Mars Lander question

[hoverhans]

Another rocket I am in the middle of building is a Mars Lander clone.

My question is about the rubber bands used on the landing gear legs. What is the proper size rubber band for this aplication? I think I'm set with all the other parts, just not sure of what bands to use on it.

Again, thanks to all. This is a gold mine of info for all BARs out there! I've been looking for a site like this for a long time.
Hans

[CPMcGraw]

Another rocket I am in the middle of building is a Mars Lander clone.

My question is about the rubber bands used on the landing gear legs. What is the proper size rubber band for this aplication? I think I'm set with all the other parts, just not sure of what bands to use on it.

Again, thanks to all. This is a gold mine of info for all BARs out there! I've been looking for a site like this for a long time.
Hans

Unless you're going for the "authentic look" of an original, I'd suggest using elastic shock chord material instead. This is what Estes is using in their Outlander variation of the ML.

Check the Wal Mart crafts section, near the knitting supplies, and you'll fins all of the elastic you'll ever need... :eek:

[hoverhans]

Craig,
Thanks for the advice. I don't know why I did not think of that. Sometimes things stare you right in the face and you miss them!
Hans

[ghrocketman]

I totally agree here with CPMcGraw on this one....go with the shock cord material.
I own two original Mars Landers plus an original unbuilt kit....the one that used the stock rubberbands now has collapsed legs...but it was built 20+ years ago.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Unless you're going for the "authentic look" of an original, I'd suggest using elastic shock chord material instead. This is what Estes is using in their Outlander variation of the ML.


So, has anyone actually seen a conversion of an Outlander to a Mars Lander?

[CPMcGraw]

So, has anyone actually seen a conversion of an Outlander to a Mars Lander?

That may be what I use a HL coupon for this week... :D

[EchoVictor]

So, has anyone actually seen a conversion of an Outlander to a Mars Lander?

Kind of....

Sirius Rocketry sells a decal set that makes your Outlander look like a Mars Lander...

http://www.siriusrocketry.com/siriusshopping/sirius01/

Look under "Parts and Accessories - Sirius Parts and Accessories - Elite Line Decal Sets"

Here's a link to photos of a built one...

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9417&perpage=20&highlight=sirius%20AND%20outlander&pagenumber=3

Later,
EV

[Green Dragon]

re: the Outlander kit ...

can anyone comment on the legs,etc - are they the same as ( or close enough) to the Mars lander ?

looks like a good start for a clone, instead of cutting the legs,etc .

Might have to add a lander tot he winter project pile .... had one in the wayback but sold it when I was flying exclusively HPR ( and low on cash, lol ) ....

~ AL

[dtomko]

re: the Outlander kit ...

can anyone comment on the legs,etc - are they the same as ( or close enough) to the Mars lander ?

looks like a good start for a clone, instead of cutting the legs,etc .

Might have to add a lander tot he winter project pile .... had one in the wayback but sold it when I was flying exclusively HPR ( and low on cash, lol ) ....

~ AL

Al,
The legs in the Outlander are identical to the Mars Lander's, and it is a good way to clone the MR. Actually, I think the Outlander has slightly thicker foot pad coupler pieces, but that's it; the die-cut and balsa parts are identical. The stuffer tube is the same as well. The toughest part is finding the BT-100 tube. It was also used in the first Estes R2-D2; I got one off eBay a long time ago. It's the same length. If you get that you just need a few centering rings and the balsa nose from BMS and decals (I think Excelsior has them). Check the Mars Lander Yahoo group for shroud patterns. Replicating the embossed panel lines will also be a challenge. Another one of my projects waiting in line.
Drew

[Green Dragon]

Al,
The legs in the Outlander are identical to the Mars Lander's, and it is a good way to clone the MR. Actually, I think the Outlander has slightly thicker foot pad coupler pieces, but that's it; the die-cut and balsa parts are identical. The stuffer tube is the same as well. The toughest part is finding the BT-100 tube. It was also used in the first Estes R2-D2; I got one off eBay a long time ago. It's the same length. If you get that you just need a few centering rings and the balsa nose from BMS and decals (I think Excelsior has them). Check the Mars Lander Yahoo group for shroud patterns. Replicating the embossed panel lines will also be a challenge. Another one of my projects waiting in line.
Drew

this is great news ! :-)

I will be hunting up a good price on an outlander shortly (www.hobbylinc.com is cheapest online price I found ) .

I was not aware the BT100 on the R2-D2 was the same length ( are you certain ? lol ), will be measuring tonight.

I have a vintage 1977 R2 that's had a roung life - broken legs,broken clear fins,broken 'head', plus the decal wrap was mis-applied when I built it and has a small gap where it meets... been wanting to get another of those for years, and was unhappy when the 'reissue' R2 was 2.6 "

so looks like old R2 is going to have to sacrifice himself for the greater good of the alliance ......

~ AL

[dtomko]

Yep, 3.5" for both.
I think there were posts on The Rocketry Forum a while back on doing a conversion. Mars-Lander at Yahoo Groups is a great resource, too. I don't know if anyone has actually finished one. Probably a bunch of people like me with the parts ready. Tango Papa and Kosrox both made sort of clones with BT-101 tubes. I think the Kosrox site still may have patterns for centering rings. He had them for both 18mm and 24mm motors. You would have to reduce the outer edges slightly because they're sized for BT-101, but that should not be difficult. The Outlander's legs are pointed downward much more than the ML's because of the different attachment method, but following the Estes instructions cures that (except as others have noted, it's not worth using rubber bands). The Outlander even has the plastic tubes and beads for the leg joints. Now I'm itching to start mine!
Drew

[dtomko]

Kosrox ML patterns:

http://www.tela.com/~dtkostron/lander/lander.htm

[dtomko]

Mea Culpa. My R2-D2 BT is 4" long, so you will have to lop off 1/2" for the ML. :(
Drew

[Royatl]

re: the Outlander kit ...

can anyone comment on the legs,etc - are they the same as ( or close enough) to the Mars lander ?

looks like a good start for a clone, instead of cutting the legs,etc .

Might have to add a lander tot he winter project pile .... had one in the wayback but sold it when I was flying exclusively HPR ( and low on cash, lol ) ....

~ AL

The legs are almost exactly the same. The main difference is in the elastic attachment. There's a notch in the leg where the rubber band is placed before the lower strut is attached. The other end of the rubber band hooked around a dowel hidden by the lower shouds. This is what made the rubber band nearly impossible to replace when broken. The Outlander leg has an external attachment, and the other end of the elastic is the external attachment of the opposite leg. This makes the Outlander a tad easier to fix, but it looks kinda chintzy to me.

The notch is still represented in the die/laser cut legs, as, I believe, are the holes in the bottom plate where the rubber bands would hook to the dowels, so that much could be used in a conversion. But it's been a while since I compared the two.



A minor difference is the pads are 1/4" thick instead of 1/8".

[Royatl]

Tango Papa and Kosrox both made sort of clones with BT-101 tubes. I think the Kosrox site still may have patterns for centering rings. He had them for both 18mm and 24mm motors.

The Tango-Papa lander is uber-heavy, and barely suitable for D12 motors, and if you're going for larger motors, you might as well go to his 1.6x or 2.0x upscales. But then, the Outlander is barely suitable for C6 motors.

As far as I know he still sells all three. His web site looks a bit unstable at the moment.

[Phred]

Excelsior Rocketry (That's me) has a decal set to finish the OL like a ML.

excelsiorrcoketry.com

Check under 'Classic waterslide decals', then click on ESTES.

I changed the ML logo to fit three OL missions.

BTW: My original ML has finally popped a few rubber bands.... any idea how I can get it apart to fix?


Thanks!!
Phred

[tbzep]

I've accumulated three Outlanders with various 50% off coupons. I plan to clone a Mars Lander and build an Outlander with the Mars Lander's paint and decal scheme. I haven't decided what to do with kit #3. I might save it as a replacement if something happens to the other two. I can't really get into the feel of the stock paint/decal scheme of the Outlander, so I doubt I'll build a stock version.

[kurtschachner]

BTW: My original ML has finally popped a few rubber bands.... any idea how I can get it apart to fix?



No. If you built it like the instructions said then you have to cut something to get to the attachments. Not only that, since the band is threaded through the leg prior to gluing, there is no easy way to get a new band on without cutting something else.

[kurtschachner]

Unless you're going for the "authentic look" of an original, I'd suggest using elastic shock chord material instead. This is what Estes is using in their Outlander variation of the ML.

Actually I would do this:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/7721/mlconpg.html

When I reconstructed the partially built kit I got, this is what I did. It worked very well.

[Bob H]

[QUOTE=CPMcGraw]Unless you're going for the "authentic look" of an original, I'd suggest using elastic shock chord material instead. This is what Estes is using in their Outlander variation of the ML.
QUOTE]

Actually I would do this:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/7721/mlconpg.html

When I reconstructed the partially built kit I got, this is what I did. It worked very well.
What a great idea. I would imagine that it keeps the legs from being "wobbly" . I'll have to incorporate it when I make another Outlander.