Estes FIRING LINE set with Vampire!

[AcroRay]

My parents were out on one of their regular flea-market/antique-fair trips this week, so I asked them if they happened across a rocket launcher set for under $20 if they'd pick up one for me, so the ladies and I could launch our rockets ourselves.

So, this evening my dad gives me one he found for $20 - an Estes "Firing Line" set with an RTF called "Vampire". The kit seems to be in great shape. Well cared-for, missing only the blast deflector plate and some of the decals for the Vampire, and has only one rod element for the launch rod. The rocket even had a single unused engine & igniter loaded into it. It must have also had some sort of plastic overlay to hold all the pieces in the foam tray. I may just replace that, and transfer what I'll be using to a range box.

The Vampire does seem like it's been launched at least once or twice. When I pulled out the 'chute, a puff of old talcum powder fell out of it. Otherwise it's in great shape apart from the decals. The main body decal with it's cool 1970s graphic lines is missing, and the fin decals are oily from glue migration. I expect the decals were factory applied.

So,a couple of questions: Anyone know where I could get scans or repros of the Vampire's decals? Also, would this be considered a valuable set? I don't plan on selling it, but that may affect how I approach using it or restoring those portions that haven't aged well. Is it a common set? It does mention Damon on the box.

[gonzoexe]

My parents were out on one of their regular flea-market/antique-fair trips this week, so I asked them if they happened across a rocket launcher set for under $20 if they'd pick up one for me, so the ladies and I could launch our rockets ourselves.

So, this evening my dad gives me one he found for $20 - an Estes "Firing Line" set with an RTF called "Vampire". The kit seems to be in great shape. Well cared-for, missing only the blast deflector plate and some of the decals for the Vampire, and has only one rod element for the launch rod. The rocket even had a single unused engine & igniter loaded into it. It must have also had some sort of plastic overlay to hold all the pieces in the foam tray. I may just replace that, and transfer what I'll be using to a range box.

The Vampire does seem like it's been launched at least once or twice. When I pulled out the 'chute, a puff of old talcum powder fell out of it. Otherwise it's in great shape apart from the decals. The main body decal with it's cool 1970s graphic lines is missing, and the fin decals are oily from glue migration. I expect the decals were factory applied.

So,a couple of questions: Anyone know where I could get scans or repros of the Vampire's decals? Also, would this be considered a valuable set? I don't plan on selling it, but that may affect how I approach using it or restoring those portions that haven't aged well. Is it a common set? It does mention Damon on the box.


Excellent find...
Just wondering if someone out there knows which of the limited Estes series kits are more rare, the firing line or the citation series.

Dave

[cas2047]

I had never heard of the Vampire until reading your post. After a quick check of the Ninfinger site i found that it's part of the flight line kit in the 1973-1976 Estes Catalogs. I like the picture in the 1973 catalog. You can clearly see all of the parts, engines, etc..
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes73/73est4.html

1974 Estes catalog:
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes74/74est10.html
1975 Estes catalog:
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes75/75est48.html
1976 Estes catalog:
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/nostalgia/76est006.html

Not sure where you would find decals scans. I'm sure you could craft up a set yourself though, using decal printer paper, or I'm sure one of the decals vandors would be willing to print something up for you.

[gpoehlein]

Check out this page of the 73 catalog - it gives a bit better picture of the Vampire:

http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes73/73est8.html

Greg

[Scott6060842]

Ahhh the memories...

My neighbor got this set for Christmas in 1973. We didn't have the right size batteries for the controls so we duct taped some "D" batteries together to make it fire. I don't remember if the set came with the 1973 catalog or if we sent away for one using a form that came inside.

I remember mailing in cash for my first rocket (a scout) and a pack of A8-3's. I proudly painted it dark green using a gallon of old house paint I found in our basement. Flew great from what I remember. :)

[Solomoriah]

The Vampire looks a lot like the Mini Max with a shorter nosecone. Of course, the Mini Max is not plastic; but it would be easy to build a look-alike using the Mini-Max kit and Semroc BNC-50G3.

Or just build the Mini Max, paint it black and apply similar stickers/decals.

[PaulK]

You're pretty fortunate, I've been watching for a firing-line set, having lusted for them in the 70's, and they rarely show up on auction. Being open, it probably has little value to hard core collectors, but for nostalgia BARs like us, it has a lot of value. Launch it and relive your youth, but I personally would keep the set together and use it only for the occasional nostalgia trip.

[blackshire]

Luckily (from the standpoint of duplicating your Vampire's missing decals), they were ordinary, non-glossy, self-adhesive paper decals that can be reproduced using ordinary self-adhesive label stock. If you have a little drafting experience, the lengthwise body decal is fairly easy to reproduce (and even easier if you have a drawing program on your computer).

[AcroRay]

Well, I use Photoshop (CS4) on an almost daily basis, and a buddy at my studio is our professional graphic artist and animator, so developing the graphics for the decals shouldn't be a problem. I just really need a decent, sharp photo of the main body label to work with.

I'm also assuming the two fin face decals that say 'Exhaust' on the side of the main body decal are the only other decals. My Vampire only has decal residue on the main body tube on the one side. You can see the mess in the one picture. The Vampire, then, was only decorated on the surfaces exposed by the packaging - correct?

[blackshire]

Well, I use Photoshop (CS4) on an almost daily basis, and a buddy at my studio is our professional graphic artist and animator, so developing the graphics for the decals shouldn't be a problem. I just really need a decent, sharp photo of the main body label to work with.Indeed! You're well-furnished to duplicate the Vampire's body tube decal.I'm also assuming the two fin face decals that say 'Exhaust' on the side of the main body decal are the only other decals. My Vampire only has decal residue on the main body tube on the one side. You can see the mess in the one picture. The Vampire, then, was only decorated on the surfaces exposed by the packaging - correct?Yes, you're correct.

[tbzep]

The Vampire looks a lot like the Mini Max with a shorter nosecone. Of course, the Mini Max is not plastic; but it would be easy to build a look-alike using the Mini-Max kit and Semroc BNC-50G3.

Or just build the Mini Max, paint it black and apply similar stickers/decals.

The Vampire was re-released a few years ago as the Jinx, a purple RTF rocket. Unfortunately, they've never re-released the cool little launch pad.

[AcroRay]

This set still has the manual/instructions sheet, as well as instructions on the box-back. Should I see if JimZ wants scans for his website?

[blackshire]

This set still has the manual/instructions sheet, as well as instructions on the box-back. Should I see if JimZ wants scans for his website?I don't know if JimZ is updating his site anymore, *but* Scott Hansen (LTVscout on here) could host the scans on "Ye Olde Rocket Plans." Also, is the launch rod piece in the set half of a 36" rod or an 18" rod (the current Moon Mutt Starter Set uses an 18" launch rod)?

[tbzep]

Also, is the launch rod piece in the set half of a 36" rod or an 18" rod (the current Moon Mutt Starter Set uses an 18" launch rod)?
IIRC, it was supposed to be a 24" rod.

.

[blackshire]

IIRC, it was supposed to be a 24" rod.

.Interesting...judging by the quick liftoffs my Estes Firing Line Vampire and X-15 had (from my old Estes "Tilt-A-Pad"), a 24" launch rod would have been quite adequate for them. Shorter launch rods make "bus-portable" starter sets for urban kids practical (the Estes Moon Mutt Starter Set is a good current example, as was the Estes Screaming Eagle Starter Set).

[AcroRay]

I think I've collected enough images of the Vampire to reproduce the body decal. The manual has an obviously retouched but clear reproduction of the decal's text, although the graphics and layout don't quite match what I see on all the other catalog photos and box illustrations of it.

Attached is a thumbnail of the collection of the catalog images and the manual scan I'm using for reference. I haven't shot the Firing Line box images. They offer a bit of clarity for the decal's layout. Notice, though, that the decal is a wee bit different in each iteration...?

So I'll use that as a basis to reproduce the main body decal, maybe reverse it for the other side, and I'll use the degraded remaining fin decals to reproduce those as well.

Still, if anyone's got a Vampire I can check my results against, LMK. There seems to be a small red line of text under the line-work on the body decal that doesn't appear on the retouched manual image and is illegible everywhere else. I'm curious if that actually made it into the final product, given that some of these images are probably of a prototype used for marketing photography.

[tbzep]

Still, if anyone's got a Vampire I can check my results against, LMK. There seems to be a small red line of text under the line-work on the body decal that doesn't appear on the retouched manual image and is illegible everywhere else. I'm curious if that actually made it into the final product, given that some of these images are probably of a prototype used for marketing photography.

I think the red text is the same text as your manual image, "For study and research...."

On the left photo, the text is flipped over compared to the other two photos and the manual image, but the red graphic design is in the same orientation in all four images.

[blackshire]

I think I've collected enough images of the Vampire to reproduce the body decal. The manual has an obviously retouched but clear reproduction of the decal's text, although the graphics and layout don't quite match what I see on all the other catalog photos and box illustrations of it.

Attached is a thumbnail of the collection of the catalog images and the manual scan I'm using for reference. I haven't shot the Firing Line box images. They offer a bit of clarity for the decal's layout. Notice, though, that the decal is a wee bit different in each iteration...?

So I'll use that as a basis to reproduce the main body decal, maybe reverse it for the other side, and I'll use the degraded remaining fin decals to reproduce those as well.

Still, if anyone's got a Vampire I can check my results against, LMK. There seems to be a small red line of text under the line-work on the body decal that doesn't appear on the retouched manual image and is illegible everywhere else. I'm curious if that actually made it into the final product, given that some of these images are probably of a prototype used for marketing photography.That looks good. It's probably impossible to see because it's black over black, but the Vampire body tube decal had rounded corners.

[joeld1212]

I still have this rocket. I purchased it in '73 or '74. I'm looking at it right now.

The two middle pictures in the above post are correct. The small wording under "Estes Vampire" is "For study and research purposes.
Stand clear during launch phase." This lettering is in red.

In the design next to this wording, also in red is "1/2A3-2T" just above the upper line of the design that's next to the two balls.

Hope this makes sense.

[AcroRay]

Hope this makes sense.

Excellent! Thanks for the info! (You too, Blackshire!)

joeld1212 - If you have some way to shoot a photo of the decal and post it here, I'd appreciate it. Also, if you could proof what I come up with against your Vampire, I'd appreciate it.

I did up the fin decals in Photoshop earlier this evening, based on a scan of the one surviving on this rocket. I'll work on the body tube decal over the next couple of days. I measured out the size based on the glue residue on my Vampire's BT.

Over the last couple of days I took the Vampire apart, cleaned the parts, removed the old fin decals. I replaced the old, burnt, very short shock cord with a longer one of similar - but slightly more durable - cord. I also cleaned up and smoothed out the 'chute, and tied it to a black #7 fishing swivel. The Vampire's BT is also coming apart a little at one of the seams at the top, so I patched that up a bit with 2-part epoxy to shore it up and fill in the seam pressure-tight.

A lot of effort, maybe - but I enjoy restoring old toys. The black & red color scheme also reminds me a lot of a sci-fi RPG I used to play back in high school called TRAVELLER. So I've taken a liking to this older bird.

[joeld1212]

AcroRay,

I'd be glad to help in anyway I can. I don't have a digital camera but my daughter does. I'll try to get her over here and have her post a picture of the Vampire.

It's been decades since I launched this particular rocket, so it's in pretty good shape. Just one corner on the body decal is a little raised and wrinkled.

[AcroRay]

AcroRay,

I'd be glad to help in anyway I can. I don't have a digital camera but my daughter does. I'll try to get her over here and have her post a picture of the Vampire.

It's been decades since I launched this particular rocket, so it's in pretty good shape. Just one corner on the body decal is a little raised and wrinkled.


Thanks, Joe!

Here's a thumbnail of the repro fin decals. I printed a test set on plain white paper last night and fitted them against the rocket and the originals, and it looks pretty good. I just need to darken the red a bit to compensate for whatever paper stock I use. Might kern the fonts out a little. The spacing on the repros is a little tighter than the original.

[joeld1212]

Those look nice. You're right, the lettering does need to be spaced just a tiny bit more.

Even when my Vampire was brand new, the decals were never a bright, bright red. Kind of muted.

[blackshire]

Thanks, Joe!

Here's a thumbnail of the repro fin decals. I printed a test set on plain white paper last night and fitted them against the rocket and the originals, and it looks pretty good. I just need to darken the red a bit to compensate for whatever paper stock I use. Might kern the fonts out a little. The spacing on the repros is a little tighter than the original.You have to reproduce the Estes Vampire decals to a level of fidelity that satisfies you, but I must say that if you were selling them and I was looking for duplicate decals for a Vampire, I would consider your current versions of the "EXHAUST" decals good enough--the slight letter spacing difference would come under "Style May Vary Slightly" for me.

[AcroRay]

I'll probably kern out the fonts a litttle, or it'll bug me forever. :)

I'm thinking I might make a modification to the BT label, though, and replace the fonts for the word "Estes" with the unique logo font Estes was using at the time.

After I finish the set, I'll post the master file somewhere for download. Maybe mediafire or something.

[joeld1212]

AcroRay: I got ahold of my daughter today and asked about a picture. She said last week someone stole some things out of her purse at work and one of the things taken was her camera. She hasn't replaced it and doesn't know if she's going to. So, at this time, I can't post a picture. I apologize.

[AcroRay]

AcroRay: I got ahold of my daughter today and asked about a picture. She said last week someone stole some things out of her purse at work and one of the things taken was her camera. She hasn't replaced it and doesn't know if she's going to. So, at this time, I can't post a picture. I apologize.

Oh, that's terrible! I hope they can determine who stole her stuff. That's awful.

[Initiator001]

A neighbor of mine back in the mid-1970s had the Firing Line launch set. He flew several rockets off of it, including his Interceptor. :eek:

(It flew fine). :)

I had/have the Vampire and X-15 rockets.

These rockets were sold on a cardboard backing with the rocket encased under a clear plastic blister. I kept the cardboard backing for both rockets. While the front side was specific to each rocket, the backside was the same on all the models and provided the instructions for flying the rocket.

Bob

[Doug Sams]

I kept the cardboard backing for both rockets. Bob,

Have you seen this thread? http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=102516&postcount=25

Specifically, this line?:
2. continuously and ruthlessly throwing unnecessary stuff out!

Doug...ducking...:D :D :D

.

[Bill]

Specifically, this line?:


continuously and ruthlessly throwing unnecessary stuff out!





No doubt Bob thought them to be necessary.


Bill

[AcroRay]

These rockets were sold on a cardboard backing with the rocket encased under a clear plastic blister. I kept the cardboard backing for both rockets. While the front side was specific to each rocket, the backside was the same on all the models and provided the instructions for flying the rocket.

The cardback instructions are presented in a similar format in the Firing Line set's instruction manual. The backing card's cutaway art is used in the cavity the Vampire occupies, but with the illustration to the left of the rocket, rather than the right.

They're a nice, rather retro graphic design. I like the cutaway, which would have been 'educational' I expect!

Nice of you to save them! :D

[AcroRay]

Here's a test of the body decal. I'm not really satisfied with the red line work, and will probably re-do it. The red seems closer to the somewhat muted red mentioned earlier and seen in some of the artwork. If the red seems closer to the example of folks like joeld1212 here who've actually got/had a Vampire, then I'll tweak the fin decal red to match.

I took some artistic license and replaced the word Estes with the logo they were using at the time, which I think better fits the style of the time.

[blackshire]

Here's a test of the body decal. I'm not really satisfied with the red line work, and will probably re-do it. The red seems closer to the somewhat muted red mentioned earlier and seen in some of the artwork. If the red seems closer to the example of folks like joeld1212 here who've actually got/had a Vampire, then I'll tweak the fin decal red to match.I haven't had my Estes Vampire for about 13 years, but the shade of red that you used looks about right compared to what I remember. The original decal's red was eye-catching and stood out well against the black background, but it was not "luminously bright" (as a fluorescent red would be), either.I took some artistic license and replaced the word Estes with the logo they were using at the time, which I think better fits the style of the time.That "MPC-style" Estes name lettering does 'nick well' with the rest of the decal's design, and it may not be totally artistic license, as the Vampire may have been in production long enough for the decal to have been updated to have that lettering in later production runs.

[joeld1212]

AcroRay: Very nicely done! You've pretty much hit the nail on the head with the red color.
And I agree with you the Estes logo style you've chosen looks more appropriate for that time frame.

The following are the differences I note between your design and the one on my Vampire. Take them for what they're worth:

The two sentences under "Estes Vampire" are in red and are written in a straight up and down font rather than leaning slightly to the right.

1/2 A3-2T is in the same font.

The two balls have a black circle outline in their center.

The upper and lower lines of the design are closer together [there's less black between them].

The right side end of the design is completely rounded [no corners at all].

The two left side corners of the design [directly below where the design, I guess, begins and ends] are also quite a bit more rounded.

These may or may not be important details. Just a few things that I noticed.

[AcroRay]

These may or may not be important details. Just a few things that I noticed.
Excellent information! Very helpful! Thanks!

[blackshire]

-SNIP- The two balls have a black circle outline in their center.

The upper and lower lines of the design are closer together [there's less black between them] -SNIP-.This design (the balls and lines) always struck me as being a stylized depiction of the fairly common "father-and-son" launch poses in catalog photographs, with the son crouching in front while the taller father stands (perhaps leaning forward slightly) behind him.

[AcroRay]

This design (the balls and lines) always struck me as being a stylized depiction of the fairly common "father-and-son" launch poses in catalog photographs, with the son crouching in front while the taller father stands (perhaps leaning forward slightly) behind him.
Humn! Very interesting! I was rather wondering what it was supposed to signify. That makes sense!

Here's another test. Messed with the fonts, but not the lines & balls...

Presented vertical, as it would be seen on the rocket.

[blackshire]

Humn! Very interesting! I was rather wondering what it was supposed to signify. That makes sense!Thank you. Also, the image on the similar-but-not-identical decal on the Estes "Firing Line" Banshee (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes73/73est8.html ) looks like it could be a variation of the "father-and-son" depiction.Here's another test. Messed with the fonts, but not the lines & balls...

Presented vertical, as it would be seen on the rocket.I'm tempted to order Semroc www.semroc.com parts for a Vampire clone that this could go on...

[AcroRay]

Well, when I'm done they'll be available for download somehow. (I just need to find a convenient distro method.)

I guess you could also buy an Estes Jinx and paint it black!

[blackshire]

Well, when I'm done they'll be available for download somehow. (I just need to find a convenient distro method.)

I guess you could also buy an Estes Jinx and paint it black!Thank you for making them available! If I could find a Jinx (I haven't searched for one, but I imagine they're still available from some vendors or on eBay), I'd go that route.

[AcroRay]

I made some revisions to the decals for the Vampire, and printed them out on Hammermill glossy laser paper, which came out with a nice matte finish similar to what's left of the original decals. I cut them out, and touched up the paper edges with black sharpie and one of my daughters' red crayola markers, and put them on with 3M spray.

Here's a quick snapshot. Forgive the low light & poor color balance. The decal print is actually sharp, with black blacks and red tones that match what was described to me.

Vampire launches tomorrow at the Pittsburgh PA Tripoli October launch. I'll post some pics tomorrow night. Wish the Vampire luck!

[AcroRay]

Vampire flew quite nicely twice today on A10-T3 engines, making about 500 feet and the vintage 'chute survived just fine.

I flew it on the A10-T3s because EMRR had that listed as one of the engines for it and because that's the only small engines I had handy. But I think that might need some correction. The heat from the ejection charge actually dimpled one side of the rocket's body a tiny bit, even though I used the '4 sheets of recovery wadding' as specified in the original instructions. The vintage engine I pulled out of it was an "A3-4T". The decal on the side indicates a "1/2 A3-2T".

So, I'm satisfied with the repro decals at this point, and it flew rather nicely. I'll work up a file people can download & print out if they wish, along with some printing notes.

[tbzep]

But I think that might need some correction. The heat from the ejection charge actually dimpled one side of the rocket's body a tiny bit, even though I used the '4 sheets of recovery wadding' as specified in the original instructions. The vintage engine I pulled out of it was an "A3-4T". The decal on the side indicates a "1/2 A3-2T".


The ejection charge damage has become almost normal for Estes motors. Many of the charges are very strong compared to those of decades past.

[joeld1212]

AcroRay: I really like how your Vampire came out. I especially like the revised Estes logo. Seems much more appropriate. Great work!

[AcroRay]

Thanks for the feedback! I think I'll consider the label design completed, and work out a way to share it.

[PaulK]

...So, I'm satisfied with the repro decals at this point, and it flew rather nicely. I'll work up a file people can download & print out if they wish, along with some printing notes.Excellent, thanks Ray. Nice job.

[AcroRay]

Thanks to the Rocket Doc's recent sale, I have a Jinx to go with my Vampire.

While it appears to use the same tooling as the original Vampire, the production quality on the Jinx is definately a notch or two down. The Jinx plastic doesn't have that mirror-smooth surface the Vampire has. One half of the two-part, pre-assembled body is a bit smooth, but the other is largely matte. The rocket is unevenly assembled with a lot of more prominent seams and flash. And it only comes with one locking cap for the motor mount, while the Vampire had two.

On the whole, it feels much more cheap than the Vampire, and not nearly as well-made. Perhaps the tooling didn't survive the years so well, and this is the best they could get from it.

A small tab has been added to the nose-cone shoulder and a slot in the BT, apparently for the sole purpose of keeping the NC's decal side aligned. Unfortunately, the decals are thick and don't seem to stick well to the body tube.

Note that the Jinx is actually a slightly darker purple than my photo shows.

I got one for my wife as well, but she doen't like the "Jinx" name and deco, and will probably come up with something different herself.