Gemini Titan K-21

[hoverhans]

Just found this site and am real happy I did. Been a BAR for about 5 years and built all the rockets I had as a kid from available plans.

Have one I am doing now and need some expert help. The K-21 Gemini. It calls for a JT70A tube for the dual engine mount. I need to know the proper length of the tube. I can't seem to find this out anywhere.

Also I have done all the fins and balsa parts I can find and drawn them up in cad for laser cutting as I have a laser cutter in my shop. Not sure if anyone bothers with laser cut fins, but thought I would put it out there if anyone may need some.
Hans

[EchoVictor]

Welcome to YORF, Hans!

Let me be the first to ask, as I'm sure many others will, can you post some pictures? We always love to see some of the oldies, either in original or in clone form.

Also, I have to ask, do you have a brother named Franz? :D

Later,
EV

[hoverhans]

Thanks for the welcome.
Right now I have built these rockets from plans and available parts.
The old Sizzler, not the new rear eject
The meduim size V-2
The small early V-2
The Maxi V-2
The Big Bertha
The Mean Machine
The Orbital Transporter
The swing Wing is cut and ready to build
And the Gemini Titan is being built now as well.
Someone told me that the JT70A tube is 1.25" long, so I should have that one done soon.

I am looking for a nose cone for the Maxi Pershing.

I also have the Saturn V and a Saturn 1B on the list as well as the Mercury Atlas and old Space Shuttle built. Need to get the Redstone.
I'll see about taking a few pics of the old models and the clones this weekend. I really love building the old rockets from the plans. It is more fun than it was building the kits all those years ago.

No brother named Franz.
Hans

[ghrocketman]

Not sure if you are aware of this or not but the K-21 is now being cloned commercially.
I bought one of these and can say it is a great kit !

http://www.pdrocketry.com/rocket.htm

Cost of the kit is $34.95 at the PDR website shown above.
Lots of other great clones such as the Trident, Thor-Agena B, Orbital Transport, Andromeda, Starlight, and Mars Snooper are available too.

I purchased the K-21 Gemini Titan, Trident, and Orbital Transport and they are all as good if not better than the original issued Estes kits from the 60's/70's.
The Orbital Transport even includes laser-cut fins !

Good luck with the Pershing 1A nose cone....there are exactly ZERO available clone replacement cones nor can any common known parts be assembled to resemble one. The only known alternative to this is to have one commercially or home turned out of balsa on a LARGE lathe; this would be extremely costly, heavy, and impractical.

Good luck with the Saturn 1B (K-29 1/70 I assume) as several of these parts are near impossible to get (BT-51 tank tubes).
The Estes 1/70 Saturn 1B is supposed to be issued as a limited production re-release in the Fall of 2006. Originally it was supposed to be fall of this year and was on the eHobbies site as a future product. It has been removed from the site as it was decided by Estes to delay the intro for a year (no reason given for the delay)

The Mercury Atlas uses a unique body tube that was shared by the 1/45 Centuri Little Joe...this is also an impossible find for cloning.

[hoverhans]

GH thanks for the link. Had no idea they were being made. Looks like very nice stuff!

The thing is I like doing the whole thing myself. Just more fun for me that way.

When I did my Orbital Transporter I laser cut the fins as well. Sure is a nice tool to have around the shop. I make my own decals too.
I bought boxes and boxes of body tubes in all sizes and made a cutting jig to cut them to length, I laser cut my fins, paper shrouds, and centering rings, and print my own decals on an ALPs printer. I guess I could go into production if I really wanted to :) I sat down one day and made all the parts up for 12 Sizzler kits just for the fun of it.

The Saturn 1B that I have is a Kosrox kit. Not sure if you can still get them or not. I heard the Pershing cone is a major no go. Too bad. I thought I heard of a guy that made a few about 4 years ago, but never heard anything more about it. My Atlas was a real kit and so are both my Saturn Vs.

Again, thanks for the link. The more I learn the better.

Once the BAR bug hits, you are a lost cause!
Hans

[hoverhans]

GH,

"Good luck with the Saturn 1B (K-29 1/70 I assume) as several of these parts are near impossible to get (BT-51 tank tubes)."

Thought I would let you know that the T-50+ from Totally Tubular is a near perfect replacement for the Estes BT-51. The BT-51 is 1.010 outside and .984 inside. The T-50+ is 1.011 outside and .984 inside.

Hans

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

I'm pretty sure someone out there is selling Pershing cones. Let me see if I can track the info down.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

That was quicker than I had anticipated. A place called Alien Enterprises sells Pershing cones. (Or at least they did.) The info is all in this post.
http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5640&highlight=pershing+cone

[hoverhans]

Thanks Bill. I knew I had seen them someplace.
I tried the email contact, but it is not formatted right.
I'll try to PM the author and see if he has another way to contact them.
Hans

[EchoVictor]

Thought I would let you know that the T-50+ from Totally Tubular is a near perfect replacement for the Estes BT-51. The BT-51 is 1.010 outside and .984 inside. The T-50+ is 1.011 outside and .984 inside.

Hans

Hmmm...."near perfect"?

I'd call a difference of .001" damn perfect enough!

You one of us "anal" engineers, Hans? :D

Later,
EV

[Ltvscout]

Good luck with the Pershing 1A nose cone....there are exactly ZERO available clone replacement cones nor can any common known parts be assembled to resemble one. The only known alternative to this is to have one commercially or home turned out of balsa on a LARGE lathe; this would be extremely costly, heavy, and impractical.
BZZZZZZZTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

Ed Miller of Alien Enterprises sells a fiberglass clone of the cone and fins. I bought a set a number of years ago. Nice quality. I'll try to attach the last "catalog" I had from him that's in Word format. This is the last email address I have for Ed:

Thunderhead@ihs2000.com

[Royatl]

Just found this site and am real happy I did. Been a BAR for about 5 years and built all the rockets I had as a kid from available plans.

Have one I am doing now and need some expert help. The K-21 Gemini. It calls for a JT70A tube for the dual engine mount. I need to know the proper length of the tube. I can't seem to find this out anywhere.

Also I have done all the fins and balsa parts I can find and drawn them up in cad for laser cutting as I have a laser cutter in my shop. Not sure if anyone bothers with laser cut fins, but thought I would put it out there if anyone may need some.
Hans


I'm building one from the PDR kit. The catalogs from the '60s say JT70A is 1.25" long. The one from PDR is 1.3".

My concern is with the separation of the BT20s within the two centering rings. The PDR parts have only 0.08" separation at the front, and 0.14" at the rear ring. This seems to me to be way too small, from my memory of the original kit. The only patterns I've found, though are redrawn ones from this site, which PDR apparently used to make their parts.

If you, or anyone, has better info on these rings, or original ones you can measure or scan, put it up here.

[ghrocketman]

I stand corrected regarding the BT-51's and the Pershing cone !
You learn something new everyday !
I always liked the Pershing, but the originals have always went for WAAAAAAAAY too much $$$.
I may have to check this one out !

[Ltvscout]

I'm building one from the PDR kit. The catalogs from the '60s say JT70A is 1.25" long. The one from PDR is 1.3".

My concern is with the separation of the BT20s within the two centering rings. The PDR parts have only 0.08" separation at the front, and 0.14" at the rear ring. This seems to me to be way too small, from my memory of the original kit. The only patterns I've found, though are redrawn ones from this site, which PDR apparently used to make their parts.

If you, or anyone, has better info on these rings, or original ones you can measure or scan, put it up here.
Are you talking about these?

http://www.rocketshoppe.com/decals/Gemini_Titan.pdf

[Royatl]

Are you talking about these?

http://www.rocketshoppe.com/decals/Gemini_Titan.pdf


Yup,
Those are the patterns from Sunsite (now at http://ibiblio.org/pub/archives/rec.models.rockets/GRAPHICS/DECALS/Estes.zip [Gemini Titan Fin and Ring Patterns.eps - 10/28/1997]). I think they are badly wrong, or they were done by someone going for what they thought was a more scale-like appearance.
For instance, the engine bell shroud is much shallower than the Estes patterns (which PDR uses). If you were to build this motor mount, and use the Estes shrouds, the shrouds would be smushed together (technical term :p ). In fact, somewhere on one of these forums, or maybe on OldRockets, I've seen a picture of a GT2 that shows just that problem.

The two engine tubes must be separated by at least .21" and then some at the gimbal/thrust structure to clear the JT50 parts that surround the BT20s. In the PDR kit, the tubes are barely .25" apart at the very end. At the point where they should go on the PDR kit, the tubes are about .16" apart!!

So, I'm certain these are different from the original Estes parts.

Update:
So I pulled out "ROTW" and looked up the GT2. The centers of the motor tubes at the gimbals should be ~1.1" apart, which means the outsides of the tubes should be about 0.36" apart at that point. The tubes should be leaning out at 3.5 degrees. For the proper angle, the separation of the holes in the rear ring should be 0.165" instead of 0.14". That would put the separation at the gimbals at 0.35, close enough. By sliding the rear ring forward until there was 0.48" of space between the two rings, I got what appeared to be the right amount of spacing. I'll play with it some more tomorrow.

[hoverhans]

Great info all!

LTV, I tried that email several times and it keeps coming back as bad. I think I will try and mail a letter to him as the address is on the form. I'll let you all know what I find out.

Roy,
Great post! When you find out what the best length for the JT70 ends up being, please post it for us.

GH, I learn new things everyday. That is what makes the hobby fun.

Echo, Maybe not an anal engineer, but pretty close :) I also build scale R/C planes for the Scale Masters and Top Gun.

Man I'm glad I found this site!!! Great people and awesome advice.
Thanks all!!!!

Here is a plane I am building now for the 401st Bomb Group
Hans

[kurtschachner]

Yup,
Those are the patterns from Sunsite (now at http://ibiblio.org/pub/archives/rec.models.rockets/GRAPHICS/DECALS/Estes.zip [Gemini Titan Fin and Ring Patterns.eps - 10/28/1997]). I think they are badly wrong, or they were done by someone going for what they thought was a more scale-like appearance.
For instance, the engine bell shroud is much shallower than the Estes patterns (which PDR uses). If you were to build this motor mount, and use the Estes shrouds, the shrouds would be smushed together (technical term :p ). In fact, somewhere on one of these forums, or maybe on OldRockets, I've seen a picture of a GT2 that shows just that problem.

The two engine tubes must be separated by at least .21" and then some at the gimbal/thrust structure to clear the JT50 parts that surround the BT20s. In the PDR kit, the tubes are barely .25" apart at the very end. At the point where they should go on the PDR kit, the tubes are about .16" apart!!

So, I'm certain these are different from the original Estes parts.



Whoa, that someone is me. I had all that stuff posted to the sunsite eons ago, I didn't even know it still existed. I redrew all those items.

The engine bell patterns I had when I built my clone were from an original Estes sheet. They did not fit, they bumped together just like you said. However, the ones I redrew (and Scott posted the link) *should* fit just fine. They did on my kit. The centering ring patterns were redrawn from original Estes centering rings for this model.

Are you saying that when you cut out the rings and the bells as shown on my redrawn sheet they don't fit? That shouldn't be. You aren't shrinking or enlarging them, are you? Also, are you sure you are assembling the rings properly? The finished engine tubes point out, not in.

It is funny, the picture on Pimp Daddy rocketry is my model. It is also the one shown on JimZ's site.

Anyway, let me know what kind of problems you are having and maybe I can help. The only thing that isn't stock Estes in my pattern (besides the redrawn bells) is the "corrugated" shroud pattern. That I redrew and made into a decal for my model.

Kurt

[kurtschachner]

Here you go, a small picture of the bells on my model. They almost touch but do not.

[Ltvscout]

It is funny, the picture on Pimp Daddy rocketry is my model. It is also the one shown on JimZ's site.
Hmmm, time to contact the owner of PDR to get your free kit of choice to cover royalties. ;)

[kurtschachner]

Hmmm, time to contact the owner of PDR to get your free kit of choice to cover royalties. ;)

Heh, ya I don't think so. All my stuff has been public domain since day one. I know of others that make money off my redrawn decals as it is.

What's with the name anyway? "Pimp Daddy" rocketry? Why not Crack Whore Rockets or Smack Addict Rockets? Besides, the decals I have seen for these kits aren't anything to write home about.

[Green Dragon]

You know you guys are bad influences, don;t you ? :-)

Now I;m going to have to build one of these as well... in fact just added the capsule at the last minute on my BMS order .

interesting ( sad, so don't cry ) story on this kit:

sometime back in the early 80's a friend of my cousin had given him some old rocketry items, don;t recall the specifics, couple kits,parts,etc (all built up ).

anyways, included was a K21 gemini Titan , with no capsule or clear fins - he did not know what to do with it (or want to try clustering as he was a beginner at the time (never di dfly much more after that,as I recall ) - so he gave the Gemini to myself and my brother.

rocket was VERY well done, roll patterns painted very nicely,as I recall the engine section was all silver,had modt of the dowel details,etc.

never knew where to get parts or a cone, so it sat around forever.... did fit a Big Bertha cone, not exactly scale :-)

well, sad end - eventually my brother added six fins glued around the tube - small fins,ala Wizard kit or similar.
wasn't very stable on it's one try... so sat more.

later, he cut the top off, added a BT70 section and used it for D egglofting .. and it was lost in the woods :-(

a georgeous Gemini I could have flying now in one night :-(

* sobs*

if we only knew then........

~ AL

[Green Dragon]

I note that the length of the JT-70 coupler has been addressed here (and made note of :-)

however, I failed to find the lengths of the JT-50 coupler sections used on the engine assemblies .

did I miss that posted, or, if not, can someone please advise :-)

thanks,

~ AL

[Royatl]

7/16"

[kurtschachner]

Here is one more thing about the G-T. I posted this build report to RMR about a million years ago, perhaps there is something in there that might help in building one yourself.

*****************

First off, my intent in construction was not to create a more "scale" model than the Estes kit. I have seen posts that this kit, constructed as described, is not very scale. My intent was to recreate a kit from my childhood To that end I am happy with what I have.

A couple of general notes:

There was (and continues to be) confusion over the fin size, shape, and geometry, with accompanying confusion over the height of the fin ring. I hear from (I think Buzz) that he has an original kit with 2 7/16 inch root-length fins. I have a set of plans from Bob Craddock that show a fin with a root length of about 3 inches. The ones on Jim Z's site are longer.

I ended up using the 3" root-length fins that I had, mainly because I had already cut them before I discovered the other sizes. Bottom line is that it was stable in flight, probably would have been with the smaller fins too, and the small length of ring and fins that extends below the bottom of the body tube was absolutely no problem.

I built the fins out of 0.040" thick polycarbonate, and the fin ring out of 0.020" PC. As I have posted here before, I did end up having a machinist friend make me a mandrel that I used to heat-treat the ring material into a nice, stress-free ring. If you use polystyrene sheet instead of polycarbonate, perhaps you wouldn't have to do that. However, a short piece of 2 1/4" diameter aluminum rod is also the right diameter, so you could use that. You will have to play around with oven temperatures, but on my home oven, I set it to between 300 and 325 degrees F. I used a solution of 10% polycarbonate in methylene chloride to bond the ring together, and the fins to the ring. There are commercial solvent bonding agents available.

Going through the instructions, I have the following comments.

The engine mount is composed of two centering rings and a tube coupler. The centering ring's holes (for the engine tubes) are off-center (one ring has the holes slightly closer together than the other). I think Jim Z is going to post a drawing of these rings. I had a Xerox of two original rings to go by.

Don't build the stuffer tube as shown. I believe that is way more complicated than is necessary, plus it makes it nearly impossible to get the shroud on correctly. Build the stuffer tube out of a single piece of BT-50, and leave 4" or so at the top of the BT-70 for the parachute. That makes a stuffer tube about 8 1/2 to 9" long. You need to cut two RA-5070 rings for the tube.

Then construct the capsule like the Centuri (or Estes re-release) Saturn 1B. Use an additional JT-70A and short piece of BT-60. This way, the shroud (service module) and capsule are one unit, and the whole thing pops off at ejection. You get a couple of good benefits this way-a bigger parachute tube (BT-70 instead of BT-60), simpler construction, and a much better looking shroud. If you don't understand what I'm talking about, download the S1B (or newer Estes SV) plans and it should be pretty clear. Trying to glue a shroud onto the edge of a body tube is very difficult to do.

I also used CA to butt-join two shorter launch lugs together for the wiring tunnels.

The engine bells on the pattern sheet were way off for me. Use ShroudBuilder or something to make your own. It took me only about 20 tries to get it looking right :)

I ended up attaching the fin unit with two 4-40 nylon screws, which screwed into two nylon nuts I embedded in the two little balsa wood pieces at the bottom of the rocket. This left two holes in the exterior of the tube, but it's not all that noticeable, and I like the idea of positive fin attachment.

Oh, and by the way, for the little engine combustion chambers just above the bells, I cut a 7/16" piece of BT-50, and used two RA-2050 rings to make them. Trying to cut down a tube coupler (and cut it straight) was impossible for me. This looked very nice when done.

Now to finishing. I painted on the white and silver, and made black decals for all the rest (except the capsule). Jim Z is planning on posting the decal patterns to his website soon. You could just as easily paint on the roll patterns, but the vents and UNITED STATES are more difficult. For the capsule, I called up Revell-Monogram and got a set of decals for their Mercury capsule since they were white. I also had the machinist cut my capsule windows with a 3/8" end mill.

I used 3/64" wide white detailing tape to make the white stripes. The first three were easy to put down, and the last one was difficult. Getting it to lay down over the launch lugs is a problem.

Well that's about it. How did it fly? Great! Especially on 2 B6-4s. The 2 A8-3 flight was kind of a cliff hanger, but nothing dangerous. I just liked the higher boost on the Bs.

[Green Dragon]

OK, definately on a roll to start on this, ordered the capsule ... and hit the parts bin this afternoon .

few comments ,etc.

noting the Jt70 length, it was mentioned at 1.2, iirc, and that PDR uses 1.3" ( .1" doesn;t seem like much until you realize the seperation of the tubes changes due to the angle mount .so will make a difference, did nto sit down and run the numbers to see how much )
however, in finding a nice used vintage JT70 in my parts pile - it measures right at 1.25" . dead centered between the two, so sounds like it can be used as is ( and possibly the original length Estes used ? can't believe I'd have one that just happens to be 'right' .... is that a common JT70 ?

regarding fin sizing and hints, polycarb does sound strongere / stiffer so will look into that, might be slightly heavier, but stability might be fine - still not sure I feel 'safe' just taping or friction fitting the fin unit on, comments?, ppl glued them on ?

Kurts comment on using a 3/8 endmill is good, not sure if I have one that size, but can come up with one ( don;t have a mill in my home shop, but ran one enough when I was working..

also, re: decals - Kurt - you have those posted already, right ? ( on the Kurt's Decal page ? ) , will use those over painted patterns.

also, regarding the white stripe being hard to apply over the lug - is that a 'conduit' lug, or the actual launch lug ? ( pardon my ignorance, did not go over every little step in the instructions I downloaded yet ), if it;s the actual lug, can;t it be moved, or eliminated ? ( wire loop lugs might be good here,nice and tidy.)

as for the comments on the capsule, gonna have to disagree, since my vintage one (see horror story above), had a nicely done shroud, and I;ve built many competition boatails,etc that are at the ends of the BT (same shroaud,just backwards).

I'll likely fill the shroud with foam and that will be fine - a little extra weight will keep it stable anyways ( and that's why Quest is coming out with the 18mm D, right ? :-)

was thinking on the stuffer tube,etc befroe I saw this and it did seem it could be simpler - my take as follows :
why not eliminate the stuffer completely ?
just glue the JT70 motor assembly into the back, and then use the parachute tube 'floating' with maybe a baffle (Semroc ST16 could be made to fit, I think, or a steel whool mesh ,ala LOC/Aerotech).
as long as the ejection charges get tot he chute, should be ok .... and the BT60 tube is plenty large, we pack 40 inch mylar chutes into BT50's for eggloft duration....

Kurt did comment on the short JT50's.. and I'm following that well, seems it would be a lot easier to use a BT50, and the heavy paper AR-2050's, too ( note comment on foam adding nosewieght, so it will even out ) - maybe even no BT50 at all ? just a stack or AR-2050 rings (7/16" = 3 AR2050 @ .25" thick,plus a RA2050 ring sandwiched in the stack to get close to 7/16" ?

>I also used CA to butt-join two shorter launch lugs together for the wiring tunnels.

why not plastruct or similar styrene tube,etc ?

>The engine bells on the pattern sheet were way off for me. Use ShroudBuilder or >something to make your own. It took me only about 20 tries to get it looking right :)

hmm - I actually downloaded,and printed on cardstock, the shroads both from Jim Z, and the Sunsite version, and they DO differ, will have to make up both sets and see what looks good .
if I remember ok, the vintage one we had, the shrouds just touched,but could have been ' smushed' a little. hard to recall how 'tight'
( see Bill, used your technical term :-)

>I ended up attaching the fin unit with two 4-40 nylon screws, which screwed into two >nylon nuts I embedded in the two little balsa wood pieces at the bottom of the rocket. >This left two holes in the exterior of the tube, but it's not all that noticeable, and I like the >idea of positive fin attachment.

nswers my question above, and might not even need to be 4-40, then even less noticable, note made , thanks :-)

>Well that's about it. How did it fly? Great! Especially on 2 B6-4s. The 2 A8-3 flight was kind >of a cliff hanger, but nothing dangerous. I just liked the higher boost on the Bs.[/QUOTE]

hmm... no C6-5's ... D21's ? :-)

thanks for the tips, will keep poting how it goes..

~ AL

[dtomko]

Got back to my clone the other night. I used a paper model wrap for the capsule. The radius on the main cabin section didn't fit the BMS cone, so I sanded down the top part and the instrument section. I may make the wrap darker, but I like the look. I am using a single BT-60 inner tube; it will be glued to the top of the engine unit. It just fits over the tops of the engine tubes and will be glued there for a seal. This will go all the way up to the capsule. I am cutting slits in the BT-70 for the plastic fins. The slits will be mostly hidden by the black roll pattern.
Drew

[hoverhans]

Well,
I got back home from Japan last week and went out into the shop to look at my rockets. I think my Titan would be better off if I just started over. The nose cone is fine but the rest is a bit rough from sitting half built for 5 or 6 years.
I went through and cleaned up and inspected my other rockets and they all look O.K. so that's some good news. I also dug through all my boxes of stuff and found all the nose cones I bought and all the other building stuff in good shape. I just made a large BT order and ordered a bunch of plastic parts from Moldin Oldies so I can get back into things.
I was so bored in Japan that I spent much of my time drawing decals and laser cut files for OOP rockets. I have more than enough to keep me busy over the winter!
First on the list is the U.S.S. America and second is the Intercepter, then the SR-71. I may make a few more Sizzlers and would like to do a Mega Sizzler if anyone has the fin templates.

Will take a few pics of my rockets this weekend to post. Still trying to get back into the swing of things here.
Hans

[barone]

.... I may make a few more Sizzlers and would like to do a Mega Sizzler if anyone has the fin templates.



I've got a built Mega Sizz (1998) that I can get the pattern off of if that will do you. Need decals? I haven't put mine on yet so I can scan them for you.

Don
NAR 53455

[hoverhans]

Barone,
Thanks, but I found the patterns and I made up the decals. Only thing that is tough is the nose cone. PNC-60RL. Not available anywhere that I can find. All I can think is the RL means real long. Seems it is 8.375" long. May have to turn one out of balsa.
Hans

[Ltvscout]

Barone,
Thanks, but I found the patterns and I made up the decals. Only thing that is tough is the nose cone. PNC-60RL. Not available anywhere that I can find. All I can think is the RL means real long. Seems it is 8.375" long. May have to turn one out of balsa.
Hans
Do you know about the Estes Nose Cone Reference found on my main Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe site? It's in the building tips section. Here's a list of the rockets with that cone:

P/N 072305, PNC-60RL (Blow Molded)
Kit Number Kit Name
1987 Sentinel
1998 Mega Sizz'
2014 Firehawk
2029 Raven
2032 Magnum
2037 National Aerospace Plane
2127 Sizzler

You can see pictures of all the cones here:

http://www.rocketshoppe.com/info/Nose_Cones.pdf

[hoverhans]

Scott,
I did not know about that page. I'm still trying to soak all the info here in. In fact I drew a whole set of U.S.S America decals before I found the decal page that already had them done, and better than mine.
Hans

[kurtschachner]

Scott,
I did not know about that page. I'm still trying to soak all the info here in. In fact I drew a whole set of U.S.S America decals before I found the decal page that already had them done, and better than mine.
Hans

BTW, if you are talking about the ones on Scott's site (Kurt's Decal Page), then I am the one who redraw those. I mention this because what is posted there are PDF files, but if anyone wants the native Illustrator files they should let me know. I can email them to you.

Most modern drawing packages (Illustrator, Corel Draw) can open up the PDF files just the same, but if you run into any problems let me know.

[hoverhans]

Kurt,
Yes they were yours and great job on them by the way! I opened them in Corel 11 and was able to move them around and make them fit my print area perfect. I was also able to copy them and paste them onto a second sheet and make them all black so I could do the white backing layers. Great stuff Kurt.
Thanks much.
I have a bunch that I have drawn in Corel Draw. I would be glad to donate them to the site if Scott wants them, or I could add them to your decal page if you like. Just let me know.
Hans

[kurtschachner]

Kurt,

I have a bunch that I have drawn in Corel Draw. I would be glad to donate them to the site if Scott wants them, or I could add them to your decal page if you like. Just let me know.
Hans

By all means send them to Scott (right, Scott ;-)? They can be either posted along with my stuff or he can start a new page (Hans' Decal Page). Either way we get the benefit of your work too.

Thanks.

[Ltvscout]

Kurt,
Yes they were yours and great job on them by the way! I opened them in Corel 11 and was able to move them around and make them fit my print area perfect. I was also able to copy them and paste them onto a second sheet and make them all black so I could do the white backing layers. Great stuff Kurt.
Thanks much.
I have a bunch that I have drawn in Corel Draw. I would be glad to donate them to the site if Scott wants them, or I could add them to your decal page if you like. Just let me know.
Hans
Sure, send them over. I have a separate decal area for decals scanned/created by rocketeers.

You can send them to scotth@execpc.com.

[dtomko]

Back on topic: I did a little more work on my Gemini-Titan. I glued the BT-60 stuffer tube to the top of the engine unit and used lots of yellow glue to make a seal. Then I installed it in the BT-70. I had cut the BT-70 so I could use a hole punch to make the vent holes. I'll use a coupler to join it back together. The stuffer tube is too long now; I'll trim it carefully after I glue on the shroud at the top.
Drew

[dtomko]

I test fitted wraps made from the free paper model available at the Lower Hudson Valley Paper Model E-Gift Shop. It's a 1/48 scale model and I printed it at 90% on my Epson printer. The fit is nearly perfect except for all those vent holes below the interstage not lining up. I am still trying to figure out a way to get the shiny aluminum effect.
Drew

[dtomko]

I've been doing more work on the GT this week. I used wraps from the paper model for the roll patterns and used chrome Trim Monokote for the aluminum areas. It's a bit too shiny, so I fiddled with the wraps in Photoshop and took out most of the gray color leaving the United States and lines. I printed those on clear decal paper and will apply them over the chrome. This will take some of the shine out of those areas. Then I have white dry transfer striping for the white lines. I cut slits in the lower BT; the clear plastic fins will slip into these.

Here are a few shots.

Drew

[hawkshobby]

GH,

"Good luck with the Saturn 1B (K-29 1/70 I assume) as several of these parts are near impossible to get (BT-51 tank tubes)."

Thought I would let you know that the T-50+ from Totally Tubular is a near perfect replacement for the Estes BT-51. The BT-51 is 1.010 outside and .984 inside. The T-50+ is 1.011 outside and .984 inside.

Hans

Semroc has the BT-51 tube on there website now. :)

[Ltvscout]

Semroc has the BT-51 tube on there website now. :)
Now to get the BT-52 for a "true" Thor-Agena and SPEV clone. ;)

[dtomko]

I finally finished this today. Clear plastic fins fit in slots in the BT. For display, the slits are hidden by balsa strip. Hardly any painting on this; paper wraps and chrome trim Monokote mostly.
Drew