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View Full Version : Open Invitation For Goony Bertha Kitbash Challenge


Chris_Timm
04-20-2006, 09:03 PM
The upcoming basketball & hockey playoffs are prime time for the wives to leave us undisturbed for a solid 2.5-3 hrs every few nites.

This is the perfect time to goony bash together something new, old, exciting, boring, or whimsically faux-scale out of a baby bertha.
Throw in a Custom Razor or Quest Totally Tubular just for extra parts if needed.
It really doesn't matter. Its GOONY!

I prefer to use pre-cut fins robbed from one or more kits for inspiration.
The rest of you can do the same, or cut your own.

The CHALLENGE is to submit ONE BUILT DESIGN for every playoff game YOUR TEAM plays.
Doesn't have to be painted, just glued on fins so you can post 3 pictures (top,side,end).
It should be easy to bash something out while watching the game.

If your team LOSES that particular game, then you're off the hook for a NEW design for that game, but you have to submit a different paint scheme for a previous design of your own, someone elses, or from a previous bertha-bash. That'll ease the pain a bit!

If they get eliminated quick, well, you don't need to come up with any more designs.
If they keep advancing thru the playoffs, well, prepare to RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!!

I'm at a disadvantage in that I'll be watching both the Red Wings and Pistons games.
I'm at an advantage in that the wife will (and wants to) watch them too.

I've got pre-cut fins for 14 designs just waiting to be glued up,
and another 14 that require custom cut-yer-own fins.
Cheating allowed with respect to additional detail parts.
Some of my upcoming designs have special cannibalized pieces that make/break the design.

Its been a long time since I've been this geeked up about building.
Maybe its my version of a midlife crisis????

How about you guys??????

A Fish Named Wallyum
04-20-2006, 09:38 PM
The upcoming basketball & hockey playoffs are prime time for the wifes to leave us undisturbed for a solid 2.5-3 hrs every few nites.



:confused: :confused: :confused:
What color is the sky in your world?

Chris_Timm
04-20-2006, 10:04 PM
:confused: :confused: :confused:
What color is the sky in your world?

FLOURESCENT

tbzep
04-21-2006, 11:48 AM
My teams' championships are in October and January (even though this year's was in Febuary).

Chris_Timm
04-23-2006, 11:26 AM
Red Wings won game 1 versus Edmonton.

Here is a gooney design.
My rocksim v7.04 is being weird about the design even though its only 4fnc.
Maybe someone can tinker with it.

ghrocketman
04-23-2006, 11:34 AM
Red Wings ROCK !

Chris_Timm
04-23-2006, 12:37 PM
Red Wings ROCK !

Are you ready to get in the game?

Lets go GOONEY!!!! Lets go GOONEY!!!!

Where are your designs???

I'll have to give you a 2-minute minor for posting without a *.rkt file. :D

Chris_Timm
04-23-2006, 12:43 PM
Just a few pics from the Excelsior website for motivational purposes.

Don't make me get out the Super Big Bertha and start poking places that are better left unpoked!!! :eek:

sandman
04-23-2006, 01:31 PM
OK, here are some of mine.

First is a pic of my Goony Little Joe II with my Ashcan Constipation and an Apogoon.

Then there is my Goony Space Plane. :D

CPMcGraw
04-23-2006, 02:01 PM
Red Wings won game 1 versus Edmonton.

Here is a gooney design.
My rocksim v7.04 is being weird about the design even though its only 4fnc.
Maybe someone can tinker with it.

Chris,

Can you describe what your RocSim is doing to the file? I'm looking at it, and I see the 0.30 static margin empty, even with the nose weight. What exactly is it not doing that it should be doing (on your computer)?

(EDITED) In the words of Rosanne Rosannadanna, "Never Mind..." :eek: :D

Chris_Timm
04-23-2006, 02:17 PM
Chris,

Can you describe what your RocSim is not doing that it should be doing (on your computer)?



When I change the clay weight mass, I should be able to immediately see the stability change in the other window, right?

Unless the design is under-finned to a point where even a POUND of weight isn't helping. :confused:

Chris_Timm
04-23-2006, 02:19 PM
Hey Gordo!!!

Do you have any pics handy that you could post of the Merc-Redstone, Gemini and Vostok Bertha bashes?

CPMcGraw
04-23-2006, 02:25 PM
When I change the clay weight mass, I should be able to immediately see the stability change in the other window, right?

Unless the design is under-finned to a point where even a POUND of weight isn't helping. :confused:

BINGO!

I actually saw the stability margin increase when I took out that weight...(EDITED: WRONG! It went completely the other side of 0.00...)

I'm going to change the fins a bit to get this thing stable. It's beginning to remind me of the Hi Flyer issue...

CPMcGraw
04-23-2006, 02:49 PM
Chris,

Here's the updated version of your design. It was under-finned, as you thought. Now, it flies with rather good performance, and only needs 0.375 oz of ballast (three 1/8th ounce fishing sinkers) at the inside-tip of the nose cone.

Chris_Timm
04-23-2006, 03:03 PM
Chris,

Here's the updated version of your design. It was under-finned, as you thought.

From a purely visual perspective, I think this particular design would be better using a normal bertha-length tube rather than a baby tube.

These bashed designs seem to fall into specific categories.
Either they are stock big bertha/baby bertha with original fins but different color/markings to LOOK like a bash (like some of Sandman's nifty creations), or they are totally revamped with the only original parts being a stock tube and cone (like some of Excelsior's ).

Oh, another Rocksim weirdity. It didn't like fins hanging off the aft end.
It defaulted to rocksim calcs as Barrowman and Cut-Out couldn't handle it.
The drawing window had resizing issues too. Everytime I came out of editing a part, the drawing would be so huge that only the cone showed onscreen!

CPMcGraw
04-23-2006, 03:11 PM
Here's a promotion for Chris Timm's Corporal Gooney...

Sergeant Gooney!

It comes in two flavors -- white, with black trim, and olive drab.

A8-3.....156'.....14 FPS.....36" rod
B4-4.....396'......3 FPS.....36" rod
B6-4.....404'......4 FPS.....36" rod
C6-5.....893'......7 FPS.....36" rod

Enjoy!

CPMcGraw
04-23-2006, 03:24 PM
From a purely visual perspective, I think this particular design would be better using a normal bertha-length tube rather than a baby tube.

These bashed designs seem to fall into specific categories.
Either they are stock big bertha/baby bertha with original fins but different color/markings to LOOK like a bash (like some of Sandman's nifty creations), or they are totally revamped with the only original parts being a stock tube and cone (like some of Excelsior's ).

Oh, another Rocksim weirdity. It didn't like fins hanging off the aft end.
It defaulted to rocksim calcs as Barrowman and Cut-Out couldn't handle it.
The drawing window had resizing issues too. Everytime I came out of editing a part, the drawing would be so huge that only the cone showed onscreen!

Have you tried the V8 demo yet? It has a lot of improvement over the V7 release.

I didn't have any trouble with the fins hanging past the tube edge. If anything, that helped the design as it moved the CP back just a bit. I think the problem was simply the fins being too small for any stabilizing effect. RocSim is a bit lax on telling you what the problem might be - it presumes you can read the numbers and figure it out yourself, but it isn't always evident what you're looking at. On this score, V8 isn't any better.

The short body designs are, by their very shortness, short-coupled, meaning that they tend to react a bit quicker and you can see the effect of that reaction more visibly. A long-body Corporal would be far more stable, but then you loose that "Gooney" feel to it. Goonies are supposed to be short, stubby, even rediculous impersonations of larger rockets. A full Bertha-sized tube would take it out of that (boot) camp...

Chris_Timm
04-23-2006, 04:00 PM
Sergeant Gooney!


I love it!

Can you wrap a roll pattern on it and do a the alternating black checkerboard pattern on the fins like the one in the pics below?

Chris_Timm
04-23-2006, 05:15 PM
v8 is on its way.
Red Wings didn't get lucky two games in a row.
Heres another gooney.
This time, the Redstone Missile!

CPMcGraw
04-23-2006, 05:32 PM
I love it!

Can you wrap a roll pattern on it and do a the alternating black checkerboard pattern on the fins like the one in the pics below?

It's possible. You'll find this out soon enough, but that feature has it's own share of frustrating bugs in V8. It doesn't always want to align correctly, no matter what you try to do...:confused:

CPMcGraw
04-23-2006, 05:33 PM
Heres another gooney.
This time, the Redstone Missile!

Ahh, the GOONSTONE Missile!!!

Chris_Timm
04-23-2006, 06:15 PM
Piston play tonite.
Heres a gooney design.
This time its a LANCE.
Thats MGM-52A for your technical types.
I colored the fins for the test round.
Just needs a roll pattern wrapped around and BAM!

CPMcGraw
04-23-2006, 06:15 PM
I love it!

Can you wrap a roll pattern on it and do a the alternating black checkerboard pattern on the fins like the one in the pics below?

Behold! The power of CHEESE!!! :D

Chris_Timm
04-23-2006, 06:22 PM
Behold! The power of CHEESE!!! :D

Yeah!
The roll patterns really set it off nicely.
Does that trick work for wrapping patterns on fins too?

CPMcGraw
04-23-2006, 06:52 PM
Piston play tonite.
Heres a gooney design.
This time its a LANCE.
Thats MGM-52A for your technical types.
I colored the fins for the test round.
Just needs a roll pattern wrapped around and BAM!

Here's another Goony Lance, drawn from the first image with straight-line fins and transition...

Goon gonna getcha!

James Pierson
04-23-2006, 07:11 PM
You guy's are my hero's. Way to go and keep them coming. ;)

James Pierson
NAR#77907

Chris_Timm
04-23-2006, 07:27 PM
Next up----the Pershing 1a

I made this one a triple 13mm cluster for kicks.
Its marginally stable, but nothing that a little more clay won't solve.
3 A10's can lift alot of clay.

Chris_Timm
04-23-2006, 07:28 PM
I'd try the Gooney-Ajax and Gooney-Hercules, but they'll need alot of extra help from the professional tweekers. :D

EchoVictor
04-23-2006, 10:08 PM
Frakkin' Edmonton! :mad:

Anyways,

here's my baby....

The A-10 GoonyHog

Later,
EV

CPMcGraw
04-23-2006, 11:54 PM
Frakkin' Edmonton! :mad:

Anyways,

here's my baby....

The A-10 GoonyHog

Later,
EV

Somewhere on this forum (probably over on Scrounged...) is a RKT file for this design. I have an earlier version with (I think) a shorter BT. This looks like the lengthened version...

CPMcGraw
04-24-2006, 03:10 PM
I'd try the Gooney-Ajax and Gooney-Hercules, but they'll need alot of extra help from the professional tweekers. :D

Zo!

You vant ze Ajax, ya?

Vell, here ist ze GOONJAX!

CPMcGraw
04-24-2006, 03:48 PM
I'd try the Gooney-Ajax and Gooney-Hercules, but they'll need alot of extra help from the professional tweekers. :D

Alzo! You vants est Goony von das Hercules, ya?

Vell, beholten das Gooncules!

Schtuudy ze planz vit care! Ist nacht vat ist appearen...

CPMcGraw
04-24-2006, 03:56 PM
Yeah!
The roll patterns really set it off nicely.
Does that trick work for wrapping patterns on fins too?

I've had more of my issues with images on the fins than with the rest of the design, but yes, the fins will accept image overlays. You apply them through the TEXTURE tab, which is the last tab on the right (after the COLOR tab). You just have to play with the image to see how it "attaches" to the surface. Note - it doesn't always attach itself the way it is supposed to, in spite of what the help files tell you...

Chris_Timm
04-24-2006, 08:06 PM
Note - it doesn't always attach itself the way it is supposed to, in spite of what the help files tell you...

I tried a roll pattern on one design.
It'd be nice if there was a template that told you how big the image files needed to be to correctly wrap around a given size tube!

I can't get it to be positioned at the nose end without the tube turning all black.

I'm thinking that I need to make my image file centered on a larger field of 'whiteness' so that when it gets textured on the model, the extra white area will still be there to wrap around the rest of the model. I tried sleeving the portion I wanted the image to cover, but it didn't work out very well.

Another rocksim quirk?

Chris_Timm
04-24-2006, 09:02 PM
My first design using the v.8 demo.

Chris_Timm
04-25-2006, 11:08 PM
Another playoff game, another gooney design.
This time its the SCUD-B!
I created a rocksim-world facsimile SCUD cone out of hollow plastic transitions pieced together with zero length shoulders.
The fins are proportioned for a gooney look, but the fin shape doesn't scream out anything in particular without adding the distinctive SCUD cone to it.

Another design method (i.e. Excelsior) would have been to use the stocl Baby Bertha fins with a SCUD cone and detail the model with panels, rivets and other stuff.

Rocksim went nuts with "calculated mass" and the thing came in at close to a POUND!
Once I turned it off and set the cone to almost zero mass, things simmed a bit better.

Quirky program. :confused:

James Pierson
04-26-2006, 11:00 PM
Nice design Chris, mass problems with SCUD are that the transitions are solid and not hollow. Rocsim 8 does alot of this automatic choosing for you, so watch every detail like a hawk. Hope this helps, JP

James Pierson
NAR#77907

CPMcGraw
04-26-2006, 11:36 PM
Another playoff game, another gooney design.
This time its the SCUD-B!...

Rocksim went nuts with "calculated mass" and the thing came in at close to a POUND!...

Quirky program. :confused:

Chris,

Take a look at my revision. I think this is more what you had in mind. Always remember, using paper transitions also requires an internal structure to hold it all together with. Keep the thickness of paper to about 0.002, and it will be close enough to compute the weight. Centering rings and a tube make for a great internal frame. Another thing to keep in mind, the database for Estes plastic nose cones is corrupt and inaccurate. It lists them as being made of "G10 Fiberglass" instead of "Polystyrene PS", and it has the thickness as 0.125". WAY TOO THICK and WAY TOO HEAVY. You have to manually make these changes to the database and save them in your copy of RocSim.

New specs:

Just under 2.75 oz with the C6-5 loaded; 1.92 oz empty...

The rocket will reach flight V in 36" for all four motors I simmed with. The A8-3 has the highest Dv at 20 FPS...

See attached files...

Chris_Timm
04-27-2006, 07:00 PM
Another thing to keep in mind, the database for Estes plastic nose cones is corrupt and inaccurate.

With each new version, I find myself thrilled at the design capability improvements.
With each new version, I find myself less than thrilled with the lack of accurate pre-installed stock parts databases.

Sure the HPR people have to take the time to individually weigh their glassed components and sim for their exotic construction techniques.

I shouldn't have to check each and every mouse-click when designing simple A thru G models.

The stock parts database for the several major manufacterers should be included as part of the installation and not an add-on after the fact that must be imported.

This version makes is the fourth upgrade for me.
The thrill is close to being gone.

Chris_Timm
04-27-2006, 07:08 PM
Estes plastic nose cones is corrupt and inaccurate.

I went back thru and made the cones transitions hollow plastic with a thickness of .05".
That really made a difference.
Way overstable as it appears.

CPMcGraw
04-27-2006, 09:43 PM
With each new version, I find myself thrilled at the design capability improvements.
With each new version, I find myself less than thrilled with the lack of accurate pre-installed stock parts databases.

I shouldn't have to check each and every mouse-click when designing simple A thru G models...

I solve that problem mostly by using balsa nose cones from BMS and SEMROC as often as possible...:D

To me, the database issue is not as important as those of rendering and placement, as I find myself entering new data for new components quite a lot. But you're right, I shouldn't have to re-enter data for parts that have been around as long as I have. Once the items have been brought up-to-date, though, it's done and I don't have to re-enter it...

Chris_Timm
05-02-2006, 06:40 PM
The Dead Wings are toast, so I'm allowed a 'different paint scheme' design.

I played around with the textures option and came up with this look for the airframe.
I may tackle the fins later on.

A Fish Named Wallyum
05-02-2006, 08:23 PM
The Dead Wings are toast.



How 'bout them Tigers! :cool: