Was in Penrose, Co today

[Paul]

On a return trip to California from Texas (I'm taking the long way), I passed through Penrose, Co, today. I had to stop by the Estes plant to see the source of all my childhood joy. However, the facility looked pretty run-down--overgrown with weeds and shrubs, in need of paint, and so on. A sign on the front door told me that the retail store had closed in 1994 and that public tours were no longer given, so I didn't go any further. There were some cars in the lot, though, so I don't think the place was abandoned. Does Estes still manufacture rockets and engines at this facility?

[Leo]

That's kinda sad to read :(

[Royatl]

On a return trip to California from Texas (I'm taking the long way), I passed through Penrose, Co, today. I had to stop by the Estes plant to see the source of all my childhood joy. However, the facility looked pretty run-down--overgrown with weeds and shrubs, in need of paint, and so on. A sign on the front door told me that the retail store had closed in 1994 and that public tours were no longer given, so I didn't go any further. There were some cars in the lot, though, so I don't think the place was abandoned. Does Estes still manufacture rockets and engines at this facility?

They manufacture engines way out back, but mostly they are just a warehousing and shipping facility. They may even drop-ship most things to walmart directly from china. I assume the R&D and marketing departments are still in the main building. They have said they want to move some manufacturing back here, but I don't know how much of that has been done.

They announced back in the spring that they were for sale, but if they aren't keeping up the appearance of the physical plant, I wonder how serious they are (or Barry's holding out till the recession eases)?

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Estes_Industries

(edit) by the way, the Google Mobile has apparently been by the Estes plant, so you can "drive" by, on both Hwy 50 and on H Street using Street View.

[Leo]

...http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Estes_Industries

(edit) by the way, the Google Mobile has apparently been by the Estes plant, so you can "drive" by, on both Hwy 50 and on H Street using Street View.

Thanks for pointing that out :)

[GregGleason]

That's kinda sad to read :(


I agree that it is very sad that things have come to this. It gives me a greater appreciation for Quest, Semroc, and AeroTech.

Greg

[chanstevens]

Seems like it's been that way for some time:

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=3696

[GregGleason]

Seems like it's been that way for some time:

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=3696

Thanks for the link, Chan. I had not read that before. It seems that the late 60's and early 70's were a great time for Estes and Detroit (loved those muscle cars). Now both are languishing. Sigh.

Greg

[luke strawwalker]

On a return trip to California from Texas (I'm taking the long way), I passed through Penrose, Co, today. I had to stop by the Estes plant to see the source of all my childhood joy. However, the facility looked pretty run-down--overgrown with weeds and shrubs, in need of paint, and so on. A sign on the front door told me that the retail store had closed in 1994 and that public tours were no longer given, so I didn't go any further. There were some cars in the lot, though, so I don't think the place was abandoned. Does Estes still manufacture rockets and engines at this facility?

I saw the same thing about this time last year when I went through Penrose-- I even posted a thread like this about it when I got back home to Texas.

AFAIK, the facilities are still in use, at least for the domestic production of Estes (not sure how much Chinese stuff they are still producing or selling given the Chinese lead concerns of the past year or two, so that may be the whole shebang?) I too noticed how shabby and unkempt everything looked-- weeds in the parking lot, peeling paint, stuff like that. I too was hoping for the nickel tour or at least visit the 'company store' and all I got was a flustered receptionist giving me the polite brushoff through the intercom when she found out I wasn't some salesman or executive with an appointment with a manager or something. It's kinda sad.

I know that you can conduct business in a place with peeling paint and weeds in the parking lot, but appearances, while certainly not everything, are important and shabby looks don't inspire much confidence. I mean, I know things are tight, but how much does a little paint and some Roundup herbicide cost, or even a good lawn mowing job a few times a year?? Surely there has to be SOMEBODY on the payroll who's "polishing wrenches" part of the time that could periodically be assigned to spiffing things up a bit??

I looked through the glass of the entry portico and could see the static models in what must've been the old reception area/storefront back in the day... I understand with insurance regulations and stuff that tours are probably impossible or impractical, but surely they could have SOME sort of mini-display of products available for the star-struck rocket touristas to see in the lobby, and maybe a rack with a few hangtag kits in the corner or something. It shouldn't swamp the receptionist so much that she couldn't do her job, because I'm SURE that there couldn't be more than a few folks a week that would stop in... a little courtesy goes a long way ya know... :)

If you were in Colorado Springs I hope you visited Apogee Components-- Michelle (the receptionist) played with my little 3 1/2 year old daughter with a tiny little spring-loaded "rocket pen" complete with launch pad and chatted with my wife while I looked around and visited with Tim Van Milligan, who took the time to come out of his office and say hello and chat a couple minutes. Michelle also gave us the nickel tour, which was basically just showing us around the front office and tour of the plant, which is mostly warehouse since kits are usually assembled from pre-ordered parts, so is basically a big "repackaging job" so to speak. It was cool though nevertheless. I bought a few kits and stuff while there and had a nice time for the 30-45 minutes I was there. It's easy to find-- about two blocks behind the Motel 6 on the main freeway through Colorado Springs in a little industrial park off the north side of the road.

I didn't get that far west, but next time I hope to get over to Pagosa Springs and at least see the Quest plant... I've heard Nettie will show you around there and chat a bit... :)

Later! OL JR :)

[luke strawwalker]

Thanks for the link, Chan. I had not read that before. It seems that the late 60's and early 70's were a great time for Estes and Detroit (loved those muscle cars). Now both are languishing. Sigh.

Greg

Oh man, are you ever right! I was just in Detroit last month while vacationing at the MIL's and we took a little road trip up to Frankenmuth, Michigan, just east of Saginaw (in fact we spent the night in Saginaw), and saw the world's largest Christmas store (Bronner's) and ate at the Bavarian Inn (AWESOME German food, fried chicken, etc) and hit the cheese shops and candy shops, bakeries, and tourista shops the next day... GREAT little place to visit!

I thought parts of Houston were run down til I saw DETROIT... geez it makes even the dumpy parts of Houston look good! Parts of Detroit look like nothing's been done there since the 40's. We took a side trip to Detroit so I could go to Commonwealth Displays down in Southgate (SW Detroit). Everyone was really nice and I picked up a kit and some supplies and they graciously gave me an old store copy of the ROTW poster that was available awhile back. Even Detroit looks good compared to Flint, Michigan... MAN, that whole place looks ready for a D-6 Caterpillar...

It's a shame, really... but times change I guess... way things are going, the whole country may end up looking like that before it's over...

Later! OL JR :)

PS. Hey Greg, who do you fly with?? You aught to come out to Needville and fly with us here at Challenger 498 sometime... we'd love to meet ya! JR :)

[GregGleason]

PS. Hey Greg, who do you fly with?? You aught to come out to Needville and fly with us here at Challenger 498 sometime... we'd love to meet ya! JR :)

Thank you for the invitation and I will tentatively accept. Typically I fly with Tripoli Houston, which uses the Hearne launch site. But I haven't been to a launch since April because of other commitments. I hope to make a launch as soon as my schedule settles down. I don't know when I will be able to get to Needville but I will plan to attend a launch before the end of the year. Are children welcome? I have a few .... and they have rockets! :D

Greg

[JRThro]

Thank you for the invitation and I will tentatively accept. Typically I fly with Tripoli Houston, which uses the Hearne launch site. But I haven't been to a launch since April because of other commitments. I hope to make a launch as soon as my schedule settles down. I don't know when I will be able to get to Needville but I will plan to attend a launch before the end of the year. Are children welcome? I have a few .... and they have rockets! :D

Greg
Children are definitely welcome, especially with rockets!

[sandman]

Oh man, are you ever right! I was just in Detroit last month while vacationing at the MIL's and we took a little road trip up to Frankenmuth, Michigan, just east of Saginaw (in fact we spent the night in Saginaw), and saw the world's largest Christmas store (Bronner's) and ate at the Bavarian Inn (AWESOME German food, fried chicken, etc) and hit the cheese shops and candy shops, bakeries, and tourista shops the next day... GREAT little place to visit!

I thought parts of Houston were run down til I saw DETROIT... geez it makes even the dumpy parts of Houston look good! Parts of Detroit look like nothing's been done there since the 40's. We took a side trip to Detroit so I could go to Commonwealth Displays down in Southgate (SW Detroit). Everyone was really nice and I picked up a kit and some supplies and they graciously gave me an old store copy of the ROTW poster that was available awhile back. Even Detroit looks good compared to Flint, Michigan... MAN, that whole place looks ready for a D-6 Caterpillar...

It's a shame, really... but times change I guess... way things are going, the whole country may end up looking like that before it's over...

Later! OL JR :)

PS. Hey Greg, who do you fly with?? You aught to come out to Needville and fly with us here at Challenger 498 sometime... we'd love to meet ya! JR :)


Detroit has looked like that since the early 60's when my family moved out.

It got worse in the later 60's when the riots started and honestly has never and probably will never recover.

There are some beautiful old building that are just forgotten, run down, stripped and lived in by homeless.

[luke strawwalker]

Thank you for the invitation and I will tentatively accept. Typically I fly with Tripoli Houston, which uses the Hearne launch site. But I haven't been to a launch since April because of other commitments. I hope to make a launch as soon as my schedule settles down. I don't know when I will be able to get to Needville but I will plan to attend a launch before the end of the year. Are children welcome? I have a few .... and they have rockets! :D

Greg

Sure! We love kids! We fly on our farm here, 87 acres of short grass and surrounded by mostly open farm fields. It's a working cattle ranch, but crossfenced into roughly 20-ish acre blocks so the cows are fenced out into other pastures for the launches.

Other than the cracks in the ground from the drought it's all pretty much pool-table flat with no trees for at least 1/4 mile in any given direction.

Come on out when you get a chance, and bring the younguns with ya... My four and a half year old daughter Keira always likes to meet new kids, and we usually have a few others come out to launches with their folks too.

Later! OL JR :)

[luke strawwalker]

Detroit has looked like that since the early 60's when my family moved out.

It got worse in the later 60's when the riots started and honestly has never and probably will never recover.

There are some beautiful old building that are just forgotten, run down, stripped and lived in by homeless.

Yes, it IS sad... rather spooky in a way... never expected to see that sort of thing in AMERICA...

I mean, yeah, especially if you go down to the Valley and areas near Mexico, especially in the larger cities (though none are particularly "large" as cities go) there are SOME abandoned buildings and stuff, but most old buildings are put to SOME sort of use-- mechanic shops, antique or junk stores, whatever...) Just seeing a bunch of ABANDONED buildings rotting down INSIDE A CITY is just, weird. Seems like it'd be sold for the real estate location and whatever's there would be dozed and something new in it's place. That's what typically happens in TX, especially in the cities. Stuff just sitting there for DECADES though-- man... it's just weird.

So I guess the gov't owns all that abandoned stuff because whoever had it years ago went out of business and quit paying the taxes, or what?? So basically the gov't out there doesn't see any value in dozing it and selling the land and returning it to taxable property?? Heck, just dozing it so it's not an unsightly mess with the aura of a ghost town?? I mean, yeah, we have POOR areas here in TX, but usually stuff doesn't just sit around for decades ROTTING DOWN...

Like I said, it's just 'weird' from my perspective... OL JR :)

[stefanj]

Big chunks of New York City looked pretty bad in the 1970s, leading to all sorts of overheated "the cities will be abandoned" predictions.

What eventually happened was a continuation of the long cycle of decay and renewal. Bad neighborhoods get "resettled" by artists looking for cheap studio space, trendy boutique districts follow, hollow shells of buildings get turned into high-priced lofts, and voila! Former slum becomes a overpriced yuppie haven.

By coincidence Boing Boing posted this today:

James D. Griffioen's photos of Detroit, "the disappearing city" (http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/30/james-d-griffioens-p.html)

Look at this house:
http://www.boingboing.net/200907301312.jpg
Some people will look at that and think of Mad Max or zombie movies. Others will think "Ooooh, that would make a great Bed and Breakfast!"

[sandman]

Yes, it IS sad... rather spooky in a way... never expected to see that sort of thing in AMERICA...

I mean, yeah, especially if you go down to the Valley and areas near Mexico, especially in the larger cities (though none are particularly "large" as cities go) there are SOME abandoned buildings and stuff, but most old buildings are put to SOME sort of use-- mechanic shops, antique or junk stores, whatever...) Just seeing a bunch of ABANDONED buildings rotting down INSIDE A CITY is just, weird. Seems like it'd be sold for the real estate location and whatever's there would be dozed and something new in it's place. That's what typically happens in TX, especially in the cities. Stuff just sitting there for DECADES though-- man... it's just weird.

So I guess the gov't owns all that abandoned stuff because whoever had it years ago went out of business and quit paying the taxes, or what?? So basically the gov't out there doesn't see any value in dozing it and selling the land and returning it to taxable property?? Heck, just dozing it so it's not an unsightly mess with the aura of a ghost town?? I mean, yeah, we have POOR areas here in TX, but usually stuff doesn't just sit around for decades ROTTING DOWN...

Like I said, it's just 'weird' from my perspective... OL JR :)

The city of Detroit doesn't have enough money to bulldoze all the abandoned homes. Bulldozers and bulldozer operators cost money the city doesn't have.

The city of Detroit can't keep up, they are being abandoned faster than they can be demolished.

The city has more important things to spend money on. :rolleyes:

[tfischer]

(Disclaimer: I've never even been to Michigan, so I'm definitely not an expert...)

Detroit's population is something like half of what it was 50 years ago. When your population gets cut in half, you end up with a lot of surplos houses. And a lot of surplus businesses that used to support those people and those houses. And a lot less tax base to cover a fixed amount of infrastructure (streets, pipes, etc) that you can't get rid of because the remaining people and houses are scattered through the whole area. Much less surplus money to bulldoze all those houses...

Here's another site I've found fascinating in the past: http://www.detroityes.com/home.htm

Blame it on over-dependence on a single industry. Blame it on racism. Blame it on bad government. Blame it on whatever you want- it's pretty shocking. And I don't think there's another city like it anywhere in the country -- thank goodness... I suppose New Orleans might come close now but at least that one was caused by a natural disaster rather than horrid socio-economic factors...

[sandman]

(Disclaimer: I've never even been to Michigan, so I'm definitely not an expert...)

Detroit's population is something like half of what it was 50 years ago. When your population gets cut in half, you end up with a lot of surplos houses. And a lot of surplus businesses that used to support those people and those houses. And a lot less tax base to cover a fixed amount of infrastructure (streets, pipes, etc) that you can't get rid of because the remaining people and houses are scattered through the whole area. Much less surplus money to bulldoze all those houses...

Here's another site I've found fascinating in the past: http://www.detroityes.com/home.htm

Blame it on over-dependence on a single industry. Blame it on racism. Blame it on bad government. Blame it on whatever you want- it's pretty shocking. And I don't think there's another city like it anywhere in the country -- thank goodness... I suppose New Orleans might come close now but at least that one was caused by a natural disaster rather than horrid socio-economic factors...


That sounds about right. :(

I grew up in Detroit in the 50's and it was a pretty nice place then...not any more.

They are doing a lot of work downtown but I think it's too little too late.

[ghrocketman]

Hey now !
That's enough of the Flint, Mi bashing !
I happen to live 15mi SSW of Flint in a beautiful small town.

I will admit though there are areas within the city limits of Flint that I would NEVER EVER go during anytime of the day or night (north of the Flint river, within the city limits is nothing but a literal war-zone of crack houses and gang activity and has been for at LEAST the past 20+ years)
As more of General Motors left Flint (there are only like 6 GM plants left there), the whole city degraded rapidly.
At one point in the late 70's/early 80's, General Motors employed more people at facilities/plants within the city of Flint than their entire headcount for all national and international operations has now.
Now THAT is really SAD.