Spray Can Primer Question

[GregGleason]

Does anyone have a spray can primer that they can say, "This is THE stuff to use"?

Otherwise, I am just going to get some Rustoleum primer.

Opinions welcome!

Greg

[tbzep]

Does anyone have a spray can primer that they can say, "This is THE stuff to use"?

Otherwise, I am just going to get some Rustoleum primer.

Opinions welcome!

Greg

Any of the lacquer primers. I use Plasti-cote and Duplicolor lacquer primers. Both are high solids, so they fill a little better than plain jane primers.

[jetlag]

What Tim said...
Recently (here somewhere), I was told the Plasti-coat was better than the Dupli-color. Since I have 3 cans of the DC, I'll use those up first, then try the PC.
High Solids=GOOD!

Allen

[GregGleason]

Thanks Tim/Allen (Home Improvement? :D ) for the suggestions. I'll give it a go.

Greg

[tbzep]

BTW, I'm not knocking other primers. Lacquer primers just work better for me because they dry very fast and don't clog sandpaper when dry sanding. Other primers take longer to dry and many will clog sandpaper when dry sanding.

When I mention fast drying, I'm talking 10-15 minutes to start sanding with regular lacquer primer and 30-45 minutes with high solids primers like DC and PC. If the weather/temperature is right, I can start sanding the high solids stuff within 15-20 minutes.

[ghrocketman]

The best "spray can" primer I have used is the Dupli-Color Automotive Lacquer based primer that is available at any Auto Zone or O'Reilly Auto Parts store. Have not tried the Plasti-Kote stuff though.
I will say that I use DuPont Lacquer Auto Primer out of a spray gun or airbrush much more often than any "spray bomb" as it is much better. Pactra Prep (Long out of production) is even better but is about as easy to find as original cans of Pactra Aero Gloss Royal Purple (next to impossible).

Never use ANY enamel-based "primers"; NONE I have ever tried are ANY good at all for sanding/filling; this includes all Krylon and Rust oleum primers NOT specifically labeled LACQUER.

[Doug Sams]

Otherwise, I am just going to get some Rustoleum primer.Make sure you DO NOT GET Rustoleum's Bare Metal Primer - this is not fast drying. It's basically flat white paint, and you need to wait around a week before you can sand it. It's intended for you to shoot over it within an hour of application. That may be fine for lawn furniture, where you're not trying to get a smooth, shiny surface. But it's not well suited for models :)

Doug

.

[Doug Sams]

Otherwise, I am just going to get some Rustoleum primer.I get the RustOleum "automotive" primer at WalMart, in the paint section. This is the fast drying, lacquer-based stuff Tim is talking about.

I also wander over to the automotive section at WalMart and pick up the some of the specialty automotive primers from RustOleum, which include the high solids stuff. This is fast drying, too. But only the bigger WalMarts have a separate automotive paint section.

Doug

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[jetlag]

Agree with Doug, but not just the primer. I used gloss black Rustoleum Rust inhibitor spray and it was terrible. Looks good out the can, but come back after a while and you'll see tiny bubbles all over the finish (on an Estes Reflector). :mad:
Had to wetsand it all off and use black lacquer like I should have in the first place.
I had it, used it (too lazy to go get the right stuff) and paid dearly for my laziness!

Allen

[Doug Sams]

Otherwise, I am just going to get some Rustoleum primer.One thing I've noticed with RustOleum is that their Painter's Touch brand fast-drying (automotive) primers aren't as sanding-friendly as their premium (Stops Rust) brands. Seems like they clog the paper more.

It may be humidity related. That is, it may not be a problem in some parts of the country, but I suspect the humidity here (North Texas) is a factor in how it cures which in turn affects how it sands.

Anyway, I spend the extra buck or so and get the premium stuff.

Doug

.

[GregGleason]

On Platicote's website, there are primers galore:

* Etching Primer
* Flexible Spot Filler & Primer
* Paint & Primer Sealer
* Plastic Primer
* Sandable Primer
* Spot Filler & Primer
* Zinc Rich Primer

I take it is the Sandable Primer (http://www.plastikote.com/products/Primer/Sandable-Primer.html) that I want, correct? Also, is it lacquer?


Here's a snip from the MSDS:

...Wt.%.|.Chemical.Name
35.-.40.|.Acetone
10.-.15.|.Propane
.5.-.10.|.Butane
.5.-.10.|.Talc.(Mg3H2(SiO3)4)
.5.-.10.|.Xylenes.(o-,.m-,.p-.isomers)
.1.-..5.|.Titanium.dioxide

Greg

[foose4string]

On Platicote's website, there are primers galore:

* Etching Primer
* Flexible Spot Filler & Primer
* Paint & Primer Sealer
* Plastic Primer
* Sandable Primer
* Spot Filler & Primer
* Zinc Rich Primer

I take it is the Sandable Primer (http://www.plastikote.com/products/Primer/Sandable-Primer.html) that I want, correct? Also, is it lacquer?


Here's a snip from the MSDS:

Wt % | Chemical Name
35 - 40 | Acetone
10 - 15 | Propane
5 - 10 | Butane
5 - 10 | Talc (Mg3H2(SiO3)4)
5 - 10 | Xylenes (o-, m-, p- isomers)
1 - 5 | Titanium dioxide

Greg

You want the Spot Filler and Primer- #466
I found the regular sandable Plasti-kote primer at Tractor Supply...they carry the Plasti-kote brand, but the 466 Filler Primer is not a stock item for them. I asked two managers at two different locations if they could order it in, but I was told they are not allowed that SKU # through their inventory channels. Shame, since TS would be very convenient for me since both locations are close by.

[Doug Sams]

On Platicote's website, there are primers galore:

* Etching Primer
* Flexible Spot Filler & Primer
* Paint & Primer Sealer
* Plastic Primer
* Sandable Primer
* Spot Filler & Primer
* Zinc Rich Primer

I take it is the Sandable Primer (http://www.plastikote.com/products/Primer/Sandable-Primer.html) that I want, correct? Also, is it lacquer?
I agree with foose, you want the spot filler/primer, if you can get it. After that, the sandable primer.

The plastic primer is interesting.

I'm curious what the fliexible primer is. I wonder if it's flexible in its application, or if it's physically pliable as needed on an automtive bumper for example.

Doug

.

[foose4string]

I agree with foose, you want the spot filler/primer, if you can get it. After that, the sandable primer.

The plastic primer is interesting.

I'm curious what the fliexible primer is. I wonder if it's flexible in its application, or if it's physically pliable as needed on an automtive bumper for example.

Doug

.

From the PK website:


Flexible Spot Filler & Primer

* 'High build' primer with excellent adhesion for semi-rigid and flexible plastics
* All the same characteristics of SPOT FILLER with the addition of being flexible
* Preparation is easy because no excessive sanding or scraping is required
* Successive applications build up quickly to the desired level

[Doug Sams]

Here's a snip from the [sandable primer] MSDS:

Wt % | Chemical Name
35 - 40 | Acetone
10 - 15 | Propane
5 - 10 | Butane
5 - 10 | Talc (Mg3H2(SiO3)4)
5 - 10 | Xylenes (o-, m-, p- isomers)
1 - 5 | Titanium dioxide Here's what's listed on RustOleum's Stops Rust automotive primer:
Liquefied Petroleum Gas 30%
Xylene 25
Magnesium Silicate 20
Toluene 15
Ethylbenzene 10
Titanium Dioxide 5
Zinc Phosphate 5
Basic Zinc Molybdate 5

We need GH to chime in here - he can address the chemical content tradeoffs better than I. But you see more Magnesium Silicate (Talc) in the RustOleum implying a higher solids content, I think.

In both cases, you see lots of hot solvents (aromatics?) - acetone, xylene, toluene, ethylbenzene. These evaporate quickly thus giving these primers their fast-drying feature.

We tend to call fast-drying paints lacquers because lacquers dry fast, but I think that's a morph of the term - I don't think there's any lacquer in these primers. Nevertheless, that's the term I use.

Doug

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[Doug Sams]

* 'High build' primer with excellent adhesion for semi-rigid and flexible plastics
* All the same characteristics of SPOT FILLER with the addition of being flexibleAsk and ye shall receive :D

Thanks, Craig.

Doug

.

[ghrocketman]

Typically those primers loaded heavy with hot Aromatic solvents (Toluene, Xylene, Acetone, Ethyl Acetate, MEK, MIBK) capable of softening plastics if not careful are called "Lacquer based" and those with slow drying Aliphatic solvents that cannot be recoated anytime are called "Enamel" primers.
The higher the MgSi (Talc) content, the better they tend to fill.

Zinc Molybdate would give the primer a dark color (Is this a dark grey "hot rod black" primer ?).
Titanium Dioxide is straight white pigment that was first used years ago as a safe replacement for white lead.
Have no clue why Zinc Phosphate is in there.

As far as the percentages of the Aromatic Solvents, the higher the Acetone content and the lower the Toluene content the faster it will dry due to the evaporation points of the solvents.
Ethylbenzene (next slowest), Xylene, MEK and MIBK (next fastest) are all in between Toluene and Acetone as far as evaporarion rates.

[GregGleason]

Lot's of good information here, so thanks to all the contributors.

This has become a real "primer" on primer. :)

Greg

[Royatl]

Plastikote Spot Filler and Primer. Grey. The Red Oxide I have found tends to clog within the first use.

I've tried Duplicolor's product and it will do, better than any other, but Plastikote is the way to go.

My current finishing regimen:

Shoot one coat of SF&P.
lightly sand off the roughness.
Apply watered-down Elmer's Carpenters Wood Filler (or Fill'n'Finish if you've got some), to fill in the deepest valleys, dry, sand lightly.
Shoot successive coats of SF&P, sanding lightly between each one, until satisfied. Use a strong light and look along the surfaces toward the light to see remaining imperfections.

You *can* skip the wood filler step, and just use the SF&P. I just find it accellerates the process, and doing it AFTER the first coat of SF&P removes the threat of warping fins and such.

[LeeR]

My favorite primer is Duplicolor. On a summer day in dry Colorado, you can be sanding almost immediately!

I used to get it in the Automotive Dept. at Walmart, but our stores seemed to have dropped paints in Automotive. Seems they now just carry the typical/standard brands of paints like Krylon and Rustoleum in their Paint/Hardware Dept Looks like I'll have to go to the automotive supply shops now.

[blackshire]

Has anyone here had good luck with Valspar primer (sanding it or just as a base coat)? The reason I ask is because Valspar (along with Krylon and Rustoleum) are the most common spray paints in my area.

[ghrocketman]

The only Valspar primer I have is JUNK.
Note this is their BASIC (non automotive) primer.
I bought a couple of cans for a buck each on special and quickly found that they were enamel-base not lacquer which means they will take forever to completely dry and NOT sand worth a bucket of warm saliva.

I do not know if Valspar makes an "automotive" type sandable primer.
All I know is their "basic" hardware store primer is hideous.

[Slick36]

I've been considering using primer on my new Estes Saturn V build, but the wrap-arounds are styrene. I believe laquer based primers might mess up the plastic. Am I correct?

[ghrocketman]

Lacquer based primers should not mess up the wraps providing you use them in thin coats with proper drying in between.
Do NOT lay it on thick each coat.
DOPE on the other hand is much hotter than even lacquer and should never be used on styrene.

[GregGleason]

Here is the composition of the Rustoleum automotive primer (http://rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=37&sid=2081830) according to the MSDS:


.Chemical.....................|...%.Wt
.Liquefied.Petroleum.Gas......|.....30
.Xylene.......................|.....25
.Magnesium.Silicate...........|.....20
.Toluene......................|.....15
.Ethylbenzene.................|.....10
.Titanium.Dioxide.............|......5
.Zinc.Phosphate...............|......5
.Basic.Zinc.Molybdate.........|......5


The Magnesium Silicate (talc) is at 20%, so theoretically, at least, it should be worth trying as a high-solids primer. Has anyone used it with success?

Greg

[ghrocketman]

I have used the Rust Oleum Auto primer you reference above.
It is a "mild" lacquer with a moderate drying time as it has no Acetone in the mix.
Expect a significantly longer than average lacquer drying time, but much faster than enamel.
Sands easily once dry.

[GregGleason]

I have used the Rust Oleum Auto primer you reference above.
It is a "mild" lacquer with a moderate drying time as it has no Acetone in the mix.
Expect a significantly longer than average lacquer drying time, butmuch faster than enamel.
Sands easily once dry.

Thanks GH for your input.

Greg

[ghrocketman]

Just make sure if anyone purchases Rust Oleum primer, you get the AUTOMOTIVE version ONLY.
The stuff they sell that is non-automotive is NOT a decent sanding primer; it is more of a base SEALER for the topcoat to be appied onto and will do nothing but clog paper while providing only a MINIMUM of any filling. An added negative bonus of the non-automotive stuff is it is enamel based, which takes forever to dry to boot.

[foose4string]

I do not know if Valspar makes an "automotive" type sandable primer.
All I know is their "basic" hardware store primer is hideous.

Plasti-kote is a Valspar company. P-K seems to focus on the automotive side of things whereas Valspar concentrate on the general home improvement products.

[blackshire]

Thank you, foose4string, ghrocketman, and GregGleason! A good "paint formulation sticky" could rate the drying time and "sandability" versus the percentages of petroleum distillates and volatiles (such as acetone and ethylbenzene) versus the solids content. This would enable model rocketeers to select primers and paints based on their chemical constituents instead of by brand, so that those living in areas where only "no-name brands" are available could select good primers and paints with confidence. It would also be helpful to YORF members in other countries where different paint brands may be standard offerings.

[blackshire]

I also wanted to comment on ghrocketman's advice that lacquer-based primers are okay to use on styrene (even the thin vacu-formed styrene corrugated wraps on the Saturn V model) as long as one applies only thin, light coats and allows them to dry before sanding them and applying more coats.

I have long suspected that this is the case, but that Centuri and Estes decided to "err on the side of caution" and insist that *only* enamel or acrylic paints be used on plastic parts because young and/or inexperienced modelers might lay on too-thick coats of lacquer-based primer that would melt or "craze" the surfaces of plastic parts.

[ghrocketman]

Blackshire's supposition is correct; Estes and Centuri did decide to error on the side of caution telling those to never use Lacquer based products on plastics at all due to the fact that most beginners apply paint in a rather "ham fisted" heavy manner instead of several light coats.
Lacquer primer will actually bite into the plastic for the first light coat.
It is EXTREMELY important that subsequent coats are ONLY applied after the last has COMPLETELY dried, or one risks warping/crazing the plastic.
Used PROPERLY, Lacquers can be used on plastics.
That said, NEVER use Butyrate Dope on plastics. Butyrate Dope is a VERY HOT version of Lacquer and WILL craze most plastics in a real hurry. The exception to this is that back when Pactra Prep Primer was available, one could prime plastics with Pactra Prep then topcoat it with any Aero Gloss Color Dope without crazing. That was REALLY good stuff; sadly, the last of it was produced about 15 years ago and I'm down to about 3 pints.
Suffice it to say it ONLY gets used when absolutely needed.

[Bill]

Thank you, foose4string, ghrocketman, and GregGleason! A good "paint formulation sticky" could rate the drying time and "sandability" versus the percentages of petroleum distillates and volatiles (such as acetone and ethylbenzene) versus the solids content. This would enable model rocketeers to select primers and paints based on their chemical constituents instead of by brand, so that those living in areas where only "no-name brands" are available could select good primers and paints with confidence. It would also be helpful to YORF members in other countries where different paint brands may be standard offerings.


I second that.

I did some painting for the first time in a long time back in July helping to get a kit ready for market. I had to paint four models in a short amount of time to be ready at NARAM.

The paint scheme was somewhat complicated in four colors. One model already had a base coat of Rustoleum enamel, so I was forced to use compatible enamel paints on it. I decided to try new formula Krylon on the other three thinking that a lacquer would dry faster.

All of the needed colors were available in Krylon, but Rustoleum did not come in the non-metallic gold color I was wanting - I had to settle for a Valspar enamel from Michaels.

While looking, I spent a lot of time in several stores reading the ingredient list of spray cans trying to figure out whether the formulation was an enamel or a lacquer for those brands which did not explicitly specify. Information such as the preesence of a particular chemical means it's a lacquer would have been very helpful in that process.


Bill

[Bill]

Used PROPERLY, Lacquers can be used on plastics.
That said, NEVER use Butyrate Dope on plastics. Butyrate Dope is a VERY HOT version of Lacquer and WILL craze most plastics in a real hurry. The exception to this is that back when Pactra Prep Primer was available, one could prime plastics with Pactra Prep then topcoat it with any Aero Gloss Color Dope without crazing. That was REALLY good stuff; sadly, the last of it was produced about 15 years ago and I'm down to about 3 pints.
Suffice it to say it ONLY gets used when absolutely needed.


That stuff sounds very useful. Any chance we can figure out what goes into it so that we can mix our own?


Bill

[ghrocketman]

The only thing I know about Pactra Prep for sure is that it is a high-solids dope and enamel compatible primer that used straight MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) as the thinner.
Pactra used to sell a special thinner that they said MUST be used to thin Pactra Prep.
It was straight MEK repackaged at 4 times the cost MEK should be.
I think I have an old can somewhere.
A gallon of MEK at the hardware store was the same cost as a quart of Pactra Prep Thinner at the hobby shop.
MEK based products will etch themselves into styrene plastics, therefore it had to be applied in LIGHT coats to typical plastic nose cones with COMPLETE drying between coats. A couple of coats of that, then one could topcoat with Aero Gloss dope, which was NOT possible over plastics with any other primer I know of other than two-part epoxies.

The only bad thing about this stuff is the MEK thinner; MEK is one of few common organic solvents that I absolutely hate the smell of with a passion. The stuff is so good, I deal with the reek.

I tend to suspect the filler in the Pactra Prep is the same typical stuff in Aero Gloss Balsa Fillercoat; MgSi (Magnesium Silicate), or commonly known as Talcum Powder. sanded esxactly the same, just dried much slower than Dope due to the MEK solvent instead of the typical Dope Thinner solvent mixture of Toluene, Acetone, MIBK (Methyl Iso-Butyl Ketone), MEK and Ethyl Acetate.

Incidentally, for those that want to know, homebrew Balsa Fillercoat is easy to make. Take equal amounts by VOLUME of Clear Butyrate Dope (any brand- Sig, Brodak, Aero Gloss) and UNSCENTED Talcum Powder. It is the same stuff, and nobody produces it anymore.

[scigs30]

I can honestly say I have tried many primers and keep coming back to PlastiKote sandable primer. One of my recent builds I ran out of primer so I had to buy Rustoleum Automotive Primer from Home Depot. This stuff shot out nice and smooth when compared to Plastikote. Plastikote comes out a little bumpy and you have to sand it smooth. The Rustoleum had no filling properties what so ever, it was basically gray paint, almost like the Testors Gray primer. I waited one hour to sand, and this stuff did not sand very well. I waited a few more hours and still did not sand very well. The next day it sanded much better, I should have read the can since it says "wet sand". The Plastikote is ready to dry sand in 1 hour and sands smooth and has filling properties. I will keep a couple cans of Rustoleum primer because it will work great if I don't need filling properties or don't want to hide details. I have seen the Rustoleum sandable and spot filler primer at Wal Mart, but have not tried this stuff yet.

[soopirV]

I'm surprised no one mentioned either Bin or Kilz- I've been using these for awhile. They sand well, build up quickly and don't take long to dry. The reason I bring it up is not to confound the issue but to see if there's a reason no one is recommending them? I haven't used any styrene parts on my models, and don't pay a lot of attention to the label, so I don't know if it's laquer or enamel (I'm guessing the former since it dries in <30 min). The only negative I have is that it comes out in a blast from the rattle can, so be ready for that, and keep the spray moving. Interested in others' experiences!

[Doug Sams]

I'm surprised no one mentioned either Bin or Kilz- I've been using these for awhile. They sand well, build up quickly and don't take long to dry. The reason I bring it up is not to confound the issue but to see if there's a reason no one is recommending them? I haven't used any styrene parts on my models, and don't pay a lot of attention to the label, so I don't know if it's laquer or enamel (I'm guessing the former since it dries in <30 min). The only negative I have is that it comes out in a blast from the rattle can, so be ready for that, and keep the spray moving. Interested in others' experiences!Kilz is oil based, so it really doesn't dry all that fast - not nearly as fast as rattle can automotive primer.

I love Zinsser. But I use the brush on. The rattle can comes out too dang fast. And, one 10 dollar quart of brush on will last me as long as 5 or more rattle cans.

The Zinsser is available as a shellac - it's alcohol based. So it dries fairly fast if you put it on thin. When I'm finishing a rocket, I usually start with a coat of this first, then build up from there, putting the FnF over top of it, then following up with rattle can primer. Using rattle can over the top helps fill in the inherent brush strokes of the Zinsser thereby keeping the sanding easier.

The other thing I like about the brush on is that I can lay it on thick where needed without getting excess amounts in the surrounding area.

Doug

.

[Royatl]

I'm surprised no one mentioned either Bin or Kilz- I've been using these for awhile. They sand well, build up quickly and don't take long to dry. The reason I bring it up is not to confound the issue but to see if there's a reason no one is recommending them?


Kilz sucked for me. Days to completely dry, horrible smell while drying, and heavy to boot. But it is thick, and fills fast, if only it dried fast. It seems to me like an enamel, due to the oil-based paint smell.

[GregGleason]

Kilz sucked for me. Days to completely dry, horrible smell while drying, and heavy to boot. But it is thick, and fills fast, if only it dried fast. It seems to me like an enamel, due to the oil-based paint smell.

It's funny that you should mention that. This whole thread was based on the lack of a "rocket friendly" primer, which most recently was my disappointment in the performance of Kilz. As you said, it's thick and heavy and also leaves brush strokes like you wouldn't believe.

For a "rocket friendly" primer, I am planning on looking into the aforementioned Duplicolor or Plasti-cote primers.

Greg

[PaulK]

I've been using 3M Bondo primer recently, it goes on a little thin, but dries very fast, and sands absolutely great. Here's the ingredients from the msds:

ACETONE 30 - 60%
PROPANE 10 - 30%
TALC 7 - 13%
BUTANE 7 - 13%
ISOBUTYL ACETATE 3 - 7%
XYLENE 3 - 7%
ACRYLIC POLYMER Trade Secret 1 - 5%
TOLUENE 1 - 5%
ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL 1.5%
ETHYLBENZENE 1.0 - 1.5%
TITANIUM DIOXID 0.5 - 1.5%
POLYETHYLENE 0 - 1%

[GregGleason]

I got the following at AutoZone:

http://www.duplicolor.com/images/big/big_perfectMatch.jpg

It's Dupli-color BPR0031.

Is this the stuff I want?

Greg

[o1d_dude]

I might have to try this Dupli-color primer.

Lately I've been less than satisfied with the RustOLeum "stops rust" primer. Based on the ingredients and the recoat any time directions, it's the lacquer primer we've been talking about but it clogs the sandpaper unless I wait a couple of days. What's up with that?

Same results with the RustOLeum high solids primer from the automotive section at WallyWorld. Fills nice but seems to take a while for it to REALLY set.

[Royatl]

I got the following at AutoZone:
It's Dupli-color BPR0031.

Is this the stuff I want?

Greg

No, if you're going with Dupli-Color (it is the easiest to find), this is the one you want:

http://www.duplicolor.com/products/fillerPrimer/

http://www.duplicolor.com/images/big/big_primer_filler.jpg

But what you really want is:

http://www.plastikote.com/products/Primer/Spot-Filler-and-Primer.html

http://www.plastikote.com/images/products/Spot-Filler-and-Primer.jpg

...though get the grey, not the red oxide (I've had red oxide cans clog within the first few minutes). Also, the can may look different anyway, as they go through old stock. CarQuest seems to be the main dealer around Atlanta. YMMV.

[GregGleason]

No, if you're going with Dupli-Color (it is the easiest to find), this is the one you want:

http://www.duplicolor.com/products/fillerPrimer/

http://www.duplicolor.com/images/big/big_primer_filler.jpg

...



Roy,

I checked out the formulations by looking at their respective MSDSs, looking at the differences via text comparison software and found that the Dupli-Color primers (BPR0031 and FP101) are very similar. As it turns out, the BPR0031 is a little "hotter" (to use GH's words) with the Acetone content at 31% v the 27% in the FP101. The product in FP101 has slightly greater density, though.

Here is the breakdown of BPR0031:

..%.Wt.|.Ingredient
....31.|.Acetone.
....14.|.Methyl.Ethyl.Ketone.ACGIH.TLV.
....11.|.Propane.ACGIH.TLV.
....11.|.Butane.
.....7.|.Ethyl.3-Ethoxypropionate.ACGIH.TLV.
.....6.|.Talc.
.....4.|.Titanium.Dioxide.
.....2.|.Toluene.
.....2.|.Calcium.Carbonate.
.....1.|.2-Propanol.ACGIH.TLV.
.....1.|.2-Methyl-1-propanol.ACGIH.TLV.


Greg

[Royatl]

Roy,

I checked out the formulations by looking at their respective MSDSs, looking at the differences via text comparison software and found that the Dupli-Color primers (BPR0031 and FP101) are very similar. As it turns out, the BPR0031 is a little "hotter" (to use GH's words) with the Acetone content at 31% v the 27% in the FP101. The product in FP101 has slightly greater density, though.

Ok, so it looks like the same stuff repackaged for that "Perfect Match" line. Since it is in a smaller can I'll bet it is more expensive per ounce than the 031.

I still prefer the PlastiKote though! :)

[GregGleason]

Ok, so it looks like the same stuff repackaged for that "Perfect Match" line. Since it is in a smaller can I'll bet it is more expensive per ounce than the 031.

I still prefer the PlastiKote though! :)

Roger that. While it looks like both the Plasti-Kote and Dupli-Color are good spray primers for rockets, it looks like the Plasti-Kote has the better formulation of the two.

Greg

[o1d_dude]

According to the PlastiKote website, in Central Cali, it's the CarQuest auto parts stores that carry the PlastiKote primers.

As it turns out, there are several such dealers within a small radius of my home. SCORE!

[Doug Sams]

I might have to try this Dupli-color primer.

Lately I've been less than satisfied with the RustOLeum "stops rust" primer. Based on the ingredients and the recoat any time directions, it's the lacquer primer we've been talking about but it clogs the sandpaper unless I wait a couple of days. What's up with that?

Same results with the RustOLeum high solids primer from the automotive section at WallyWorld. Fills nice but seems to take a while for it to REALLY set.I suspect that, when it comes to the high-solids primers, there may be a trade off between solids content and drying time. That is, they may have to play around with the solvents mix in order to carry the added solids with the result that it takes longer to dry.

Another consideration, which may be the biggest factor, is the relative humidity level when you're shooting. I can prime a rocket and leave it in the garage, and it may still clog the paper a week later. Converesly, if I shoot it and hang it up to cure in the air conditioned house, it sands great the next day. This, BTW, is how I usually do it, if I'm in a hurry :)

Doug

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[o1d_dude]

Welp, I visited the nearest CarQuest today and picked up a can of the Plasti-Kote Spot Filler & Primer. $9.23 for one can including the tax. YIKES!

Not sure about the humidity thing seeing as how here in the Central Valley of the PRC, the humidity usually hovers between 30 and 40 percent. The only time it gets more humid is during the winter months and the Valley turns green. There's a reason why they it the "Golden State" that has nothing to do with the Gold Rush of 1849.

Anyway, I plan to give the new can of the "Right Stuff" a test tomorrow and we'll see how it goes.

BTW, I am an honorary Texan. One of my far-back relatives is listed on the plaque commemorating those who fell defending the Alamo...and he was from New York City. Altogether now: "NEW YORK CITY?!?"

[LeeR]

Welp, I visited the nearest CarQuest today and picked up a can of the Plasti-Kote Spot Filler & Primer. $9.23 for one can including the tax. YIKES!



At that price, it is no wonder they call it "spot" filler and primer. You can only afford to fill and prime spots with it ...

[scigs30]

The Plastikote Sandable primer is cheaper and works real well.

[Royatl]

Welp, I visited the nearest CarQuest today and picked up a can of the Plasti-Kote Spot Filler & Primer. $9.23 for one can including the tax. YIKES!



Yea, that was the one big drawback to CarQuest! However, they have the stuff, all the time. The other place around me that had it (a backwoods auto parts store) has it for $6 but only stocks one can at a time, and the guy looked at me real funny when I asked if I could special order some.

I stopped at an O'Reilly's Auto Parts store today for something else, and found both the Dupli-Color primers. The new "Perfect Match" one was 8oz for $6.95 while the old big can was 11oz for $3.95!

[dtomko]

I tried for the first time Rust-Oleum Painter's Touch Ultra Cover 2X Coverage Primer. It dried in about 30 minutes and sanded well. 3 coats, sanding in between, got rid of BT spirals. 2 coats on top of Fill 'n Finished fins and the surface is very smooth. I think it was about 5 bucks for a 12 oz can at Home Depot. I'm getting a lot of mileage out of the one can so far.

Drew

[ghrocketman]

Might have to try that Bondo primer.
Seems a little light on solids, but appears it would dry extremely fast based on the solvent package.

[o1d_dude]

Alrighty then...

I tried the Plasti-Kote Spot Filler & Primer on a balsa nosecone that had been "hardened" with CA, sanded smooth, coated with diluted FnF, and then sanded smooth. Although I thought my prep was good, the Spot Primer went on and dried quickly allowing me to sand within two hours to reveal the flaws in my prep. I've already sprayed a second coat of Spot Primer and am waiting for it dry so I can sand it again. Today. Not tomorrow, today.

Lessons learned:
1. PK Spot Filler & Primer is sand paper friendly.
2. PK Spot Filler & Primer dries quickly.
3 PK Spot Filler & Primer is expensive.

I tend to build in a mass production way...assemble a bunch of kits, fillet the bunch of them, prime them, and then wait for the primer to completely cure. Seeing as how sanding is nobody's favorite thing to do, there they would sit...primed but not sanded...until I decided I wanted to actually launch one or the other of them.

I think with the Plasti-Kote I will be able to build in a serial fashion and actually complete one bird before starting another. This will be a good thing.

[ghrocketman]

Good, fast primers can be sanded in about an HOUR, not in the same DAY !
Generally all my coats of primer and sanding are done in the same day.