984 catalog they state it is .888" I.D. but in the body it is still listed as .903" for ten more years. The centering rings are sometimes listed as .875". Since there was so much conflict in the catalogs, we went with actual measured sizes. Their 21mm engines are actually about .840" max.

The HRT-10 tubes are almost always listed as 1.13"I.D. and 1.17"O.D. and that matches measured dimensions, so that is the sizes we have. Although they were designed for their 27 mm engines (about 1.07" max) they do fit the Dr Rocket 29mm casings and Aerotech consumer casing. Label on the Aerotech casing and Econojet engines make them not fit. In 1984, FSI introduced the HT-114 tube identical to Centuri LT-115 and our LT-115 for 29mm engines, but I have not seen it used in any kits.

When they finally introduced 18mm tubes, they were listed as having an I.D. of .175" (obviously a transposition), .715", and .718".

We will probably provide 18mm and 24mm mounts for all the FSI kits as appropriate. It is unlikely we will ever see 21mm and 27 mm engines again from the "big guys."

Sorry this turned into such a long post, but it should answer several questions down the road.

[barone]

We will probably provide 18mm and 24mm mounts for all the FSI kits as appropriate. It is unlikely we will ever see 21mm and 27 mm engines again from the "big guys."



Carl,

Eagerly awaiting. But, for some of the larger kits (Intrepid for example), please consider an option for 29mm. Thanks.

Don
NAR 53455

[Green Dragon]

[QUOTE=Carl@Semroc]About the votes... The original intention was to help us prioritize >releases based on level of interest. "Vote" is probably not the best word.

- well, hopefully it has helped you to guage interest ( and people haven't stuffed the ballot box much ) .
would be great to see some of those old classics return .

> I don't have any information on the Astro and Eagle kits except that listed. Sure would be >great if there was more information available.

too true - I had catalogs from both way back, they were 'loaned' to our club library, and when the club dried up the president kept all the items, including a large collection of catalogs,vintage kit panels,instructions,etc :-(

The Astro / Eagle kits were really rather generic hpr stuff, but of interest due to being the 'beginnning'

>Yes, Thanks for the 86 NCR catalog! Helps fill in some blanks on the "renamed kits."

no problem :-)

>The FSI tubes... The HRT-8 tubes are listed in most of their catalogs from 1974 to 1994 >as .903" I.D. and .921" O.D (.009" wall.) The ones I have are .885" I.D. and .921" O.D.
>( .018" wall) In the price list in the 1984 catalog they state it is .888" I.D. but in the body >it is still listed as .903" for ten more years. The centering rings are sometimes listed >as .875". Since there was so much conflict in the catalogs, we went with actual measured >sizes. Their 21mm engines are actually about .840" max.

hmm. I've always seen the tubing listed as the .903, never actually sat down and miced one .
I know the FSI engines are / were real loose in thier tubes, but a .875" (22mm) casing will fit prefectly into the vintage FSI tubes I have.
in fact I am running out of tubing, due to using for mounts in test rockets for our 22mm motors ( both DPS/Thunderflame, and myself (as Green Dragon) offer 22mm releoad casings for the exp composite market, also the micro hybrid I've seen on various sites is 22mm.
so, having a tube it fits would be nice - if yours are truly .885. that leaves .010 clearance, might be ok but tight, generally .015 would be ok, so might not be too bad ( will wait and see when I get the tubes I ordered :-)


>The HRT-10 tubes are almost always listed as 1.13"I.D. and 1.17"O.D. and that matches >measured dimensions, so that is the sizes we have. Although they were designed for their >27 mm engines (about 1.07" max) they do fit the Dr Rocket 29mm casings and Aerotech >consumer casing. Label on the Aerotech casing and Econojet engines make them not fit.

the 1.13 tubes will fit reload casings (and maybe old Vulcan motors) but will NOT fit Aerotech single use.
it's not always the labels, but the fact that Aerotech uses a true 29mm (not 1.125") casing, which is 1.13" as shown here : http://www.rocketmotorparts.com/

>When they finally introduced 18mm tubes, they were listed as having an I.D. of .175"
>(obviously a transposition), .715", and .718".

the FSI 18mm tubes I have are real close to ST7, not quite as thick walled as the tubes AAA offered.
I used the last four FSI tubes I had rebuilding my Mini Allegro (Ace version,as copied / sold by NCR - on your vote list, and a nice kit,too :-) , could mic those but really no need to worry about when so close to the ST7 already in stock :-)

>We will probably provide 18mm and 24mm mounts for all the FSI kits as appropriate.

that would make them more 'flyable' than the odd-sized mounts .

> It is unlikely we will ever see 21mm and 27 mm engines again from the "big guys."

:-(

* goes off in corner and cries *

>Sorry this turned into such a long post, but it should answer several questions down the >road

long is good, and answers are better :-)

thanks for not only all the good parts, but for listening / giving US feedback as well

~ AL

[Vanel]

Estes-sized body tubes and some new balsa cones (e.g., BNC-80D) available for sale on the Semroc web site...

Hoping that the Mars Lander will appear soon ;)

[snaquin]

I noticed the BNC-55AC Secant Ogive was there as well

[ghrocketman]

The Mars Lander is there now as a "coming soon" if one knows how to look for it. ;)
http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/RocketKits.asp?SKU=KV-54


Many K-29 Saturn 1B parts have been added, such as all the tubes.
Including the BT-3 for the escape tower spike along with the BT-3 nose & tail cone ! :D
Unfortunately the actual Apollo Capsule, centering rings and wraps are not there yet...mebbe still some hope for X-Mas though.

[Vanel]

In an interesting turn of events, the number of kits offered by Semroc on their website has decreased by 1, down to 59. Looks like "The Boid" is no longer with us.

And yes, I check Semroc's site daily :p - I'm eagerly anticipating the arrival of the 1B!

[ghrocketman]

Looks like still no BT-63 for the 1B yet though....
I'm very anxiously awaiting the arrival of the 1B, LJ II, V2, Mars Lander, and Apollo Capsule too !

[snaquin]

In an interesting turn of events, the number of kits offered by Semroc on their website has decreased by 1, down to 59. Looks like "The Boid" is no longer with us.

And yes, I check Semroc's site daily :p - I'm eagerly anticipating the arrival of the 1B!

I can't go there every day because when I search kits that SLS Aero-Dart kit keeps teasing me for $30 ..... and when Carl kits the Hustler I'm going to need one of those too.

I doubt my $100 gift certificate will hold out for much of 2006 with so many good things scheduled for release.

[ghrocketman]

I put together a clone of the Centuri Hustler just before X-Mas using all Semroc parts.
I have been waiting for that Aero Dart ever since it was added to the "coming soon" list.
I have tried to get info on this one to no avail.
I'd like to know if it is the '66-'71 version or the 1972 version, or the 1965 version.
I'm assuming it is the 66-71 version; I have already cloned the 1972 version.

I also built a Enerjet Athena clone this year and have the parts to bulid another.

Hopefully all these kits (especially the K-29 Saturn 1B clone) will come out earlier rather than later 2006.

[stefanj]

I ordered the parts for a Lil' Hustler during the big 50% off sale.

I'm a little suspicious of the 5 1/2" length given for the payload tube in the Ye Olde Rocket Plans addendum. Can anyone confirm this figure?

I plan on building the model with "through the wall" fins. The tab wouldn't amount to more than a 1/8" stub, but this would still add a lot of strength.

[snaquin]

I put together a clone of the Centuri Hustler just before X-Mas using all Semroc parts.
I have been waiting for that Aero Dart ever since it was added to the "coming soon" list.
I have tried to get info on this one to no avail.
I'd like to know if it is the '66-'71 version or the 1972 version, or the 1965 version.
I'm assuming it is the 66-71 version; I have already cloned the 1972 version.

I also built a Enerjet Athena clone this year and have the parts to bulid another.

Hopefully all these kits (especially the K-29 Saturn 1B clone) will come out earlier rather than later 2006.

I placed a Semroc parts order just prior to Christmas and I was going to order all of the Hustler parts from the "Classic Kits" page but I'm just going to wait until Carl kits it so I'll have the laser cut through the wall fins and slotted airframe tube. I could cut them on my saw in the garage and tab them and slot the tube so just blame my delay on sheer laziness :rolleyes:

Hard to tell what version the Semroc Aero Dart will be since no parts are listed yet and I haven't inquired about that one yet. I hope it turns out to the the 72 EnerJet version like you cloned with the Orion nose cone, that's my favorite version. From a recent email conversation I had with Carl he had informed me that the SLS line except for the SLS Laser-X has been very slow to catch on, so they moved out the Aero-Dart, Hustler, and Lil' Hustler until it picks up :(

As far as the Athena did you use the fin pattern from the Orion and cut four from that pattern? I've never been able to find a pattern for the EnerJet Athena. When Carl releases the K-29 Saturn 1B it will certainly make the wrap needed to clone the Athena a lot easier to get as well, although I remember Paul Graf had full sets of the 1B wraps for sale for around $15

[snaquin]

I ordered the parts for a Lil' Hustler during the big 50% off sale.

I'm a little suspicious of the 5 1/2" length given for the payload tube in the Ye Olde Rocket Plans addendum. Can anyone confirm this figure?

I plan on building the model with "through the wall" fins. The tab wouldn't amount to more than a 1/8" stub, but this would still add a lot of strength.

Looking at those plans and based on the payload capacity claims in the plans of 1.75D x 4.25L, I come up with 6.125" length for the payload tube. The nose cone and transition shoulders measured from a print out of the scan collectively take up 1.875" + 4.25L payload capacity.

6.125" would be my "best guess" estimate based solely on that plan set.

[ghrocketman]

Carl has laser cut fins for the Athena on the Semroc website as well as all the parts to clone it except the wraps; see the link below.
http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/ClassicParts.asp?ID=561

The 1/70 scale K-29 Saturn 1B wrap will not be really correct for the Athena as the original used trimmed 1/100 scale Centuri Saturn wraps (as did the Orion)
I got a set of Orion II wraps from Neubauer for my Athena; these were slightly large as the Orion II was a slight upscale version of the original Orion (2.6" tube instead of 2"). I think you may still be able to get them from Neubauer; this is the only available wrap I know of that is even close to original.

The Athena and the Centurion use the same fin pattern but the Athena fins are thicker balsa.

One word of caution: if you insist on having an accurate plastic cone for the Athena and '72 Aero Dart, the only place I know of to get it is Moldin Oldies. I have one on an Aero Dart and Athena Clone. While these cones have the molded in panel lines for authenticity, they are in my opinion very fragile for flight. When my Athena and Aero-Dart Fly, I switch over to the Semroc Balsa Nose cone which has the correct profile & is MUCH more durable.

Here ia a link to the Orion/Athena plastic cone:
http://moldinoldies.rocketshoppe.com/images/pnc-231.jpg

Balsa Athena cone from Semroc:
http://www.semroc.com/Store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=702

As an added side note, I think Carl may have found that the SLS kits would have been real barn burners if he would have launched the line with the Aero-Dart, Hustler, Little Hustler, and Athena. From the comments I have read, there are tons of BARs that can't wait to get their hands on these. While I really enjoy my SLS Scorpion and Jaguar, I have not ever heard anyone extremely excited about them like I have for the other kits I mentioned.

I really think Carl will be pleasantly surprised when he launches the Hustler and Aero-Dart.


Incidentally, I did not use through the wall fin construction on my Hustler, Aero-Dart, or Athena; I used properly prepared fins/tubes (well sanded for good adhesion) and I drilled the fin-tube joint with several 1/16" holes to form "glue rivets", as well as good 4hr cure epoxy fillets. While the Hustler and athena have yet to fly, the Aero-Dart has performed well on a variety of BP Engines and Composite RMS loads, without any hint of a fin separation.

[Bob H]

I like my SLS Skyhook well enough. I like the heavy walled slotted tubes and the laser cut basswood fins so it should be real durable but the size of it isn't much different than a lot of models on the market. I can't see myself using anything larger than a 24mm BP motor in it.

The SLS Laser-X on the other hand is excellent. The size of it is more in line of what I expected from the SLS line. The interchangable motor mount is designed real well. I'm hoping that future SLS models are larger than the current offerings and designed to use the interchangable motor mounts as well.

[ghrocketman]

I like the interchangeable motor mmt of the SLS Laser X, but it (Laser X) is a design I have never warmed up to.

I probably never will use larger than a 24mm motor in my Scorpion or Jaguar either unless someone starts making 29mm D engines.

[Bob H]

I like the interchangeable motor mmt of the SLS Laser X, but it (Laser X) is a design I have never warmed up to.

I probably never will use larger than a 24mm motor in my Scorpion or Jaguar either unless someone starts making 29mm D engines.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that most of the SLS line are upscales of small models so that even in a larger size, they are not big models. An Estes Big Bertha is larger than my SLS Skyhook although the Skyhook is much higher quality.

I'll still pick up a Scorpion and probably a Jaguar but like the Skyhook, I'll just glue the 24mm mount in.

What I would like to see is a model made with the tubing used in the Laser-X so that the interchangable motor mounts can be used in multiple models.

[snaquin]

Carl has laser cut fins for the Athena on the Semroc website as well as all the parts to clone it except the wraps; see the link below.
http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/ClassicParts.asp?ID=561

The 1/70 scale K-29 Saturn 1B wrap will not be really correct for the Athena as the original used trimmed 1/100 scale Centuri Saturn wraps (as did the Orion)
I got a set of Orion II wraps from Neubauer for my Athena; these were slightly large as the Orion II was a slight upscale version of the original Orion (2.6" tube instead of 2"). I think you may still be able to get them from Neubauer; this is the only available wrap I know of that is even close to original.

The Athena and the Centurion use the same fin pattern but the Athena fins are thicker balsa.

One word of caution: if you insist on having an accurate plastic cone for the Athena and '72 Aero Dart, the only place I know of to get it is Moldin Oldies. I have one on an Aero Dart and Athena Clone. While these cones have the molded in panel lines for authenticity, they are in my opinion very fragile for flight. When my Athena and Aero-Dart Fly, I switch over to the Semroc Balsa Nose cone which has the correct profile & is MUCH more durable.

Here ia a link to the Orion/Athena plastic cone:
http://moldinoldies.rocketshoppe.com/images/pnc-231.jpg

Balsa Athena cone from Semroc:
http://www.semroc.com/Store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=702

As an added side note, I think Carl may have found that the SLS kits would have been real barn burners if he would have launched the line with the Aero-Dart, Hustler, Little Hustler, and Athena. From the comments I have read, there are tons of BARs that can't wait to get their hands on these. While I really enjoy my SLS Scorpion and Jaguar, I have not ever heard anyone extremely excited about them like I have for the other kits I mentioned.

I really think Carl will be pleasantly surprised when he launches the Hustler and Aero-Dart.


Incidentally, I did not use through the wall fin construction on my Hustler, Aero-Dart, or Athena; I used properly prepared fins/tubes (well sanded for good adhesion) and I drilled the fin-tube joint with several 1/16" holes to form "glue rivets", as well as good 4hr cure epoxy fillets. While the Hustler and athena have yet to fly, the Aero-Dart has performed well on a variety of BP Engines and Composite RMS loads, without any hint of a fin separation.


Well first thanks for all the great info and links for the Athena. I do appreciate that. I don't know how I overlooked that link to the Athena parts on the Semroc site but somehow I did. I had read somewhere that others had used the Saturn 1B wraps but didn't realize they were not close to the originals. Glad you caught that. I do want to do an Athena build so I saved all the info from your post above. I like your idea about the Semroc cone for flight and the Moldin Oldies cone for display.

Do you have any pictures of your finished Athena? I searched the forum and found your build thread for the Athena but didn't find any images here.

I agree with you that if Carl had launched the SLS kit line with the Hustler, Little Hustler, Athena and Aero-Dart kits first, well lets just say there goes my $100 gift certificate and my wife asking why there is another box from Semroc by the front door :D

If I get tired of waiting for the kit releases and I'm ready for another project I'll probably just build them from the plans and parts sets and get some input from you guys.

[stefanj]

As an added side note, I think Carl may have found that the SLS kits would have been real barn burners if he would have launched the line with the Aero-Dart, Hustler, Little Hustler, and Athena. From the comments I have read, there are tons of BARs that can't wait to get their hands on these. While I really enjoy my SLS Scorpion and Jaguar, I have not ever heard anyone extremely excited about them like I have for the other kits I mentioned.

I really think Carl will be pleasantly surprised when he launches the Hustler and Aero-Dart.

I think the folks who remember these models will be very interested. (Gary Fillible's eyes bugged out when he saw the Hustler I recreated.) But they are probably fewer in number compared to the number who recall (for example) the Laser-X. Also, the Mini-Max age kits don't have quite the wow factor of big scale kits liike the Saturn Ib.

One thing in the favor of the Huster and Aero-Dart (and Lil' Hustler, and Explorer) is that they are SIMPLE. Tube, fins, transition, cone. Except for the motor mounts, it is all there already.

Incidentally, I did not use through the wall fin construction on my Hustler, Aero-Dart, or Athena; I used properly prepared fins/tubes (well sanded for good adhesion) and I drilled the fin-tube joint with several 1/16" holes to form "glue rivets", as well as good 4hr cure epoxy fillets. While the Hustler and athena have yet to fly, the Aero-Dart has performed well on a variety of BP Engines and Composite RMS loads, without any hint of a fin separation.

I did all that on my Aero-Dart and Hustler, and still would have gone with TTY if I had to do it again. The problem isn't FLIGHT durability, it is holding up to landings and transportation / storage. Those big fins give plenty of leverage for joint-snapping action.

One thing you could do to move things along:

Build a few of the Mini-Max models from Semroc parts and write an article for EMSS!

[Tau Zero]

I [snip] still would have gone with TTW(?) if I had to do it again. The problem isn't FLIGHT durability, it is holding up to landings and transportation / storage. Those big fins give plenty of leverage for joint-snapping action. :eek: Indeed! Case in point:

http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/kits/sem_sls_javelin.html


Cheers,

--Jay