Updated "Classic" Designs

[Tau Zero]

Here's an idea to complement Craig's "Scrounged-Up Designs" thread: Classic (instead of ORIGINAL ;) ) model rocket designs updated for the 21st Century.

I approximated this RockSim file from the FSI "Orbit" PDF at "Ye Olde Rocket Plans" (YORP):
http://www.oldrocketplans.com/fsi/fsi1006/fsi1006.htm


FSI Orbit (using Semroc "FSI-size" parts)

BC-8F28 Nose cone
SE-10 Screw Eye
ST-8F90 Body tube
CP-12 Parachute
BR-8F11 Reducer -- 5/8" hollow
ST-1190 Body tube - cut to 8"
LL-122 Launch lug
Kevlar thread
Elastic shock cord
"EM-711" Engine mount*
ST-730 Body tube
TR-7 Thrust ring
2 CR-711 Centering rings*
3/32" Balsa Fin set - not Aircraft Plywood

*These parts not available from Semroc just yet. Please check www.semroc.com.


Motor / Altitude / Velocity at Ejection

A8-3 -- 233 ft. -- 5.30 fps
B4-4 -- 524 ft. -- 13.30 fps
B6-4 -- 530 ft. -- 17.45 fps
C6-5 -- 1095 ft. -- 15.80 fps
C11-5 -- 967 ft. -- 33.15 fps
C11-7 -- 978 ft. -- 30.11 fps
D12-7 -- 1723 ft. -- 9.72 fps


(Steve Naquin, who mistook my Prometheus design for the FSI Orbit, is partially to blame for inspiring this particular project.)


Thanks, and enjoy,

--Jay

[CPMcGraw]

Here's an idea to complement Craig's "Scrounged-Up Designs" thread: Classic (instead of ORIGINAL ;) ) model rocket designs updated for the 21st Century.

I approximated this RockSim file from the FSI "Orbit" PDF at "Ye Olde Rocket Plans" (YORP):
http://www.oldrocketplans.com/fsi/fsi1006/fsi1006.htm

I love it!

That's just what we need, too: More plans to build, more projects to spend time on, more parts to buy!

How else are we going to stay out of trouble?:rolleyes:

[Tau Zero]

I love it!

That's just what we need, too: More plans to build, more projects to spend time on, more parts to buy!

How else are we going to stay out of trouble?:rolleyes:Sometimes I have cool ideas and "I just have to GET THINGS OUT OF MY HEAD SO I CAN *THINK* STRAIGHT!"
...he said, panting rather strenuously.

(I feel much better now. ;) )


Glad you like the idea. :cool:


Cheers,

--Jay

[SEL]

But isn't this just cloning by another name? :confused:

Sean

Here's an idea to complement Craig's "Scrounged-Up Designs" thread: Classic (instead of ORIGINAL ;) ) model rocket designs updated for the 21st Century.

I approximated this RockSim file from the FSI "Orbit" PDF at "Ye Olde Rocket Plans" (YORP):
http://www.oldrocketplans.com/fsi/fsi1006/fsi1006.htm


FSI Orbit (using Semroc "FSI-size" parts)

BC-8F28 Nose cone
SE-10 Screw Eye
ST-8F90 Body tube
CP-12 Parachute
BR-8F11 Reducer -- 5/8" hollow
ST-1190 Body tube - cut to 8"
LL-122 Launch lug
Kevlar thread
Elastic shock cord
"EM-711" Engine mount*
ST-730 Body tube
TR-7 Thrust ring
2 CR-711 Centering rings*
3/32" Balsa Fin set - not Aircraft Plywood

*These parts not available from Semroc just yet. Please check www.semroc.com.


Motor / Altitude / Velocity at Ejection

A8-3 -- 233 ft. -- 5.30 fps
B4-4 -- 524 ft. -- 13.30 fps
B6-4 -- 530 ft. -- 17.45 fps
C6-5 -- 1095 ft. -- 15.80 fps
C11-5 -- 967 ft. -- 33.15 fps
C11-7 -- 978 ft. -- 30.11 fps
D12-7 -- 1723 ft. -- 9.72 fps


(Steve Naquin, who mistook my Prometheus design for the FSI Orbit, is partially to blame for inspiring this particular project.)


Thanks, and enjoy,

--Jay

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

But isn't this just cloning by another name? :confused:

Sean

No, it's Classic Updates. Makes sense to me. How are you going to get FSI parts to clone an FSI bird. Or Centuri for that matter. They don't exist anymore. :D
Count me in!

[Ltvscout]

No, it's Classic Updates. Makes sense to me. How are you going to get FSI parts to clone an FSI bird. Or Centuri for that matter. They don't exist anymore. :D
Count me in!
I do believe Carl's wonder machine will be churning out FSI clone parts in the not too distant future.

[ghrocketman]

He (Carl) is already churning out FSI clone parts isn't he ?

[Ltvscout]

He (Carl) is already churning out FSI clone parts isn't he ?
He's got some now, yes. I believe we're going to see many FSI clone kits in the future though.

[snaquin]

(Steve Naquin, who mistook my Prometheus design for the FSI Orbit, is partially to blame for inspiring this particular project.)


Thanks, and enjoy,

--Jay

Alright Jay, I'll take the blame ;)

I downloaded and saved the FSI Orbit file. I was big into FSI. My interest in FSI is evident in these pictures I posted in the "old pictures of old rockets" thread a while back that I built while I was in high school. My two Orbits, Maverick, Penetrator, OSO are also there with a couple of Mach-1 Darts. There were two versions of the FSI Orbit. The original was short and the later one was longer. I had built both.

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1231

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1232

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1233

I wish I still had some of those FSI originals and I will recreate a few with Semroc parts.

Thanks for the file Jay!

[SEL]

No, it's Classic Updates. Makes sense to me. How are you going to get FSI parts to clone an FSI bird. Or Centuri for that matter. They don't exist anymore. :D
Count me in!

Wow!! You guys are far too picky. If the tube from SEMROC I'm using to build a Centuri Chuter II is the same length and diameter as the original, and the nose cone from SEMROC meets the same specs as the original, and I use the fin pattern from a scan of the original fins, then as far as I'm concerned it's a clone of the Centuri Chuter II kit. Same goes for the FSI replacement parts I'm using from SEMROC to recreate the FSI kits.
Now, I'm not going to go as far as making sloppy cuts on the tubes or intentionally sand the shoulders of the nose cones and transitions so the tubes sit at an angle like the original kits, so maybe you *can* fault me there :)

Sean

[Ltvscout]

Wow!! You guys are far too picky. If the tube from SEMROC I'm using to build a Centuri Chuter II is the same length and diameter as the original, and the nose cone from SEMROC meets the same specs as the original, and I use the fin pattern from a scan of the original fins, then as far as I'm concerned it's a clone of the Centuri Chuter II kit. Same goes for the FSI replacement parts I'm using from SEMROC to recreate the FSI kits.
Now, I'm not going to go as far as making sloppy cuts on the tubes or intentionally sand the shoulders of the nose cones and transitions so the tubes sit at an angle like the original kits, so maybe you *can* fault me there :)

Sean
Heh, some of us got in an "argument" over this awhile back. I was talking about liking to use original parts when possible to "clone" the kits.

Once the paint is on though you really can't tell the difference I suppose. ;)

[SEL]

Alright Jay, I'll take the blame ;)

I downloaded and save the FSI Orbit file. I was big into FSI. My interest in FSI is evident in these pictures I posted in the "old pictures of old rockets" thread a while back that I built while I was in high school. My two Orbits, Maverick, Penetrator, OSO are also there with a couple of Mach-1 Darts. There were two versions of the FSI Orbit. The original was short and the later one was longer. I had built both.

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1231

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1232

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1233

I wish I still had some of those FSI originals and I will recreate a few with Semroc parts.

Thanks for the file Jay!

Great pics, Steve. Other clones I have the parts gathered for are the Voyager II , IV and V, EOS, OSO, Orbit, Stargazer and ECHO. If you need any measurments from the original kits, let me know.

Sean

[SEL]

Heh, some of us got in an "argument" over this awhile back. I was talking about liking to use original parts when possible to "clone" the kits.

Once the paint is on though you really can't tell the difference I suppose. ;)

I remember that . I think at the time tho, we didn't have SEMROC Centuri replacement tubes, and the debate centerd around whether using a BT50, for instance, instead of a ST8, to recreate a Centuri kit was really a clone. In that circumstance I would agree that, technically, no, it's not.

Sean

[SEL]

Alright Jay, I'll take the blame ;)

There were two versions of the FSI Orbit. The original was short and the later one was longer. I had built both.



Steve,

Do you still have both Orbits? I'd be interested in getting the measurements from the older one from you.

Sean

[stefanj]

Now, I'm not going to go as far as making sloppy cuts on the tubes or intentionally sand the shoulders of the nose cones and transitions so the tubes sit at an angle like the original kits, so maybe you *can* fault me there :)

Sean

HAH! Yeah, I got a few of those cones. I think FSI's mighty Raytown manufactory could have used better quality control.

Did I ever mention that I went there? I should have taken pictures. Just a shabby concrete ex-military building, painted tan. The two employees present were kind of rural slackers, and old Harold was ready to cough up a lung.

I have the parts for very-slight upscales of FSI kits. They'll use the foil lined 24mm motor mount tube sold by Totally Tubular.

* * *

One of these days I'll take pictures and make scans of my ultimate FSI find: A 1968 era NOVA and mimeographed instruction sheet. The model was built and painted and maybe flown way back when; the owner donated it to a club auction. The most interesting thing about it: It has a "tubeless" motor mount. Just two centering rings and a stop block.

[SEL]

HAH! Yeah, I got a few of those cones. I think FSI's mighty Raytown manufactory could have used better quality control.

Did I ever mention that I went there? I should have taken pictures. Just a shabby concrete ex-military building, painted tan. The two employees present were kind of rural slackers, and old Harold was ready to cough up a lung.

I have the parts for very-slight upscales of FSI kits. They'll use the foil lined 24mm motor mount tube sold by Totally Tubular.

* * *

One of these days I'll take pictures and make scans of my ultimate FSI find: A 1968 era NOVA and mimeographed instruction sheet. The model was built and painted and maybe flown way back when; the owner donated it to a club auction. The most interesting thing about it: It has a "tubeless" motor mount. Just two centering rings and a stop block.

Ooohhh, yeah! I'd love to see the old instruction sheet!

Sean

[Tau Zero]

But isn't this just cloning by another name? :confused: Technically, yes. :D

The only reason I started another thread was to differentiate it from Craig's original designs. Plus, Carl had most of the parts already up on his website, :D *and* I needed to conduct a RockSim exorcism. :eek:

So, no big deal, really. Just something a little different.


Thanks, and cheers,

--Jay

[SEL]

Technically, yes. :D

The only reason I started another thread was to differentiate it from Craig's orginal designs. Plus, Carl had most of the parts already up on his website, :D *and* I needed to conduct a RockSim exorcism. :eek:

So, no big deal, really. Just something a little different.


Thanks, and cheers,

--Jay

Exactly - no big deal! But keep those Rocksim files a'comin'!! :D
Does Rocksim let you enter a F7 motor?

Sean

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Heh, some of us got in an "argument" over this awhile back. I was talking about liking to use original parts when possible to "clone" the kits.

Once the paint is on though you really can't tell the difference I suppose. ;)

Unless you're extremely ANAL! :eek: :rolleyes:
(Sniff, sniff.) "Say, that isn't a Centuri ST-13! It's an Estes BT-56!"

[Tau Zero]

No, it's Classic Updates. Makes sense to me.Yeah, I didn't think it was necessary to make an *exact* clone, since FSI's 21 and 27mm engines aren't readily available (for most of us, anyway) these days.

You can *use* aircraft plywood for the fins if you *want* (the FSI Orbit's original weight was 1.91 oz.), but if you use 3/32" balsa, RockSim says it should weigh only about 1.2 oz. :D

--Depending on how heavily you apply the paint, of course. :eek:


Count me in!*Dude.* You're in! :cool:


(For the record, when I first got back into rocketry almost 6 years ago, I was a lot more anal-retentive about cloning than I am now. Just ask Bill.)

Bill Eichelberger: "You've got an engine hook in YOUR BUTT?!?" :eek:


Cheers,

--Jay

[Tau Zero]

Exactly - no big deal! But keep those Rocksim files a'comin'!! :D For you FSI fans who can't wait, EMRR already has some RockSim files (all of them by our illustrious Steve Naquin, in fact :D ) available here:

http://www.rocketreviews.com/cgi-bin/search/searchall.cgi?FSI


Does Rocksim let you enter a F7 motor?I'll need to defer to the RS gurus who actually do such things, but yes, I think you could add that engine to the database. I see the Apogee F10 is already included.


Cheers,

--Jay

[snaquin]

Great pics, Steve. Other clones I have the parts gathered for are the Voyager II , IV and V, EOS, OSO, Orbit, Stargazer and ECHO. If you need any measurments from the original kits, let me know.

Sean

Thanks Sean. I may take you up on the measurements for the EOS at a later time since that's one I never had. I say at a later time because if my wife sees the Fed-X or UPS guy at the door again soon I think she'll clobber me ..... :eek:

Steve,

Do you still have both Orbits? I'd be interested in getting the measurements from the older one from you.

Sean

I'll have to look and see if I still have the measurements in my notebook for the original. I bought the original Orbit at a local hobby store and when i discovered FSI was selling through the mail order I purchased another one and only then discovered the one I had purchased at the hobby store was an older, shorter version. The first Orbit I had was sent into orbit on the F7-6 so I no longer have the original.

I'll look and see what I can find.

[snaquin]

Exactly - no big deal! But keep those Rocksim files a'comin'!! :D
Does Rocksim let you enter a F7 motor?

Sean

Yes. The F7 is in the archives at EMRR listed with the "RockSim OOP or Non-Certified Motor Files" here:

http://www.rocketreviews.com/rocksim/engine_file_fsi.zip

If you want me to sim something with the F7 and I have the .rkt rocket file for the rocket you need I can send you or post the results. Let me know.

*****

Edit:
Just for kicks I stuffed an F7 into the RockSim design file Jay made up for the Orbit. Over 4,400 feet.

Fly with FSI!

.

[Tau Zero]

Here's an idea: ...Classic model rocket designs updated for the 21st Century
From http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/nostalgia/72est022.html (right-hand page, rocket on left):

Semroc "Saros" semi-scale clone

BC-734 Nose cone
ST-760 Body tube
BR-79 Balsa Reducer (Transition)
SE-10 Screw Eye
ST-990 Body tube
CP-12 Parachute
LL-122 Launch lug
3/32" Fin set
EM-79 Engine mount**
* ST-730 Body tube
* TR-7 Thrust ring (Engine block)
* 2 - CR-79 centering rings**
* EH-28 Engine hook
1/16" CR-79 "Nozzle" Centering ring**
PR-79 Paper Reducer "Nozzle" (Transition) -- 3/4" long**
Kevlar thread
Elastic shock cord
_____

**Not all parts may be available from Semroc yet.


This version = 21" long, 1.2 oz empty
(Original = 22.5" long, 1.5 oz empty)


Motor / Altitude / Deployment Velocity

A8-3 -- 242 ft. -- 10 fps
B4-4 -- 581 ft. -- 28 fps <- 'Chute shred!
B6-4 -- 589 ft. -- 33 fps <- 'Chute shred!
B6-6 -- 610 ft. -- 31 fps <- 'Chute shred!
C6-7 -- 1298 ft. -- 22 fps (Near shred?)

FYI: 1972 Estes catalog (see above) recommends A8-3, A8-5, B4-4, B6-4, C6-5 motors

Motor protrudes 1/4" from nozzle in "aft" (2nd) image below.


Special thanks to Mike "Moldin' Oldies" Schmidt (for fin measurements) and Mark Thell at NARCON 2006 (for selling me an original [RED!] Estes Saros). ;) :D :cool:


Cheers,

--Jay

[snaquin]

From http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/nostalgia/72est022.html (right-hand page, rocket on left):

Semroc "Saros" semi-scale clone

BC-734 Nose cone
ST-760 Body tube
BR-79 Balsa Reducer (Transition)
SE-10 Screw Eye
ST-990 Body tube
CP-12 Parachute
LL-122 Launch lug
3/32" Fin set
EM-79 Engine mount
* ST-730 Body tube
* TR-7 Thrust ring (Engine block)
* 2 - CR-79 centering rings
* EH-28 Engine hook
1/16" CR-79 "Nozzle" Centering ring
PR-79 Paper Reducer "Nozzle" (Transition)


This version = 21" long, 1.2 oz empty
(Original = 22.5" long, 1.5 oz empty)


Motor / Altitude / Deployment Velocity

A8-3 -- 242 ft. -- 10 fps
B4-4 -- 581 ft. -- 28 fps <- 'Chute shred!
B6-4 -- 589 ft. -- 33 fps <- 'Chute shred!
B6-6 -- 610 ft. -- 31 fps <- 'Chute shred!
C6-7 -- 1298 ft. -- 22 fps (Near shred?)

FYI: 1972 Estes catalog (see above) recommends A8-3, A8-5, B4-4, B6-4, C6-5 motors

Motor protrudes 1/4" from nozzle in "aft" (2nd) image below.


Special thanks to Mike "Moldin' Oldies" Schmidt (for fin measurements) and Mark Thell at NARCON 2006 (for selling me an original [RED!] Estes Saros). ;) :D :cool:


Cheers,

--Jay


Jay

Cool and thanks for the RockSim file :D

With Semroc parts it's an affordable build without having to risk the more fragile cast resin parts kit for $20

Your RockSim file looks great! So I guess this means you'll be saving that original ..... :rolleyes:

[CPMcGraw]

A8-3 -- 242 ft. -- 10 fps

Want to see a neat hack? Plug the A10-3T into that model, and you get 30' more altitude, and you still get a Dv of 10 FPS...

[CPMcGraw]

A8-3 -- 242 ft. -- 10 fps

Jay,

I really like your clone of the old Estes design. Since I opened my mouth about the A10, take a look at this 13mm version. With just-under 300' performance and Dv numbers below 20 FPS, this might be a reasonable way to go.

[snaquin]

Motor / Altitude / Deployment Velocity

A8-3 -- 242 ft. -- 10 fps
B4-4 -- 581 ft. -- 28 fps <- 'Chute shred!
B6-4 -- 589 ft. -- 33 fps <- 'Chute shred!
B6-6 -- 610 ft. -- 31 fps <- 'Chute shred!
C6-7 -- 1298 ft. -- 22 fps (Near shred?)

FYI: 1972 Estes catalog (see above) recommends A8-3, A8-5, B4-4, B6-4, C6-5 motors

Cheers,

--Jay

Jay

You must have resaved that file since you posted those DV's? The B6's appear to be the only selections on the list with DV's above 20 fps when I open the file.

[Tau Zero]

You must have resaved that file since you posted those DV's? The B6's appear to be the only selections on the list with DV's above 20 fps when I open the file.Hmm... The only variables I can think of involve your geographical location and the relative humidity there. ;) :p :rolleyes:

Here's a screenshot (Alt-PrintScreen in Windows XP) from the same file on my computer. <shrug>


Cheers,

--Jay

[snaquin]

Hmm... The only variables I can think of involve your geographical location and the relative humidity there. ;) :p :rolleyes:

Here's a screenshot (Alt-PrintScreen in Windows XP) from the same file on my computer. <shrug>


Cheers,

--Jay

Jay, that must be it. But I didn't realize RockSim changed the saved sim results within a file based on the RockSim program settings on the computer that opens the file, but when I downloaded your file again I get the same data as in my screen print so I guess this is true.

I had always thought RockSim was displaying for me what it displayed for the other user as his "last results" when I first opened the file, unless I choose to rerun the sims.

[JRThro]

Jay, that must be it. But I didn't realize RockSim changed the saved sim results within a file based on the RockSim program settings on the computer that opens the file, but when I downloaded your file again I get the same data as in my screen print so I guess this is true.

I had always thought RockSim was displaying for me what it displayed for the other user as his "last results" when I first opened the file, unless I choose to rerun the sims.
Steve, your deployment velocities are in miles per hour and Jay's are in feet per second. Take a look at both screenshots again.

[snaquin]

Steve, your deployment velocities are in miles per hour and Jay's are in feet per second. Take a look at both screenshots again.

Nice catch! I must have changed the default from fps to mph some time back ..... Thanks I changed it back to the default fps and now it magically matches Jay's numbers :o

[Tau Zero]

"Wagon Train" to the stars, anyone?

Classic model rocket designs updated for the 21st Century.So there I was, perusing "Leo's Leisure Site" (for the first time in a *long* while), when I happened across this particular image:

http://www.leo.nutz.de/images/rockets/Rocket_Ad.jpg

Granted, it doesn't *really* look like the "Star Trek" Starter Kit rocket. But before I knew it, neurons were firing, I had visited Carl McLawhorn's site (www.semroc.com) to look at unusually-shaped nose cones, and, well...

Here you go.


Cheers,

--Jay


+++

"Pioneer"

Semroc Components


BC-523 Nose cone
SE-10 Screw eye
ST-550 Body tube -- 1" inside...
ST-770 Body tube
* Streamer
LL-115 Launch lug
4 - CR-57 Centering rings
ST-520 Body tube
TR-5 Thrust ring
Kevlar thread
Elastic shock cord
3/32" Balsa Fin set


14" L
0.7 oz.


Motor / Max Altitude / Ejection Velocity

1/2A3-4T -- 208 ft. -- 24 fps
A3-4T -- 524 ft. -- 17 fps

+++

[Leo]

Thanks for stopping by Jay :)

That is too cool.

If I read you correctly it will come to life? ;)

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

If I read you correctly it will come to life? ;)

And fly? Outside? In the air? :rolleyes:

[CPMcGraw]

"Wagon Train" to the stars, anyone?

So there I was, perusing "Leo's Leisure Site" (for the first time in a *long* while), when I happened across this particular image:

http://www.leo.nutz.de/images/rockets/Rocket_Ad.jpg

Granted, it doesn't *really* look like the "Star Trek" Starter Kit rocket. But before I knew it, neurons were firing, I had visited Carl McLawhorn's site (www.semroc.com (http://www.semroc.com/)) to look at unusally-shaped nose cones, and, well...

Here you go.

This wasn't the Star Trek rocket, obviously, but this does closely resemble the first model rocket I ever had. If you change that nose cone to one made of cheesy foam, and make that central core out of clear plastic tubing, then put a sleeve of spiral tubing around the bottom half and attach very thin (like 1/20" thick) balsa fins, you'll have a close approximation of what I had. It used that Vashon / Cold Power RP-100 propellant (Freon) to fill the plastic tube, with a short piece of 1/16" diameter aluminum tubing at the bottom for the fill tube/nozzle. There was an epoxy plug with a vent hole at the top, under the foam.

It actually flew fairly well...

[Tau Zero]

That is too cool.

If I read you correctly it will come to life? ;)
And fly? Outside? In the air? :rolleyes:

"If you build it, it will fly." :eek: ;) :D


Cheers,

--Jay

[JRThro]

"If you build it, it will fly." :eek: ;) :D


Cheers,

--Jay
There's *that* old stumbling block again.

[Tau Zero]

Classic model rocket designs updated for the 21st Century.From the Centuri "Rocket Times," Fall/Winter 1978:

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/centuriRT78FallWinter/78FallWintercenRT8.html


...Norman Kang's "Pegasus II." :D

(SEMROC components, of course.) ;)

I managed to figure out the body tube lengths (ST-7, 10.25" L), but my middle-aged eyes are having some difficulty with reading the fin dimensions. (I'll post the URL for this message over on OldRockets, to get Doug Holverson's attention.)

I also realized that the "End View" of the plan omits the ST-8 body tubes, and the launch lug needs to be attached to the 1.75" long ST-8, instead of "between the lower fins" on the ST-7. :eek:

This is yet *another* design that would be Way Cool as an Upscale(tm). :p :cool:

(I'll post updated versions once I get the proganda I just requested.)


Thanks, and cheers,

--Jay Goemmer
"Centuri Guy"

[Tau Zero]

Norman Kang's "Pegasus II"

(I'll post updated versions once I get the proganda I just requested.)Okay, I didn't do too bad for just eyeballing it. My guesses on the wing and rudder measurement were pretty close. I was 1/2" short on the main body tube, though. :eek: :o

Instead of the suggested nose weight, I just used a bigger screw eye. :eek: ;)


"Pegasus II" (Semroc parts list)

BC-716 Nose cone
SE-12 Screw Eye-Large
ST-7107 Body tube -- 10.75" L
ST-805 Body tube -- 0.5" L -- 0.5" fore of ST-817
4 - CR-78 Centering rings
ST-817 Body tube -- 1.75" L -- 4" from aft end of ST-7107
2 - ST-550 Fin Pods -- 5" long -- (1.5" extends aft of wing's "aft" corner)
CP-12 Parachute
LL-117 Launch lug
TR-7 Thrust Ring (Engine block)
Kevlar thread
Elastic cord
Fins -- 3/32" Balsa
(Lower fins mounted 135 degrees from vertical.)

Suggested motors are A8-3, B6-4, and C6-5. I don't account for drag from the wing pods, but those motors should be okay, despite the RockSim results below.*

Motor / Altitude / Ejection Velocity

A8-3 -- 269 ft. -- 16 fps
B6-4* -- 643 ft. -- 43 fps*
B6-6 -- 643 ft. -- 23 fps
C6-5* -- 1364 ft. -- 53 fps*
C6-7 -- 1396 ft. -- 15 fps


Special thanks to Doug Holverson (DGH) for e-mailing a 300dpi version of the scanned plans, which is where I got my "official" information.


Thanks again, and cheers,

--Jay Goemmer
"Centuri Guy"

[Tau Zero]

Classic model rocket designs updated for the 21st Century.
The recent "Vulcan?" thread inspired me to track down this non-kitted Centuri design at JimZ:

http://www.dars.org/jimz/finless.htm


Version 01 has 0.4 oz. clay nose weight, per the original plans at JimZ.


Centuri Finless (using corresponding Semroc parts)

BC-736 Nose cone
ST-7180 Body tube (cut to 4.5" L)
Clay Nose Weight -- 0.4 oz.
BTC-7 Tube coupler (Bulkhead)
SE-12 Screw Eye-Large
CP-12 Parachute
ST-7180 Body tube (cut to 13.5" L, 10.375" Exposed)
TB-7 Thrust Ring (Engine block)*
PR-720 Transition (Paper Reducer), 3.0" L
ST-7180 Body tube (3.0" Inside, 0.125" Exposed)
EH-30 Engine Hook Standard-Plus*
CR-720 Centering Ring
2 - LL-130 Launch Lugs


*--Okay, so I used a TB-7 (instead of a TR-7) along with a 3.0" long engine hook, which you can cut down from an EH-38 hook. Make sure you cut the slot in *front* of the TB-7. And you can add an "outside" Hollow Tubing Coupler to secure the engine hook if you want.


Suggested motors for the original design are listed as A5-2, A8-3, and B4-2. However, RockSim lists the deployment velocity (Dv) on a B4-2 at 85 feet per second (fps)!


Motor / Calibers / Max. Alt. / Dv

A8-3 -- 4.90 -- 221 ft. -- 3.74 fps
B6-4 -- 4.61 -- 508 ft. -- 17.62 fps
C6-5 -- 3.94 -- 1027 ft. -- 13.27 fps

Enjoy!

[Tau Zero]

The Estes Scamp (http://rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=34747) build thread over on The Rocketry Forum (after the Estes Forum disappeared) inspired the following bits of madness.


After consulting the Scamp plans at JimZ (http://www.dars.org/jimz/est1286.htm), and cross-referencing those with "scigs30," it turns out that the 3.125" measurement for the PNC-50X nose cone length is actually 3.25". In other words, substituting a Semroc BNC-50X and a small screw eye will work nicely.

And since I can't leave well enough alone, I worked up 1.36X BT-55 (18mm) and 1.68X BT-60 (24mm) versions of the Scamp as well.

As usual, I have to warn you that the "upscaled" nose cones aren't available from Semroc... just *yet,* anyway.

At any rate, here you go. Enjoy!

[Tau Zero]

This one's for Scott D. Hansen (LTVScout) ;) :D :cool:


From "Ye Olde Rocket Plans":

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/centuri/cenKC-20/cenKC-20.htm


...and the 1972 Centuri catalog:

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/nostalgia/72cen022.html


...not to mention a post by our own Earl Cagle Jr. about the payload capsule length:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=14503&postcount=10


As usual, there's *one* part that's not available from Semroc yet: the 3.5" long clear plastic #10 tube (CPT-1035). :( Additionally, you'll need some Kevlar (tm) thread and elastic cord to attach to the motor mount. :o


I thought I'd try a different way of listing parts, which can be seen in the "01" 2-D pictures below. The 3-D view "02" pictures include the results for various motors.

Please let me know if this format "works" for you a little better.


Thanks, and cheers,

[Ltvscout]

This one's for Scott D. Hansen (LTVScout) ;) :D :cool:


From "Ye Olde Rocket Plans":

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/centuri/cenKC-20/cenKC-20.htm
Heh, thanks. My first kit! You're right, I'm just waiting for Carl to find a CPT-10 supplier.

[jbuscaglia]

Heh, thanks. My first kit! You're right, I'm just waiting for Carl to find a CPT-10 supplier.

You may be able to find a suitable substitute in your local drugstore.

A couple of years ago, I found a clear plastic tube of candy with a plastic pumpkin head at CVS. It looked to be about BT-50 size, so I bought it with the thought of making a rocket for our late October launch. It turned out that the pumpkin head was a perfect fit in ST-10, so the tube should work for the payload tube, although it may take some work to get the label off.

You can find them with different tops just about any time of year, but if you wait until after a holiday, you can get them on sale.

John Buscaglia
NAR 27366
CMASS

[Rocketking]

John, that must be the stuff that shows up in 'Toys R Us' and such as well at all times of year. I'll have to keep an eye out. Thanks for the Tip!

[Tau Zero]

From "Ye Olde Rocket Plans":

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/fsi/fsiMRK-III/fsiMRK-III.htm


This version of the FSI Nova was mutated from my FSI "Orbit" re-implementation earlier in this thread. An 18mm motor mount has been substituted for the original 21/27mm options.

Components are available from Semroc (check their website for CR-711 centering rings).


Cheers,

[Tau Zero]

The Enerjet "Nike-Ram" plans at Ye Olde Rocket Plans:

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/enerjet/enjKE-1/enjKE-1.htm


...and the Enerjet Nike Ram Clones (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=1177&page=1&pp=10) thread:


...featuring David Stribling (rocketguy101)'s "old school" paint job:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=18054&postcount=11


...and more paint schemes courtesy Bob Sanford (Initiator001):

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=21267&postcount=20


...inspired the following madness. :eek:

(I "flipped" the 2D and 3D pictures because of the "paint job measurements" in the parts layout window.)

Enjoy. :cool:

[Initiator001]

Jay,

I weighed my Nike Ram clone which was built with Semroc thick-wall tubing.

It came in at 5.0 ozs. (Without motor or wadding).

Just another data point for your Rocksim file. ;)

Bob

[Tau Zero]

I weighed my Nike Ram clone which was built with Semroc thick-wall tubing.

It came in at 5.0 ozs. (Without motor or wadding).

Just another data point for your Rocksim file. ;) Bob,

*Hmmmm*... That's slightly *more* (cough, cough) :o than RockSim's prediction of 1.8 oz. :eek:

(*I'm* thinkin' it's your way cool paint job. :rolleyes: )


Thanks for the "Real World Correction." ;) :D :cool:


Cheers,

[Initiator001]

*Hmmmm*... That's slightly *more* (cough, cough) :o than RockSim's prediction of 1.8 oz. :eek:

(*I'm* thinkin' it's your way cool paint job. :rolleyes: )


Thanks for the "Real World Correction." ;) :D :cool:





Jay,

I checked the actual Enerjet information on the Nike Ram and the kit is listed as having a net weight of 3.1 ozs.

JADP (Just Another Data Point) :D

Bob

[rocketguy101]

Jay,

I checked the actual Enerjet information on the Nike Ram and the kit is listed as having a net weight of 3.1 ozs.

JADP (Just Another Data Point) :D

Bob

Well, "Old School" weighs 2.5 oz w/o the humongous streamer, 2.9 oz with (painted, no wadding, etc)

BTW your sim pic looks cool! Glad you liked the paint scheme

[Tau Zero]

Okay, here's something a little different. I took the most recent recurring "look how our parts fit together" illustration from an Estes catalog, and tried to make it work "in the real world."

(Or at least a virtual simulation thereof. :eek: :rolleyes: )


The paper transition (reducer)/ motor mount element is taken from my "Tryton" design (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showpost.php?p=12957&postcount=732) over in the "Scrounged" thread, and I lengthened the main body tube so there'd be enough room for the recovery system. :o :p Although you'll probably want a streamer on those B and C flights.

And since it's a payload design, the name "Carrier Wave" (a radio/TV "in joke") seemed rather appropriate. :D


Comments? Questions? Let me know.


(Yes, Craig, I considered a two-stage version, but thought better of it. :rolleyes: ;) )


Cheers,

[Ltvscout]

Okay, here's something a little different. I took the most recent recurring "look how our parts fit together" illustration from an Estes catalog, and tried to make it work "in the real world."
This is a cool one, Jay. I like it. Very old school, classic looking!

[CPMcGraw]

Okay, here's something a little different. I took the most recent recurring "look how our parts fit together" illustration from an Estes catalog, and tried to make it work "in the real world." ... (Yes, Craig, I considered a two-stage version, but thought better of it. :rolleyes: ;) )...

Would still be an interesting simulation...

I agree with Scott, nice classic lines. And from someone who built his own share of RatShack "P-Box" kits in the '70s, I think the name is quite appropriate... :D

(My personal fav was the 3-Transistor Short Wave Radio. Actually managed to secure a few QSL cards with it...)

[Tau Zero]

This is a cool one, Jay. I like it. Very old school, classic looking!Thanks! I think the red, black, and white color scheme makes it look "retro."


I agree with Scott, nice classic lines. And from someone who built his own share of RatShack "P-Box" kits in the '70s, I think the name is quite appropriate... :D ;) :D


Cheers,