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View Full Version : Help? No Hangtag years at Estes?


gerryfortin
02-14-2009, 10:06 AM
Sorry if this question has been previously asked and answered. I wish to refine the Estes Kit database and include separate listings for early K-x kits with no hangtags. Can I assume that Estes produced the K-x kits without hangtags until 1968? Any comments or guidance to a reference source would be appreciated.

Thanks

Gerry

gerryfortin
02-20-2009, 12:40 AM
I'm really surprised that no one has responded to this question. Maybe the yellow hangtags originated in 1969 or 1970 rather than 1968. Confirmation would be appreciated.

blackshire
02-20-2009, 05:06 AM
Sorry if this question has been previously asked and answered. I wish to refine the Estes Kit database and include separate listings for early K-x kits with no hangtags. Can I assume that Estes produced the K-x kits without hangtags until 1968? Any comments or guidance to a reference source would be appreciated.

Thanks

Gerry

I don't know what you mean by the term "hangtag." My father was an excellent modeler but also a procrastinator (he took 20 years to build a plastic Ford Tri-motor airplane kit!).

In the early-to-mid 1970s he built two K-series Estes kits (Falcon and Gyroc) that he had bought in the late 1960s, and he also had a Gemini-Titan II that he never got around to building. These kits did not have the 1970s-era red/white, yellow/white, blue/white, or green/white front cards with the "shock waves" of those colors streaming from the illustrations of the rockets, but they did have folded-over and stapled-on printed cardboard "bag toppers" with punched holes to hang on the hooks at the hobby shop. Is that what you mean by "hangtag?" (In each of these kits, a panel of the instructions sheet with an illustration of the rocket served as the "kit card.")

mojo1986
02-20-2009, 09:37 AM
I have seen a pictorial history of Estes hangtags associated with their years of use, but I can't remember where. I'm certain that someone on this forum posted it a couple years ago. Hopefully that person will read your post and provide the information once again.

To the best of my recollection, Estes used a side-gusset bag (vertical fold at each side of the bag) with no hangtag until about 1966-67. The artwork for the kit was printed on one face of the folded instructions. See photo #1 below.

In about 1967 Estes began sealing their classic yellow hangtag to the top of the bag so that they could punch a hole for pegboard display of their kits in hobby shops. Artwork still on the instructions. The bags did not have a side gusset. Estes never used staples to attach the hangtag (Centuri used staples to close the tops of their early kit bags, but did not use a hangtag, preferring to simply punch the holes through the top of the bag and the art card insert). See photo #2.

In about 1970-71 Estes went to a redesigned Damon hangtag. During this period the use of an art card insert commenced. See photo #3. This particular hangtag also appeared in a much rarer red version. From this time on there were a number of redesigns, including the 'Countdown' hangtag, the black/white 'Free Kit' hangtag, and, starting in the mid-seventies, the 'Skill Level' packaging (color matched art card insert and hangtag) that Black Shire alluded to in his post. See photo #4.

I have also seen a few Estes kits sealed in non-gusset bags with no hangtag. I'm not sure whether these appeared after the gusset bags were discontinued but before the new yellow hangtags arrived, or simply at some later date when hangtags were temporarily unavailable. These kits were obviously produced for only a short period as they are quite rare (sorry, no photo).

I'm going by memory here, so the dates are not precise. Hopefully someone can nail the dates more accurately.

Joe

lurker01
02-20-2009, 09:58 AM
I have seen a pictorial history of Estes hangtags associated with their years of use, but I can't remember where. I'm certain that someone on this forum posted it a couple years ago. Hopefully that person will read your post and provide the information once again.

To the best of my recollection, Estes used a side-gusset bag (vertical fold at each side of the bag) with no hangtag until about 1966-67. The artwork for the kit was printed on one face of the folded instructions. See photo #1 below.

In about 1967 Estes began sealing their classic yellow hangtag to the top of the bag so that they could punch a hole for pegboard display of their kits in hobby shops. The bags did not have a side gusset. Estes never used staples to attach the hangtag (Centuri used staples to close the tops of their early kit bags, but did not use a hangtag, preferring to simply punch the holes through the top of the bag and the art card insert). See photo #2.

In about 1970-71 Estes went to a redesigned Damon hangtag. See photo #3. This particular hangtag also appeared in a much rarer red version. From this time on there were a number of redesigns, including the 'Countdown' hangtag, the black/white 'Free Kit' hangtag, and, starting in the mid-seventies, the 'Skill Level' packaging (color matched art card insert and hangtag) that Black Shire alluded to in his post. See photo #4.

I have also seen a few Estes kits sealed in non-gusset bags with no hangtag. I'm not sure whether these appeared after the gusset bags were discontinued but before the new yellow hangtags arrived, or simply at some later date when hangtags were temporarily unavailable. These kits were obviously produced for only a short period as they are quite rare (sorry, no photo).

I'm going by memory here, so the dates are not precise. Hopefully someone can nail the dates more accurately.

Joe

Joe,

I beg to differ with you. Estes did use staples as I have a couple of their Star Trek kits from 1975 that have a thick cardboard hag tag folded over and stapled into the plastic.

The Estes .049 Helicopter: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes75/75estb.html

Also has a thick plastic mylar bag and uses the same thick card board that is folded over the top of the bag and stapled.


The hang tag site went away a few years back. It was nice because it matched the type of tag with the date.

I will end this responce and try to answer the original question.

Bob

lurker01
02-20-2009, 10:16 AM
Sorry if this question has been previously asked and answered. I wish to refine the Estes Kit database and include separate listings for early K-x kits with no hangtags. Can I assume that Estes produced the K-x kits without hangtags until 1968? Any comments or guidance to a reference source would be appreciated.

Thanks

Gerry

Gerry,

Joe did a fantastic job with pictures answering the question, but Estes did in fact use 'hang-tag-less' packaging into the early 1970s. Remember the Firecat? That was bagged and sold just like the early 60s kits. A few of the MRN kits they sold were package similar. For the most part, 90%+ of the kits were sold with some variation of a hangtag.

Hangtag-less through 1968, K-Kits sold through 1972/73 as supplies finally ran out, 74 ~ 78 hang tags changed and I think Estes was experimenting with packaging probably to save money and make the rockets more attractive on the hooks. Then hangtags through the 80s and 90s, and then late 90s kits went tagless in some areas:

Re-release of the 2.6 diameter V-2 and Maxi-Alpha III and the like.

Actually the history of Estes packaging is easier to define then that of Centuri... just wait until you start tackling that area!!!! :rolleyes:

Cenuri did use handtags after they were bought by Damon. Then there are packages variations with the same kit:

Early Saturn V in black box with color phots, or the Sat V in the white cardboard box with Apollo 17 night lauch on the front... OK color to white to save money... but how do you explain first year Apollo Little Joe II KS-8 in white box with read/white/blue label on the ends, then being sold at the end in a blue colored box with photos; opposite of what the Sat V packaging went through. Then Stellar kits sold in boxes then bags, and Energet kits sold first in bags, then boxes, then back to bags ... its cRaZy I tell you! :D

Bob

mojo1986
02-20-2009, 01:45 PM
Bob, thanks for your input. I hope others will add what they know to help Gerry upgrade his database.

Joe

gerryfortin
02-21-2009, 03:02 AM
Bob and Joe,

Thank you for the information and insight. I do need to reread the posts and digest for awhile. Separating the catalog kit listings into hangtag type vs. years issues will take some effort and diligence.

I did manage to secure some hangtag information and years issued from http://web.archive.org/web/20050619081405/http://www.model-rockets.com/estes.htm which covers pre 1970, then 1970 onward.

After returning home in a week's time, I planned to photogragh the wide range of hangtag on kits in my collection and attempt to build a reference link with images and estimated date ranges for each style hangtag. We need this reference if the database is to be further separate into hangtag types. To be frank, I need the reference to be able to attribute the kits on eBay and place the prices realized into the correct spot in the database. The Alpha kits are already difficult to handle.

thanks again for the help......this is indeed an addicting project

Ltvscout
02-21-2009, 09:50 AM
I did manage to secure some hangtag information and years issued from http://web.archive.org/web/20050619081405/http://www.model-rockets.com/estes.htm which covers pre 1970, then 1970 onward.
Ah, you beat me to it. I was going to use the Wayback machine myself this weekend for you to get you the link to Mike's old site.

I think Mike has an account here, but I don't recall his handle.

lurker01
02-26-2009, 08:57 AM
Bob and Joe,

Thank you for the information and insight. I do need to reread the posts and digest for awhile. Separating the catalog kit listings into hangtag type vs. years issues will take some effort and diligence.

I did manage to secure some hangtag information and years issued from http://web.archive.org/web/20050619081405/http://www.model-rockets.com/estes.htm which covers pre 1970, then 1970 onward.

After returning home in a week's time, I planned to photogragh the wide range of hangtag on kits in my collection and attempt to build a reference link with images and estimated date ranges for each style hangtag. We need this reference if the database is to be further separate into hangtag types. To be frank, I need the reference to be able to attribute the kits on eBay and place the prices realized into the correct spot in the database. The Alpha kits are already difficult to handle.

thanks again for the help......this is indeed an addicting project

Gerry,

Great that you retrieved that link! That was the one I was refering too. I will save off the HTML and images and perhaps update it with even more examples.

Bob