Alternate Tube Technique?

[bikegod]

Since getting back into this hobby, I have read with great interest, and learned all types of methods to get that nice finish on my project.

Once again I came up with an idea that I would like to bounce off of the forum. Has anyone, or is it possible to use self adhesive label to cover tubes? I mean, inkjet printable clear or white, printed with my own design, and wrapped around the tube? Lots of the Estes E2X and RTF kits have tubes that are just wrapped in what amounts to be one giant decal.

Obviously there would be a small bit of weight added (maybe a little more than the paint and primer) and the fins would have to be glued down first, as well as the launch lug, but it seems doable.

I was wondering if anyone has taken this route in the past and how it worked. I see lots of kits for making decals (Testor's kit was in Wal-Mart). Fins would still have to be finished properly, but I am creating a small kit (from leftovers) for my daughter to build.

We are sort of at this weird stage where E2X isn't challenging enough, but level 1 needs more finesse than she currently has. She can glue fins, lugs and even install a chute. I would definitely want to supervise the engine mount. I am considering the Viking, Starchaser or HighFlyer, but spiral filling might get to her. If we do a decal, she can paint it on the computer and we can print it and apply.

Any thoughts?

[CPMcGraw]

Once again I came up with an idea that I would like to bounce off of the forum. Has anyone, or is it possible to use self adhesive label to cover tubes? I mean, inkjet printable clear or white, printed with my own design, and wrapped around the tube? ...wrapped in what amounts to be one giant decal.

Obviously there would be a small bit of weight added (maybe a little more than the paint and primer) and the fins would have to be glued down first, as well as the launch lug, but it seems doable.

BG,

I've used labels like this on fins, just to see if the finishing time can be reduced. It works well, and when you consider the reduction of some of the primer and filler weight, it roughly balances out.

I have a (modern) Estes Alpha III sitting off to the side that I want to finish in the original catalog pattern. A label is about the only way to do that.

For models with balsa fins, what you could do is mark the body wrap in the correct locations for the fins (make the outlines part of the printed image), then trim out those areas with an X-Acto knife before applying to the body tube. This requires getting the wrap positioned correctly, of course...

[Ltvscout]

Once again I came up with an idea that I would like to bounce off of the forum. Has anyone, or is it possible to use self adhesive label to cover tubes? I mean, inkjet printable clear or white, printed with my own design, and wrapped around the tube? Lots of the Estes E2X and RTF kits have tubes that are just wrapped in what amounts to be one giant decal.
I've not heard of that but I do know people use stuff like MonoKote and its many variants. That's that heat shrink material RC guys use on their planes.

[snaquin]

BG

Another covering you may consider is the adhesive backed MonoKote also known as "Trim Sheets". Hobby stores that specialize in model aircraft generally have this hanging on the pegboard by the iron on MonoKote stuff. Comes in 5"x36" sheets with plenty of colors and checkerboards and cuts easily with a sharp knife and metal straight edge:

http://www.monokote.com/trim.html

I have used this with pretty good success. I have pictures of rockets I finished using this method in these threads:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=726&highlight=monokote

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=632&highlight=monokote

And another couple of images below of things you can do with this stuff. The metallic colors are very nice :)

[bikegod]

I actually thought of using the tailfin guide as a starting point then using the length of the tube as my second (length) measurement. I figured I could scan the original plan (the tube marking guide) and alter it on the PC using Windows Paint or some other such software.

I haven't looked yet but do they make full sheet self adhesive labels? I have seen the mailing labels of various sizes but never looked for larger. I am actually pretty excited to try it. I know I won't be able to get cool metallics out of it, but there are so many things that can be done.

I actually picked up a Gemini DC today (even paid regular retail) because I am out of stuff to do. I need to fire off a D12 so I can use the engine casing to make some blocks for the Nu-B1ST. Finished the Mimi and HannahMonster finished her Gnome. I have absolutely no projects to work on (not counting the Gemini). Unfortunately the Gemini tubes have inconsistent spirals. One side tube is tight, the others (main and other side) are wider. Lots of filling to do.

I am kind of excited to find there is a shop nearby that claims to have a full selection of scratch building parts available. I am trying not to be too hopeful, but it would be nice to have someone nearby who might share my interest some. For now, Carl gets my ducats. Well at least my allowance on Payday. My wife is actually behind me on most of it since HannahMonster loves going out with me to launch. She loves to push the fire button.

[bikegod]

So Steve, is this stuff like contact paper? Believe it or not, I have wondered about using that as well.

Basic rundown on installation if you don't mind. Just peel and stick?

For my next project the MonoKote looks good. For HannahMonster's, the labels give her the ability to add Mickey or Goofy or the Princesses to her model.


The hobby store I just mentioned is a distributor of Monokote.

[snaquin]

Yes it is similar to contact paper and it's fairly thin. Thinner than the Estes self adhesive decals or most self adhesive label material I have seen.

For a body tube I don't like to cover too much at one time because it is easy to get an air bubble under it. I lay it in pieces but you do get small seams. Use a piece of metal angle from Home Depot and run a straight line down the tube to align it. I cut it to size before I apply it and to wrap a tube I allow about 1/8" to overlap. Wrap a sheet of paper around the tube first andmark it to see how long you will need to cut your MonoKote. Some guys use a little mist sprayer with a drop or two of dishwashing soap in the water to spray on the surface to help you move it around a little before you press it down and squeege the excess water out. For a larger area I don't peel all the backing off at once, just a little at a time and press the air bubbles out end to end to stick it down.

It's pretty cheap at $2.50 a sheet. I'd suggest you try to make a few stripes or rings with it first or maybe inset a small amount in the fin area to get used to the stuff. For fins I generally paint them to match the body tube and cut a fin pattern for the kit but reduce it by about 1/8" all around to create a small border and have the contrasting MonoKote color inset in the fin. With a little practice I think you'll like it. That metallic charcoal is really nice looking. The chrome is highly reflective and helps with high flights.

Our weather here on the Gulf Coast doesn't permit very many good paint days and I don't mind a few seams so I use it quite a bit.

[bikegod]

Thanks Steve,

I think I may be picking up a few sheets soon. Apparently Michaels carries something like it (though probably not the same quality). I don't mind experimenting on a few things. I've got the metal straight edges and all types of cutting stuff (roto blades, hot knife etc.). I may even spend a buck or two on some shelf contact paper if the pattern looks good.

I will definitely be experimenting with stuff this weekend. You should see the shopping list I have for Carl.

[bikegod]

Found this other stuff by Hangar 9 called Ultracote.

3 7/8" by 78" Their Chrome looks pretty good, and their Silver wasn't too bad either. A bit costlier (5.99) but I think there is more in the roll.

I'll give you an update on how well it works. I wish I hadn't bought two rolls of Chrome only. It seemed like a good idea at the time. I'll probably take one back and get another color.

[snaquin]

Found this other stuff by Hangar 9 called Ultracote.

3 7/8" by 78" Their Chrome looks pretty good, and their Silver wasn't too bad either. A bit costlier (5.99) but I think there is more in the roll.

I'll give you an update on how well it works. I wish I hadn't bought two rolls of Chrome only. It seemed like a good idea at the time. I'll probably take one back and get another color.

Good luck with it. Let us know how it works out for you.

[bikegod]

99% of my problems are just not knowing how to work with stuff.

I tried covering a fin, and it looked ok, but I probably should have filled the grain more even after sanding. I chose to use their Chrome which of course shows up every little imperfection. But, overall, it looked pretty good. The Gemini DC uses TTW mounting so I thought that I would have glue on Fin to Motor mount.

Next I covered the main body tube and carefully slice out the fin slots and the ejection holes.

Now the problems. I glued the covered fin to the body, or tried to, and first the fin wouldn't fit in the slot (too tight) and then wouldn't fit all the way inside so the fin wasn't flush with the body tube. After some trimming, I got it fitting good so put some glue on and inserted it.

What glue do you think sticks to this coating? I surely couldn't tell you, at least not at 2:30 in the morning. And what would you use to make fillets with between two chrome parts? Another question that I came up with in the wee hours of the morning.

On top of all that, I forgot that the side tubes need to be glued to the main body.

I chose not to cover the other fins before gluing and will use a pattern and cut to fit with a slight overlap covering the fillets that I ended up making out of plastic cement. White glue is used for the balsa to paper connection.

Since I haven't covered the side tubes yet, I think I will leave bare paper where the glue will go, glue with plastic cement, then cover the side tubes after they are in place.

Either way, I totally learned what not to do. I shouldn't have started with Chrome (I bought two rolls and one is going back but I will be a good customer and take an exchange for another color). Chrome should be used by those more familiar with the product, and definitely on very smooth surfaces. It scratches easily, and any glue that gets away from you could ruin the finish. White glue can be scratched/rubbed off, but plastic cement will leave a spot that won't come out. On hindsight, I should have assembled the rocket, coated it with clear (or a bunch more sanding on the fins and filled the spirals) and layed the Kote down in pieces after everything was dry.

One last thing, I did notice that the main body tube of this particular kit (and one side tube) are very poor quality. The spirals are pretty wide (even compared to other Estes kits). I noticed a bit more flexibility, even softness of tube as I wrapped it. It was almost like the tube was damp. I may table this project until I contact Estes and see if they might consider replacing the tubes with a tighter spiral or better quality tube. I should have taken it back before I started doing anything with it, but more experience on my part would have stopped me from even taking the kit off the shelf in the first place.

I'll figure it out.

In a nutshell, the UltraKote brand did work exactly as the MonoKote was described, cut well, and was easy to pick up off the balsa and reposition, but stuck quick after one rub on the body tube. I will use it for insignia and decoration, but covering body tubes should be taken on after some practice. Thankfully I had at least some guidance before attempting, or this would have been a total loss.

[snaquin]

Now the problems. I glued the covered fin to the body, or tried to, and first the fin wouldn't fit in the slot (too tight) and then wouldn't fit all the way inside so the fin wasn't flush with the body tube. After some trimming, I got it fitting good so put some glue on and inserted it.

What glue do you think sticks to this coating? I surely couldn't tell you, at least not at 2:30 in the morning. And what would you use to make fillets with between two chrome parts? Another question that I came up with in the wee hours of the morning.

On top of all that, I forgot that the side tubes need to be glued to the main body.

I chose not to cover the other fins before gluing and will use a pattern and cut to fit with a slight overlap covering the fillets that I ended up making out of plastic cement.

BG

I don't think you will find an adhesive that will adhere well to the slick surface of the MonoKote and I have never tried to fillet over it for that reason. I have never tried to cover the fins first and then attach them to the rocket.

If you notice in the images I posted I used a black color base coat on a completed rocket and cut the MonoKote just slightly smaller on all sides so it sits centered inside the fin area and that leaves a small black border all around the colored MonoKote. On the ARG SR1720 prototype rocket in one of the links I only painted the fins and the nose cone, and then I covered the rest of the (unpainted) airframe & payload section in MonoKote. I cut small strips of black and put those between the fins. As far as seams look at the payload section and you can see a small horizontal seam on the silver if you look close:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1847

I would practice with it. Don't worry if your first attempt wasn't perfect, I wouldn't expect it to be :)

Cut a few strips 1/4" wide or 1/2" wide and make bands for some of your other rockets. Cover a payload section in chrome or black with chrome bands or try a vertical stripe. Just like I ruin waterslide decals every now and then, I get an air bubble or misalign some of this stuff too ;)

For the most part I really like using it though .....

[bikegod]

Luckily, I only did the one fin. I glued the other fins with white glue on the wood to paper connections, and used plastic cement on the wood to monokote connection. Seems to be holding tight. I came back around and cut from the fin pattern plus 1/8" to cover glue/fillet.

Looks really good with the exception of the bad spirals (now barely noticeable) and the small bubbles from the unfinished fins. I actually used a permanent marker to "paint" the exposed edges of the fins blue.

I covered the side tubes ahead of time instead of gluing them down first then covering them. I glued the exhaust channels with white, then used plastic cement to connect them to the main tube. That was this morning, and tonite when I got home they seemed really solid. I pulled on them and felt no give. I might take some 1/4" strips and "fillet" the side tubes to the main body, just for assurances. The seams that I have created so far are barely noticeable. Starting to like the stuff. Still shouldn't have started with Chrome, but in for a penny.

On a side note, I got my big package from Carl today. The quality of the parts is outstanding! I made a couple of weird choices that I don't remember why I wanted it, and I wish I had added the X-21 to it. Bought a nose cone and body tube (that don't go together) and I can't remember what I had in mind. Obviously I need them for something, so I just started another order with other things I think I might need, and the X-21. After Sunday's outing, I have more than a few repairs to make.

Oh, and then there was the free kit. Wasn't really interested in it since it is a Skill 1, and a simple rocket. But after Sunday and seeing the kit today, I am fairly excited to build it with HannahMonster. Skill 1 with Semroc is more challenging than Skill 1 Estes, and the parts are better (IMHO). I hope this doesn't come out sounding wrong. I mean this with the greatest respect. I might just have to try a few more of his kits. I have been sort of jaded about kits lately since all that has been available to me comes from Michael's.

Thanks Carl!


Now, what was I going to do with this nosecone....