Mike Dorfler worked for Apogee Components?

[lurker01]

I have a few questions concerning Mike Dorfler's possible employment with Apogee:

Did he actually work there?

Did he design any kits or products while he was there?

How long was he there?

Why did he leave?

Thank you in advance!

Bob

[Rocket Doctor]

I have a few questions concerning Mike Dorfler's possible employment with Apogee:

Did he actually work there?

Did he design any kits or products while he was there?

How long was he there?

Why did he leave?

Thank you in advance!

Bob

Bob

What makes you think that Dorffler worked for Apogee? The best one to answer those questions would be Dorffler himself.........
RD

[lurker01]

Bob

What makes you think that Dorffler worked for Apogee? The best one to answer those questions would be Dorffler himself.........
RD


Hi RD,

I was looking up the Cineroc camera on google and came across this COSROC newsletter where Tim M. stated at the NARAM 42 vendor presentation that Mike Dorfler was then working for Apogee:

http://www.cosrocs.org/newsletters/cossep00.pdf (page 5, first column, mid-way down the column)

Tim M. mentions a , "Mike Doerfler", that is a different spelling than Dorfler. Are these two people one in the same and the creator of the Cineroc camera?

If so, then any information on my original questions would be interesting :)

If the REAL Mike D. is on this forum, he sure is 'posting-shy'.

Bob

[kurtschachner]

Yeah, he worked for Apogee. If I recall correctly, he designed the Saturn 1b (and V?), including the injection molds. I think he left Estes for a while but then went back.

"Posting-shy"? You got that right.

[lurker01]

Yeah, he worked for Apogee. If I recall correctly, he designed the Saturn 1b (and V?), including the injection molds. I think he left Estes for a while but then went back.

"Posting-shy"? You got that right.


Never mind I had to re-read your reply a couple of times; Mike Dorfler worked for Tim Milligan at Apogee then went back to work for Estes. OK, got that. Did Mike have anything to do with the Apogee scale Delta Rocket? I think Mike is good friends with Mark Lavigne (sp?) who launches the real Deltas at the cape. Maybe he was able to get scale data through Mark?

Thank you in advance.

Bob

P.s. Mike Dorfler designing the Saturns for Tim, that puts things in a different light because i thought Tim Milligan had designed his 1/70th scale Saturns. Sort of a , 'Paul Harvey, and know you know the rest of the story'.

[Rocket Doctor]

Hi RD,

I was looking up the Cineroc camera on google and came across this COSROC newsletter where Tim M. stated at the NARAM 42 vendor presentation that Mike Dorfler was then working for Apogee:

http://www.cosrocs.org/newsletters/cossep00.pdf (page 5, first column, mid-way down the column)

Tim M. mentions a , "Mike Doerfler", that is a different spelling than Dorfler. Are these two people one in the same and the creator of the Cineroc camera?

If so, then any information on my original questions would be interesting :)

If the REAL Mike D. is on this forum, he sure is 'posting-shy'.

Bob
The correct spelling would be Dorffler. Mike is still at Estes and is a member of YORF.
From what I gather, he checks out the forum frequently.

[kurtschachner]

Well, I told you about as much as I know but here is a piece that mentions it:

http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/562/92/

I believe he did the CAD work on the models. The rumor was that the production of the molds for those kits created a severe strain on Apogee's finances.

Groonies.

[lurker01]

Well, I told you about as much as I know but here is a piece that mentions it:

http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/562/92/

I believe he did the CAD work on the models. The rumor was that the production of the molds for those kits created a severe strain on Apogee's finances.

Groonies.

Thank you. Your article is far more informative than what I found.

Bob

[JRThro]

Bob

What makes you think that Dorffler worked for Apogee? The best one to answer those questions would be Dorffler himself.........
RD
Or you could contact Tim Van Milligan at Apogee, since he's easy to get in touch with.

[Shreadvector]

Answer to your spelling question only:
Marc Lavigne (a.k.a. "Moose").


Never mind I had to re-read your reply a couple of times; Mike Dorfler worked for Tim Milligan at Apogee then went back to work for Estes. OK, got that. Did Mike have anything to do with the Apogee scale Delta Rocket? I think Mike is good friends with Mark Lavigne (sp?) who launches the real Deltas at the cape. Maybe he was able to get scale data through Mark?

Thank you in advance.

Bob

P.s. Mike Dorfler designing the Saturns for Tim, that puts things in a different light because i thought Tim Milligan had designed his 1/70th scale Saturns. Sort of a , 'Paul Harvey, and know you know the rest of the story'.

[dwmzmm]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought John Pursley was the one who designed and made the
molds for the corrugations and the Apollo capsule for Apogee's Saturns. I've been to Pursley's house many times in recent years and have seen first hand the molds he made
for these components.

[Royatl]

Never mind I had to re-read your reply a couple of times; Mike Dorfler worked for Tim Milligan at Apogee then went back to work for Estes. OK, got that. Did Mike have anything to do with the Apogee scale Delta Rocket? I think Mike is good friends with Mark Lavigne (sp?) who launches the real Deltas at the cape. Maybe he was able to get scale data through Mark?

Thank you in advance.

Bob

P.s. Mike Dorfler designing the Saturns for Tim, that puts things in a different light because i thought Tim Milligan had designed his 1/70th scale Saturns. Sort of a , 'Paul Harvey, and know you know the rest of the story'.

Tim also worked on the Deltas at the cape, before leaving to work at Estes, so there's a more direct connection with Mark.

John Pursley also designed some of the parts for the Apogee Saturns, specifically the vacuformed wraps.

[lurker01]

Tim also worked on the Deltas at the cape, before leaving to work at Estes, so there's a more direct connection with Mark.

John Pursley also designed some of the parts for the Apogee Saturns, specifically the vacuformed wraps.

Roy,

You are right and I should have been able to connect the dots on that one... for the Deltas, Tim probably has his own data.

To bad Apogee no longer offers the Delta kit. If he did, I would buy 2-3 of the right this second! :)

Bob

[lurker01]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought John Pursley was the one who designed and made the
molds for the corrugations and the Apollo capsule for Apogee's Saturns. I've been to Pursley's house many times in recent years and have seen first hand the molds he made
for these components.


John Pursley,

Was he the one who helped Lee Piester with Enertek? John built and still has all the prototype Enetek models?

Bob

[Initiator001]

John Pursley,

Was he the one who helped Lee Piester with Enertek? John built and still has all the prototype Enetek models?

Bob

No,

John Pursley had no involvment with Enertek.


Bob Sanford
Customer Service Director
Enertek, Inc.

[sandman]

No,

John Pursley had no involvment with Enertek.


Bob Sanford
Customer Service Director
Enertek, Inc.

Well, you would know THAT, Bob. ;)

[kurtschachner]

You may very well be right, but the person I was talking to would have known and never mentioned John in our conversation. The article I referenced seems to give the credit to Mike.

But like I said you could be right. It just wasn't told to me that way.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought John Pursley was the one who designed and made the
molds for the corrugations and the Apollo capsule for Apogee's Saturns. I've been to Pursley's house many times in recent years and have seen first hand the molds he made
for these components.

[rokitflite]

Bob Sanford
Customer Service Director
Enertek, Inc.


OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[georgegassaway]

My impression was that Mike Dorffler was in charge of the project of developing the two kits, and John Pursley assisted in several ways.

It may well be that John made some of the master parts such as used for the vac-forms. While Mike may have made the CAD files for the Apollo CM/LES injection-molded parts, which would have been needed for a machining the injection molds. Do not take that as a confirmation on my part as to who did what, but that from what I recall, both of them were involved, and it seemed Mike was more involved than John.

Also keep in mind that John made a great Saturn-V model for NARAM in 1997, at 1/72 scale. So any molds or parts that may have been seen at his home may have been from developing that 1/72 model. But that does not preclude the possibility that those were 1/70 molds for the Apogee kits, only that by eye nobody could tell a 1/70 scale part or mold from a 1/72 part or mold.

- George Gassaway

[dwmzmm]

My impression was that Mike Dorffler was in charge of the project of developing the two kits, and John Pursley assisted in several ways.

It may well be that John made some of the master parts such as used for the vac-forms. While Mike may have made the CAD files for the Apollo CM/LES injection-molded parts, which would have been needed for a machining the injection molds. Do not take that as a confirmation on my part as to who did what, but that from what I recall, both of them were involved, and it seemed Mike was more involved than John.

Also keep in mind that John made a great Saturn-V model for NARAM in 1997, at 1/72 scale. So any molds or parts that may have been seen at his home may have been from developing that 1/72 model. But that does not preclude the possibility that those were 1/70 molds for the Apogee kits, only that by eye nobody could tell a 1/70 scale part or mold from a 1/72 part or mold.

- George Gassaway

The molds I've seen at Pursley's house is the 1/70 scale; not too long ago, John even told
me that if and when I got around to building my Estes 1/70 (K-29) Saturn 1-B kit, he'd be
happy to lend me the Apollo Capsule Kit parts to help ease the build. When I decided to
get started on the K-29 after the LAUNCH/SEMROC Apollo - 7/Saturn 1-B Celebration build,
Pursley didn't have anymore of the Apollo Capsules so I just went ahead and ordered one
from Apogee.

[dwmzmm]

Ok, here's the word about Pursley's involvement with the Apogee Saturn's, straight from John himself (from an e-mail I received today):

[Quote]
My first involvement with Tim at Apogee was at, I believe, a NARCON or some kind of gathering where he saw or was aware of my 1/72 scale Saturn efforts and the level of detailing I was implementing. We chatted for a bit and he asked if I would be interested in helping him out with the upcoming kits. The most obvious area that I could help with were the various stringer and corrugation wraps as well as assorted external detailing such as fins and the like. Mike Dorffler had already by this time been doing work for Tim on the Saturns and, as I understand it, had done the work in designing and getting the molds produced for the injection molded parts for both kits. He had also produced a series of 3D CAD drawings for the potential production of the vacuform molds for the wraps using 3D lithography or some other rapid prototyping process. For whatever reason, those molds were not produced. I had nothing to do with the injection molding part of the kits.



I produced the vacuform molds for all the wraps on both kits from producing the original scale working drawings to machining the components that went in to each mold master. These were masters (which I still have) that were made exclusively for Apogee in 1/70 scale and were not from my 1/72 model efforts. I also did a bit of R&D work and came up with the underlying balsa structure design for the fin shrouds and the “plug in” fins for the Saturn V. I provided a number of replacement forms over a span of two or so years since the originals would become deformed with repeated use. I suggested going to masters made from metal or some other more heat-resistant material but nothing became of that. Not to take all the credit on the forms that I provided… Tim would have to sit with each one after they were delivered to him and meticulously decide based on his experience with his vacuformer just where to drill the hundreds of tiny surface holes in each form that were required to assure that the vacuforming process could pull the plastic as deeply as possible between the stringers and other recesses. Plus, he had to make sure that these tiny holes penetrated into the invisible channels I provided within the mold that were vented to the back of the mold so that “vacuum” could make it to the tiny holes.



I also developed the artwork for the decals and some of the documentation as well as providing the many hundreds of sets of fins and external resin parts that actually went into the kit boxes for the first couple of years. There was one exception. After my initial production of fins for the Saturn V those were produced by someone else but I produced all the Saturn IB fins for the first couple of years (so far as I know).



I had nothing to do with the actual design of the basic kits or how they went together other than mentioned above. I actually came in very late in the game and was only involved with what I stated above.



Other than producing a couple of runs of decals for one or two Apogee kits seven or eight years ago, I have had no other involvement with Apogee or their kits.
[End of Quote]

[kurtschachner]

Well, there you have it. Thanks for clearing it up with John.

That doesn't conflict with what I heard, like I mentioned we were discussing injection molds and CAD work. Our discussion never drifted onto the vacuformed wraps.

Also, again it was the injection molds that I was told caused the financial strain.

[dwmzmm]

Well, there you have it. Thanks for clearing it up with John.

That doesn't conflict with what I heard, like I mentioned we were discussing injection molds and CAD work. Our discussion never drifted onto the vacuformed wraps.

Also, again it was the injection molds that I was told caused the financial strain.

Actually, I didn't e-mail John first; "someone" in this thread did and John then e-mailed me
his reply, which I copied and pasted in full in my previous post. Nevertheless, it's very interesting to learn about stuff like this :) .

[georgegassaway]

One thing I’d like to add. Here is a link to a page from John Pursley’s website. It mentions his interest in rocketry and scale models, then gets into his career. His knowledge of the Saturn-V led to quite an interesting time the last few years, and I am not talking about the Apogee kits (something 70 times bigger).

http://www.accur8.com/aboutme.htm

From that page you can find out more about some of his scale models, tips, and other things.

- George Gassaway