New Semroc xKits?

[conleyt]

Hmmmm...when I look here:

http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/ClassicKits.asp

I see Trident and Spaceman listed as xKits.......... :D

Tom C.

[Ltvscout]

Hmmmm...when I look here:

http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/ClassicKits.asp

I see Trident and Spaceman listed as xKits.......... :D

Tom C.
Ya, I saw that a number of days ago, but figured I'd let Carl tell everyone about it. They have a new way of selling those xKits, but I'll let him explain it to everyone.

[motley16]

How does one order the trident? Do you simply click on each item down the page and order it? or is there an easy way to just click on one spot for all parts to have entire kit?

[cas2047]

That's great news.

I've been trying to snag a Trident off of ebay for over a year now and haven't been able to get one at anywhere near what I would consider a reasonable price.

[conleyt]

Ya, I saw that a number of days ago, but figured I'd let Carl tell everyone about it. They have a new way of selling those xKits, but I'll let him explain it to everyone.

Oops, my bad! :o

Carl?!?

Tom C.

[sandman]

If you do a search at the top of SEMROC's home page it comes up as a kit $33.50 and "Coming Soon".

So not quite yet. ;)

[Mark II]

The Spaceman is listed as "Back Ordered" and it carries a price of $5.00. It would tie the Triton as the least expensive kit in Semroc's catalog.

MarkII

[motley16]

If you do a search at the top of SEMROC's home page it comes up as a kit $33.50 and "Coming Soon".

So not quite yet. ;)
sweet.....cant wait. Gotta get 2. Tried for a long time on ebay too pricey for me.

[dwmzmm]

Cool! I've been wanting to get a standard size Trident for a long time myself. Carl and SEMROC comes to the rescue once again!

[chanstevens]

Oops, my bad! :o

Carl?!?

Tom C.

I think the process Scott was referring to is that for many of the older classics, Semroc doesn't offer a kit, per se, but they offer all of the necessary parts. If someone wanted to clone a classic kit, they'd normally have to grab a set of plans from a site like Jim Z's archives, then order up the parts from someone like Semroc or BMS. Often this meant a small hassle figuring out what the seller calls their version of the original part. Carl/Semroc has made this easier by listing all of their part numbers used on that kit on a single page with convenient "add to cart" buttons.

These are not quite the same as their xKits--you'd just get a bag of parts, and in this example Semroc does not offer a set of decals. You just get parts. For the xKits, you get the bag of parts, decals, and a little background sheet/header card, but no instructions (just a link to Jim Z's page). A full "kit" from Semroc includes parts, decals, and complete instructions.

Someone around here might post a fresh copy of the link to Carl's clone page (unless this has replaced it?), which typically displayed a list of classic kits and whether it was available in kit form, xKit, a la cart/all parts, or short/some parts not offered.

--Chan Stevens (not a Semroc employee but I have an honorary name badge and they pay me not to fly their stuff at national events any more :o )

[sandman]

I think the process Scott was referring to is that for many of the older classics, Semroc doesn't offer a kit, per se, but they offer all of the necessary parts. If someone wanted to clone a classic kit, they'd normally have to grab a set of plans from a site like Jim Z's archives, then order up the parts from someone like Semroc or BMS. Often this meant a small hassle figuring out what the seller calls their version of the original part. Carl/Semroc has made this easier by listing all of their part numbers used on that kit on a single page with convenient "add to cart" buttons.

These are not quite the same as their xKits--you'd just get a bag of parts, and in this example Semroc does not offer a set of decals. You just get parts. For the xKits, you get the bag of parts, decals, and a little background sheet/header card, but no instructions (just a link to Jim Z's page). A full "kit" from Semroc includes parts, decals, and complete instructions.

Someone around here might post a fresh copy of the link to Carl's clone page (unless this has replaced it?), which typically displayed a list of classic kits and whether it was available in kit form, xKit, a la cart/all parts, or short/some parts not offered.

--Chan Stevens (not a Semroc employee but I have an honorary name badge and they pay me not to fly their stuff at national events any more :o )

Not sure if Phred ever made the decals for the Trident but I do have an original set that I will scan and put into my repitoire when I get everything settled.

I think that is a must have decal set!

[dwmzmm]

Not sure if Phred ever made the decals for the Trident but I do have an original set that I will scan and put into my repitoire when I get everything settled.

I think that is a must have decal set!

I hope that's true. I ordered (last year) from SEMROC the parts needed to build the clone
of Estes' Thor - Agena B but had to use black monokote adhesive to "make" the black stripes and other markings. It was a real pain, but at least it did the job. Would have been
nice to have had the waterslide decals, though.

[sandman]

I hope that's true. I ordered (last year) from SEMROC the parts needed to build the clone
of Estes' Thor - Agena B but had to use black monokote adhesive to "make" the black stripes and other markings. It was a real pain, but at least it did the job. Would have been
nice to have had the waterslide decals, though.

Carl and I talked. We may work out something. ;)

[foose4string]

Carl and I talked. We may work out something. ;)


Referring to the Trident or the Thor Agena B? The Trident is white. The Trident should be easy enough on the inkjet or laser. 'Course, nothing beats the Alps for aftermarket decals.

[kurtschachner]

'Course, nothing beats the Alps for aftermarket decals.

Actually, real screen printed decals are far superior. Unfortunately, screen printing (for decals at least) is rapidly becoming a lost art.

[kurtschachner]

Not sure if Phred ever made the decals for the Trident but I do have an original set that I will scan and put into my repitoire when I get everything settled.

I think that is a must have decal set!

The original Trident never had decals. For markings they had you draw on cellophane tape and apply that to the rocket.

I have a set on my site that are from the Trident II, just with extra elements for the third tube. Those are what you see most of the time.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Actually, real screen printed decals are far superior. Unfortunately, screen printing (for decals at least) is rapidly becoming a lost art.

Strange when you consider that the technology we have available today seems like it would lend itself to cutting the screens necessary for this process. :confused:

[foose4string]

Actually, real screen printed decals are far superior. Unfortunately, screen printing (for decals at least) is rapidly becoming a lost art.

True, but as you mentioned, it's a lost art. Getting set up to screen print decals takes much more time, effort, space, and isn't exactly the best method for printing off one or two sheets at a time. A computer, printer, and computer file doesn't take up as much space as a whole screen printing shop and far less hassle(although some of the people I know with alps might argue otherwise :D ) I was referring to what has been typically available and most easily obtainable for the scratch/cloning rocketry hobbyist and small time kit manufacturer. ;)

[kurtschachner]

That's true for the most part. The problems with Alps printers (and I have two) are that the printers themselves are awfully finicky and the print media (cartridges) were discontinued in the US market a couple of years ago. So either you have to import them yourself from Japan or you use the OKI inks instead. The printers themselves were discontinued even longer ago, and when they break, it's pretty much the end of the road.

The other problem is how soft the "ink" is. Not only soft but there's virtually no adhesion to the decal media. So they are prone to scratching. Some laser printers and/or laser copiers are better in this regard. They have a fusing temperature that will bond the toner to the decal paper, at least to some extent. Unfortunately not all laser printers are the same, some don't bond the toner to the paper at all. This makes only a mess :mad:

Back in the late 90's when I started cloning decals, there was one Kinko's in northwestern Milwaukee that had this old copier that made beautiful decals. It was the only one Kinko's would allow me to put the decal paper through, and by sheer chance it made fantastic decals. The toner was well fused to the paper and the colors were vibrant. Alas, those days are gone. Of course it couldn't print white either so that was a limitation.

Yet another problem with any printer is that you are limited to the printer's gamut. Some old decals just can't be printed no matter what it is you are using. Of course you can always change the color to suit your printer. Fortunately most decals were red, black, white or yellow. That helps in cloning. But take the Andromeda for example. That isn't a red decal. But red is all you are likely to find on a cloned decal. The original was reddish-orange and that's a color that is outside any current printer's gamut.

I had the decals for my Saturn 1b clone kits screen printed. The company I found back in 1996 or 1997 did a fantastic job at a very reasonable price. I wanted to get a set of Andromeda and Scrambler decals screen printed (a good, deep yellow is also difficult to reproduce) but unfortunately the company I used before went out of business. Anyplace else I found wanted 4-5 times the price of the other one! Forget that, nobody is going to pay that price for a set of decals.

[Mark II]

Way back in the Pleistocene era, before I started my "real" career, I worked as a screen printer (a serigrapher) for awhile in a couple of busy shops on Long Island. We printed just about anything, on just about anything, from tiny to huge! (Does anyone remember those giant conference table-sized posters that supermarkets would put in their front windows every week to advertise their specials? Well, guess whose job it was in our shop to print them? :D )

We printed many other things, too, including, for example, table clock and wristwatch faces and really finely-detailed decals and stickers for the aerospace industry. Setting up the screens for the decals and stickers wasn't any harder than it was for anything else, but it did require the expenditure of some supplies, the dedication of some (small format) assets, and a demanding eye for detail. A stencil was needed for each color separation, but as in other forms of color printing, some colors could be created by overprinting other colors. (You could produce a 5 or 6 color graphic with 4 screens, for example.) Although most of our runs were in the hundreds, we also did some small runs, too. A stencil that was set up on a screen printing machine could last for several hundred, or even a thousand, prints. The key to durability was printing quickly and efficiently on clean media with appropriate pressure; semi-automated serigraph machines were good for that. If a decal stencil was kept "wet" during use and then promptly cleaned, dried and then covered during storage to keep dust or other contaminants off of it, it could be brought out periodically and used for short runs, and we did that with a few of the stencils that we used.

The screen material itself is amazing durable if it is promptly and thoroughly cleaned and properly stored. We reused screens many dozens, or even hundreds, of times before we needed to replace them.

It wasn't any harder or any more costly to make sharp, perfectly printed decals than it was to make bad ones; you just had to care enough to get everything set up right. The shop that I mainly worked in was geared for high production, though; hence, the automation. But we still pulled many jobs by hand, too (those giant grocery store posters, for example). I did plenty of both - setting up and running machines (and continuously monitoring the quality of the output and the condition of the screen) and pulling prints by hand during my tenure in the industry.

I really do miss serigraphy; I even studied it in college, and it was one of my passions when I was just starting my adult life. (After all these years and all of these moves, I still have most of my supplies from my serigraphy studio courses in college.) I have often thought about starting up a decal printing business in the past few years, but unfortunately, I have never had the money available to set myself up for it.

MarkII

[Mark II]

One of the advantages of screen printing over creating graphics with an Alps printer is that you can print on other materials besides paper or film, including materials that aren't flat. You can print directly onto balsa, for instance... ;)

You can even print directly onto curved or contoured surfaces. :cool:

MarkII

[Spaceclipper]

Just arrived is a nice box of kits and parts from Semroc, very fast shipping and good service by the way. Received the new Spaceman xkit that I've wanted to build since I first got into rocketry back in 1972, also received parts for a Mach 10 , only need mylar rings to complete it but will try making my own by wrapping mylar around motor tube and epoxying. Also received the Centuri Beginners special parts pack.. I think is a hidden secret at Semroc that they have the parts packs. Finishing it out is The Point and Javelin.. Have quite a bit of building to do as the list gets longer. :D

Spaceclipper

[Ltvscout]

only need mylar rings to complete it but will try making my own by wrapping mylar around motor tube and epoxying.
Semroc has those mylar rings as well. I don't have the link handy but I'm sure someone will chime in with the link for you.

[Chas Russell]

HR-20 - six pieces for $1.50.

Chas

[Jerry Irvine]

I think the process Scott was referring to is that for many of the older classics, Semroc doesn't offer a kit, per se, but they offer all of the necessary parts. If someone wanted to clone a classic kit, they'd normally have to grab a set of plans from a site like Jim Z's archives, then order up the parts from someone like Semroc or BMS.

So does this mean that rather than selling a kit they could sell a "grab bag" of parts and a URL to the plans, for the same price as a kit (or a tiny bit higher) to capitalize any kit specific parts they might have to develop for popular future kits?

Jerry

[Spaceclipper]

It would seem so, I know they have the parts for the Centuri Black Widow two stage and many others. If you go to their parts section for fins you'll see they have a lot of fins available that you could use with their other parts to come up with a kit. The Trident is another classic that they have all of the parts and laser cut fins for. You could order all the parts and have a kit , just need to make decals..

[Spaceclipper]

Thanks for the info on the rings. I'm searching the Semroc site but can't find them. If anyone has a link...
Thanks
Spaceclipper

[conleyt]

Thanks for the info on the rings. I'm searching the Semroc site but can't find them. If anyone has a link...
Thanks
Spaceclipper

Is this it?

http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1827

Tom C.

[Spaceclipper]

Yes,
that's them. Looks like I'll have to put in another order :rolleyes:
Thank you for finding them.
Spaceclipper