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Rocket Doctor
04-20-2009, 12:22 PM
We are now entering the 51st year of the NAR and of Estes, a name that is associated with model rocketry.

How much has been preserved over these 51 plus years, and, how much has gone into landfills?

We need to preserve what we still have, it could be in a model rocket museum or by electornic method or both.

Once these items are gone, thats it folks.

Why do we have museums, to show what we have achieved, what was in the beginning and where we are going..

The Smithsonian has a small collection of model rocket items, some from the Stine collection, some from the Carlise collection.

The Smithsonian, wants $50,000 for a display case at their Dulles facility, very small in somparison to the vast amount of model rocketry items in existance.

I would suggest a model rocket museum at the Space Camp in Huntsville, I'm sure that NASA has a building there that would house the collection. In addition, Space Camp uses model rockets in their programs. What a perfect match.

I'm sure there are many "private" collections of really great stuff, but, these items are in a private collection. They aren't being exposed to the public. If there was a museum, these items could be put on display for all to see, on loan.

I think that original prototypes should be part of any museum collection, there are not self serving to those that took part in the concept, design or final product. Once again, preserving the history of this great hobby.

Think of all the great items that have been discarded, not only by companies, but, individuals, or families of those who were in the hobby. Lost forever, we need to preserve these items.

Jerry Irvine
04-20-2009, 01:08 PM
RD, you seem to have the ear of Barry. I suggest you or someone you designate visit Penrose for a week this spring or summer, and bring a high res digital camera and scanner. Make an appointment with Barry to photograph and copy photographs of old prototypes and historical records of original models.

Then agree what small pieces can be released immediately, then put the rest in a "time capsule" marked do not open until authorized by Estes Industries.

The limiting factors in preserving history are always access and available labor.

Most of the magnetic tapes from Apollo 11 were wiped clean for reuse because someone was too cheap to archive them and buy new tapes for the "next use". No backups.

Maybe instead of giving Smithsonian $50k for a display case, we should build them a display case and make it far more model rocket specific than a display case contractor would.

Jerry

Rocket Doctor
04-20-2009, 01:31 PM
RD, you seem to have the ear of Barry. I suggest you or someone you designate visit Penrose for a week this spring or summer, and bring a high res digital camera and scanner. Make an appointment with Barry to photograph and copy photographs of old prototypes and historical records of original models.

Then agree what small pieces can be released immediately, then put the rest in a "time capsule" marked do not open until authorized by Estes Industries.

The limiting factors in preserving history are always access and available labor.

Most of the magnetic tapes from Apollo 11 were wiped clean for reuse because someone was too cheap to archive them and buy new tapes for the "next use". No backups.

Maybe instead of giving Smithsonian $50k for a display case, we should build them a display case and make it far more model rocket specific than a display case contractor would.

Jerry

Jerry

I don't think that would ever happen.
I'm not just interested in preserving the history of estes, but everyone connected to the hobby.

I know that Andelo from Sunward is interested, he said that he would keep one of each of his kits made to preserve them for posterity.

I want ALL companies to partcipate.

Like you said, the Apollo tapes are gone, and, I was told by a NASA worker in Houston that much of the early Space Program artifacts were sent to the landfill and lost forever, why, because the government didn't think that they were of any use.

Also, with the new laucnh vehicle to replace the current Shuttle fleet, NASA is reverse engineering the remaining Saturn V's and other hardware to try and get something going.

RD

Jerry Irvine
04-20-2009, 02:12 PM
Maybe, but a single visit to Penrose would get you Estes, Centuri, Mini-Max, Enerjet, and others.

A single visit to Claremont would get you 10 more.

Jerry

Rocket Doctor
04-20-2009, 02:49 PM
Maybe, but a single visit to Penrose would get you Estes, Centuri, Mini-Max, Enerjet, and others.

A single visit to Claremont would get you 10 more.

Jerry

Jerry

I did send an email to Penrose about a museum, no reply.......
Do you have contact information in Claremont?

If you like PM me with that.
Thanks
RD

johnnwwa
04-20-2009, 03:50 PM
RD
I just have a feeling when I sent you those B/W Catalog Photos awhile back that you were the right person to get them. Rocketry history preservation is important.

BAR
John

Rocket Doctor
04-20-2009, 06:18 PM
RD
I just have a feeling when I sent you those B/W Catalog Photos awhile back that you were the right person to get them. Rocketry history preservation is important.

BAR
John

YES
I would like to see as much as possible preserved from ALL companies and those individuals in the hobby.

I want to make it clear, I'm not looking for a shrine to honor Estes, but, the hobby as a whole.
Thanks again.

RD

mycrofte
04-20-2009, 06:58 PM
That is why I'm glad they made that movie "October Sky". As far as I could tell, THAT is where model rocketry started. I tried to get my college physics instructor to show it but all I got was a dumb look.

I can't even imagine trying to figure out all that stuff about the fuel that they did...

Vanel
04-20-2009, 09:35 PM
We are now entering the 51st year of the NAR and of Estes, a name that is associated with model rocketry...

I would suggest a model rocket museum at the Space Camp in Huntsville, I'm sure that NASA has a building there that would house the collection. In addition, Space Camp uses model rockets in their programs. What a perfect match.


RD,

Space Camp is not run by NASA -it is a non-profit, non-governmental organization. They would not give up free space for a model rocket museum; it costs big bucks to display even a simple exhibit.

There are no spare buildings or rooms there; heck, they have the Skylab engineering module rusting away out in the yard.

Just FYI.

GuyNoir
04-20-2009, 09:38 PM
From the most recent NAR Board meeting minutes:

NAR Historian.
The Board reviewed the report provided by NAR Historian Art Nestor. Art has energetically accumulated about 1300 historical items in the form of scanned documents (newsletters, magazines, plans, etc.), videos, and digitized photographs occupying 3 Gb of digital memory. His goal is to document the complete history of the NAR and all its sections, and to make this digital archive available, appropriately structured, on or as an adjunct to the NAR website. He is making steady progress in calling for and receiving contributions and in indexing this material.

If you've got stuff to contribute to the "pile", contact Art Nestor at nestor at fyi dot net.

Jerry Irvine
04-20-2009, 10:06 PM
That is an offer to receive, not to develop. I can receive right now too. Free. No volunteer or board vote or non-profit required.

Not impressive.

What is being done to make this "generous offer" known? Or implemented? Or labor applied?

Jerry

"NAR is not a trade association." - Mark Bundick

Royatl
04-20-2009, 10:58 PM
That is why I'm glad they made that movie "October Sky". As far as I could tell, THAT is where model rocketry started. I tried to get my college physics instructor to show it but all I got was a dumb look.

I can't even imagine trying to figure out all that stuff about the fuel that they did...


Actually, model rocketry started as a reaction *against* the way they were initially doing it in Coalwood. Fortunately, Homer and Quentin were smart enough to figure out the proper ways of doing amateur rocketry. Also, model rocketry was well underway by the time Homer and Quentin and the others got a working rocket going. The book was great, but I'm not fond of how people have equated the two activities, and have made the Coalwood Rocket Boys the heroes of model rocketry.

The inspiration was the same, however.

And still, I got Homer to autograph my Phantom 4000. :)

mycrofte
04-21-2009, 04:36 AM
That was the main point I took from the movie. Not so much as 'who' did it but how it went back then. I've seen all the History Channel stuff about how 'model rocketry' was banned in Germany before WWII.

As you said; "the inspiration"...

GuyNoir
04-21-2009, 05:51 AM
That is an offer to receive, not to develop.

I guess you missed the "make this digital archive available" part.

Rocket Doctor
04-21-2009, 08:07 AM
RD,

Space Camp is not run by NASA -it is a non-profit, non-governmental organization. They would not give up free space for a model rocket museum; it costs big bucks to display even a simple exhibit.

There are no spare buildings or rooms there; heck, they have the Skylab engineering module rusting away out in the yard.

Just FYI.

Ii know that Space Camp is not associated with NASA, but, right next door, is the NASA facility, there are buildings there.

I was at adult space camp many years ago and took the NASA tour.

With a museum next to space camp, many youngsters would benefit, compared to the Smithsonian, where they want $50,000 for a small display case.

tbzep
04-21-2009, 08:34 AM
Ii know that Space Camp is not associated with NASA, but, right next door, is the NASA facility, there are buildings there.

I was at adult space camp many years ago and took the NASA tour.

With a museum next to space camp, many youngsters would benefit, compared to the Smithsonian, where they want $50,000 for a small display case.

Isn't the museum a private for-profit business? They used to sell Estes rockets there. A small display next to a wall of kits might make them some money, but the last time I was there, they had the whole front end of the museum packed with other stuff.

Jerry Irvine
04-21-2009, 09:30 AM
It is pretty common for museums to be non-profit organizations or public services and have a gift shop to offset the costs of salaries and utilities. Donations usually are used for purchasing collections or paying for conveyance of donated collections to the museum property.

Jerry

Vanel
04-21-2009, 09:36 AM
Ii know that Space Camp is not associated with NASA, but, right next door, is the NASA facility, there are buildings there.

I was at adult space camp many years ago and took the NASA tour.

With a museum next to space camp, many youngsters would benefit, compared to the Smithsonian, where they want $50,000 for a small display case.


Marshall Space Flight Center (where I work) is not exactly "next door". And because we sit on Redstone Arsenal, a military base, access is highly restricted. The general public cannot access NASA buildings without going through a background check and receiving a badge.

The NASA tours have been discontinued since 9/11.

There are no NASA buildings in Huntsville outside of Redstone Arsenal.

Doug Sams
04-21-2009, 09:55 AM
Marshall Space Flight Center (where I work) is not exactly "next door". And because we sit on Redstone Arsenal, a military base, access is highly restricted. The general public cannot access NASA buildings without going through a background check and receiving a badge.

The NASA tours have been discontinued since 9/11.

There are no NASA buildings in Huntsville outside of Redstone Arsenal.I took the bus tour there several years ago. We left the center with the rocket garden and Saturn V's, and drove south of the center. We saw quite a few rockets erected as static displays along the way. Many of them were V-2 variants. They showed us Von Braun's test stand and bunker, made from a railroad tank car. Are you saying most of this stuff is no longer accessible?

I wonder if the Air Force side of the Cape is no longer accessible, too...

Doug

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Rocket Doctor
04-21-2009, 10:48 AM
Ii know that Space Camp is not associated with NASA, but, right next door, is the NASA facility, there are buildings there.

I was at adult space camp many years ago and took the NASA tour.

With a museum next to space camp, many youngsters would benefit, compared to the Smithsonian, where they want $50,000 for a small display case.

When I say museum, I mean a seperate facility dedicated soley to model rocketry of all types, not just the little stuff.

I propose an all inclusive museum, not a shrive for Estes materials.

I'm sure there is land nearby to have such a facility, and, I also took the tour of the NASA facility next door, they showed us the modules for the space station in a hangar.

FYI
I went to view the test stands of Reaction Motors in Dover NJ, jpart of the Picatinny Arsenal, I did need to get a clearance and was shown the test stand reas for the XLR-11 and XLR-99 motors for the Bell X-1 and the X-15. They said that I could take all the pictures that I wanted to.

Rocket Doctor
04-21-2009, 10:50 AM
Marshall Space Flight Center (where I work) is not exactly "next door". And because we sit on Redstone Arsenal, a military base, access is highly restricted. The general public cannot access NASA buildings without going through a background check and receiving a badge.

The NASA tours have been discontinued since 9/11.

There are no NASA buildings in Huntsville outside of Redstone Arsenal.

Bill
Could you provide to me contact information on your facility. send to me a PM.
Thanks
RD

Vanel
04-21-2009, 05:53 PM
Are you saying most of this stuff is no longer accessible?

Doug



It's accessible if you have a NASA or DoD sponsor for your visit and you are willing to provide personal data so the military can conduct a background check.

Your sponsor will have to escort you to the Redstone rocket park. Access to the test stands is more restricted.

Vanel
04-21-2009, 05:56 PM
Bill
Could you provide to me contact information on your facility. send to me a PM.
Thanks
RD

RD,

I am only allowed to direct you to the public MSFC site: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/home/index.html

Marshall is unique among the NASA centers in that it is totally enclosed by a very active military base. We are not like JPL or JSC.

sandman
04-21-2009, 07:14 PM
RD,

I am only allowed to direct you to the public MSFC site: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/home/index.html

Marshall is unique among the NASA centers in that it is totally enclosed by a very active military base. We are not like JPL or JSC.

Yes, but it is sooooo cool.

It did feel like I was transported back to the 60's.

Not THAT part of the 60's! :mad: The space program part! :rolleyes:

Doug Sams
04-21-2009, 08:14 PM
It did feel like I was transported back to the 60's.The 60's? I grew up in the shadow of Ft Knox. Everytime I get on base, I feel like I've been transported back to 1942.

Doug

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