New Estes Saturn V at AC Supply

[LeeR]

AC Supply has the new Saturn V listed at $67, and the availability says "late July". Looks like you can order -- place on back order. I did not order, I've got a 2157 I bought 10 years ago. Would like to find out if the new ones really have anything different, and they probably do, so I'll order later ...
:)

New link:
http://www.acsupplyco.com/estes/estes_rockets2004fallnew.htm

[jetlag]

Could not get your link to work, but I did go to AC. Put 2 on backorder, so I guess I'll have to wait.... What a great price, too!
Allen

[JRThro]

Good lord!

$67 is the best price I've seen so far.

And I *really* need to update my favorites list of rocketry vendors. I keep neglecting to look at certain ones, like AC Supply and others, for the new Estes kits.

[LeeR]

I fixed the link in original post -- it is same URL as in the named link, but only seems to work if standalone.

Also, I've ordered several times from AC Supply. Excellent service. And they carry almost everything from Estes, near as I can tell..

[pantherjon]

Placed an order yesterday for one and already received an e-mail saying the package has been shipped!:eek::) And UPS tracking says it will be delivered tomorrow!:D

[JRThro]

Also, I've ordered several times from AC Supply. Excellent service. And they carry almost everything from Estes, near as I can tell..
*And* they're located in my home town, St. Charles, Missouri.

[Mikus]

Good lord!

$67 is the best price I've seen so far.



Same here, order placed. Got me a Super Alpha too. ;)

Thanks for the heads up. :D

[GregGleason]

Placed an order yesterday for one and already received an e-mail saying the package has been shipped!:eek::) And UPS tracking says it will be delivered tomorrow!:D



You may have the privilege of being the first YORF member to look into the new kit and evaluate it. But the first one to post pics will be the "official" winner! :D

Greg

[pantherjon]

You may have the privilege of being the first YORF member to look into the new kit and evaluate it. But the first one to post pics will be the "official" winner! :D

Greg

Unfortunately the Sat V is not in this package.:( They shipped one of the 3 kits I ordered(Super Neon XL)..The other 2 are still listed as 'back ordered'...Should be soon though..

BTW, UPS tracking lists origin city for AC-Supply as Earth City,MO..

[hcmbanjo]

I just visited the AC Supply website.

The main Estes product (with pictures) page says Saturn V available July, 2010

This Availability Page says August, 2010
http://www.acsupplyco.com/estes/available.htm

[UCBadger]

The Estes rockets page Coming Soon (http://www.estesrockets.com/store/coming.html) says "COMING AUGUST 2010!"

Maybe August 9 after NARAM?

[Mikus]

Same here, order placed. Got me a Super Alpha too. ;)

Got my Super Alpha and an Alien Invader yesterday. Y'all didn't mention the slick little catalog AC Supply sent. :cool:

It's very nice. :D

[Jerry Irvine]

Since the first 50 were delivered at NARAM we should see posts soon from iPhone owners, shouldn't we? :D

It is nice to see the new Estes staying focused on the hobby as well as on whatever merchants they still can get. Here in CA they have tried different outlets over the years such as Broadway department store with the Citation series, Michaels, Toys R Us, Wal-Mart, Big lots (presumably for overruns), and others. Maybe the solution for the loss of traditional hobby outlets and the lack of interest by toy retailers is to try a new direction.

How about Home Depot and a co-op like Ace Hardware, that way the cross sales of tools and finishing supplies justifies any seasonality of the line which is always a problem for mass-merchandisers.

Jerry

[ghrocketman]

I was just in my local Michaels last night that is about 1/4 mile from my home and it seems they are pretty much discontinuing "all things Estes" which I saw as disappointing.
They were devoid of all motors excepting the few Alpha III starter sets they had and all rockets were on clearance anywhere from $3.99 to 9.99.
The Bullpup kit seemed to be a bargain at $5.99 but I already have two.

[UCBadger]

As was mentioned earlier (perhaps in another thread), that is what we have seen in Utica, NY.

Can someone answer the question if this was Michael's decision or a decision by the new Estes management to stop supplying national chains such as Michael's in order to support the more general local hobby shops and/or specialized internet rocketry outlets?

[ghrocketman]

I think Michaels gets it's supply from Horizon Hobby who is a direct competitor to Hobbico/Great Planes/Tower who now owns Estes. Not sure if Horizon even handles Estes any longer.

[JRThro]

BTW, UPS tracking lists origin city for AC-Supply as Earth City,MO..
Earth City must be where the warehouse is. It's right across the Missouri River from St. Charles.

[Jerry Irvine]

I think Michaels gets it's supply from Horizon Hobby who is a direct competitor to Hobbico/Great Planes/Tower who now owns Estes. Not sure if Horizon even handles Estes any longer.
I have no direct insight here but I hear from multiple 2nd hand sources that the Hobbico buy of Estes gave rise to a shunning of them by Wal-Mart and also Michaels. Now Michaels could overcome that by second-sourcing hobby items from Hobbico as well as Horizon. Or they could sell Estes at Michaels through Horizon, since they have purchased Estes goods for decades. That would probably raise fur all the way around, but it would be good business.

Heck we sell stuff to Iran for goodness sake.

Wal-Mart has an agenda of always trying to bypass popular national brands after a couple of years with house brands by insisting the national brands do manufacturing in China where the vendors have no respect whatsoever for intellectual property rights and are anxious to sell clones to Wallyworld. Why that known series of events is not a crime here despite the actions partially happening here I will never understand.

Thank goodness model rocket motors are NOT readily cloned.

Jerry

[raohara]

Not sure if Horizon even handles Estes any longer.
Horizon no longer carries Estes. They cleared out their Estes stuff a month or so ago. The retailers got some great prices during that sale!

- Rich

[Rocket Doctor]

from what I understand, walMaart isn't carrying anything in the "put it together yourself" category.

They got rid of Revell/Monogram plastic model kits (Hobbico) and now they dropped estes.

Also, from what I understand, WM made Estes "jump through a hoop" inorder to stay in WM. Example, the Sustainables, they only ordered a small amount and didn't order again.

It's WM's loss.

[Rocket Doctor]

There were 50 Satrun V's availaable at NARAM 52m alkl with serial numbers. The very first one was being put up for the Robert "Bob" Cannon memorial auction.

I understand that more will be available later this month.

[ghrocketman]

I for one can't stand the entire WalMutt business model and refuse to even set foot in their stores now that I am divorced. The ex wife used to drag me in those gawd-awful stores that try to be the jack-of-all-trades king-of-none carry a little-of-everything but not-much-of-anything.
Their motto should be "Always Low Wages and Benefits along with poor supplier/vendor relations-Always"
Their supposed store "managers" are not managers at all; they are corporate order-following DRONES that are allowed zero local managerial autonomy whatsoever.
I gladly shop at local stores and chains that cost a little more but actually pay their employees a LIVING wage/benefit package that does not have to be supplemented by some sort of gubmint assistance. Compare Costco to Sam's Club for example. One will be able to quickly deduce which employer treats their employees better if one did a little research.
Find me a happy/satisfied WalMutt employee and you have one of two choices; the person is either a retiree that does the job to keep active and does not need the money or is a Corporate (non store-level) Employee.

Store-brands SUCK and I like those even less than WalMutt business model. "Look at this brand exclusive to XYZ Mart" conveys a feeling of "well we are mediocre and almost as good, but with none of the recognition of the real brand"
A good example of this is cheap off-brand golf club clones- Would you really want to play a decent brand like a Callaway Big Bertha or Taylor Made or Ping or play some backwater Elbonia produced Honest Al's golf big-swatter clubs ?

[jdbectec]

I think Michaels gets it's supply from Horizon Hobby who is a direct competitor to Hobbico/Great Planes/Tower who now owns Estes. Not sure if Horizon even handles Estes any longer.


Both of those companies are headquarted here in Champaign-Urbana (oddly enough), I used to think there was a connection, but there apparently isn't. :confused:

They are probably less than 10 miles apart.

Horizon still has Estes listed on their retail website, but some of the items are marked as being out of stock. :confused:

[Rocket Doctor]

I for one can't stand the entire WalMutt business model and refuse to even set foot in their stores now that I am divorced. The ex wife used to drag me in those gawd-awful stores that try to be the jack-of-all-trades king-of-none carry a little-of-everything but not-much-of-anything.
Their motto should be "Always Low Wages and Benefits along with poor supplier/vendor relations-Always"
Their supposed store "managers" are not managers at all; they are corporate order-following DRONES that are allowed zero local managerial autonomy whatsoever.
I gladly shop at local stores and chains that cost a little more but actually pay their employees a LIVING wage/benefit package that does not have to be supplemented by some sort of gubmint assistance. Compare Costco to Sam's Club for example. One will be able to quickly deduce which employer treats their employees better if one did a little research.
Find me a happy/satisfied WalMutt employee and you have one of two choices; the person is either a retiree that does the job to keep active and does not need the money or is a Corporate (non store-level) Employee.

Store-brands SUCK and I like those even less than WalMutt business model. "Look at this brand exclusive to XYZ Mart" conveys a feeling of "well we are mediocre and almost as good, but with none of the recognition of the real brand"
A good example of this is cheap off-brand golf club clones- Would you really want to play a decent brand like a Callaway Big Bertha or Taylor Made or Ping or play some backwater Elbonia produced Honest Al's golf big-swatter clubs ?



You are 100% correct. WalMart is known for not having stock on the shelves, go into any WM and go up and down any aisle, there are so many open spots. I have gone to the manager, asst manager and front end person to no avail.

I told them straight out, if you don't have the items on the shelves, then, the consumer will shop elsewhere, but, if WM is the only "kid on the block" then, what are you to do.

Every inch of shelf space means dollars signs to WM.

You are correct about their "greatValue" store brand items, they do SUCK. And, even their Relion Brand brand items leave much to be desired.

The last time I checked, there were 5 out of 10 in the Forbes billion dollar club, and they were from walMaart."Save Money, Live better", Spend more and get less.

If you go to the pharmacy, drop off a RX, they will tell you to come ack in an hour, they may offer $4 and $10 prescriptions, but, that is made up in have much stuff ypu put into your cart.

Corporate America, isn't it great....................

[GuyNoir]

If you go to the pharmacy, drop off a RX, they will tell you to come ack in an hour, they may offer $4 and $10 prescriptions, but, that is made up in have much stuff ypu put into your cart.

Order prescriptions online. Then duck in, pick up and duck out. Cheap prescriptions. No cart full of stuff.

[LeeR]

There were 50 Satrun V's availaable at NARAM 52m alkl with serial numbers. The very first one was being put up for the Robert "Bob" Cannon memorial auction.

I understand that more will be available later this month.
I was the one that started this thread about Saturns listed at AC Supply at $67. And I bought one of the NARAM Saturn V kits on Sunday. :D

Glad to pay full price for the experience:
I got #13 of 50. And the most gratifying part -- Mike Dorffler was in the booth, and I had a chance to talk to him. The Estes staff was incredibly courteous, asked him to sign it for me, and when I asked Mike if I could take his picture, a booth staffer asked me to come into the booth, took my camera, and took a picture of me with Mike. (I'll get it off the camera and post ...)

I only drove down for the day, and did not fly, but instead visited Semroc and other vendors to spend a bunch of money. I also met some fellow YORF'ers, like Initiator001 (Bob Sanford), and Bob Kaplow, who I "met" on r.m.r. MANY years ago. Bill Simon of Estes fame ws in the Semroc booth, and that was a real surprise to meet him. Semroc, ever the class act, was having Bill autograph Sky Hook kits (with Bill's 1960s era picture on it), and giving them away.

Wow, what a great day!

[ghrocketman]

The more I read, the more I realize I may have missed one of the best NARAMs ever.
I even had to miss the one a few years back in my home state due to a last minute business trip.
THAT really stunk as the business trip was a glad-handing worthless political boondoggle.

[tbzep]

The more I read, the more I realize I may have missed one of the best NARAMs ever.

I agree. Unfortunately, I have to miss it every year because we are not allowed to miss in-service for any reason. If I were to croak, they would make me sit up in my casket and take notes. :eek:

[Bill]

I am surprised that nobody has uploaded any pictures, so here are pictures of my box...


Bill

[Pem Tech]

I for one can't stand the entire WalMutt business model and refuse to even set foot in their stores now that I am divorced. The ex wife used to drag me in those gawd-awful stores that try to be the jack-of-all-trades king-of-none carry a little-of-everything but not-much-of-anything.
Their motto should be "Always Low Wages and Benefits along with poor supplier/vendor relations-Always"



Amen to that brother.....
I gave them 10 years of my life, with nothing to show for it and my father put in 25, and was NEVER appreciated.

[barone]

I am surprised that nobody has uploaded any pictures, so here are pictures of my box...


Bill
Thanks Bill! :) I'm looking forward to seeing a box at the local Hobby Lobby during a 40% off week...... :D

[UCBadger]

Thanks Bill! :) I'm looking forward to seeing a box at the local Hobby Lobby during a 40% off week...... :D
We are getting a new Hobby Lobby opening in the next month or so. Would someone (please) fill me in on their 40% off sales, coupons, event, whatever they have.

Thanks,

Curtis

[tbzep]

We are getting a new Hobby Lobby opening in the next month or so. Would someone (please) fill me in on their 40% off sales, coupons, event, whatever they have.

Thanks,

Curtis

Check here every week, or subscribe to their email notice.
http://www.hobbylobby.com/weekly/weekly.cfm

[LeeR]

I am surprised that nobody has uploaded any pictures, so here are pictures of my box...


Bill
I have been meaning to upload mine all week. The first is a picture of Mike Dorffler and me -- Estes personnel invited me into the booth and took our picture, when I had asked Mike if he would mind if l took his picture. The next is of Mike Dorffler signing my kit - #13/50. It was a really an honor to meet Mike. Next is a Saturn family shot - a #2001, a #2157 30th Anniversary Edition, and the new #2157 commemorative NARAM-52 edition.

I've got another 2001, it is about ready for primer, and another older 2157. I guess I'm still more of a collector of these than a builder. :o

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii220/hobbes_pics/Miscellaneous%20Rockets/th_mike-me.jpg (http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii220/hobbes_pics/Miscellaneous%20Rockets/?action=view&current=mike-me.jpg)http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii220/hobbes_pics/Miscellaneous%20Rockets/th_mike-dorffler-signing.jpg (http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii220/hobbes_pics/Miscellaneous%20Rockets/?action=view&current=mike-dorffler-signing.jpg)http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii220/hobbes_pics/Miscellaneous%20Rockets/th_s-vversions.jpg (http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii220/hobbes_pics/Miscellaneous%20Rockets/?action=view&current=s-vversions.jpg)

[Bill]

I opened the box and looked through the kit tonight. It looks very similar to the previous version except for two things: the centering rings are laser cut and some of the decals in the main sheet do not have the needed white background, so Estes provided a second smaller sheet with the corrected markings.

And before anyone asks, I bought the kit to build, not to collect. That is why I waited until Friday to buy it so that the collectors have more of a shot at the lower numbers.


Bill

[be69ar]

I opened the box and looked through the kit tonight. It looks very similar to the previous version except for two things: the centering rings are laser cut and some of the decals in the main sheet do not have the needed white background, so Estes provided a second smaller sheet with the corrected markings.

And before anyone asks, I bought the kit to build, not to collect. That is why I waited until Friday to buy it so that the collectors have more of a shot at the lower numbers.


Bill


...just as a quick update, the new 2157 Saturn V release is the same as the old kit with the exception of a few small improvements. I had the capsule tower mold repaired...it had a lot of flash and was missing a nozzle or 2. The vac formed wraps were in good shape and the new vendor did a great job of pullng those. We had a new chute made to "look" like the full size version, but it says Estes in the middle...and we fixed a few issues with the old instructions...hopefully some steps are clearer now. Other than that and being in a smaller box, the kit is the same as the last time.
...and to everyone that stopped by our booth at NARAM 52...thanks for the kind words of support and welcome...it means a great deal to all of us at the rocket ranch.
Mike Fritz
Estes

[Doug Sams]

(snip very informative update)Mike,

This is really awesome seeing you guys in here updating us with this kind of info. It's a breath of fresh air.

Thanks.

BTW, I'll probably get one of these...to go with the 2157 I have still in the box :)

Doug

.

[tbzep]

We had a new chute made to "look" like the full size version, but it says Estes in the middle...

I love my old Centuri Saturn V chutes with a similar design, so I'm looking forward to the new ones. :cool:

[LeeR]

Mike,

This is really awesome seeing you guys in here updating us with this kind of info. It's a breath of fresh air.

Thanks.

[snip]

Doug

.

Mike,

Dittos to what Doug said about your participation here. And I can only say that I didn't really tell you in person at NARAM how much the "New Estes" means to all of us. Or if I did, I forgot, I was so surprised to see Mike Dorffler in the booth!


Thanks again,

[be69ar]

As was mentioned earlier (perhaps in another thread), that is what we have seen in Utica, NY.

Can someone answer the question if this was Michael's decision or a decision by the new Estes management to stop supplying national chains such as Michael's in order to support the more general local hobby shops and/or specialized internet rocketry outlets?



...like a number of mass merchants or hobby/craft specialists, Michaels resets their Plan O Gram twice yearly. August is usually the month when they switch over, which means they deplete the existing inventory and get ready for the new POG layout. Michaels will have a different look this year...more RTF type of POG. Hobby Lobby on the other hand is increasing their hobby space, so they will have and expanded Estes line, Michaels a reduced hobby line...and for the record, Horizon has or had nothing to do with either Michaels or Hobby Lobby.
Mike

[Shreadvector]

...like a number of mass merchants or hobby/craft specialists, Michaels resets their Plan O Gram twice yearly. August is usually the month when they switch over, which means they deplete the existing inventory and get ready for the new POG layout. Michaels will have a different look this year...more RTF type of POG. Hobby Lobby on the other hand is increasing their hobby space, so they will have and expanded Estes line, Michaels a reduced hobby line...and for the record, Horizon has or had nothing to do with either Michaels or Hobby Lobby.
Mike

How do we get Hobby Lobby to expand into California? :D

[Ltvscout]

...like a number of mass merchants or hobby/craft specialists, Michaels resets their Plan O Gram twice yearly. August is usually the month when they switch over, which means they deplete the existing inventory and get ready for the new POG layout. Michaels will have a different look this year...more RTF type of POG. Hobby Lobby on the other hand is increasing their hobby space, so they will have and expanded Estes line, Michaels a reduced hobby line...and for the record, Horizon has or had nothing to do with either Michaels or Hobby Lobby.
Mike

Thanks for clearing that up for everyone, Mike.

[Ltvscout]

How do we get Hobby Lobby to expand into California? :D
Or Milwaukee? ;) We have HL's in WI, but none near me.

[bacasino]

How do we get Hobby Lobby to expand into California? :D


YES.......PLEASE.....




Brett

[barone]

Hmmmmm......what kind of fee can I expect for using 40% off coupons for out of staters?........ ;)

[Royatl]

...just as a quick update, ..... The vac formed wraps were in good shape and the new vendor did a great job of pullng those.

...and to everyone that stopped by our booth at NARAM 52...thanks for the kind words of support and welcome...it means a great deal to all of us at the rocket ranch.
Mike Fritz
Estes

Hi Mike,

Was wondering if there had been any problem with the old 2157 with the S-II to S-IV-B conical wrap. I bought four kits back when they came out in '99, eventually sold two, and started building one this year (not the biggest priority for me), but either the wrap is wrong or the underlying paper transition is wrong. The plastic wrap doesn't go all the way around, and has big gaps at the top. Of course, maybe ten years in a couple of closets didn't help things :) , but all the other plastic wraps seem to be ok. (and I remember everything fitting perfectly when I built one of the first Centuri ones back in early '69 ;) )

I have a plan for making it fit, but thought I'd ask in case I should expect the same problem in the remaining kit I have.

I really wish I could've been there at NARAM last week. As an aside, I was at a big Hobbytown USA yesterday while they were doing a reset of their rocket department, and the manager of the department commented to me that he was shocked at all the "cool new stuff Estes has got this year." I picked up an Alien Invader and a Super Alpha.

[tbzep]

Hi Mike,

Was wondering if there had been any problem with the old 2157 with the S-II to S-IV-B conical wrap. I bought four kits back when they came out in '99, eventually sold two, and started building one this year (not the biggest priority for me), but either the wrap is wrong or the underlying paper transition is wrong. The plastic wrap doesn't go all the way around, and has big gaps at the top. Of course, maybe ten years in a couple of closets didn't help things :) , but all the other plastic wraps seem to be ok. (and I remember everything fitting perfectly when I built one of the first Centuri ones back in early '69 ;) )

I have a plan for making it fit, but thought I'd ask in case I should expect the same problem in the remaining kit I have.

I really wish I could've been there at NARAM last week. As an aside, I was at a big Hobbytown USA yesterday while they were doing a reset of their rocket department, and the manager of the department commented to me that he was shocked at all the "cool new stuff Estes has got this year." I picked up an Alien Invader and a Super Alpha.

It's not just your kits. My son is about ready to prime a #2157 that I gave him. He had to rip the paper shroud off and draw up a new one that allowed the styrene wrap to fit.

[Mikus]

...and to everyone that stopped by our booth at NARAM 52...thanks for the kind words of support and welcome...it means a great deal to all of us at the rocket ranch.
Mike Fritz
Estes

I take every kind word I said about Estes back.

Umm... Die Estes Die!!! :mad:

[Cohetero-negro]

...just as a quick update, the new 2157 Saturn V release is the same as the old kit with the exception of a few small improvements. I had the capsule tower mold repaired...it had a lot of flash and was missing a nozzle or 2. The vac formed wraps were in good shape and the new vendor did a great job of pullng those. We had a new chute made to "look" like the full size version, but it says Estes in the middle...and we fixed a few issues with the old instructions...hopefully some steps are clearer now. Other than that and being in a smaller box, the kit is the same as the last time.
...and to everyone that stopped by our booth at NARAM 52...thanks for the kind words of support and welcome...it means a great deal to all of us at the rocket ranch.
Mike Fritz
Estes


OMFG ... we have 3 active Estes Employees on this forum!!! Nice, very nice.

Nice to meet you Mike and thank you for the sale ... I have #20 :)

It will be collected and I will just buy the $67 instance to build.

Jonathan

[Cohetero-negro]

How do we get Hobby Lobby to expand into California? :D


Fred,

Easy ... lower your taxes for merchants.

Jonathan

[UCBadger]

Fred,

Easy ... lower your taxes for merchants.

JonathanI could see how it would be difficult for a merchant who sells a lot of stuff "known by the State of California to cause cancer" to operate in that state. :rolleyes:



In case you don't know, California has decided to be the watch dog in that area. We get a lot of chemicals and lab supplies (in New York) that have a small sticker on them that state the above. I am sure that good citizens (and tax payers) of that state are being well served by the state agency which oversees this effort. The rest of the country thanks you. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[JRThro]

I agree. Unfortunately, I have to miss it every year because we are not allowed to miss in-service for any reason. If I were to croak, they would make me sit up in my casket and take notes. :eek:
Tim,

What are the dates of your in-service next year? NARAM-53 is going to be the week of July 23-29, 2011.

[Earl]

...just as a quick update, the new 2157 Saturn V release is the same as the old kit with the exception of a few small improvements. I had the capsule tower mold repaired...it had a lot of flash and was missing a nozzle or 2. The vac formed wraps were in good shape and the new vendor did a great job of pullng those. We had a new chute made to "look" like the full size version, but it says Estes in the middle...and we fixed a few issues with the old instructions...hopefully some steps are clearer now. Other than that and being in a smaller box, the kit is the same as the last time.
...and to everyone that stopped by our booth at NARAM 52...thanks for the kind words of support and welcome...it means a great deal to all of us at the rocket ranch.
Mike Fritz
Estes

Mike-

I hesitate to highjack a thread, but....

I think it would be nice for the Estes folks on this forum to take note of the responses that are coming in about the news from Semroc. Just when it appeared that many folks were begining to 'feel good' about Estes again, this latest news about the approach towards Semroc is probably gonna sour many, many people towards that recently improved goodwill.

I'm just making these statements as an observer, but wow! Based on the comments I've read here about how positive people were (for the first time in a LONG time) about Estes and now this news about how they are (seemingly) treating one of the greatest forces of good in model rocketry today (Semroc), is really, really sad to read.

I hope and pray that a reasonable agreement can be reached between Hobbico and Semroc on this matter. Actually, many probably believe that having Semroc around only HELPS Estes/Hobbico......not hurt them in any way.

The hobby NEEDS folks like Carl and company around. The hobby would be a much poorer place without them.

Sincerely,

Earl

[tbzep]

Tim,

What are the dates of your in-service next year? NARAM-53 is going to be the week of July 23-29, 2011.

We always start inservice the last week of July and start school the first week of August. On top of that, I can't miss football practice. A substitute teacher just doesn't fly in athletics.

[tbzep]

Mike-

I hesitate to highjack a thread, but....

I think it would be nice for the Estes folks on this forum to take note of the responses that are coming in about the news from Semroc. Just when it appeared that many folks were begining to 'feel good' about Estes again, this latest news about the approach towards Semroc is probably gonna sour many, many people towards that recently improved goodwill.



I agree. I'm starting to feel sick about buying the recent new and classic releases including my pre-order of a Saturn V. I personally will not buy another Estes motor or product of any type until I see how this unfolds, including our school rocketry programs. I hope they can see that Carl has done much more for them than he could ever do to harm them and do the right thing.

[ghrocketman]

tbzep, I could not have said it better myself.
Just as I was about ready to jump in and pick up a Saturn V, Magician, Long Tom and Satellite Interceptor they go and pull this baloney on Semroc.
I am REALLY glad I did not place my orders yet.

Until this works out, my purchases will be Semroc for kits/parts and Aerotech for engines, PERIOD. I am going to suggest the same for all other rocketry friends as well.

This flat out stinks.
Maybe a court will see the previous Estes ignoring the Semroc kits FOR YEARS as implicit authorization for a summary dismissal. Who knows. All I know is that if Semroc ends up getting screwed out of being able to produce ANY of the fine kits that they brought to market in a TIMELY fashion in response to what WE truly wanted with next to no influence by any bean-counting pencil-necked number crunchers, I will be lost forever as an Estes customer.

[jetlag]

AND, any of my friends, acquaintances, school groups, scouts, 4-H, etc. will be encouraged to do likewise.
I think it is too late for Estes to recover their copyrights, since they did nothing all those years when they truly did not care.
But, I'm no lawyer, so we'll have to see what happens. I see Mr. Piester's points, but it's too late.
Better get your clone kits now before the other cottage rocket manufacturers get the same letter. Otherwise, we will be held prisoner (except those of us that build from scratch).
Allen

[UCBadger]

The Estes rockets page Coming Soon (http://www.estesrockets.com/store/coming.html) says "COMING AUGUST 2010!"

Maybe August 9 after NARAM?The Estes Saturn V page (http://www.estesrockets.com/store/rockets/002157-saturn-v.html) now says "in stock."

[tbzep]

I have a tracking number for my #2157 from AC Supply. :cool:

[Ltvscout]

The Estes Saturn V page (http://www.estesrockets.com/store/rockets/002157-saturn-v.html) now says "in stock."
Whoa. Isn't anyone discounting them yet?

[pantherjon]

Whoa. Isn't anyone discounting them yet?

Yes..Hangar11 (http://www.hangar11.com/) is..You have to log in to see the discounted price though..AC Supply had them on discount for $63.00 for pre-orders.;)

BTW, just got tracking info that mine I pre-ordered has been shipped!:D

[motley16]

People the saturn v is out. Get yours today. As i stated in an earlyer post this kit would be out on 8/18/10. There are big things to follow and my word is gold thegates have opened on a much awaited kit. Just wait till the rest of the big boys hit. We all will get our happy faces on. :)

[JRThro]

There are big things to follow and my word is gold the gates have opened on a much awaited kit. Just wait till the rest of the big boys hit. We all will get our happy faces on. :)
It's great to hear that!

Could you tell us what your connection to the industry is, so we understand why your word is gold?

[wickball]

Why is it that the older we get, the harder it is to put in an order for something we truly treasure and not feel guilty about it! After a couple of beers, I put my order in! Yeah!

wick

[BEC]

I picked up my Saturn V from Rich O'Hara today :). Now I gotta get in the house past my wife often sits at the computer just inside the front door....:rolleyes: The main issue is where the heck am I going to put it both now and after I build it. This is the first rocket I've had that comes in a box the size of one used for a fair-sized RC airplane.....

[motley16]

It's great to hear that!

Could you tell us what your connection to the industry is, so we understand why your word is gold?
You know what they say about telling others your most sacred insider knowledge......Well lets just say it is best I not say. I have given my word that I would keep my contact in the shadows and never say whom I talk with. I am goldenboy :chuckle:

[UCBadger]

Why is it that the older we get, the harder it is to put in an order for something we truly treasure and not feel guilty about it! After a couple of beers, I put my order in! Yeah!

wick
Remember the price of gold is now well over $1,000 per ounce.

[JumpJet]

I would really like to hear about what the big boys are that are coming out soon so I can go back to my office to design them.


The one thing I do know is that the Saturn V kit has begun shipping. I don't know the quantities or to where the shipments are going but they are being shipped.


John Boren

[rokitflite]

It's great to hear that!

Could you tell us what your connection to the industry is, so we understand why your word is gold?


Hush John! Just blindly worship! Anyone known as "goldenboy" MUST be worshipped NOT questioned!

[JRThro]

Hush John! Just blindly worship! Anyone known as "goldenboy" MUST be worshipped NOT questioned!
Yeah, okay.

But what I really want is a Quest Quad Runner, and I see that the availability date has been moved back to October.
:(

[LeeR]

I picked up my Saturn V from Rich O'Hara today :). Now I gotta get in the house past my wife often sits at the computer just inside the front door....:rolleyes: The main issue is where the heck am I going to put it both now and after I build it. This is the first rocket I've had that comes in a box the size of one used for a fair-sized RC airplane.....

Simple, you carry it into the house with a bouquest of flowers for the little lady ...
:)

Or you hide it and sneak it into your favorite hiding place (shop, garage, basement, attic) after she has fallen asleep.

I've been married for over 35 years and so I've got years of experience trying other methods. These two provide the best results so far.

[JRThro]

Simple, you carry it into the house with a bouquest of flowers for the little lady ...
:)

Or you hide it and sneak it into your favorite hiding place (shop, garage, basement, attic) after she has fallen asleep.

I've been married for over 35 years and so I've got years of experience trying other methods. These two provide the best results so far.
I also sneak things in when my wife is either out of the house or occupied on her computer. Those work pretty well too, in addition to doing it when she's asleep like Lee suggested.
:)

[wilsotr]

Why is it that the older we get, the harder it is to put in an order for something we truly treasure and not feel guilty about it! After a couple of beers, I put my order in! Yeah!

wick

It's that whole "responsibility" thing ........... < sigh >

[BEC]

Simple, you carry it into the house with a bouquest of flowers for the little lady ...
:)

Or you hide it and sneak it into your favorite hiding place (shop, garage, basement, attic) after she has fallen asleep.

I've been married for over 35 years and so I've got years of experience trying other methods. These two provide the best results so far.

I had to literally laugh out loud reading that last night....and my wife wondered what I was laughing at. By that time I had gotten the kit in the house and stashed. :)

OTOH, the occasional "just because" bunch of flowers - or even a single rose - does work wonders. BTW, we just had our 32nd anniversary this year.

[LeeR]

Wow, it must have been a subliminal thing when I typed my first reply on getting rocket stuff into the house... I typed "bouquest" of flowers, instead of "bouquet" ...

I guess I was thinking of that 40% discount at Quest ... and speaking of Quest, that order was placed tonight with just hours to spare!

[Mikus]

I also sneak things in when my wife is either out of the house or occupied on her computer. Those work pretty well too, in addition to doing it when she's asleep like Lee suggested.
:)

My approach: "Hey honey, look at this wonderful Saturn V kit that I have longed for since I was 12. It cost $100 but I got it for $67." :D

Always turn a negative into a positive I say. ;)

I guess I'll find out tomorrow, mine is in Houston as of 90 mins ago. I wonder if UPS will mind me coming to pick it up. :chuckle:

[Pem Tech]

My approach: "Hey honey, look at this wonderful Saturn V kit that I have longed for since I was 12. It cost $100 but I got it for $67." :D

Always turn a negative into a positive I say. ;)

I guess I'll find out tomorrow, mine is in Houston as of 90 mins ago. I wonder if UPS will mind me coming to pick it up. :chuckle:

Mine just shipped and I don't think there will be a "problem" with the misses because:
1. It comes out of Company Funds as research
2. She is almost never curious about the large boxes that arrive on our doorstep.

But I like the "longed for since I was 12" argument.
:D

[JSP]

I stash stuff in my rocket room and then use the "Oh, I've had that for a long time" line. "A long time" is, of course, relative...

[JRThro]

But I like the "longed for since I was 12" argument.
I like that argument a lot, but I can't use it.... and somehow "longed for since I was 46" just doesn't pack the same emotional punch.

[tbzep]

I just came home to find my Saturn V from AC Supply. :cool: :D

[zog139]

Has anyone opened one of these beasties to see what has changed ? Plastic wraps ? "New" style parachutes or plain single color ? Decals are waterslide ?

[jeffyjeep]

My approach: "Hey honey, look at this wonderful Saturn V kit that I have longed for since I was 12. It cost $100 but I got it for $67." :D

Always turn a negative into a positive I say. ;)

I guess I'll find out tomorrow, mine is in Houston as of 90 mins ago. I wonder if UPS will mind me coming to pick it up. :chuckle:
My (2) Saturn V kits just arrived. MY wife will retaliate by buying 6 pairs of shoes. Why 6 pairs of shoes?


Wait for it.


Wait for it.


Wait for it.


She had to. They were ON SALE.

[Rocket Doctor]

But, she only has two feet and can only wear one pair at a time. So, maybe you should buy four more Sat V's to be equal...............

[GregGleason]

My (2) Saturn V kits just arrived. MY wife will retaliate by buying 6 pairs of shoes. Why 6 pairs of shoes?


Wait for it.


Wait for it.


Wait for it.


She had to. They were ON SALE.


Man I love happy endings!

:D

Speaking of Saturn V's, is AC still the cheapest?

Greg

[LeeR]

Has anyone opened one of these beasties to see what has changed ? Plastic wraps ? "New" style parachutes or plain single color ? Decals are waterslide ?

I bought a commemorative edition at NARAM (kit # 13/50), and asked a man in the booth if it was changed at all. He said they redid the molds for the wraps, and cleaned up some things, but did not change/upgrade anything over the 30th anniversary #2157 kit from 1999.

I heard the decal sheet had some white background missing in one area, so they included a smaller replacement to go with the main decal sheet.

Mine was signed by Mike Dorffler, so it is not getting opened just yet ... :)

[jeffyjeep]

Man I love happy endings!

:D

Speaking of Saturn V's, is AC still the cheapest?

Greg
It might be, since it's free shipping over $100 and no sales tax.

[GregGleason]

It might be, since it's free shipping over $100 and no sales tax.

Ok, Jeff, I just pulled the trigger. I ordered my Saturn V with an Interceptor-E, which just put it past the $100 mark.

Greg

[jeffyjeep]

Excellent! Don't forget--your wife gets to buy shoes now.

[jeffyjeep]

I bought a commemorative edition at NARAM (kit # 13/50), and asked a man in the booth if it was changed at all. He said they redid the molds for the wraps, and cleaned up some things, but did not change/upgrade anything over the 30th anniversary #2157 kit from 1999.

I heard the decal sheet had some white background missing in one area, so they included a smaller replacement to go with the main decal sheet.

Mine was signed by Mike Dorffler, so it is not getting opened just yet ... :)
Sandman makes an excellent CM wrap decal.

[GregGleason]

Excellent! Don't forget--your wife gets to buy shoes now.

Well ... I think I'm off the hook. My wife broke her foot about 6 hours ago. :eek:

Needless to say, I was put in charge of dinner for the children while she was at an emergency room. She's now at home, resting with a new "shoe" (i.e., the medical kind) on her broken foot.

As she said, "Timing is everything".

Greg

[timorley]

Mine showed up from AC tonight. Somehow I ducked the question about what's in the big box. Semroc she knows well, but AC Supply doesn't sound like rockets, could be car parts. :) But I'm sure she knows, so more shoes will be forthcoming.

[motley16]

Just tell your women it is air conditioner parts...prementative maintenance honey. We need a strong ac unit :chuckle:

[pantherjon]

Mine arrived yesterday as well from AC Supply..Only thing is, someone at UPS used the box for a seat I think!:mad: Box got smashed ...so I have some smashed tubes in my Saturn V box and in the Space Eagle bag.:mad::mad:

BUT, there is silver lining in this cloud! Via e-mail communications with AC Supply they are filing a claim with UPS and sending out 2 new kits to me(this time in 2 boxes). :D

Hopefully, UPS won't use them as seats or stack someones weight set on these boxes!

[GregGleason]

Mine arrived yesterday as well from AC Supply..Only thing is, someone at UPS used the box for a seat I think!...



Yikes! Jon, did you have to send it back? If not, at least you also have replacement plastic parts, or at least display plastic parts.

Greg

[foose4string]

Yeah that doesn't look good, but I'm with Greg! I see more good than bad in this. You have spare parts now if you aren't required to return it. And heck, what does a replacement tube cost...like a dollar or two? Basically, you got two Saturns for the price of one ! Same thing with the Space Eagle.

[Doug Sams]

...someone at UPS used the box for a seat I think!:mad: Hence, the term Sat-on 5 :D

Doug

.

[wickball]

Mine arrived today in good shape but I will note two things:
1. There were no Handle with Care or Fragile stickers anywhere on the box
2. The main body tube is awfully thin, has me a little nervous

wick

[Ltvscout]

2. The main body tube is awfully thin, has me a little nervous

wick
BT-101 was always thin-walled for its diameter.

[wickball]

Thanks for the feedback, Scott.

wick

[pantherjon]

Yikes! Jon, did you have to send it back? If not, at least you also have replacement plastic parts, or at least display plastic parts.

Greg

I was told to hold on to the original packing material in case UPS wanted to contact me..Yeah, would have been nice if they had put a fragile or 'handle with care' sticker on the box..

A Sat-on 5!:chuckle: I resemble that remark!

According to tracking info the replacement kits are to arrive today!:) I will be at work, but they will undergo a close inspection when I get home..UPS these boxes are not seats or stepping stools!!!

[UCBadger]

UPS is not the only carrier to make rocket shipping boxes conform to smaller dimensions than originally intended (that's squished in other terms)! The box that contained my (really cool) Little Joe II from Semroc was received via USPS in a somewhat squashed condition two weeks ago (shipped out on the day before they left for NARAM). Of course it (slightly) affected the body tube. It will be OK, as I will use the creased end for the motor mount end which will be covered with the "corrugated" wrap.

[sandman]

With the release of the Estes Saturn V I have been getting requests for the waterslide decal for the Service Module wrap and it's location on my web site.

The 1/100th scale Service module wrap in right under the Saturn V decals.

Go to Classic Waterslide Decals then click on Estes classic decals.

Scroll down to the Saturn V and they are right under it in both silver metallic and chrome.

The 1/70th scale Service Module wrap is in the Scale Model Rocket decals and plansets page. Also available in silver metallic and chrome.

[tbzep]

Yeah, would have been nice if they had put a fragile or 'handle with care' sticker on the box..

You should never put "fragile" or "handle with care" on a box. That's like painting a bullseye on it! :eek:

[jeffyjeep]

As an Ebay rocket seller, I know that the ONLY way to ship securely is to double and sometimes triple-box the item and to never skimp on the packing material quantity OR quality.

[pantherjon]

Well, the 'replacement' kits arrived yesterday..I was at work, so when I got home at 1AM this morning I took a close look at the boxes. Perfectly straight lines, not a single dent or scuff mark.:eek: I almost fainted..These boxes look like they used 'white glove' service in handling them! Opened the big one to look at the nice clean straight pretty Saturn V box and then went to bed with Saturn V's launching in my dreams!:D

I am happy! AC Supply has officially earned the Pantherjon 5 Star Rating for customer support and service! :)

[jeffyjeep]

My kits are in "factory fresh" condition too!!

[wickball]

Scott, Have you had a chance to see one of these?
I have seen several other references here and TRF to the main body tube being too thin. Could there be a problem here?

wick

[Royatl]

Scott, Have you had a chance to see one of these?
I have seen several other references here and TRF to the main body tube being too thin. Could there be a problem here?

wick


NO. These are people who are used to current high power 4" tubes and haven't seen a BT-101 in the wild.

[Jerry Irvine]

BT-101 is about 0.021" wall. Mid-Power rocket tubes started out life with 040 and 050 walls. Current popular overweight tubes are 0625 wall.

021 is sufficient up to a mid-thrust G. 120G30

040 is sufficient to a 320H640 or a 1280J250 or a 2560K250 with a regressive moonburning trace.

Thicker tubes have no practical power limit.

Jerry

[Ltvscout]

Scott, Have you had a chance to see one of these?
I have seen several other references here and TRF to the main body tube being too thin. Could there be a problem here?

wick
I don't have one of these new ones but have many of the older Estes SV's which use the same tubes.

I agree with what Roy and Jerry stated above about the tubes.

[Doug Sams]

NO. These are people who are used to current high power 4" tubes and haven't seen a BT-101 in the wild.My thoughts exactly. The question is, will they learn the light weight side of things? Or will they end up with two layers of 6 carbon fiber wrapped around their (overbuilt) Saturn V's?

Doug

.

[Jerry Irvine]

My thoughts exactly. The question is, will they learn the light weight side of things? Or will they end up with two layers of 6 carbon fiber wrapped around their (overbuilt) Saturn V's?
Once you build to requirement, not rumor or hype or myth, you build a whole bunch lighter.

A USR typical kit is 040 wall tube and 2.25" diameter or 4" diameter and good to GHIJ.

Above that an 050 wall tube is good to anything but silly thrust or greatly increased power motors.

But then do you really need FG or CF? Nope. We have 080 wall paper tubes which are 50% more cost than 050 wall tubes that have never had their power or thrust limit exceeded.

http://v-serv.com/usr/motors/images/BobJonesJIinsert6in.jpg
Above that isn't it better to just put your steel fin can on your aluminum motor casing anyway?
You know, since it takes two guys, or equipment, to load the propellant grain(s)?

Be real, not silly.

Marketing is one thing but overkill is a term for a reason.

http://v-serv.com/usr/kits/sonic3100_parts.jpg
3 inch ID 080 wall tube proven beyond L3000.

http://v-serv.com/usr/kits/berlinetta_parts.jpg
3.9 inch ID 040 wall and 2.6 inch ID 050 wall tube good to J+.

http://v-serv.com/usr/kits/weightlofter.htm
2.25" OD 040 wall tube good for GHIJ with low thrust on the J end.

Technically each particular tube has a frontal force or altitude adjusted speed limit, not a power or thrust limit.

http://www.rocketmaterials.org/

http://www.rocketmaterials.org/datastore/tubes/Axial/2-6.jpg
USR 3" ID 080 wall tube.

http://www.rocketmaterials.org/datastore/tubes/Axial/
U.S. Rockets whitewall tubing

http://www.rocketmaterials.org/datastore/tubes/Axial/jerys2.jpg
That's pretty strong for a $60 rocket. 080 wall 3.16" OD

http://www.rocketmaterials.org/datastore/tubes/Axial/jall2w.jpg
That's pretty strong for a $40 rocket. 040 wall 2.25" OD

Tech Jerry

[LeeR]

Yikes! Jon, did you have to send it back? If not, at least you also have replacement plastic parts, or at least display plastic parts.

Greg

I'll bet Jon gets to keep the damaged shipment, if AC Supply did not say anything immediately about returning the box. Same thing happened to me a couple years ago with Tower Hobbies. They sent replacements immediately, and I kept the damaged kits. Basically all I had to do is replace a body tube. One was an Estes Cosmos Mariner. I worked the kink out of the vacuformed sheet as best I could, using a Monokote covering iron, and gave it to a neighbor's kid who was into rockets. I told him to try it when he was ready for a more advanced kit. Now I think he is just into cars and girls ...so maybe I should retrieve it.
:)

[tbzep]

I'll bet Jon gets to keep the damaged shipment, if AC Supply did not say anything immediately about returning the box. Same thing happened to me a couple years ago with Tower Hobbies. They sent replacements immediately, and I kept the damaged kits. Basically all I had to do is replace a body tube. One was an Estes Cosmos Mariner. I worked the kink out of the vacuformed sheet as best I could, using a Monokote covering iron, and gave it to a neighbor's kid who was into rockets. I told him to try it when he was ready for a more advanced kit. Now I think he is just into cars and girls ...so maybe I should retrieve it.
:)

AC Supply most likely won't bother with the return. They shipped me aReflector instead of the Payloader II that I ordered with my Saturn V, motors, ect. I asked that they give me an online shipping label to print out for returning it. They apologized and said to keep the Reflector and sent the correct rocket out the same day. I've had great dealings with them for school and personal rocketry for probably 10 years.

[sandman]

AC Supply most likely won't bother with the return. They shipped me aReflector instead of the Payloader II that I ordered with my Saturn V, motors, ect. I asked that they give me an online shipping label to print out for returning it. They apologized and said to keep the Reflector and sent the correct rocket out the same day. I've had great dealings with them for school and personal rocketry for probably 10 years.

Gee, I wish I was big enough to afford to do that. :(

[wickball]

Motor question for the forum:
I'm debating between an AT E15 or Estes D12.
E15 weight is 48 grams while D12 is 42 grams. Does this small difference warrant added nose weight? I would prefer not to add any weight if possible so I can fly on either.

wick

[Jerry Irvine]

Motor question for the forum:
I'm debating between an AT E15 or Estes D12.
E15 weight is 48 grams while D12 is 42 grams. Does this small difference warrant added nose weight? I would prefer not to add any weight if possible so I can fly on either.

wick
No.

[GregGleason]

Motor question for the forum:
I'm debating between an AT E15 or Estes D12.
E15 weight is 48 grams while D12 is 42 grams. Does this small difference warrant added nose weight? I would prefer not to add any weight if possible so I can fly on either.

wick

FWIW, my D12-3's that I weigh before flight are between 46 and 47 grams.

That being the case, I wouldn't sweat any extra nose weight.

Greg

[BEC]

This discussion of extra power is interesting....I'm thinking a Rocketarium motor retainer (already on hand) at the back, the motor block located for a 95mm-long motor, and a 25mm-long spacer made up so I can use Estes D12s as well as Aerotech Es and Fs. Ballast as needed so it's good with the F. Also add a baffle (which may help obviate the need for ballast) so as to not need massive amounts of wadding. Otherwise, stock. That will have to be a winter project, though.

I need to study how to put a tape "motor block" on the aft end of an Estes D12, which would obviate the need for any motor block in the BT50 stuffer tube. I know that info is around.

[Matt38]

Hey Sandman,

I checked your site and will be ordering a couple wraps but the site states for the K-36 and #2001 Saturn V models. The new release is #2157; is the SM the exact same size as the older models?

[wickball]

Thanks for the replies, I got the weight's off the the respective AT and Estes web sites.

wick

[Bill]

I need to study how to put a tape "motor block" on the aft end of an Estes D12, which would obviate the need for any motor block in the BT50 stuffer tube. I know that info is around.


That is easy. Just wrap 1/4" wide masking tape (aka quilting tape at Michael's, Hobby Lobby or JoAnn) tightly around the nozzle end of the motor until it is about the outside diameter of your motor tube.


Bill

[jeffyjeep]

The SV box has a "contains lead" warning (I'll be sure NOT to eat or drink the rocket,) but where's the lead?

[Rocket Doctor]

Probably in the ink on the box?

But, only eat the box if you have milk and some strawberries to go with it.

[GregGleason]

The SV box has a "contains lead" warning (I'll be sure NOT to eat or drink the rocket,) but where's the lead?

My guess is that it is either in the parachute ink or the decal ink (or both).

Greg

[GregGleason]

BTW, my Saturn V came today! WooHoo! :)

I liked the retro pic of Mr. Estes on the side.

Hmmm. Think I want to go with a 29mm upgrade and reinforce the inside of the external tubes with carbon fiber. I would need to cut my own CR's since the ID will change. But if it all works out, it should hold up to minor abuse better than the stock configuration.

Greg

[Jerry Irvine]

The Centuri Saturn V had a ST-16 tube host to accept 3x18mm. That's the way to go. You could interchange 3x18mm, 24mm, 29mm or even coffee can 38mm.

Jerry

http://v-serv.com/usr/images/38-120nozdn.640.jpg