Cosmos Mariner ?

[dlazarus6660]

Cosmos Mariner, the LHS has a few of these in stock.

1. Should I buy one?

2. Should I buy one to build?

3. Should I buy one to collect?

How well does it fly?

How is it to build?

[pantherjon]

There is a long build thread over on TRF (http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=272&highlight=cosmos+mariner) where JAL3 built one and flew it..Challenging build..Flight was pretty terrible IIRC..

[wilsotr]

You should buy one, build it to glide only, and launch it on a Shuttle-like ET/SRB stack. THAT would be a cool project ... :)

[jeffyjeep]

Cosmos Mariner, the LHS has a few of these in stock.

1. Should I buy one?

2. Should I buy one to build?

3. Should I buy one to collect?

How well does it fly?

How is it to build?
I've built two CM's--I've never had the guts to fly one because I've seen so many videos of disasterous flights of them and NO successful flights. It's difficult to build well, but it's GORGEOUS when it's finished. It seems to have a lot of mass compared to wingspan--of course, so does the Space Shuttle (the real one) and it glides to earth also (of course, it has major forward momentum at the time of landing).

The last time I was there, Red Arrow Hobbies still had some kits on the shelf.

It's a challenging build and a beautiful craft, but I'll NEVER build another one.

[jharding58]

Buy one just to say you have one. It is a cumbersome build and has the glide slope of a draggy brick. In all honesty I hated all of the X-Prize models. From the Gauchito to Thunderstar I never quite got them. Although, there was a lot of tube stock in the Rubicon and the Lucky Seven reminded me of the spacecraft from some 50's SciFi film.

Has it really been six years since Spaceship One flew?!?

[jeffyjeep]

Ditto on the entire X-prize fleet--except for the Canadian Arrow. I've built thre of them into Canadian Arrows and probably bashed 2 dozen of them into V2's.

Hence....

[motley16]

Buy it, build it, fly it. The build is fun, finish it in something other than the stock color ( bland tanish color) . I finished mine in bright red and the underside in flat black. As for flying it, well lets say this not much good happens. Build it strong cause it will land hard. But i would buy another if i had the chance. By the way fly it two or three times than retire it cause it will begin to look rough after that. :eek:

[chanstevens]

Everyone's got their own opinion and preferences, so I won't claim mine's any better/worse than anyone else's.

I'm a pretty open-minded guy when it comes to rocketry, have now built over 500 kits, mostly LPR/MPR stuff. I'm obsessive/compulsive enough that I actually have the stats, inventory listing, etc. and rate each one that I build. Out of the 500+, there are a grand total of 2 that I have rated as something I'd never do again (at least without major mods, no way building as-designed). This is one of the 2. I was so unimpressed with it after the one flight attempt (suffered significant damage but nothing beyond repair/salvage) that I mailed it back to Estes, at my own expense, with a few suggestions and comments, insisting that they NOT replace the piece of [fecal matter].

I've heard there have been some rare instances of one that go up and down without totally embarrassing the builder, but those are few and far between.

If you like the style/design for its looks, build it for its looks. If you want to fly one, you'll need to really build with care and consult some experienced flying brick flyers, as even done well this ain't exactly a graceful thermal-chasing glider, and as-designed it's just way too heavy and problematic.

I've got 498 other models I could recommend over this one (maybe even 499, as the other horrible one is probably less horrible), but if you don't expect to fly it, or are willing to put forth exceptional effort and skill for what at best would be a mediocre flight, go for it. After all, I'm sure any one of the other 498 I'd put ahead of this on a to-build list probably have at least one other person out there that would say "why in the world would anyone want to waste their time/money on THAT?"...

--Chan Stevens

[jeffyjeep]

Please tell! What's the other "1"?

[chanstevens]

Please tell! What's the other "1"?

Estes Outlander, incredibly cool but insanely overweight for 18mm, should only have come out in 24mm, though flies nicely on 18mm composites, just not something the typical novice reading the recommended motor list would figure out on their own.

[jeffyjeep]

Estes Outlander, incredibly cool but insanely overweight for 18mm, should only have come out in 24mm, though flies nicely on 18mm composites, just not something the typical novice reading the recommended motor list would figure out on their own.
Yes. Grossly underpowered! I converted one of mine to 24mm and lost it in a pond on it's cherry flight.

I have a problem with ponds.

Trees, too.

[blackshire]

Although the Cosmos Mariner is (from everything I've read and seen concerning it over the years) a lousy kit at best, it does have one feature that could be useful for other rear-motor boost-gliders, whether they eject just their motor casings or complete "power pods" that descend under streamers or parachutes:

The Cosmos Mariner has the elevon on one wing fixed in an "up-elevon" position to induce the model to spin during powered ascent, in order to "even out" mis-alignments of aerodynamic force vectors and the thrust vector to make the model fly straight (or straighter) during ascent. The other wing's elevon is held flat during ascent and is deployed to the "up-elevon" position at ejection. This feature could be useful for heavier rear-motor boost-gliders and for scale rear-motor boost-gliders (such as X-15 models) that might otherwise be marginally unstable during powered ascent.

[jeffyjeep]

Although the Cosmos Mariner is (from everything I've read and seen concerning it over the years) a lousy kit at best, it does have one feature that could be useful for other rear-motor boost-gliders, whether they eject just their motor casings or complete "power pods" that descend under streamers or parachutes:

The Cosmos Mariner has the elevon on one wing fixed in an "up-elevon" position to induce the model to spin during powered ascent, in order to "even out" mis-alignments of aerodynamic force vectors and the thrust vector to make the model fly straight (or straighter) during ascent. The other wing's elevon is held flat during ascent and is deployed to the "up-elevon" position at ejection. This feature could be useful for heavier rear-motor boost-gliders and for scale rear-motor boost-gliders (such as X-15 models) that might otherwise be marginally unstable during powered ascent.
My all-time favorite BG was the Crusader Swing-Wing. I had the pleasure of building and owning only one. It was beautifully balanced for it's glide and I probably got 20 flights out of it.

The boost unit was lost...........in a pond.

The ScissorWing transport is similar, but not quite as elegant as the Crusader was (sniff). :(

[luke strawwalker]

Ditto on the entire X-prize fleet--except for the Canadian Arrow. I've built thre of them into Canadian Arrows and probably bashed 2 dozen of them into V2's.

Hence....

Ditto on that... I didn't like the Canadian Arrow kit for it's X-prize livery; I reworked mine into a "Kriegsmarine U-Boote launched stretched V-2" like the early proposals for U-boat launched missiles the Germans were working on late in the war... launched from a "storage can" towed behind the submarine with an extra diesel tank in the base for extra sub fuel, which was pumped over by a hose, and then the empty fuel tank was flooded with seawater to make the missile can float upright to fuel and launch the V-2... A rather cumbersome plan, but the first iteration of a submarine launched "long range" (short range by today's standards) missile, and from the much smaller submarines which were available in WWII.

I used much the same paint pattern used on the Polaris missiles, extended to the back and the fins/tapered tailcone to make it look more 'authentic'. After doing some research online looking for submarine "nose art" typical to the German Navy, and finding most of it rather goofy looking and silly (a lot of pigs and elephants (for good luck?), umbrellas (joke on being underwater in a sub?) and caricatures of fish, donkeys, and Churchill, (nothing COOL looking like the stuff in the movie "U-576" I finally made my own "stylized" interpretation of missile "nose art" that would likely have been approved by the Propaganda Ministry (or navy brass in the Kriegsmarine) for such an important mission-- then hand drew my own decal design, transferred it into the computer, reworked it a bit in "Paint" and then printed it off... Thought it was kinda cool for a first try at such things... Put the Swastika at the top (where else would it be?) held aloft on the nose of two dolphins to either side (denoting the 'under the sea' aspect) with a V-2 lifting off in the center, with it's tail flames morphing into the barbed flukes of an anchor (nautical theme again) with a crossed trident and sword behind it (weapon striking for the Fatherland).

Anyway, the Canadian Arrow is a GREAT kit for such kitbashing... MUCH more fun than the "stock" CA... I picked up another one for a 'bash into a B-52 launched SRAM missile... but the Rocksim is telling me I'll need a ton of noseweight or ungainly large fins to make the three-finned version stable... sorta a 'shelved work in progress' so to speak...

LateR! OL JR :)

PS... can't find a pic of the Kriegsmarine V-2... guess I'll have to take one and upload it... :)