EnerJet KE-4 Egg Crate In The Build Queue

[snaquin]

I searched the YORF forum for Egg Crate and found at least a couple of members interested in the EnerJet version of this kit (ghrocketman, green dragon) and I’m sure there may be others. I have some files to submit for the Egg Crate as well as a few requests for information & suggestions from YORF forum members concerning the build.

I have two of the PNC-13E/ST-202 Egg Capsules on hand, one of which I’m using to build the EnerJet SR1340 with the large payload section as featured in the Handbook of Model Rocketry 4th Edition (My thanks to SEL for the much needed information he provided to me to assist with that build). A dry fit image of those parts is below waiting for my Semroc order to get here any day now with the EM-9115 engine mounts for 24mm.

I converted the bottom of each of the Egg Capsules to be used on the Semroc LT-125 series tubing instead of the ST-13 tubing these capsules were made to fit into. To accomplish this I cut off the very bottom of the capsule shoulder and left 1” of the plastic shoulder that should have fit inside the ST-13. I also cut 1” of BT-56 to cover this part of the shoulder and I used a piece of wood dowel (bulkhead) to recess up into the shoulder and an Estes BT-56 centering ring that fits nicely from the inside on a little molded ridge and butts up against the 1” of inserted dowel. With a little adhesive the dowel will not be able to pull out of the base because of the centering ring and I can glue a screw eye into the base of the dowel for a more robust recovery attachment than the provided molded eyelet that I removed. I did this since I will also fly a recording altimeter in the capsule when I’m not flying eggs and I don’t want it coming loose. An image of the parts is below and I mention this because if you intend to use ST-13 or BT-56 tubing you can remove the bulkhead & centering ring from the RockSim files below and change the tubing from LT-125 to ST-13 in the files.

I have three RockSim files below. One is for a 29mm mount like the original with the launch lugs mounted as suggested in the instructions. The other two files are for a 29mm mount and a 24mm mount with stand-offs and lugs mounted similar to the Estes 1996 Eggspress/2072 Scrambler instructions. I also provided a .pdf file for those of you that don’t have RockSim so you can have a peek at the design.

Here are the two major questions I have:

Does anyone here have an actual EnerJet Egg Crate fin pattern?
Does anyone here have a scan of the EnerJet Egg Crate decal sheet?

The fin pattern for the EnerJet Egg Crate appears to be different from the Eggspress/Scrambler. I could not read the dimensions because of the scan on Ninfinger to see the fin span measurement in the 72 EnerJet catalog but if you look closely the leading edge has no sweep like the Eggspress/Scrambler and the trailing edge is not clipped. Has anyone else noticed this? It’s also evident in the small picture at the bottom of the page where the kid is putting the parachute into the Egg Crate, as well as in the picture on the rack of rockets on the launch system page.

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/enerjet72/72ejet10.html

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/enerjet72/72ejet14.html

What I did was to enlarge the line drawing of the fin from the Egg Crate instructions that are posted on JimZ website until the span was 3” when I printed it out, equal to the span of the Eggspress/Scrambler.

http://www.dars.org/jimz/ke-4.htm

The pattern I estimated is what I used in RockSim and is also included in the .pdf for those of you that don’t have RockSim but would like the estimated pattern. I’d prefer to have a copy of the original pattern/dimensions if anyone here has it but I’m going with this if I’m unable to attain that. A decal scan would be nice as well. I remember when Kevin had Countdown Hobbies there was an original EnerJet Egg Crate decal there but they are rare and I doubt I’ll be able to obtain a scan of one.

Also, (third and final question for this post I promise) what type of paint would you guys recommend for this flexible polyethelene the capsule is made of? Any special paint/primer considerations I should be aware of? I wish I had an original that was molded in black but the Estes versions I have are yellow so I’m going to need to paint them black.

Let me know what you guys think. I’m open for any thoughts or suggestions to assist with the build. Thanks in advance!

[Ltvscout]

Great work, Steve! Can we add this info to the BARCLONE site? Since it's a variation of the original, that would be the best place to put your plans.

[snaquin]

Great work, Steve! Can we add this info to the BARCLONE site? Since it's a variation of the original, that would be the best place to put your plans.


Scott

That would be great! If you like I have a RockSim file on my other computer for an ST-13 version without the MODS if you would prefer that since it would be closest to the original, less the fin pattern estimate.

Let me know. If you want I can save a parts list within the .pdf file if that will help.

Thanks

[CPMcGraw]

Scott

That would be great! If you like I have a RockSim file on my other computer for an ST-13 version without the MODS if you would prefer that since it would be closest to the original, less the fin pattern estimate.

Let me know. If you want I can save a parts list within the .pdf file if that will help.

Thanks

Steve,

Have you also worked up a RKT file for the version you're describing? Might as well add both files to BARCLONE...

What I did was to enlarge the line drawing of the fin from the Egg Crate instructions that are posted on JimZ website until the span was 3” when I printed it out, equal to the span of the Eggspress/Scrambler.

Ain't computer graphics fun?

I had to use this method on a few Estes kits when no one had a scan of the fins. Those line drawings are usually not too far off the mark in accuracy, even if they do come out a bit rough-looking at first.

[snaquin]

[QUOTE=CPMcGraw]Steve,

Have you also worked up a RKT file for the version you're describing? Might as well add both files to BARCLONE...

Craig I attached the ST-13 version file for you. This one should be the closest to the original design with the fin estimation I did. I would think most would prefer to build this based on the ST-13 tubing to stay true to the original kit.


Ain't computer graphics fun?

I had to use this method on a few Estes kits when no one had a scan of the fins. Those line drawings are usually not too far off the mark in accuracy, even if they do come out a bit rough-looking at first.

If someone comes up with the fin pattern for this one I'll be really surprised. At least by using an estimate based on the similar fin span of the 2072 Scrambler I know it should be pretty close. If you need anything else just let me know.

You have a lot of cool stuff on BARCLONE. I really like the Ascender 29 sounding rocket and the Blue Sneek 29 designs in the proven designs section. :cool:

[CPMcGraw]

Craig I attached the ST-13 version file for you. This one should be the closest to the original design with the fin estimation I did. I would think most would prefer to build this based on the ST-13 tubing to stay true to the original kit.

Understood. I should be back "in one piece" after the start of the year, then I can start looking at the file...

If someone comes up with the fin pattern for this one I'll be really surprised. At least by using an estimate based on the similar fin span of the 2072 Scrambler I know it should be pretty close. If you need anything else just let me know.

Having never built either, I have nothing else to reference the design to. But I love a challenge... :D

You have a lot of cool stuff on BARCLONE. I really like the Ascender 29 sounding rocket and the Blue Sneek 29 designs in the proven designs section. :cool:

Thanks, Steve. I did a quick count the other day and was a bit stunned to find almost 120 designs posted, with a few more still in the works.

I've been looking for an opportunity to fly the Ascender and Blue Sneek (18mm) versions, but I've either had something to do on that weekend, or it's been a little wet, cold, or breezy along the Gulf Coast (where I live) since about August... :eek:

[snaquin]

Anyone ever try to get Krylon Gloss Black to stick to that flexible polyethelene that Centuri and Estes used on their egg capsules and in the more recent Eggspress and (2072) Scrambler kits?

I tried a light sanding surface prep on both capsules. I used Krylon white primer on one and shot the other with Krylon Gloss Black, no primer. I'm going to use one of these on an Egg Crate and the other to top off a 1340.

Wish I had the original Centuri parts that were molded in black .....

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/centuri75rt/75rt10.html

.

[Chris_Timm]

Aren't the fins from the Eggspress the same as the EggCrate?
I have 2 of the Eggspress kits opened. The fins were die-punched.
Should I post a jpeg of them with dimensions or are you set already?

Also, where did you find that RED fin can?
Or did you paint it that way.

I was playing around with the Semroc balsa part equivalents last nite.
The 1340/20 clone is WILD when you replace both the #13 and #20 tubes with 34" long pieces!
It should cruise slow and sweet on an E9!

Interesting note---- the yellow plastic cone and transition weight LESS than the balsa equivalents.

Without motor mount and recovery device, the complete mock-up of plastic weighed 94 grams where the balsa came in at an even 100 grams.

[snaquin]

Aren't the fins from the Eggspress the same as the EggCrate?
I have 2 of the Eggspress kits opened. The fins were die-punched.
Should I post a jpeg of them with dimensions or are you set already?

Also, where did you find that RED fin can?
Or did you paint it that way.

I was playing around with the Semroc balsa part equivalents last nite.
The 1340/20 clone is WILD when you replace both the #13 and #20 tubes with 34" long pieces!
It should cruise slow and sweet on an E9!

Interesting note---- the yellow plastic cone and transition weight LESS than the balsa equivalents.

Without motor mount and recovery device, the complete mock-up of plastic weighed 94 grams where the balsa came in at an even 100 grams.

I can't get anyone to either confirm or refute the EnerJet Egg Crate vs Estes Eggspress fin pattern. To me, these do not appear to be the same fins. If you look at the line drawings in the Egg Crate instructions on JimZ they are a different shape. If you look at the kit page in the 72 EnerJet catalog (bottom right photo and kit line drawing) and also on the rack of rockets on the "do it yourself" page, the Egg Crate fins taper more towards the tip than do the Eggspress. This is my opinion only, but these do appear to be different fins.

http://www.dars.org/jimz/ke-4.htm

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/enerjet72/72ejet10.html

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/enerjet72/72ejet14.html

And a pretty good shot of an original Egg Crate on page 2 in the Sept 72 EnerJet News on Old Rocket Plans:

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/pubs/Enerjet/9-72/enerjet972.htm

I have mine cut and ready to go with my extra Egg Capsule. All I need is a little more time and thanks for offering to post a .jpg image. I robbed both my capsules from Eggspress kits and I still have the fins around here somewhere ;)

The final pattern I went with (may differ from what I posted earlier) is attached. I think my RockSim image export looks pretty close to the image on JimZ but it's still a "best guess".

[CPMcGraw]

Anyone ever try to get Krylon Gloss Black to stick to that flexible polyethelene that Centuri and Estes used on their egg capsules and in the more recent Eggspress and (2072) Scrambler kits?

I tried a light sanding surface prep on both capsules. I used Krylon white primer on one and shot the other with Krylon Gloss Black, no primer. I'm going to use one of these on an Egg Crate and the other to top off a 1340.

Wish I had the original Centuri parts that were molded in black .....

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/centuri75rt/75rt10.html

.

I know this is three months late, but I just spotted this product reviewed in Model Railroader magazine (Yes, I confess, I am seeing...other hobbies... :eek: ). This appears to be just what you're asking for (or, You asked for it!)...

Specialty Performance Products SXA 1050 Plastic Adhesion Promoter, sold through PPG dealers. About $15 for one can. You spray a good coat, or two thin coats, and allow to dry about 15-20 minutes. You can then spray on any good enamel, and it should stay attached without chipping.

The reviewer sprayed it on some HO scale locomotive handrails before shooting color, and it was able to take a lot of abuse like flexing and bending without chipping the paint. It also stood up to scraping with a fingernail.

[SEL]

I know this is three months late, but I just spotted this product reviewed in Model Railroader magazine (Yes, I confess, I am seeing...other hobbies... :eek: ). This appears to be just what you're asking for (or, You asked for it!)...

Specialty Performance Products SXA 1050 Plastic Adhesion Promoter, sold through PPG dealers. About $15 for one can. You spray a good coat, or two thin coats, and allow to dry about 15-20 minutes. You can then spray on any good enamel, and it should stay attached without chipping.

The reviewer sprayed it on some HO scale locomotive handrails before shooting color, and it was able to take a lot of abuse like flexing and bending without chipping the paint. It also stood up to scraping with a fingernail.

I just came from the local ACE Hardware and they hav a line of spray paints especially for plastic (so the can reads, anyway.) I don't remember the price, but it couldn't have been too out of line with the regular spray paints. But I think the main problem people are having with the Estes/Centuri Egg Crate pieces is the yellow powdery stuff that coats them. They really need to be washed well. I've had my 1340/20 for 8 years now, and the only paint that
has come off is a scratch on the nose cone due to a C11 prang. The only other possible difference is that I used Krylon Semi-Flat Black instead of gloss.

Sean

[snaquin]

I know this is three months late, but I just spotted this product reviewed in Model Railroader magazine (Yes, I confess, I am seeing...other hobbies... :eek: ). This appears to be just what you're asking for (or, You asked for it!)...

Specialty Performance Products SXA 1050 Plastic Adhesion Promoter, sold through PPG dealers. About $15 for one can. You spray a good coat, or two thin coats, and allow to dry about 15-20 minutes. You can then spray on any good enamel, and it should stay attached without chipping.

The reviewer sprayed it on some HO scale locomotive handrails before shooting color, and it was able to take a lot of abuse like flexing and bending without chipping the paint. It also stood up to scraping with a fingernail.

Thanks Craig. Sounds like I could have used a can of this. I have the Egg Crate capsule painted already. I painted it at the same time I did the one for my 1340/20. I wasn't sure how Kilz primer would react with polyethelene so I skipped that type primer completely. I used some Krylon white primer on one of my capsules and I used Krylon Gloss Black on the other directly on the capsule surface with no primer. A little surface prep with a light sanding was all I did and then wiped clean but neither method worked well. If it were the 1340/20 you could use the Semroc balsa parts, but with an Egg Crate you have to have the capsule or not fly an egg. And who would build an egg lofter and not fly an egg? I'm not only going to fly an egg, I'm going to punish it with F engines just like they did at NARAM-14 :D

I did save your info for future builds Craig. Thanks again!

[snaquin]

Also, where did you find that RED fin can?
Or did you paint it that way.

I painted a black one with a couple of coats of gloss white Krylon and a few days later with a couple of coats of red Krylon. I used either a construction paper wand or scrap body tube so I wouldn't get paint on the inside surface. I painted my yellow can white and my black can red :D

I think we'd be hard pressed to find an original unless a very old Centuri Argus came up for sale/auction before Centuri used up all the old red cans .....

Keep those pictures coming Chris of your progress. I'm documenting my build of a 1340 with the 6.4 nose cone version. I put all the measurements including the .10 exposed coupler into RockSim the other night ..... more on this later.

[ghrocketman]

The fin pattern for the Enerjet Egg Crate and the Estes Eggspress are absolutely NOT the same pattern. They are similar, but NOT the same.
I have a scan of the Egg Crate fin somewhere but it will take some serious looking.
I have the Egg Crate (via modified Eggspress kit) in my build queue, but it is seriously down the list as I have the following kits/clone paks to build: a Hustler (second one), K21 Gemini Titan, Enerjet Athena (second one), Mars Lander, Original K41 Mercury-Redstone, X-21, Space Plane, Original Enerjet Nike-Smoke, Astron Avenger, Orbital Transport, Aerotech Sumo, 29mm Big Daddy, Astron SkyDart, 1971-version AeroDart (to complement the 1972 Enerjet AeroDart), SPEV kit, Scissor-Wing Transport, Enerjet 2250/2650, and Original Astron Nighthawk ahead of it.
I also have an original Estes K-29 Saturn 1B and K-30 Little Joe II that I was going to build, but with the Semroc kits coming out, those most likely will stay unbuilt.

[snaquin]

The fin pattern for the Enerjet Egg Crate and the Estes Eggspress are absolutely NOT the same pattern. They are similar, but NOT the same.
I have a scan of the Egg Crate fin somewhere but it will take some serious looking.
I have the Egg Crate (via modified Eggspress kit) in my build queue, but it is seriously down the list as I have the following kits/clone paks to build: a Hustler (second one), K21 Gemini Titan, Enerjet Athena (second one), Mars Lander, Original K41 Mercury-Redstone, X-21, Space Plane, Original Enerjet Nike-Smoke, Astron Avenger, Orbital Transport, Aerotech Sumo, 29mm Big Daddy, Astron SkyDart, 1971-version AeroDart (to complement the 1972 Enerjet AeroDart), SPEV kit, Scissor-Wing Transport, Enerjet 2250/2650, and Original Astron Nighthawk ahead of it.
I also have an original Estes K-29 Saturn 1B and K-30 Little Joe II that I was going to build, but with the Semroc kits coming out, those most likely will stay unbuilt.

If you can find that fin pattern that would be really terrific :D I'll gladly recut three fins for the sake of accuracy. I'll wait a while in case you can turn something up. There are also no decals available online that I can find. The original sheet had little egg decals on it that said "Egg Crate". The picture on JimZ that is also pictured in most publications doesn't show the little egg decals and has stripes. The picture on JimZ is probably the way I'll finish mine .

And I thought I had a lot of items in my build queue.....not compared to that list. Man, having that many projects lined up would cause me to have some sort of stress disorder. I never seem to get used to having more projects than I do time to build them but that still doesn't stop me from buying more parts (and kits). :eek:

You weren't kidding when you said you intended to clone the entire 72 EnerJet catalog where you!

[ghrocketman]

Nope, was not kidding about cloning the entire '72 Enerjet Catalog !
I'm currently working on a Nike-Ram on the workbench now too.
The estimated fin pattern .pdf you have is the correct shape; I would just go with that; It may take me a LONG time to find the scan and I recall it being the same as your .pdf anyway; come to think of it, I think mine is a .pdf, not an actual scan.

[snaquin]

Made some progress on the EnerJet Egg Crate today and dry fit all of the parts prior to bonding (later tonight I hope). I slotted the airframe so fins mount TTW directly to the 29mm motor tube (Semroc LT-115). I used LT-125 tubing for the airframe and adapted the Egg Capsule to fit as shown in the images in my first post of this thread. My EnerJet 1340/20 uses this same mod.

I hope to have the fins attached with fillets and then a pass with Fill n Finish before I crash tonight. Also I hope to have the Semroc ST-13 baffle built and turned down slightly with my dremel and sanding drum to fit the ID of the LT-125 and bonded inside the airframe with kevlar shock cord harness attached. I hope to have it in primer and painted over the weekend provided the weather still holds out.

;)

[ghrocketman]

Speaking of the Egg Crate, I worked on mine last week !
It is in virtually the same exact condition as yours....Capsule painted with bare fins (sealed with original 1980's stock Aero Gloss Balsa Fillercoat and Sanding Sealer, of course) and bare body tube.
I went with the original 29mm mount in mine but probably will never fly it with 29mm anything. Most likely it will be fed a diet of 24mm D12-5's and RMS D15-7's and D9-7's using a 29 to 24mm Semroc adapter.
I will probably fill/prime/paint the body tube/fins over the next two days.
Are you going with dual chutes or a single ?

[snaquin]

Speaking of the Egg Crate, I worked on mine last week !
It is in virtually the same exact condition as yours....Capsule painted with bare fins (sealed with original 1980's stock Aero Gloss Balsa Fillercoat and Sanding Sealer, of course) and bare body tube.
I went with the original 29mm mount in mine but probably will never fly it with 29mm anything. Most likely it will be fed a diet of 24mm D12-5's and RMS D15-7's and D9-7's using a 29 to 24mm Semroc adapter.
I will probably fill/prime/paint the body tube/fins over the next two days.
Are you going with dual chutes or a single ?

I finished all construction this past weekend and finished filling the fins but woke up Saturday and Sunday mornings to rainfall. No rain today but the current humidity is 83% so I'm not spraying anything today.

I'm building the 24mm Semroc adapter for mine too but I do want to fly it on a 29mm single use or EconoJet at our HPR field because I'm not going to risk an "F" reload motor case in the Egg Crate.

I did notice mention of two things in the original instructions:

"The Egg Crate is designed to be flown with a minimum payload of 1-1/2 ounces for adequate stability. No more than 3 ounces of payload should be used, unless if a larger parachute is used". RockSim confirms the Egg Crate needs the added weight and is even unstable with larger motors without it. I weighed a few of the eggs I have here and they weigh in at 1.9 - 2.0 ounces (grade A extra large) and it sims pretty well with 2 ounces added as a mass object in the center of the payload section. I'm thinking of using a single chute.

Also, the instructions recommended not painting the capsule because the plastic is not compatible with most paints. Of course if you happen to have a yellow capsule like I do you have to paint it black to stick with the original capsule colors. I had better luck with the capsule I painted directly without primer than the one I shot with primer first. I should have prepped it like Sean and others suggested but I didn't realize that until after I painted it. It came out pretty good though.

GH have you decided on colors for yours yet? I'm sure you noticed it's finished differently depending on what picture you happen to reference in the EnerJet catalog. I'm still undecided about how to finish mine (I wish I could find an original EnerJet Egg Crate decal sheet with the little eggs that say "Egg Crate" on them to put on the fins, but I'm sure that's not going to happen).

[ghrocketman]

I'm painting the lower body yellow with the red fin stripes.
Along with the black capsule, that is the only Enerjet Egg Crate paint scheme I am aware of.
Are you sure you are not comparing this to the original Centuri Egg Crate ?...that had totally different colors and was a totally different rocket.
I will place a single orange and black "Enerjet" logo decal in the middle (half way between the leading edge of fin and top of tube) of the body.
Good luck with those Egg Crate decals....that for some reason is the only Enerjet kit I have NEVER seen come up for auction. Maybe they made few kits, but I know at one point they had a HUGE overstock of the capsules....Centuri was practically giving them away.

[Green Dragon]

just turned up a rough capsule for this :)

someone along the way cut the shoulders off the capsule halves, eliminating the tube ( tape halves together for competition eggloft, I guess, ala old CMR capsules).

I ca'd a half of a Semroc ST20 coupler into each half (pie cut partway so it fits down into the capsule), seems ok, then will add the Semroc paylaod tube.

side note - is it my capsule ( due to the couplers / shoulder now being the * ID * of the molding.. or did your capsules leave a lip on Semroc tubing, too ?
ie" the Semroc tube is thinner wall ?.. mine has a negative lip ( tube smaller than capsule) with Semroc tube, and a 'positive' lip with vintage AAA 2.0" id, might be ok with a piece of FSI, but I thought that was 2.04,same as Centuri ?

I have the eggspress fins off a damaged bird, but will recut if it's actually different, ( is the pdf you mentioned posted ? ).

will be in the que, as usual, could be a week or 6 months, lol....

will be a neat addition tot he fleet, I had an eggspress with 29mm mount, as noted in post last year, lost on Aerotech/ Apogee F10-4 :D

pic attached, it does even look slightly 'vintage' witht he checkered roll-pattern, although not intentional at the time, lol .

~ AL

[John Dyer]

Here are the two major questions I have:

Does anyone here have an actual EnerJet Egg Crate fin pattern?
Does anyone here have a scan of the EnerJet Egg Crate decal sheet?

The fin pattern for the EnerJet Egg Crate appears to be different from the Eggspress/Scrambler. I could not read the dimensions because of the scan on Ninfinger to see the fin span measurement in the 72 EnerJet catalog but if you look closely the leading edge has no sweep like the Eggspress/Scrambler and the trailing edge is not clipped. Has anyone else noticed this? It’s also evident in the small picture at the bottom of the page where the kid is putting the parachute into the Egg Crate, as well as in the picture on the rack of rockets on the launch system page.




This is what I get for getting busy and staying away from this forum for so long. I have an original (Built) Egg Crate sitting with my other rockets in my Rocket Room (yes, I ACTUALLY have a rocket room <G>)

Do you still need the fin Pattern and Decal? I can trace the fin, and take a foto of the decal if it'll help...

Let me know if you still need these items.

John

[snaquin]

This is what I get for getting busy and staying away from this forum for so long. I have an original (Built) Egg Crate sitting with my other rockets in my Rocket Room (yes, I ACTUALLY have a rocket room <G>)

Do you still need the fin Pattern and Decal? I can trace the fin, and take a foto of the decal if it'll help...

Let me know if you still need these items.

John

John

YES! Please print out and compare my fin estimate I made up based on the line drawing included in the original instructions. That pattern is part of the .pdf file I included with my 1st post here:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=5093&postcount=1

I enlarged the EnerJet instructions line drawing until the span was equal to that of the EggSpress fins I had - figuring that would be a fairly close estimate, at least as far as stability was concerned. I'd love to have the original pattern (and build another one since I just attached the fins last Friday).

Yes an image of the decals would be great so I can have waterslide decals made based on that.

This would be great John if you don't mind doing that! Thanks so much :D

p.s. I'm working on my rocket room - now that my son is in college his room is being taken over .....

[snaquin]

just turned up a rough capsule for this :)

someone along the way cut the shoulders off the capsule halves, eliminating the tube ( tape halves together for competition eggloft, I guess, ala old CMR capsules).

I ca'd a half of a Semroc ST20 coupler into each half (pie cut partway so it fits down into the capsule), seems ok, then will add the Semroc paylaod tube.

side note - is it my capsule ( due to the couplers / shoulder now being the * ID * of the molding.. or did your capsules leave a lip on Semroc tubing, too ?
ie" the Semroc tube is thinner wall ?.. mine has a negative lip ( tube smaller than capsule) with Semroc tube, and a 'positive' lip with vintage AAA 2.0" id, might be ok with a piece of FSI, but I thought that was 2.04,same as Centuri ?

I have the eggspress fins off a damaged bird, but will recut if it's actually different, ( is the pdf you mentioned posted ? ).

will be in the que, as usual, could be a week or 6 months, lol....

will be a neat addition tot he fleet, I had an eggspress with 29mm mount, as noted in post last year, lost on Aerotech/ Apogee F10-4 :D

pic attached, it does even look slightly 'vintage' witht he checkered roll-pattern, although not intentional at the time, lol .

~ AL


AL

Nice looking bird by the way .....

I also tried to squeeze the capsule parts onto Semroc ST20 tubing when I built my EnerJet 1340/20, not the same. It slips easy over the Estes tubing but the Semroc ST20 is a slightly smaller id .....

It has been determined the Eggspress fins although similar are different. Check these two links in my next post and I think you'll see what I mean, not exactly the same.

[snaquin]

I'm painting the lower body yellow with the red fin stripes.
Along with the black capsule, that is the only Enerjet Egg Crate paint scheme I am aware of.
Are you sure you are not comparing this to the original Centuri Egg Crate ?...that had totally different colors and was a totally different rocket.
I will place a single orange and black "Enerjet" logo decal in the middle (half way between the leading edge of fin and top of tube) of the body.
Good luck with those Egg Crate decals....that for some reason is the only Enerjet kit I have NEVER seen come up for auction. Maybe they made few kits, but I know at one point they had a HUGE overstock of the capsules....Centuri was practically giving them away.

I was leaning towards finishing mine the same as you planned, same as the JimZ image. However look closely at the images in the EnerJet catalog. I'll repost a couple of the links here:


http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/enerjet72/72ejet10.html

Look at the bottom photo where the boy is packing the chute in. Those are the decals that I'm hoping John Dyer will get images of. I believe those decals on the fins are eggs that have "egg crate" in the centers, the instructions show these.

Also take a look at the Egg Crate on the launch rack here, there is a long vertical stripe as well:

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/enerjet72/72ejet14.html

If I can estimate decals like these I may finish mine like this version instead.

[ghrocketman]

The catalog and launch rack pictures are the same if you look close as far as the stripes go.
I plan to finish mine this way, minus the "egg" decals.

[John Dyer]

John

YES! Please print out and compare my fin estimate I made up based on the line drawing included in the original instructions. That pattern is part of the .pdf file I included with my 1st post here:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=5093&postcount=1

I enlarged the EnerJet instructions line drawing until the span was equal to that of the EggSpress fins I had - figuring that would be a fairly close estimate, at least as far as stability was concerned. I'd love to have the original pattern (and build another one since I just attached the fins last Friday).

Yes an image of the decals would be great so I can have waterslide decals made based on that.

This would be great John if you don't mind doing that! Thanks so much :D

p.s. I'm working on my rocket room - now that my son is in college his room is being taken over .....

OK.. I'll work on it ton ight when I get home from work...

John

[snaquin]

OK.. I'll work on it ton ight when I get home from work...

John

Thanks John, I appreciate that!

[John Dyer]

John

YES! Please print out and compare my fin estimate I made up based on the line drawing included in the original instructions. That pattern is part of the .pdf file I included with my 1st post here:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=5093&postcount=1

I enlarged the EnerJet instructions line drawing until the span was equal to that of the EggSpress fins I had - figuring that would be a fairly close estimate, at least as far as stability was concerned. I'd love to have the original pattern (and build another one since I just attached the fins last Friday).

Yes an image of the decals would be great so I can have waterslide decals made based on that.

This would be great John if you don't mind doing that! Thanks so much :D

p.s. I'm working on my rocket room - now that my son is in college his room is being taken over .....


LOL... Both my boys are at college, so I know what you mean about taking the room over for other things. Red River Rocketry occupies my oldest son's former room. He knows if he ever needs the room again that he can have it back.

I've traced the fin, scanned and then converted the trace. I'm including it here as 2 different file formats PDF and JPEG. Hopefully you can use one of these...

The decal is going to take a bit longer - I've shot the photos, but have to figure out how to reduce a copy down to something I can transmit.

John

[snaquin]

LOL... Both my boys are at college, so I know what you mean about taking the room over for other things. Red River Rocketry occupies my oldest son's former room. He knows if he ever needs the room again that he can have it back.

I've traced the fin, scanned and then converted the trace. I'm including it here as 2 different file formats PDF and JPEG. Hopefully you can use one of these...

The decal is going to take a bit longer - I've shot the photos, but have to figure out how to reduce a copy down to something I can transmit.

John

I printed your pattern and compared to the one I estimated by laying one over the other. Although I had the angles very close to the original I'm surprised at how small your original is as far as size and span. I guess that's why EnerJet was specific in the instructions to tell you to have at least 1-1/2 ounces of payload weight to fly it. I'm going to plug in your pattern to RockSim later and post it.

I think the original EnerJet catalog showed 5.5" measured from tip to tip on the fins of the Egg Crate but we all know catalog measurements are not always really accurate. Thanks for scanning that and I can't wait to see the original decals!

[John Dyer]

I printed your pattern and compared to the one I estimated by laying one over the other. Although I had the angles very close to the original I'm surprised at how small your original is as far as size and span. I guess that's why EnerJet was specific in the instructions to tell you to have at least 1-1/2 ounces of payload weight to fly it. I'm going to plug in your pattern to RockSim later and post it.

I think the original EnerJet catalog showed 5.5" measured from tip to tip on the fins of the Egg Crate but we all know catalog measurements are not always really accurate. Thanks for scanning that and I can't wait to see the original decals!


Hopefully it came accross in the proper scale. I included a line that was exactly one inch for size comparison. Sometimes Illustrator can dostrange things when converting to a non-AI format. Or maybe it's me not holding my mouth right when I hit the enter key...

[ghrocketman]

Has anyone seen an original Enerjet Egg Crate kit ? Did it come boxed, bagged or both ?
I have an original Enerjet Nike-Smoke kit and it is bagged. Don't know if that one ever came in "Boxed" form.
I know the Aero Dart and Nike Ram were boxed, supposedly bagged in late production.
I have seen a bagged Enerjet Athena, and those supposedly came boxed.
The Pterodactyl is the only Enerjet kit that supposedly was only in bagged format.
Anybody know what format the original Enerjet 1340, 2250, and 2650 kits came in ?
Anybody have any pictures of those kits ?

[John Dyer]

Has anyone seen an original Enerjet Egg Crate kit ? Did it come boxed, bagged or both ?
I have an original Enerjet Nike-Smoke kit and it is bagged. Don't know if that one ever came in "Boxed" form.
I know the Aero Dart and Nike Ram were boxed, supposedly bagged in late production.
I have seen a bagged Enerjet Athena, and those supposedly came boxed.
The Pterodactyl is the only Enerjet kit that supposedly was only in bagged format.
Anybody know what format the original Enerjet 1340, 2250, and 2650 kits came in ?
Anybody have any pictures of those kits ?


All the Enerjet kits I bought were bagged - Nike Smoke, Nike Ram, Egg Crate, and the Pterodactyl. The only one I still have is the Egg Crate.


John

[ghrocketman]

Is the Egg Crate in kit or built form ?
Would like pics either way !
If it's a kit are you still inclined to keep it or could you be pursuaded to sell it ?

[Green Dragon]

Has anyone seen an original Enerjet Egg Crate kit ? Did it come boxed, bagged or both ?
I have an original Enerjet Nike-Smoke kit and it is bagged. Don't know if that one ever came in "Boxed" form.
I know the Aero Dart and Nike Ram were boxed, supposedly bagged in late production.
I have seen a bagged Enerjet Athena, and those supposedly came boxed.
The Pterodactyl is the only Enerjet kit that supposedly was only in bagged format.
Anybody know what format the original Enerjet 1340, 2250, and 2650 kits came in ?
Anybody have any pictures of those kits ?

The only true 2650 kit I ever saw was one Chris Pearson had, many years back , it was boxed in a plain white box, as I recall.
That was offered up in one of his mail auctions, and I failed to win :-( .. I think Randy Liebermann wound up with it, but unsure the wherabouts of the kit at this point.

Would be nice to get some photos of the kit for historical sake.

~ AL

[Ltvscout]

I've traced the fin, scanned and then converted the trace. I'm including it here as 2 different file formats PDF and JPEG. Hopefully you can use one of these...

The decal is going to take a bit longer - I've shot the photos, but have to figure out how to reduce a copy down to something I can transmit.
John,

Can I post this on YORP?

[Ltvscout]

All the Enerjet kits I bought were bagged - Nike Smoke, Nike Ram, Egg Crate, and the Pterodactyl. The only one I still have is the Egg Crate.
I've got a partially built, original, Centuri Egg Crate.

[John Dyer]

Is the Egg Crate in kit or built form ?
Would like pics either way !
If it's a kit are you still inclined to keep it or could you be pursuaded to sell it ?


LOL... It's been built since the mid 70's. In fact, I was noticing the body tube was never painted - It's white craft paper and I assumed it didn't need painting back then. Whatcha expect from a kid ;)


Anyon know how to reduce the size of a foto in PhotoShop? I remember stumbling on how to do this awhile back, but can't remember....

I'll try taking a few fotos of the whole model for you (not just the decals)...

John

[John Dyer]

John,

Can I post this on YORP?

Certainly. I don't know where the instructions wandered off to (probably thrown away by my mom lo so many years ago), or I'd offer to scan those too. What else do you need? I can take dimensions if you need 'em...


John

[John Dyer]

I've got a partially built, original, Centuri Egg Crate.


Are you talking about the one that was two engine cluster and had a balsa Nose and paper transition section? I've got one of those built too. Can you scan the decals? My roll pattern was damaged quite a ways back...


John

[barone]

LOL... It's been built since the mid 70's. In fact, I was noticing the body tube was never painted - It's white craft paper and I assumed it didn't need painting back then. Whatcha expect from a kid ;)


Anyon know how to reduce the size of a foto in PhotoShop? I remember stumbling on how to do this awhile back, but can't remember....

I'll try taking a few fotos of the whole model for you (not just the decals)...

John

On the tool bar, Select image and then resize...

Don
NAR 53455

[Ltvscout]

Are you talking about the one that was two engine cluster and had a balsa Nose and paper transition section? I've got one of those built too. Can you scan the decals? My roll pattern was damaged quite a ways back...
That's the one, although I thought it was a three engine cluster. It's buried in this mess of a basement somewhere. ;) I do have the decals, somewhere. When they get unearthed I will scan them. Don't hold your breath waiting for them though. :D

[snaquin]

Hopefully it came accross in the proper scale. I included a line that was exactly one inch for size comparison. Sometimes Illustrator can dostrange things when converting to a non-AI format. Or maybe it's me not holding my mouth right when I hit the enter key...

Thanks again for posting the pattern John! I printed out your pattern and the 1" scale line printed out at 1". Too bad my fins are already attached so I guess I'll have to build another later to have my EnerJet Egg Crate as "true scale", just like a real EnerJet guru/fanatic would need it to be ..... ;)

I plugged in the fin pattern from your original and swapped it with my estimated one in RockSim. The file is below as well as a screen print for other members that may not have RockSim available. The egg capsule nose and egg capsule base mass overides in my file are actual as measured on my scale.

Stability with E and F motors show stability with no less than a 1.18 margin. With a G64 however the margin dropped to .93 - all figured with a min payload weight of 1.5oz as per the original instructions. Stability would be better with an egg, at least one of my eggs because they weight about 2oz. Anyone using the file remember to tweak the 1-1/2oz. included mass object to equal the actual mass of your egg or payload as loaded for flight.

John if it's not too much trouble if you get an image of the decals, the little egg ones see what the dimension for those are. I'll need the dimensions to have some decals reproduced :D

.

[John Dyer]

Thanks again for posting the pattern John! I printed out your pattern and the 1" scale line printed out at 1". Too bad my fins are already attached so I guess I'll have to build another later to have my EnerJet Egg Crate as "true scale", just like a real EnerJet guru/fanatic would need it to be ..... ;)

I plugged in the fin pattern from your original and swapped it with my estimated one in RockSim. The file is below as well as a screen print for other members that may not have RockSim available. The egg capsule nose and egg capsule base mass overides in my file are actual as measured on my scale.

Stability with E and F motors show stability with no less than a 1.18 margin. With a G64 however the margin dropped to .93 - all figured with a min payload weight of 1.5oz as per the original instructions. Stability would be better with an egg, at least one of my eggs because they weight about 2oz. Anyone using the file remember to tweak the 1-1/2oz. included mass object to equal the actual mass of your egg or payload as loaded for flight.

John if it's not too much trouble if you get an image of the decals, the little egg ones see what the dimension for those are. I'll need the dimensions to have some decals reproduced :D

.

Ok....
These are a bit fuzzy, but they have a ruler in the foto. The egg is 1 3/8" X 7/8"...

John

[John Dyer]

Thanks again for posting the pattern John! I printed out your pattern and the 1" scale line printed out at 1". Too bad my fins are already attached so I guess I'll have to build another later to have my EnerJet Egg Crate as "true scale", just like a real EnerJet guru/fanatic would need it to be ..... ;)

I plugged in the fin pattern from your original and swapped it with my estimated one in RockSim. The file is below as well as a screen print for other members that may not have RockSim available. The egg capsule nose and egg capsule base mass overides in my file are actual as measured on my scale.

Stability with E and F motors show stability with no less than a 1.18 margin. With a G64 however the margin dropped to .93 - all figured with a min payload weight of 1.5oz as per the original instructions. Stability would be better with an egg, at least one of my eggs because they weight about 2oz. Anyone using the file remember to tweak the 1-1/2oz. included mass object to equal the actual mass of your egg or payload as loaded for flight.

John if it's not too much trouble if you get an image of the decals, the little egg ones see what the dimension for those are. I'll need the dimensions to have some decals reproduced :D


.


Here's the other file. I realized I uploaded the fin pdf again... Loos nut behinds the keyboard ;)

John

[snaquin]

Finished it last night :D :D :D

Fins were cut prior to John posting an actual pattern so fins are slightly oversized. I ordered one sheet of each of the EnerJet logo decals from Phred but I used what I had on hand so the decal is also oversized (it matches the oversized fins). An EnerJet purist or fanatic like myself would also never approve of the two stand-offs for the launch lugs I used instead of mounting one lug to a fin and the other to the egg capsule tube or the LT-125 airframe that I used instead of ST-13. We'll call this one the "sport scale" version of the KE-4 EnerJet Egg Crate :rolleyes:

I am happy with the way it looks though and I am searching for a kit with the proper egg capsule to build another with the correct fins and other corrections I mentioned. I am looking for the egg capsule or #1996 Eggspress or #2072 Scrambler to rob the egg capsule from to build another in the future.

On to more projects ..... :)

.

[Ltvscout]

Finished it last night :D :D :D
Great looking bird, Steve. I see Eggspress's on eBay all the time.

[snaquin]

Great looking bird, Steve. I see Eggspress's on eBay all the time.

Thanks for the compliment Scott. I may have to just break down and get a low limit credit card and become a member of eBay. I was a member a good while back before they required you to store a credit card # with them but like you suggested I do see Eggspress kits on there.

I may just buy one or two from ModelRockets.co.uk and just pay a little extra shipping to get em here .....

[Ltvscout]

I may just buy one or two from ModelRockets.co.uk and just pay a little extra shipping to get em here .....
I'd buy a number of items then to justify the shipping expense. That's what I did when I bought stuff from SierraFox in Italy. When he first got his shipment of OOP stuff years ago I ended up buying like five each Saturn 1b's, V's (the #2001 version), Titan IIIE's and Super Vega's. That helped even out the cost of the shipping. (No none are for sale at this time!)

SierraFox does still have Scramblers in case you want to compare pricing between them and the place in the UK.

[snaquin]

I'd buy a number of items then to justify the shipping expense. That's what I did when I bought stuff from SierraFox in Italy. When he first got his shipment of OOP stuff years ago I ended up buying like five each Saturn 1b's, V's (the #2001 version), Titan IIIE's and Super Vega's. That helped even out the cost of the shipping. (No none are for sale at this time!)

SierraFox does still have Scramblers in case you want to compare pricing between them and the place in the UK.

I'll check out SierraFox over the weekend too.

Thanks again!

[wilsotr]

Seems I saw posted somewhere part numbers for the Semroc equivalent of the Enerjet Egg Crate adapter and nose cone. Now that I want them, I can't find them ... anyone know what they are?

[Chris_Timm]

Semroc parts:

Starting at the top........

ENERJET 1340/20 (virtually the same as the Eggcrate/Eggspress except for fin size)
-------------------
BC-2025 Balsa Nose Cone #20 2.5" Elliptical $4.75
ST-2098 Body Tube #20 9.8" long $1.25
BR-1320L Balsa Reducer #13 to #20 $6.70
ST-13130 Body Tube #13 13.0" Long $1.30

Motor Mount to fit your choice.

ENERJET 1340 (almost a Maniac clone with a payload section)
---------------
BC-1364 Balsa Nose Cone #13 6.4" Rounded Ogive $5.15
or
BC-1327 Balsa Nose Cone #13 2.7" Bezier $3.00

ST-1380 Body Tube #13 8.0" Long $0.95
BTC-13 Balsa Tube Coupler #13 $2.15
ST-13135 Body Tube #13 13.5" Long $1.30

You supply the fin cans.

One 1340/20 tube is short 0.2" from true scale.
One 1340 tube coupler needs an 0.1" exposed length for true scale.
Both body tubes extend 0.5" past fin can.

[wilsotr]

Thanks Chris! Exactly what I was looking for.

[snaquin]

A few pictures from the flight I made this past Saturday in Winnsboro, LA with an Ellis Mountain G35-10 single use motor.

It came off the rod so fast I thought for sure that I had missed the shot and would have a frame of smoke when the pictures were developed.

I used Kodak ISO 800 film with a 75-300mm zoom and a 1/4000sec shutter speed. A bit grainy but it stopped the action pretty well.

It was estimated the EnerJet Egg Crate rode that little flame to slightly over a mile in altitude but it landed in the only part of the entire cotton field that hadn't yet been cut down resulting in a loss of the model. It was visible with the streamer for the entire recovery phase and actually landed near the road into the launch site however trampling the dense cotton field to find it was not an option :(

I have parts to build another and now with John Dyers accurate fin pattern a more accurate model can be built to true scale.
.

[John Dyer]

A few pictures from the flight I made this past Saturday in Winnsboro, LA with an Ellis Mountain G35-10 single use motor.

It came off the rod so fast I thought for sure that I had missed the shot and would have a frame of smoke when the pictures were developed.

I used Kodak ISO 800 film with a 75-300mm zoom and a 1/4000sec shutter speed. A bit grainy but it stopped the action pretty well.

It was estimated the EnerJet Egg Crate rode that little flame to slightly over a mile in altitude but it landed in the only part of the entire cotton field that hadn't yet been cut down resulting in a loss of the model. It was visible with the streamer for the entire recovery phase and actually landed near the road into the launch site however trampling the dense cotton field to find it was not an option :(

I have parts to build another and now with John Dyers accurate fin pattern a more accurate model can be built to true scale.
.



Looks Great! Sorry you lost the model, but glad you have parts to build another!


John

[snaquin]

Looks Great! Sorry you lost the model, but glad you have parts to build another!


John

It gives me the reason to break out some more parts! It bothered me some that my fins were slightly oversized on my model but I had already epoxied them on by the time you found the thread and posted a real pattern. It was a modified Egg Crate anyway that used LT-125 instead of ST-13 tubing and had TTW fins, epoxy construction and a mod to attach the ST-13 capsule base to the LT-125 Semroc tubing. It was basically built in the same manner I would normally build a high power rocket only for use with F and G motors and an extremely long length of red surveyors tape for a streamer.

It was still an exciting flight and it was really moving in those pictures. I checked RockSim to see and these are the estimations:

I used a 72" launch guide 1/4" diameter. Launch guide was cleared at 0.164 seconds. At 0.875 seconds of flight time the model was already at an estimated altitude of 158.26 feet. Max velocity for my Egg Crate on the G35 was estimated to be 597.8 mph.

Also, I noticed on your site you list G motors for your P-Chuter Xtreme. How does it fly on the three G motors you recommend for it?

.

[John Dyer]

It gives me the reason to break out some more parts! It bothered me some that my fins were slightly oversized on my model but I had already epoxied them on by the time you found the thread and posted a real pattern. It was a modified Egg Crate anyway that used LT-125 instead of ST-13 tubing and had TTW fins, epoxy construction and a mod to attach the ST-13 capsule base to the LT-125 Semroc tubing. It was basically built in the same manner I would normally build a high power rocket only for use with F and G motors and an extremely long length of red surveyors tape for a streamer.

It was still an exciting flight and it was really moving in those pictures. I checked RockSim to see and these are the estimations:

I used a 72" launch guide 1/4" diameter. Launch guide was cleared at 0.164 seconds. At 0.875 seconds of flight time the model was already at an estimated altitude of 158.26 feet. Max velocity for my Egg Crate on the G35 was estimated to be 597.8 mph.

Also, I noticed on your site you list G motors for your P-Chuter Xtreme. How does it fly on the three G motors you recommend for it?

.


The PCX on a G screams off the pad! It looks incredible flying on a G71 or G77 RedLine. Unless I'm flying in a really large field, I usually fly it on an F50. At the last launch one of our club members flew a PCX on the Road Runner F45 - looks like I'll be adding that motor to the face card :D

I really like the yellow paint job on your EggCrate - it's sooo much classier than white...


John