Component Request...

[CPMcGraw]

As I mentioned in the post of the ST-11 Test Rocket, I said we could use a Tau style nose cone for this tube series. Well, here is my rendition of such a nose cone.

NAME: BC-1191TZ

Length: 9.1" (not counting the shoulder)
Maximum Diameter: 1.58"

Ogive Section: 7.89"
Center Section: 0.01" (Reference point for launch lugs in RockSim)
Transition Section: 1.20"

Shoulder Length: 0.875"

Weight: 0.83 oz

[Carl@Semroc]

That is probably inside the range of our current machines. The deep flare hits the tool against the balsa on larger cones.

Good thread. I have been meaning to get some feedback on new balsa parts before finalizing a catalog. What are other nose cones, transitions, blocks, etc. that would be useful to have? This includes upscales, downscales, modifications to existing parts. Many of the plastic parts do not have a corresponding balsa equivalent because we do not have a good photo of all of them.

Beyond balsa, what other tubes, rings, fins, etc.?

[CPMcGraw]

Carl,

We do need some upscales of various ogives, ellipticals and conicals. Just about anything which fits into the cutting machine's envelope would be usable.

I'm suggesting also that we think about some really odd-ball shapes to give ourselves some added flexibility. The cone described here is one such.

NAME: BC-1171SP

Length: 7.10" (without shoulder)

Forward Ogive: 4.70"
Maximum Diameter: 1.566" (Ping-Pong Ball diameter)
Sphere Length: 1.40"
Transition Section: 1.00"

Shoulder Length: 0.875"

[Tau Zero]

Good thread. I have been meaning to get some feedback on new balsa parts before finalizing a catalog. What are other nose cones, transitions, blocks, etc. that would be useful to have? This includes upscales, downscales, modifications to existing parts.I keep using a BR-1013 reducer/transition in some of my more recent designs, but I end up stretching it out to 1.0" long, because 3/4" long Just Doesn't Look Right. :mad: (Sorry Carl, nothing personal.)


Beyond balsa, what other tubes, rings, fins, etc.?
Chuter-2 1.48X upscale fins, 3/32" thick (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showpost.php?p=53687&postcount=1). (Just the fins, I don't need the additional rectangular "fiddly bits".)


A bunch of other fin sets that I can't think of right now. OOH! How 'bout these?

Littler Hustler 0.44X (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=4710)
Aero-Dart 0.56X (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=4711)

Sky Devil "Bastille" 1.00X and 1.37X
Vector-V fins and vanes 1.37X
Tau Zero 1.37X (3/32" balsa without inner notch), 1.75X (1/8" basswood with TTW "bits")


Jim Pierson's designs:

Space Argosy (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?p=61348)
The Shredder (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=14448&postcount=820)


A few of my own I'm too lazy to cut out:
XPL Experimental (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showpost.php?p=52037&postcount=230)
Prometheus (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?p=61348) (now *that's* lazy!)
Seeker P-S (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=4748)


Okay, that's all I can think of (*and* cross-reference!) right now. (Zzzz...)


Cheers,

[JRThro]

A few of my own I'm too lazy to cut out:
Prometheus (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?p=61348) (now *that's* lazy!)
Jay, I have a set of Prometheus fins, already papered and CA'ed, if you need them... No, wait a second, I need those to build the Prometheus!
:eek:

I guess you'll have to ask Carl after all.
;)

[Bill]

Good thread. I have been meaning to get some feedback on new balsa parts before finalizing a catalog. What are other nose cones, transitions, blocks, etc. that would be useful to have? This includes upscales, downscales, modifications to existing parts. Many of the plastic parts do not have a corresponding balsa equivalent because we do not have a good photo of all of them.

Beyond balsa, what other tubes, rings, fins, etc.?


I am very partial to 1.67 upscaling because of the nice correlation between available tube sizes.

Tube sizes for upscale factor 1.67:


original tube upscale tube

BT-5 0.544" -> 0.908" T-.908" (ST-8)
BT-20 0.736" -> 1.229" T-52H (29mm motor mount tube)
ST-8 0.908" -> 1.516" T-40 Quest
BT-50 0.976" -> 1.630" BT-60
ST-10 1.040" -> 1.737" ???
BT-55 1.325" -> 2.213" BT-70
BT-56 1.346" -> 2.248" T-70H
BT-60 1.637" -> 2.734" Semroc LT-275?
ST-20 2.042" -> 3.410" ??? Estes Mercury Atlas size
BT-70 2.217" -> 3.702" BT-100

I do not know about your cone machine, but is it easy to set it up with a shape? For example, to tell it to make a BNC-50J sized to fit a T-60?

I am particularly interested in:

5V, 5E, 5S, 5W for ST-8
20B, 20N for T-52H or T-30 Quest
50J, 50X, 50Y for T-60
55AC for T-70

Also, centering rings in lite-ply for the various combinations of the upscaled tube sizes.


Bill

[James Pierson]

When I first build the original Sky Champ Lander using the BTC-70 HZ I discovered that it was cored for an LT-115 (Cored at 1.22") tube and not the BT-55 (1.325") I had thought :o . A little inside sanding on my occilating spindle sander and the BT-55 fits quite nicely. Sure would be nice if the BTC-70 HZ solid balsa transition could be cored to fit an Bt-55 tube ;) . Also would be nice if the BT-55EE (5.5") was available to complete this design.

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

[James Pierson]

But wait there is more :D .

How about an upscale of the BC-523 that could be estimated as the BC-1035.

Would also like to see an shorter version of the BR-713 estimated as the BR-713S.

Just my 5 cents worth,........... I could keep this up for a while :chuckle: . ;)

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

[James Pierson]

But wait there is more :D .

I would like to see a more scif- version of the BC-726CN and call it the BC-715CN??

How about an shortened BC-760 for an ST-10 called the BC-1036??

Craig did say Oddball so how about the BC-1040??

Down to two cent now :chuckle: , JP.

James Pierson
NAR#77907

[Carl@Semroc]

Good stuff!

[James Pierson]

For the sci-fi lover in all of us, how about some really wierd stuff :eek: . I have dubbed these the W class as they are very "Wierd" :D

All in good fun, JP.

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

[CPMcGraw]

That 1040W looks like an upscale of the one Estes used for the "Red Alert"...

[James Pierson]

That 1040W looks like an upscale of the one Estes used for the "Red Alert"...

Craig, it is close as an upscale to the BNC-5RA with a little tweek with the aft transition a little longer. I was going for a sci-fi look where one could just add some cool window decals to the BC-1040W for the cockpit area. This might eliminate the need for a balsa or paper conopy. :confused:

BNC-5RA
http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=723

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

[InFlight]

James,

I like the looks of the BC-735W and BC-736W nose cones!
Keep going man. :D

[James Pierson]

James,

I like the looks of the BC-735W and BC-736W nose cones!
Keep going man. :D

Thanks All, good to see some posative input. ;)

How about some more then. :D

BC-738W
BC-739W
BC-1043W my personal favorite :cool: .

Enjoy, JP.

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

[CPMcGraw]

I want to let Carl and everyone know the samples for the BC-1171SP arrived today. These look great! It's utterly incredible what that alien technology can duplicate. The PPB section looks clean, though I can tell those section joints were tricky for the tool to work down into.

That's a note for the rest of us -- be careful about how deep and sharp our connected sections are, otherwise the cutting tool might not be able to remove material cleanly. This looked like it was tight enough to have given Carl some trouble right at the edges. Carl pulled it out, though!

See attached images for drooling...

[rkt2k1]

Ok - that cone is just plain cool !!

Was it generated on some form of computer controlled lathe??

Thanks,

... Bill

[James Pierson]

I want to let Carl and everyone know the samples for the BC-1171SP arrived today. These look great! It's utterly incredible what that alien technology can duplicate. The PPB section looks clean, though I can tell those section joints were tricky for the tool to work down into.

That's a note for the rest of us -- be careful about how deep and sharp our connected sections are, otherwise the cutting tool might not be able to remove material cleanly. This looked like it was tight enough to have given Carl some trouble right at the edges. Carl pulled it out, though!


See attached images for drooling...

That is a fantastic nose cone Craig. Carl must be a carpenter at heart ;) .

So are you telling me that if I can Create it,.... Carl, ....Can Biuld it.
Very, Very Interesting!
But which ones to order,..............All of them! :D

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

[Carl@Semroc]

But wait there is more :D .

How about an upscale of the BC-523 that could be estimated as the BC-1035.

Would also like to see an shorter version of the BR-713 estimated as the BR-713S.

Just my 5 cents worth,........... I could keep this up for a while :chuckle: . ;)

James Pierson
NAR# 77907The BC-523 upscale is BC-1044 now.
The BR-713S is BR-713VS (.75") since we already had a BR-713S (1.25")

[James Pierson]

The BC-523 upscale is BC-1044 now.
The BR-713S is BR-713VS (.75") since we already had a BR-713S (1.25")

No April Foolin' Carl. Take your time and be sure to carefully ready and understand all your shop manuals. Most importantly don't forget to to wear your safety glasses ;) .

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

[jdud]

Carl,

It would be great to have more tail cone options. Maybe a V-2 and Sprint style for BT-60 through 80. I also really like working with your heavier duty body tubes 115-275 and the BTH-70 and 80. It would be nice to have a BTH-60 with some nose cone and transition options. As you can tell, I really like mid-power.

[InFlight]

I agree, more tail cone options would be sweet.

[James Pierson]

Wouldn't it be nice to have more choices in Ring Tails.

The ones available at Semroc now are the Rt-70 and the Rt-99D

RT-70 2.175 2.217" 0.68" .021" 0.090 oz 0.7 oz $0.60
RT-99D 3.668 3.700" .391" .021" 1.42 oz 0.7 oz $0.50

It would be nice to have other choices in sizes. I have cut a few myself form Bt-100 & 101 and realize its a darn good way to seriously cut myself :eek: . Also tried to cut an LT-22580 thick wall tube and gave up about a quarter the way around as my hands are my living ;) .

Bt-80, Bt-60, Bt-101 Any others anyone??

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

[Jerry Irvine]

Ogee

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Ogee

"Ogee is a shape consisting of a concave arc flowing into a convex arc, so forming an S-shaped curve with vertical ends."

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:B1QbfBp79NzzjM:http://www.vintagedesigns.com/architecture/elmt/rf/vxtyp/ogeecurve2.jpg

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ZX_LSN27V6MlLM:http://chestofbooks.com/architecture/Modern-Buildings-Construction-V5/images/Ogee-Arches-154.jpg

http://v-serv.com/usr/kits/OgeeQuadSRB6.dwng.gif

Jerry

[CPMcGraw]

Ogee...(much snipping performed)

That would make for an interesting transition section...

I'll have to play with the shapes a bit to see what we can contrive...

[James Pierson]

I just tried, several times, to make a Balsa Transition in the shape of a Ping Pong Ball and my R9 keeps crashing :eek: !

I believe it to be a conspiracy between TVM and Shrox!! :D

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

[CPMcGraw]

I just tried, several times, to make a Balsa Transition in the shape of a Ping Pong Ball and my R9 keeps crashing :eek: !

I believe it to be a conspiracy between TVM and Shrox!! :D

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

How are you going about it? I use two elliptical sections -- a nose cone and a transition, or two transitions - 1.566" diameter, and 1/2 of this for each half's length. I might even place a thin-walled tube in between the two sections with a length like 0.00001", to act as a reference diameter for launch lugs...

[James Pierson]

How are you going about it? I use two elliptical sections -- a nose cone and a transition, or two transitions - 1.566" diameter, and 1/2 of this for each half's length. I might even place a thin-walled tube in between the two sections with a length like 0.00001", to act as a reference diameter for launch lugs...

Craig, I am trying to make a solid balsa transition with a forward and aft shoulder. I have been using a front half transition and an Back half transition with demensions of front .759 center 1.5 and back .759 also with shoulders of .7 length and dia. of .71 for an ST-7. I had it created once with an BNC and ST-723 and then added the transitions but, as soon as I deleted the BNC and ST-723 the program shut down again :confused: .
PS. Using the olgive setting.

I still say it's a conspriacy :chuckle: !

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

[James Pierson]

Ogee

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Ogee

"Ogee is a shape consisting of a concave arc flowing into a convex arc, so forming an S-shaped curve with vertical ends."

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:B1QbfBp79NzzjM:http://www.vintagedesigns.com/architecture/elmt/rf/vxtyp/ogeecurve2.jpg

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ZX_LSN27V6MlLM:http://chestofbooks.com/architecture/Modern-Buildings-Construction-V5/images/Ogee-Arches-154.jpg

http://v-serv.com/usr/kits/OgeeQuadSRB6.dwng.gif

Jerry


Ogee as a balsa reducer ST-7 to ST-10 and named BR-710W. It doesn't look too much like a Chess piece or a table leg ;) . Or does it?

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

[CPMcGraw]

Ogee as a balsa reducer ST-7 to ST-10 and named BR-710W. It doesn't look look too much like a Chess piece of a table leg ;) . Or does it?

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

Actually, it does have the appearance of a chess pawn... :)

That's OK, since I play chess, too...

Badly... :o :D

[James Pierson]

Hey All, look what I found at Semroc :D .

BC-715CN Link:
http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=2080

Guess I had better get busy and start ordering and designing with this Cone Nozzle set.

Thanks Carl and all at Semroc.

James Pierson
NAR# 7797

[CPMcGraw]

Hey All, look what I found at Semroc :D ...

Oh, dear! More goodies to keep me busy.

I'm already behind in ordering these new parts 'n pieces, and Carl just keeps adding more! Sigh...

I'll never get caught up! :D

What problems I have...

[mycrofte]

That is pretty much what I was thinking of for the three pods on the Thunderbird 3...

[Ltvscout]

Hey All, look what I found at Semroc :D .

BC-175CN Link:
http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=2080
Am I correct in assuming that's for the upcoming Orion?

[Carl@Semroc]

Am I correct in assuming that's for the upcoming Orion?That one was one of James' creations.

The BC-1315 (http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1986) is the correct one for the upcoming Orion. The original that Bob Craddock loaned me used the balsa cone and paper shroud. The instructions call for six BC-711 (BC-71) balsa nose cones and an errata sheet says they were replaced with plastic cones. They are a translucent white plastic not like any other cones I saw from Centuri. I was going to scan the older instructions, but my scanner went out before I was able to to it.

The vacuform wraps are the same one-off from the Centuri Saturn V and 1B. We will probably use paper wraps and balsa fiddly-bits on ours.

[garmtn]

I agree, good stuff! Just very frustrating trying to find parts in local hobbie shop, along with decals. I plan on building the Bluebird Zero and the Maxi-force but, have yet to find decals. Someone did reply papatango would b open again in 3 days. Excelsior will b back eventually.
Any other sources for decals of OOP rockets :confused: ?