Why Did They Do THIS??!! (Rare Centuri Kit)

[Earl]

I hope this is not a member here, but I just about choked when I read the following eBay listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Centuri-ARCON-SOUNDING-ROCKET-KB-2-1960s-Sealed-/280576729571?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4153ad21e3


This WOULD have been a very nice collectable for someone (and still would be an interesting item, as is). BUT.... if you read their item description, apparently this VERY early Centuri Arcon (early to mid-1960s) was STILL SEALED before they "opened only to take pics" !!!!!!! Ughhh!!!!

Well, quick lesson in how to slice about 50% of the value off what would have been a fairly rare collector's kit.

Jimi D. if you are reading this, care to speculate about how much money this Ebayer just tossed out the window?

Earl

[Der Red Max]

apparently this VERY early Centuri Arcon (early to mid-1960s) was STILL SEALED before they "opened only to take pics" !!!!!!! Ughhh!!!!Don't ever believe them whenever you see that or "opened to check/verify contents".
- No one is that stupid.

The truth is these kits have always been open but many people shy away from opened items because original parts may have been replaced.

By stating "opened to check contents" or "opened to take pictures" people will think "oh, they just opened it so all parts are original and complete" and then bid high for an "original".

Don't ever trust anyone that tries to sell you that line
- they are lying for a reason.

[Der Red Max]

...a fairly rare collector's kit.By the way, this kit is not all that uncommon on ebay.
I've seen quite a few of them (and all but this one SEALED) come on go over the years there.


Oh and to prove my earlier point, just check the other items she's selling - she's hasn't opened anything else including sealed model kits.
Why would you open a clear plastic bag and not a box.
The answer is you wouldn't! - It was always open!

[Earl]

By the way, this kit is not all that uncommon on ebay.
I've seen quite a few of them (and all but this one SEALED) come on go over the years there.

Oh, there have been quite a number of Arcons for sure. But....VERY FEW in that early packaging style, though (and THAT is what caught my eye). No, a 'standard', more recent Arcon (early 70s onward) I would not have been too saddened to see 'opened only to make photos'. But a kit (any kit) in the earlier Centuri packaging like this one are much rarer and come up much less often; MUCH, MUCH less.

But yeah, their 'line' is probably just that (as you suggest): a line. And that actually makes me feel a bit better to think that they DIDN'T open it 'just to take pics'; that it (probably) in fact, was already opened when they found it.

Then again, people do some pretty surprising (and studip) things sometimes....

Earl

[jamjammer53150]

Ok I finaly get to get blasted for stating a point of view I hold .

Why would anyone buy a rocket kit , and not open it?

People who scour the planet loking for things ( not just rockets) for the sole sake of possessing them , with no intent of utilizing them for there intended purpose , in most cases doing so to simply feed some desire to "Have" things need there nose cones examined.

Even worse are those who do so to later re sell them fr a profit are down right deploreable.

If some onecan get some satisfaction sitting in a circle of not opened hang bags , afraid to handel them s othey will suffer no damage i think are wierd to say he least.

Pursiing a kit , because yu want to build it , fly it and enjoy it is what should be done. I was apprached by someone looking at a kkit Ihad , and there cmment was "Yur notgonna build that are you?"
Im like No shit , what elsewould you do with it . I was told it was to valuable to be built . Hw can a rocket have anyvalue unbuilt?


Oh well

[Der Red Max]

Ok I finaly get to get blasted for stating a point of view I hold .

Why would anyone buy a rocket kit , and not open it?What are you talking about?
No one said anything about opening up a kit after you bought it.
This is about opening up a sealed kit just before you sell it.

No one's going to blast you for stating you point of view but we will for not knowing what this thread is all about.:chuckle:

It's a moot point anyway, since it's been determined that she didn't open the kit as it was opened prior to her receiving it.

[jamjammer53150]

That some how it is more valuable un opened than opened , provided all he parts were there , as a kit it has no more value un opened as opend . If your intent was to build it . So she did a builder a favor by opening it and that way you can see the cndition f all the parts

I write stuff like this when I have to wake up at 3am for a flight and im bored in a hotel

[Der Red Max]

That some how it is more valuable un opened than opened , provided all he parts were there , as a kit it has no more value un opened as opend . If your intent was to build it . So she did a builder a favor by opening it and that way you can see the cndition f all the parts

I write stuff like this when I have to wake up at 3am for a flight and im bored in a hotelFair enough.

[Jimid123]

I hope this is not a member here, but I just about choked when I read the following eBay listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Centuri-ARCON-SOUNDING-ROCKET-KB-2-1960s-Sealed-/280576729571?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4153ad21e3


This WOULD have been a very nice collectable for someone (and still would be an interesting item, as is). BUT.... if you read their item description, apparently this VERY early Centuri Arcon (early to mid-1960s) was STILL SEALED before they "opened only to take pics" !!!!!!! Ughhh!!!!

Well, quick lesson in how to slice about 50% of the value off what would have been a fairly rare collector's kit.

Jimi D. if you are reading this, care to speculate about how much money this Ebayer just tossed out the window?

Earl

Hi Earl, I would say a good 60 to 70% off the value of this very early packaging Centuri Kit.
You do not see many of these in this early style packaging.

You Take Care, Jimi D

[cas2047]

For the bagged kits there's no reason to open to inventory before selling, so if someone is saying that they did that they are probably just covering for the fact that the kit was already open when they got it, or they opened it and decided to sell instead of keep/build.

For boxed kits I think it's a good idea to buy the opened box since you can see what's really in it. I read on one of the forums sometime back that some guy bought either an Estes Sat V or an Estes Mercury Atlas sealed in shrink wrap and after more than a year had passed he opened it and found that it was missing a number of important components.

[Brain]

Why would anyone buy a rocket kit , and not open it?
Well, a thread here about workshops shows a couple of pics with what appears to be a model rocket kit display in a hobby shop hanging off their pegboards. Probably easier to store that way... after all, how many 3-or-4FNCs can one want laying around?

BTW: What does BAR mean?

[Earl]

Hi Earl, I would say a good 60 to 70% off the value of this very early packaging Centuri Kit.
You do not see many of these in this early style packaging.

You Take Care, Jimi D

Jimi, thanks for your response. Yes, this appears to be a VERY early package style, and if one looks at the kit contents, it appears to contain a very simple four sided parachute. One of the pieces of paperwork, from best I can read in the photos, seems to indicate a recent change (improvement, they call it) which states that the builder should ignore the fin 'pattern' in the instructions, since the fin designs are now already 'pre-printed' on the balsa sheet! Wow, how advanced!

So, it may not be version 1.0 for the ol' Arcon kit, but fairly close it would seem.

Earl

[jetlag]

Im like No shit , what elsewould you do with it . I was told it was to valuable to be built . Hw can a rocket have anyvalue unbuilt?


Oh well

Such language! Save that kinda talk for the 'other' forum, please.

[jeffyjeep]

Well, a thread here about workshops shows a couple of pics with what appears to be a model rocket kit display in a hobby shop hanging off their pegboards. Probably easier to store that way... after all, how many 3-or-4FNCs can one want laying around?

BTW: What does BAR mean?
Born Again Rocketeer

[wilsotr]

Actually, she did all the builders a favor by opening it and driving down the value. Now it may well be affordable. :) The best eBay values -- from a builder's perspective -- are kits that have been opened, have parts missing, or have been started. Collectors don't bid on them, making them available at low cost to builders.

[Bazookadale]

That some how it is more valuable un opened than opened , provided all he parts were there , as a kit it has no more value un opened as opend . If your intent was to build it . So she did a builder a favor by opening it and that way you can see the cndition f all the parts

I write stuff like this when I have to wake up at 3am for a flight and im bored in a hotel

It doesn't lose value as a rocket but it loses its collector value because when you open the bag the "magic dust" falls out

[Ltvscout]

Such language! Save that kinda talk for the 'other' forum, please.
Sorry, forgot to add that word to my Censor list. Fixed now. ;)

[Bill]

It doesn't lose value as a rocket but it loses its collector value because when you open the bag the "magic dust" falls out


Or that magic Penrose or Phoenix air escapes.


Bill

[Earl]

That some how it is more valuable un opened than opened , provided all he parts were there , as a kit it has no more value un opened as opend . If your intent was to build it . So she did a builder a favor by opening it and that way you can see the cndition f all the parts


I purchase kits for both building and collecting. I'm just finishing up a vintage Long Tom that was pristine in the package when I opened it, and in the near-lineup, I've got a Centuri Vector V that I just opened to build and a Centuri Taurus I just opened to build. And there sits two Centuri 1/45th Little Joe II's, one of which will be built. In the pile (when I can get to them, which will be a long time from now...) are about 25 other examples.

But, as Der Red Max pointed out (well, two items he pointed out), the primary point of my post was missed to some degree.

I really was commenting on the, shall I say 'ignorance', of the eBay lister (assuming their comments in their listing are true, which Der Red Max, probably correctly, points out should be suspect in their validity) that the kit was "only opened to make photos". My point was, "Who, as a SELLER, would be so stupid as to basically lop off over 50% of the value of the item, just to make photos of it?". As Der Red Max said, probably nobody is that stupid; the kit was, more than likely, already opened when the eBayer found it/listed it, and that is just a comment by them to make the item seem more collectible.

THAT was the major point of my post.

Now, as I stated above, I buy kits to build, either opened or sealed kits, and kits to collect. Basically, I buy one copy to build, preferably -- as several have stated -- 'opened' kits which are generally cheaper, and a sealed version (if I can find one) to keep for the future or as a replacement should I loose or crash my built version.

However, throwing 'cost' considerations to the wind for a moment (and I admit that's a big one to toss out), there are some considerations about 'collectors' in general of which you make some pretty negative assumptions, without really knowing what their true motives might be.

In many cases, I DO prefer to buy un-opened kits, even if I'm gonna build them, for several reasons: (1) There is a better assurance (though not a guarantee) that all the parts will be there for the build when it comes time to do that. With an opened kit (even ones that have been offered as "all parts there and accounted for"), you still sometimes get stuff that is not complete; (2) Sometimes I like to buy sealed vintage kits to give as gifts to friends for Christmas, birthdays, etc. As stated in (1) above, I have a better feeling about giving someone a 'new, unopened' vintage kit, as compared to one that might be opened and/or damaged (and may be missing parts).

And (3), in general, when you go to the store to buy something (anything...) and you have a choice between an 'open' package on the shelf and one that is in perfect condition and sealed, which one are you typically gonna get? Yes, I know sometimes stores have sales on 'opened' merchandise and that is fine. But in general, we 'typically' like to plunk down our cash on 'un-opened, undamaged' merchandise when we can.

Finally, the comment about 'buying then reselling for a profit'. Well, that's the entire basis of capitalism, and regardless of what the current adminstration (that's Presidental adminstration, as in Barack "I'm A Lost Little Boy" Obama) states or believes, capitalism -- NOT big government -- is what has established this nation as THE source of opportunity and freedom that it is. And that is what has offered a much better life for many, many people for over two centuries. Government NEVER has and NEVER will be the creator of wealth....only the taker thereof.

So, if you're gonna kick those who are in business to make a profit, then you have a good chance of getting a job within said Administration, but you are probably also kicking the very concept that keeps food on your table and a roof over your head (regardless of what 'they' say about 'evil' big business and their obscene profits).

Of course, you are free to believe, ridicule, hate, or support whatever you like. That's another great freedom about this country, and is one I'm glad we can exercise (for the most part) in this forum.

Earl

[tfischer]

Political ramifications aside, I, too, don't understand the enjoyment of buying a bunch of <whatever 'collectible' item>, holding on to it in hopes it will increase in value, then selling it.

There are far better ways to (generally) make a buck than speculating on the collectables market. Many collectibles actually go DOWN in value (my wife has a small Precious Moments collection, which she collects because she likes them - but lots of folks bought them because they were "rare limited editions" and would surely soar in value -- WRONG! Heck I've bought here several pieces on eBay for maybe 20% of their original price)

I personally have a small collection of John Deere Precision Classics model tractors. Everyone told me to never take them out of the box or they'd "lose value". What the heck? I bought them because I wanted to enjoy them. I wouldn't enjoy them sitting in the box, where you couldn't even see anything but a picture of the item. If I wanted a picture of the item I could print one off the internet for free... So yes, I've 'ruined' the value of my collection. But unless I find myself totally destitute someday, or totally lose interest, I'm never planning on selling it anyway. There for me to enjoy.

Now with a model kit, it totally baffles me why someone would want to collect them and not build them, but hey, everyone's different. Frankly I'd be afraid to build them because I don't think my modeling skills would do it justice, but if I had great skills, I'd build it, then display it, next to the original packaging. I do agree that flying a 50-year-old rocket, only to have it CATO or get lost in a tree, is a shame, so I don't think I'd fly a very old kit...

It's very possible that the seller assumed someone would want to build the kit, and opened it to show that everything was complete. It's also possible they're lying, but I hate to accuse people when I have no grounds to do so.

[Der Red Max]

Sometimes I like to buy sealed vintage kits to give as gifts to friends for Christmas, birthdays, etc.Where is that "add friend" button, where is that darn "add friend" button?!
Hey LTVSCOUT where did you put that "add friend" button?
Aww heck, that's on that other website...

Hope you won't hold that against me Earl at Christmas time; I did try!:D

[jetlag]

Interesting thread.
Interesting, because I purchased what I thought were unopened kits of a Magnum-D SR-71 (kit #5349) and the Space Shuttle Columbia (kit #5343). They were advertised as "new," so I assumed they were unopened.
I should have asked to be sure...
The kits were both 'buy it now's and were about $30 each. Shipping was about $10.00...EACH!
Again, I assumed that if I bought both, shipping would be discounted...wrong again!
The kits arrived in their original packages both opened. No container padding. Some pieces loose in the box.
Both kits were missing launch lugs and engine tubes (had the CR's, hooks, and engine blocks, though), and there were only 4 tape discs between them (SR-71 has 2 'chutes, Columbia has just 1), and all the main BTs were damaged (only one can't really be fixed).

Moral: Don't assume anything.

I will build these; might as well, huh?
I need to ask Gordy if he has the stickers (gasp!) that come with the Columbia converted to decals. If he doesn't, he will shortly!

Allen