Estes Yankee kit history

[blackshire]

Hello All,

Most children who pick out Estes Alpha or Estes Big Bertha kits at their local hobby shops or craft stores have no idea that their parents were their age or younger (or not even born, in many cases) when these rockets were designed. While these two venerable old kits certainly deserve the crown of age for their longevity and continued popularity, other Estes kits have also achieved the status of timeless classics.

One of them is the Yankee (Catalog Number 1381), which has been in production since 1982 (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes82/82est16.html ). In addition to its distinctive, attractive configuration and colorful patriotic decor scheme, the Yankee is unusual in that it can use a very wide selection of 18 mm motors and (with an adapter) 13 mm motors, which are listed below. Its maximum altitude is listed as over 2,000 feet. Scans of the original-version Yankee's instructions sheet and decal sheet (along with scans of the fin pattern, body tube marking guide, and tri-fold shock cord mount) can be seen here: http://plans.rocketshoppe.com/estes/est1381/est1381.htm .

The kit originally had a balsa nose cone, the BNC-20Y, which Semroc produces under the same designation (see: http://www.semroc.com/Store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=575 ). The nose cone used a 3/4" long screw eye, the Estes SE-2A, whose Semroc designation is SE-2.

The early version of the kit had a simple red and blue paint scheme. The lower 3-3/4" of the body tube (including the fins) was painted red, and the rest of the rocket was painted blue. The white portion of the rocket's patriotic decor was provided by a set of white water-transfer decals. These comprised a roll pattern with small 5-point stars, a circumferential band, and longitudinal bars that was applied to the point where the red and blue sections of the body tube met. A "Yankee" kit name decal was placed on the blue upper section of the rocket, and six larger 5-point star decals were applied to the fins, with one on each side. The decal sheet also included an Estes logo decal, but its placement was not shown in the kit instructions.

In 1993, eleven years after the kit was introduced (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/nostalgia/93est018.html ), the Yankee's paint scheme was changed to red fins that had no decals, a white lower body tube, and a blue upper body tube and nose cone. This new version of the kit had self-adhesive decals instead of water-transfer decals. These included wide, red "vignetted" vertical bar decals which were applied to the white lower section of the body tube, with a white "Yankee" kit name decal affixed to the blue upper portion of the rocket. The kit retained its balsa nose cone.

The next year, the kit was changed again to incorporate a plastic nose cone of the same shape as the original balsa BNC-20Y. This plastic nose cone is included in the Estes NC-20 nose cone assortment. (It is possible that the Yankee's decor scheme and nose cone were *both* changed in 1993, and that the little nose cone material indicator drawing in the catalog was not changed to reflect the new nose cone until the 1994 catalog was released.) This is the version of the Yankee kit that is sold today. By using a Semroc BNC-20Y nose cone and SE-2 screw eye along with a reproduction of the original water-transfer decal sheet, a current-version Yankee kit could be easily converted back into the original version.

One sign that the Yankee is a classic kit is the fact that its original "Recommended Engines" list includes motors that are no longer made! This review of the Yankee on Essence's Model Rocketry Reviews & Resources web site (see: http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/all/est_yankee.shtml ) records successful flights that were made using Quest A6-4 and Estes A10-3T motors (using an adapter for the latter), and even an Apogee Components D3-7 composite propellant motor! Also, Quest's new 1/2A3-2 (an 18 mm motor) should work very well in the Yankee for flying from small fields, as should the Estes 1/2A3-2T (with an adapter). Below is the complete list of motors that have been used successfully to power the Yankee:

Estes 1/2A6-2
Estes 1/2A6-4
Quest A6-4
Estes A8-3
Estes A8-5 (Recommended motor for first flight)
Estes A10-3T (with adapter)
Estes B4-4
Estes B4-6
Estes B6-4
Estes B6-6
Estes B8-5
Estes C6-5
Estes C6-7
Apogee Components D3-7

With such a large selection of motors from which to choose, the odds of having to end flying sessions early for want of the correct motors for the Yankee are pretty remote! Given this most useful characteristic, combined with the rocket's attractive appearance and high performance, it is no wonder that the Yankee is a perennial favorite among model rocketeers of all ages.

[gpoehlein]

Didn't Estes acquire Centuri around the same time as the release of the Yankee? I know the Yankee nose cone is pretty close to the nose cone Centuri used for the X-24 Bug and the Redeye (cloning tip here). I know Estes integrated a number of Centuri parts into their inventory at that point - and the Yankee nose cone may have been part of that.

I should note this is pure speculation on my part - I could be wrong and Estes may have had a very similar cone in their own inventory as well.

Greg

[hcmbanjo]

The Estes catalogs show the earliest listing of the Yankee as a BT-20 based model at .736" diameter.
All the Centuri equivalent tubing is ST-7 at .759" diameter.

At the end of Centuri, Estes did come out with a few Centuri branded kits using Estes
BT sized tubes, but not the Yankee.
In the 1981 Centuri catalog, the new Space Master had a BT-50 tube and the Magnum Hornet had a BT-55. These were the first catalog showing of Estes parts in Centuri kits.
In 1982, the Centuri catalog introduced the Magnum Sprint with a BT-55 tube.
In the 1983 Centuri catalog, most all the Centuri kits stayed the same with the ST style tubing.

In the 1982 Centuri catalog, everything in parts section were Estes.

I remember seeing a black "Power Tower" launcher in a 1976 Centuri catalog.
It was actually the original design of the Estes Porta Pad but molded in black instead of the Estes yellow version. I'm sure everyone already knows - Estes made 13mm and 18mm engines for Centuri for years.

[blackshire]

Didn't Estes acquire Centuri around the same time as the release of the Yankee? I know the Yankee nose cone is pretty close to the nose cone Centuri used for the X-24 Bug and the Redeye (cloning tip here). I know Estes integrated a number of Centuri parts into their inventory at that point - and the Yankee nose cone may have been part of that.

I should note this is pure speculation on my part - I could be wrong and Estes may have had a very similar cone in their own inventory as well.

Greg

The last Centuri catalog was issued in 1983, a year after the Yankee's 1982 debut. Interestingly, the original Yankee's BNC-20Y balsa nose cone (which would not have fit snugly in--or matched the outside diameter of--Centuri ST-7 tubing) was *not* listed in the nose cones section of the Estes 1982 catalog.

The kit's current plastic nose cone didn't appear until 1994 (or possibly 1993). I don't have a Centuri X-24 or Redeye plastic nose cone (which was also used in the Orion kit's pod tubes) to compare with the Yankee plastic nose cone, but they may be identical except for their outside diameters. If so, it is possible that the Centuri mold(s) may have been modified to cast the Yankee nose cones.

[John Brohm]

Didn't Estes acquire Centuri around the same time as the release of the Yankee? I know the Yankee nose cone is pretty close to the nose cone Centuri used for the X-24 Bug and the Redeye (cloning tip here). I know Estes integrated a number of Centuri parts into their inventory at that point - and the Yankee nose cone may have been part of that.

I should note this is pure speculation on my part - I could be wrong and Estes may have had a very similar cone in their own inventory as well.

Greg

Hi Greg;

Nope, the good ol' Yankee was an Estes product through and through, and based on BT-20. But you raise a good point: by my reckoning, the following Estes kits were based on acquired Centuri technology:

1284 Space Shuttle
1330 Challenger II (Fin Can)
1336 Boeing ALCM (Cruise Missile)
1378 Firecat (later became the #1915 Harpoon, and migrated to BT-50 airframe)
1907 Cyclone
1921 Mercury Redstone
1976 Jupiter-C (airframe; introduced in 1987, long after Centuri ceased, so one could argue that this one wasn't really a Centuri carry over)

Plus with the AstroCam being introduced in 1979 based on BT-56 (ST-13) tubing, this would be the introduction of this airframe type into the Estes line up, it would seem.

There is of course the view that later versions of the Saturn V and 1b incorporated Centuri technology (certain plastic parts), but having compared the command module parts, there is a clear difference between the Estes part and the Centuri part.

I've no doubt overlooked something in my list, but I believe this to be a fair accounting of the "borrowing" that occurred when Centuri moved into Estes.

[Mark II]

Another venerable kit that is still in the Estes catalog is the Wizard, which has been in production since 1978. That's 31 years and counting.

MarkII

[Mark II]

H...But you raise a good point: by my reckoning, the following Estes kits were based on acquired Centuri technology:

1284 Space Shuttle
1330 Challenger II (Fin Can)
1336 Boeing ALCM (Cruise Missile)
1378 Firecat (later became the #1915 Harpoon, and migrated to BT-50 airframe)
1907 Cyclone
1921 Mercury Redstone
1976 Jupiter-C (airframe; introduced in 1987, long after Centuri ceased, so one could argue that this one wasn't really a Centuri carry over)

I've no doubt overlooked something in my list, but I believe this to be a fair accounting of the "borrowing" that occurred when Centuri moved into Estes.There is also:

#1949 Viking/#1452 Black Diamond. Renamed Centuri Viking. Still in production.
#2128 Long Shot, #2191 Maniac and #1950 Eliminator are all based on the Centuri ST-13 and all feature the Enerjet 1340 fin can.
#2013 Estes Recruiter is a straight rebadging of the Centuri Recruiter
#2151 Solar Probe is a rebadged Centuri KD-16 Stellar Photon Probe.
#2006 Calypso - a Centuri Starfire adapted to BT-50
#2007 Iris - Centuri Iris adapted to BT-50
#1955 Helio Copter also used Centuri ST-13
#1423 Vagabond is a Centuri Astro-1.
#1388 Apache-2 is a Centuri Tiger Streak

MarkII

[blackshire]

Another venerable kit that is still in the Estes catalog is the Wizard, which has been in production since 1978. That's 31 years and counting.

MarkII

I didn't do a write-up on the Wizard only because its longevity is well-known and, like the Viking and Alpha, it is ubiquitous because it is also sold in 12-kit Educator Packs. Except for its new, ugly decor scheme and "new" shock cord material (back to white contest rubber), the Wizard has not changed since it was first released. [CORRECTION: The Wizard originally had a balsa nose cone, as did the Zinger (please see below).] <Oops, no it didn't!>

I really miss the Estes Zinger (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes85/85est12.html ), but before it went OOP it also got an "Art Deco" makeover (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/nostalgia/93est016.html ) that ruined its simple, elegant decor scheme. Fortunately, Sandman at Excelsior Rocketry www.excelsiorrocketry.com now makes reproductions of the original Zinger and Wizard decal sheets.

[John Brohm]

There is also:

#1949 Viking/#1452 Black Diamond. Renamed Centuri Viking. Still in production.
#2128 Long Shot, #2191 Maniac and #1950 Eliminator are all based on the Centuri ST-13 and all feature the Enerjet 1340 fin can.
#2013 Estes Recruiter is a straight rebadging of the Centuri Recruiter
#2151 Solar Probe is a rebadged Centuri KD-16 Stellar Photon Probe.
#2006 Calypso - a Centuri Starfire adapted to BT-50
#2007 Iris - Centuri Iris adapted to BT-50
#1955 Helio Copter also used Centuri ST-13
#1423 Vagabond is a Centuri Astro-1.
#1388 Apache-2 is a Centuri Tiger Streak

MarkII

Hi MarkII;

I agree that these were kits adapted from Centuri designs, but my earlier list was an attempt to capture those that actually used Centuri parts from the days of the acquisition/merger. Sorry for the confusion!

[Rocket Doctor]

Didn't Estes acquire Centuri around the same time as the release of the Yankee? I know the Yankee nose cone is pretty close to the nose cone Centuri used for the X-24 Bug and the Redeye (cloning tip here). I know Estes integrated a number of Centuri parts into their inventory at that point - and the Yankee nose cone may have been part of that.

I should note this is pure speculation on my part - I could be wrong and Estes may have had a very similar cone in their own inventory as well.

Greg


1958 - 1969 Vern
1969 - 1990 Damon
1971 Damon purchases Centuri
1990 - present Barry

[Shreadvector]

1958 - 1969 Vern
1969 - 1990 Damon
1971 Damon purchases Centuri
1990 - present Barry

no mention of "NOMAD" ?

[tbzep]

no mention of "NOMAD" ?

Happy now? :D (hoping both hotlinks stay valid)

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/9/99/Nomad-Tanru_hybrid.jpg

http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes80/80est26.jpg

[Mark II]

Hi MarkII;

I agree that these were kits adapted from Centuri designs, but my earlier list was an attempt to capture those that actually used Centuri parts from the days of the acquisition/merger. Sorry for the confusion!I was just trying to add more examples to your list. The Long Shot, Maniac and Eliminator all used the molded one-piece Enerjet 1340 fin can, didn't they? (The LS used two of them.) And therefore, by necessity, they would have had to use Centuri tubes, nose cones and internal components, too. In some cases, Estes kits used Centuri components but listed them with Estes names on their parts lists. Centuri ST-13 became Estes BT-56, Centuri ST-20 became Estes BT-67, etc. And the Viking, Recruiter, Vagabond and Apache-2 weren't Centuri kits that were redesigned and kitted with Estes parts - they were Centuri kits through and through, weren't they? Just with different hang tags and a different kit name and logo on the instruction sheets?

The exchange went the other way, too. Several (but by no means all) of the Centuri kits introduced in the 1980-83 time frame were produced with Estes components. The Centuri Thunder Roc used BT-60, the Centuri Bull Dog used BT-70, etc. The very first Centuri clone that I built a few years ago was the Zebra II. The parts list in the instructions does not contain a single Centuri component; the model is built entirely out of familiar Estes parts. (The instructions themselves look exactly like they were created in the EI art department, too.) Another model, the Centuri Spacemaster, would look right at home in any Estes Industries catalog from that period. I don't know if these and others were created by Estes designers but were eventually sold as Centuri kits, or if Centuri designers simply started using Estes components in the final few years. I suspect that they were the products of Penrose's design team, though.

MarkII

[blackshire]

The Estes Viking isn't structurally identical to the Centuri Viking. The original Centuri kit (which was also sold to Scouts as the differently-marked Akela-1) used 0.759" diameter ST-7 tubing, the PNC-76 nose cone, and the fiber fins from the Vector-V kit. The Estes Viking uses 0.736" diameter BT-20 tubing, the plastic nose cone used in the Wizard and Zinger kits (called BNC-20N, I believe), and fiber fins that are similar to--but not identical to--the Centuri Viking's fins.

The heavier Centuri PNC-76 nose cone permitted the Centuri Viking/Akela-1 to fly stably using any configuration of its fiber fins. The lighter BT-20N nose cone of the Estes Viking (which is/was also sold as part of a two-rocket "Launchables" starter set with a black/red decor scheme and called Black Diamond) makes the rocket unstable with "C" motors if the long-chord fin configurations are used, unless a little clay ballast is added to the nose cone.

The Vagabond looked like the Centuri Astro-1 but used 0.976" diameter Estes BT-50 tubing instead of the 1.040" diameter Centuri ST-10 tubing.

[Mark II]

OK, so did I get ANYTHING right in my post? :confused:

MarkII

[John Brohm]

OK, so did I get ANYTHING right in my post? :confused:

MarkII

Hi MarkII:

Yes, you did. I would agree that all of the examples you listed were inspired/influenced/copied/adapted from earlier Centuri designs. It's just that they were developed from Estes parts, the exception being the Maniac/Eliminator/Long Shot/BT-56 stuff, the fin can clearly being a part sustained from the Centuri days, and BT-56 having its roots in ST-13.

Your examples of the late Centuri kits being developed from Estes parts are also correct.

My earlier note, apart from unexpectedly hi-jacking Blackshire's chronology of the Yankee, was meant only to illuminate Greg's remark about Estes kits that might have incorporated leftover Centuri parts just following the merger (sort of Centuri SPEVs, in a way). The Yankee kit was not one of these (on topic remark), but the others I listed were (off topic remark; apologies to Blackshire). None of this takes anything away from the correctness of your observations.

[John Brohm]

... The Estes Viking uses 0.736" diameter BT-20 tubing, the plastic nose cone used in the Wizard and Zinger kits (called BNC-20N, I believe), and fiber fins that are similar to--but not identical to--the Centuri Viking's fins.

(Centuri stuff snipped)...

Spot on but for some slight clarifications concerning the nose. The Estes Viking nose was a plastic, two part PNC-20A from the get go. The Viking kit used the red molded version until its livery changed to the Yellow/Green scheme in 1993, at which point the white nose cone version was substituted.

The Wizard did have a balsa nose for awhile (BNC-20N), and was later changed to the PNC-20A; I've not encountered a Wizard kit with a PNC-20N nose, but then I've not seen every Wizard kit! I believe the Zinger never did have a balsa nose; like the Viking it incorporated the PNC-20A from the start, although it was the white one obviously.

The PNC-20N was a plastic blow molded nose that was used only in a small group of kits, and so is kind of rare. It was last used in #0846 Eclipse, and as a side note I'll add that an interesting thing about the Eclipse is that it managed to incorporate all 3 versions of the "generic" 20(?) nose: initially released with the BNC-20N, later changed to the PNC-20N, and then finally completing its run with the ubiquitous PNC-20A. One of the few kits I know of that managed to hit for the cycle.

[John Brohm]

....

The heavier Centuri PNC-76 nose cone permitted the Centuri Viking/Akela-1 to fly stably using any configuration of its fiber fins. The lighter BT-20N nose cone of the Estes Viking ...

Just a quick photo comparing the two noses. The upper nose is the Estes PNC-20A, and the one in the Centuri Viking kit package is the Centuri PNC-76. While not so evident from the photo, the PNC-76 is longer than its Estes counterpart by about 1/4".

[blackshire]

Spot on but for some slight clarifications concerning the nose. The Estes Viking nose was a plastic, two part PNC-20A from the get go. The Viking kit used the red molded version until its livery changed to the Yellow/Green scheme in 1993, at which point the white nose cone version was substituted.

...Which the Moon Mutt now uses. I bought four of them from ehobbies and a set of reproductions of the original water-transfer Estes Viking decals (which are patterned after the Centuri ones) from Excelsior Rocketry to recreate the original mid-1980s Estes Viking.

[Mark II]

Hi MarkII:

Yes, you did. I would agree that all of the examples you listed were inspired/influenced/copied/adapted from earlier Centuri designs. It's just that they were developed from Estes parts, the exception being the Maniac/Eliminator/Long Shot/BT-56 stuff, the fin can clearly being a part sustained from the Centuri days, and BT-56 having its roots in ST-13.
Just a final note on this digression off the main topic, but I was using this list (http://www.rocketshoppe.com/info/estes_expanded_kit_list.htm) as the source of much of my information. Apparently it needs some correction, then.

MarkII

[CPMcGraw]

Just a final note on this digression off the main topic, but I was using this list (http://www.rocketshoppe.com/info/estes_expanded_kit_list.htm) as the source of much of my information. Apparently it needs some correction, then.

MarkII
:o :D

Urkel voice: Did I do that???

It probably needs A LOT of updating, since it appears I haven't touched it in over a year. :eek: