Large quantity vintage Estes, Centuri, Cox engines and others

[muddyshoes]

Engines have been sold.

Thank you,

Ron

================
Hi all,

I've just finished selling off my kit collection on eBay. The one thing I couldn't sell of course, was my collection of engines. Despite trying calling them everything from "go tubes" to "woosh generators" the auctions on eBay were cancelled... I was just trying to sell them to pay my bills.

My concern isn't so much selling as it is with shipping. Calls to the USPS and UPS were met with "i don't knows" when I tried to explain what it was I was trying to ship. So at this point, legally, I have no idea what the regulations are with trying to ship these if someone buys them.

The link at the bottom of this post will take you to my Craigslist ad. I'm selling approximately 49 boxes/packages of vintage Estes, Cox and Centuri engines *PLUS* a pile of loose engines all dating from the mid 60s to early 80s.

I've had them for about 10 years and they have been stored in plastic bins since I've had them. Included are 4 packs of rare Estes "E" engines which were discontinued because they tended to CATO on the pad. I don't recommend using them because of their age and the unknown conditions in which they were kept prior to my getting them.

I have not personally inspected each and every box but my asking price is very reasonable for the quantity of engines I'm selling. I'll be glad to answer any questions as accurately as I can.

Thank you.

Ron Jaffe

Link to Craigslist Ad:

http://orlando.craigslist.org/tag/1050669152.html

[Ltvscout]

I've just finished selling off my kit collection on eBay. The one thing I couldn't sell of course, was my collection of engines. Despite trying calling them everything from "go tubes" to "woosh generators" the auctions on eBay were cancelled... I was just trying to sell them to pay my bills.
Ron,

Do you have a list of the sizes/types of the engines you have?

I'll be down in FL at the end of the month (Ft. Myers Beach) and may be interested.

Also, you're welcome to post the "ad" here at Ye Olde Rocket Auction. You can set a fixed price or open it for auction. Like craigslist, it's free. The upside is that everyone that hits the site is interested in rocketry related items.

You can get to it here:

http://www.rocketshoppe.com/cgi-bin/auction.pl

[MKP]

Yep, your best bet is to sell them locally. The gov'ment doesn't make it easy to ship these things.

[Bob Kaplow]

Ebay won't let you sell them because there's no legal way for you to ship them to the buyer. Local sales and personal delivery is really your only option. For more details, see the document on shipping rocket motors on the NAR web page in the filing cabinet.

I understand that fines can be $5000 for illegally / improperly shipping hazmat. I've already nailed an Amazon affiliate who said of illegal shipping "Who cares?" I'll bet now he does. Don't try it!

[muddyshoes]

Thank you all for your shipping advice. Fortunately, I've received several emails from folks within the state that are interested. If there is no definite buyer, then I'll list in detail on the rocket auction. But they'll have to be local for pickup I'm afraid. Last thing I want is for the Men in Black to come knocking on my door.

There are some strange looking engines in the lot...one of them is an 18mm engine that is bright red with no printing and white ceramic outlet. No idea what it is. Always wanted to launch it and see what happens. Also some engines that are larger and longer than original Estes "E" engines, and some others I've never seen anywhere else.

Ron

[ghrocketman]

I just love it when someone thinks they have to play "shipment cop". :rolleyes:
I know it is not legal but I do not see why just anyone cannot label boxes "for ground shipment only". This law allowing some to ship this way and not all is seemingly nonsensical.
That being said, I never would personally ship motors but I'm sure some that at one point were sent to me could not have been shipped legally.

My inlaws are in Orlando. Please PM me what you want for the whole lot and I may buy them.
Are any of the Cox engines D8-3's or D8-0's ??
Any B14's in the lot ?

[JRThro]

I know it is not legal but I do not see why just anyone cannot label boxes "for ground shipment only".Yes, you do see why. It's not legal.

[muddyshoes]

I'm going to update the thread with a detailed listing and some better pics this afternoon.

Ron

[ghrocketman]

There are many things that are illegal due to IDIOTIC discriminatory laws that allow companies that fill out some mamby-pamby red-tape forms that mean very little to do something that is illegal otherwise. Sounds like needless red-tape and fees for nothing, especially considering most POSTAL employees don't even know that individuals cannot ship the motors without some sort of extra paperwork GARBAGE.
Is it a risk I'd take ? No, but if the shipper chooses to I have no liability as the reciever of the goods.

[muddyshoes]

I thought I had read somewhere that the law had to do with the amount of propellent per engine and that a flat hazmat fee applied to the whole shipment. Of course that would make way too much sense, and when I tried to deal with UPS Hazmat department, it just wasn't worth the aggravation and they were completely useless.

Ron

[jetlag]

Folks have been shipping me engines all my life with no 'recognized' hazmat happenings at all. It may not be legal, but neither is going 70mph in a 60mph zone. MOST of the time, you won't get a ticket.
And the folks out there that like to 'turn you in' for putting engines up for sale are just as bad.
I have better things to do, even if it's just scratching my big ole b---t! :rolleyes:
Those folks sure must feel great about themselves: 'I've just stopped that guy from breaking the law'...pat, pat, pat on the back..................!
Brother!
Allen

[shockwaveriderz]

I'm all for people breaking Federal Explosives laws. The penalty for shipping explosives thru the US mails without permission is 10 years in Fed Prison and a 10K fine.. go for it guys!

I promise I'll come see ya.





terry dean

[Bob Kaplow]

I just love it when someone thinks they have to play "shipment cop". :rolleyes:
I know it is not legal but I do not see why just anyone cannot label boxes "for ground shipment only". This law allowing some to ship this way and not all is seemingly nonsensical.
That being said, I never would personally ship motors but I'm sure some that at one point were sent to me could not have been shipped legally.

As the late Paul Harvey would say, here's the rest of the story...

I ordered some specialty aerosol sprays from an Amazon affiliate vendor. Someone who apparently regularly ships quantities of this stuff all over the country. However he gets his supply, it must come properly labeled as hazmat. I knew from the shipping price they weren't including a hazmat charge, so I assumed that they were shipping USPS ground, properly marked, just like the box I recently got from Quest and other rocket vendors that ship legally.

When I got the package, it was in the traditional red, white, and blue priority mail box. No hazmat indications, no "ground ship only" (which would be a dead give away that the package contains hazmat), and priority mail is regularly transported by commercial air line.

I exchanded a couple rounds of email with the vendor. At first, I simply explained that what he was doing was improper, and pointed him at the documentation on what you have to do to ship hazmat via USPS. I was trying to get him to understand what could happen to him if he didn't start shipping legally. After a follow up from me, I got a response from him that was only 2 words long "Who cares". That's when I contacted my local postal inspector. I can only hope that they contacted this person, and that he now cares.

We got into this mess because someone illegally and improperly shipped hazardous cargo on a passenger jet, which either started or accelerated an onboard fire, that resulted in 110 deaths. Since then shipping hazmat has become a PITA. But all it takes is one jerk like this causing another incident, and it will become virtually impossible to ship this stuff in any manner than by the truckload, wiping out our hobby. We do not need some jackass making things worse for us.

Any one else who doesn't care, ask Scott Pearce about illegally shipping rocket motors...

[muddyshoes]

Hi all,

Engines have been sold. Thank you so much for this forum and for the shipping advice.

Regards,

Ron Jaffe

[UMRS]

As the late Paul Harvey would say, here's the rest of the story...

I ordered some specialty aerosol sprays from an Amazon affiliate vendor. Someone who apparently regularly ships quantities of this stuff all over the country. However he gets his supply, it must come properly labeled as hazmat. I knew from the shipping price they weren't including a hazmat charge, so I assumed that they were shipping USPS ground, properly marked, just like the box I recently got from Quest and other rocket vendors that ship legally.

When I got the package, it was in the traditional red, white, and blue priority mail box. No hazmat indications, no "ground ship only" (which would be a dead give away that the package contains hazmat), and priority mail is regularly transported by commercial air line.

I exchanded a couple rounds of email with the vendor. At first, I simply explained that what he was doing was improper, and pointed him at the documentation on what you have to do to ship hazmat via USPS. I was trying to get him to understand what could happen to him if he didn't start shipping legally. After a follow up from me, I got a response from him that was only 2 words long "Who cares". That's when I contacted my local postal inspector. I can only hope that they contacted this person, and that he now cares.

We got into this mess because someone illegally and improperly shipped hazardous cargo on a passenger jet, which either started or accelerated an onboard fire, that resulted in 110 deaths. Since then shipping hazmat has become a PITA. But all it takes is one jerk like this causing another incident, and it will become virtually impossible to ship this stuff in any manner than by the truckload, wiping out our hobby. We do not need some jackass making things worse for us.

Any one else who doesn't care, ask Scott Pearce about illegally shipping rocket motors...

Is that the valuejet flight in florida that crashed into the swamp? My cousin is a sherrif deupty he was in the search said it was beyond a nightmare.

[Rocketflyer]

OK Bob, you opened Pandora's box. What is the story about Scott? I do not know.