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gerryfortin
05-29-2009, 07:35 AM
All....please note that I've added a Hang Tag (Header Card) guide to the Estes kit databases. The guide is complete through 1978 and I do wish the senior collectors to view and agree with the guide before it sees mass usage. Here is the link; http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/BAR/kitpages/hangtag_guide.htm

The link to Hang Tag guide is located at the top of each kit database page for easy reference.

Next week, will continue the guide into the black paper hang tags and then into the plastic era.

Feedback is welcomed...

Special thanks to Mojo for his help.

Ltvscout
05-29-2009, 07:37 AM
That's a great addition, Gerry! Thanks for all your hard work. I'll be adding links for your site to Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe when I get around to my updates.

Phred
05-29-2009, 10:57 AM
Thanks so much. This has finally allowed me to sort my Alpha collection, and identify what I still need.

Phred

gerryfortin
05-29-2009, 01:54 PM
A mid day update.....

I was able to photo the plastic hang tags up through mid 90s and they are also posted. Not much sense with taking this guide further for the time being.

Hope everyone finds the guide useful. It certainly will help me with the database tables and knowing which kits spanned multiple hang tag designs.

On a different subject. My wife finally saw the number of Estes rockets in the collection since I emptied all of the storage boxes in the basement and sorted the kits by hang tag designs for accomplishing the guide. She was good humored about the basement now being a "model rocket store".

mojo1986
05-30-2009, 09:31 AM
Gerry, great work! I do have a couple of comments...............

Your tag #3 (double oval) exists in two varieties, the yellow, and the much rarer red one. The red one is identical to the yellow one except for the color.

Your tags numbered 4 to 6 are from Estes' Skill Level kits, and are sometimes called 'Skill Level tags' as a result. There were 5 tag colors:

Yellow denoted skill level 1
Pink........................................2
Blue........................................3
Green.....................................4
Red.........................................5

Although not the only Skill 5 kit, the K-41 Mercury-Redstone was the only kit to have a red skill level tag (the other skill 5 kits were all boxed, and included the Mars Lander, Saturn 1B and Saturn V). Many veteran builders, however, will tell you that the K-41 was the only TRUE skill 5 kit. More information can be found in the 1973 Estes catalog on page 3.

Joe

gerryfortin
05-31-2009, 06:21 AM
Hi Joe.............Many thanks for the addtional information. I knew that you would come through with more insight.

Please check the Hang Tag page to ensure that the new information was properly captured

Rocket Doctor
05-31-2009, 09:01 AM
Great stuff gerry.....

Would it be possible to put the info into PDF form?

L3Excalibur
05-31-2009, 12:08 PM
[QUOTE=gerryfortin]All....please note that I've added a Hang Tag (Header Card) guide to the Estes kit databases. The guide is complete through 1978 and I do wish the senior collectors to view and agree with the guide before it sees mass usage. Here is the link; http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/BAR/kitpages/hangtag_guide.htm


Great work! I have to take issue with the use of the 'Post Damon Era' description of 1970s hang tags, though. They were simply 'Damon era'. Post-Damon era would be after Damon sold off Estes.

Another point...Your 'Pre-1970, Pre-Damon' hang tag should actually be listed as '1969 to early 1970'. Estes got their bagging system sometime in middle to late 1969, I believe, just before the sale to Damon. The the new Damon tags were introduced in new kits in 1970 then existing kits were switched as stocks of the old header, and kits bagged with the old header, ran out.

Finally, the 1980-81 multi-color hang tag has also been referred to as the 'Rainbow' hang tag.

Buzz "I'm not really a collector" McDermott
a.k.a. The 'other' Buzz

Rocket Doctor
05-31-2009, 06:02 PM
FYI

Damon purchased Estes from Vern in December 1969.

gerryfortin
06-01-2009, 04:13 PM
Rock Doc....

Thanks for the inputs. I have changed the Post Damon Era to Damon Era for countdown and double oval hang tags.

Also added the "rainbow" designation to the 1980 vintage multi color hangtags.

BTW.....I just posted a 1386 Asteroid Explorer as a kit description page. The 1386 kit is in the catalogs 1982-1984 but the imaged kit is pink facecard with pink hang tag circa 1977-1979. I would expect to see the 1386 Asteroid Explorer to have a black paper hangtag with blue lettering. http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/BAR/kitpages/1386_asteroidexplorer.htm

Any insights to offer?

mojo1986
06-01-2009, 04:29 PM
Gerry, where did you get your information regarding the years used for each type of hangtag? Obviously the Asteroid Explorer was issued during the 'Skill Level' era. My records indicate that the kit was produced during the years '82-'84. Either that is wrong, or your timeframe for Skill Level kits (up to 1979) is incorrect.

Joe

mojo1986
06-01-2009, 04:32 PM
Update...............I just checked my 1982 catalog and the Asteroid Explorer is listed as a new kit. But Estes was still using the 'Skill Level' theme, so you will need to revisit the years of service data for those hangtags.

Joe

Rocket Doctor
06-01-2009, 08:18 PM
Rock Doc....

Thanks for the inputs. I have changed the Post Damon Era to Damon Era for countdown and double oval hang tags.

Also added the "rainbow" designation to the 1980 vintage multi color hangtags.

BTW.....I just posted a 1386 Asteroid Explorer as a kit description page. The 1386 kit is in the catalogs 1982-1984 but the imaged kit is pink facecard with pink hang tag circa 1977-1979. I would expect to see the 1386 Asteroid Explorer to have a black paper hangtag with blue lettering. http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/BAR/kitpages/1386_asteroidexplorer.htm

Any insights to offer?

Hello Gerry

There were a few specialty items, I haven't gone over your list with a fine tooth come, but, you seem to have a great list.

I will look through what I have and offer to you that information here later.

Thanks again for such a great job on these .
Best

RD

gerryfortin
06-01-2009, 09:39 PM
Gerry, where did you get your information regarding the years used for each type of hangtag? Obviously the Asteroid Explorer was issued during the 'Skill Level' era. My records indicate that the kit was produced during the years '82-'84. Either that is wrong, or your timeframe for Skill Level kits (up to 1979) is incorrect.

Joe

Joe...I've been working under the assumption that Estes was not shipping kits with different hang tag generations as an operational policy. Now I believe that assumption is not valid. Yes, Estes could have extra hang tag supplies and needed to exhaust into the subsequent year. But the case of the #1386 Asteroid Explorer brings up an important question, "Was Estes simultaneously shipping kits with Skill Level colors (hang tag and face card) while launching other products with the Rainbow hang tags and the Black paper tag with blue letters?" I believe the answer is yes. Estes had multiple kit development and production programs in parallel.

As a result, the hangtag usage timeframes are not accurate.

mojo1986
06-02-2009, 12:05 PM
Gerry, I agree that is a likely scenario. You can nail down the 'Skill Level' hangtag years fairly closely by consulting your catalogs, as I did to check out the Asteroid Explorer. It was quite obvious that the Skill Level theme was still being used at that point. There may be similar clues that will fix usage dates for the other hangtags as well. You can also use pages 5 and 6 of the database I sent to you which gives you kit production years. That, coupled with photos that show up regularly on Ebay, should establish hangtag usage quite accurately.

Joe