Ace Rocket Manufacturing

[Jerry Irvine]

Ace Rocket Manufacturing of San Fernando, CA was run by Korey Kline and was instrumental in the formation of what we now call HPR.

Here are some random artifacts of that company.

PNC-39 and modified for the Sonic Shark kit.

Ace logo:

http://v-serv.com/usr/images/acelogo.jpg

Ace Cantata rocket.

http://v-serv.com/usr/images/cantataa.jpg

Ace Cantata rocket.

http://v-serv.com/usr/images/cantatab.jpg

Ace Monocopter "rocket" motor pod.

http://v-serv.com/usr/motors/G008.monocopter.jpg

An Ace Rocket Manufacturing ad from about 1983.

http://v-serv.com/usr/images/CRm.4-83.26.w.gif

Jerry

[raohara]

Down in the lower left hand corner of the ad it says "AeroTech/ACE Division." Is this the same Aerotech that we know today?

- Rich

[Jerry Irvine]

Down in the lower left hand corner of the ad it says "AeroTech/ACE Division." Is this the same Aerotech that we know today?

- RichYes. For a while Gary was shipping the kits for Korey.

[Green Dragon]

good stuff. ( begs for more ) :)

Will be nice to see those kits return .

( working on the Fugue fin pattern, if you have anything else on the bird, let me know, I have original tubing and cone ) . ( and AIR report on the shrouds ) .

( fin pattern for the original Cantata ) ?

I'd like to see pics of the early stuff, Allegro Largo, Allegros at Lucerne ( F or G motors ). any other vintage pics you have ( has to be many ) .


Keep it coming, More Power to You !

:)

~ AL

[jeffyjeep]

Yes, definitely begs for more! Such as: what did that Monocopter look like? I'd love to see the whole thing!

[Rocketflyer]

Yes, definitely begs for more! Such as: what did that Monocopter look like? I'd love to see the whole thing!


+1! :D

[jeffyjeep]

I did some sniffing around and it appears that all most Moncopter are is a mounted rocket motor on the root end of one propeller blade, a lot of counterbalancing, and a spinning vertical takeoff.

---usually followed by laughter and bad words. :D

[Jerry Irvine]

---usually followed by laughter and bad words. :DCorrect. And beer.

good stuff. ( begs for more )Remember, hot chicks and beer. :cool:

[Jerry Irvine]

Since I cannot post on TRF, the weenie channel to say how bogus this is, here is the thread:

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=17733

The rocket plan at issue is a custom kit by HSR/Buck and NOT an Ace kit. It is not an Ace Allegro of any description.

Just historically accurate Jerry

[Green Dragon]

Since I cannot post on TRF, the weenie channel to say how bogus this is, here is the thread:

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=17733

The rocket plan at issue is a custom kit by HSR/Buck and NOT an Ace kit. It is not an Ace Allegro of any description.

Just historically accurate Jerry

Jerry,

I will post this info over there for posterity sake.

Was High Sierra liscensed to make the Ace line ? or did they sell some Ace/ clone some ? . I do recall the Ace line in thier catalogs, same with USR ( got my MOngrel from Buck, as I recall ) .
The one kit he had at LDRS 6 that I regret not bringing home was a Space Dynamics Aerobee, nice composite kit, wonder what ever hapened to that bird ( or Rick Loer ), would love to get my hands on one now .

keep em coming.

~ AL

ps: waiting for Jason to post the 4 cluster Mini allegro, so I can compare to my vintage rebuild one ( original kit, hung in tree for months, had to be rebuilt, original balsa cone lost :( )

[Jerry Irvine]

I regret not bringing home was a Space Dynamics Aerobee, nice composite kit, wonder what ever happened to that bird ( or Rick Loehr ), would love to get my hands on one now .

ps: waiting for Jason to post the 4 cluster Mini allegro, so I can compare to my vintage rebuild one ( original kit, hung in tree for months, had to be rebuilt, original balsa cone lost :( )
Rick moved to Tuscon and I saw him once at a FAR (amateur) launch testing a hybrid, possibly for Balls?

I have no idea if he still has the molds or not.

Here are links to Ace kits, by the guy who wrote the instructions and documented those things when they were fresh:

Fugue (http://v-serv.com/usr/prototype/acefugue.htm)

Allegro (http://v-serv.com/usr/prototype/aceallegro.htm)

Squid (http://v-serv.com/usr/prototype/acesquid.htm)

Mini-Allegro (http://v-serv.com/usr/prototype/aceminiallegro.htm)

Historical Jerry

[dyaugo]

I like the Ace Cantata rocket!

That's insane!

[Spaceclipper]

Their nose cones were really light , my Binder Samurai from 15 yrs ago I think has an Ace cone, would like to see those come back, are great for light weight large diameter rockets...

[jdbectec]

Their nose cones were really light , my Binder Samurai from 15 yrs ago I think has an Ace cone, would like to see those come back, are great for light weight large diameter rockets...


I believe the Ace nose cone is what aerotech uses on the G-Force and that it can be ordered from their site.

Part no. 11401

http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/customersite/resource_library/Instructions/Kit_Instructions/g-force_in_8-04.pdf

:)

[Green Dragon]

I believe the Ace nose cone is what aerotech uses on the G-Force and that it can be ordered from their site.

Part no. 11401

http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/customersite/resource_library/Instructions/Kit_Instructions/g-force_in_8-04.pdf

:)

No.

The Aerotech cone is proprietry, Aerotech owned molds - and although a semi-lightweight blow molded cone, is not the Ace molds.

Not sure where, if any, Ace cones may be purchased, will keep my eyes open .

~ AL

( working on my THOR ebuild this AM, has an old Ace cone, now foam filled. )

Nice kits.

[sandman]

No.

The Aerotech cone is proprietry, Aerotech owned molds - and although a semi-lightweight blow molded cone, is not the Ace molds.

Not sure where, if any, Ace cones may be purchased, will keep my eyes open .

~ AL

( working on my THOR ebuild this AM, has an old Ace cone, now foam filled. )

Nice kits.

A few years back when I went to a hobby shop in Portland, OR they had a large bin of Ace nose cones for $3 each! At least I think they were Ace. Did they have the bottle cap screw on thingy on the bottom?

I also should have purchased Apple stock when it was cheap too!

[Jerry Irvine]

Did they have the bottle cap screw on thingy on the bottom?Yes.

Cantata (http://v-serv.com/usr/prototype/acecantata.htm)

Maybe Sandman could make a production run of Ace Series redwood nose cones for the peculiar tube sizes at a low enough cost to put in kits. . . . .

Jerry is history!

[sandman]

Yes.

Cantata (http://v-serv.com/usr/prototype/acecantata.htm)

Maybe Sandman could make a production run of Ace Series redwood nose cones for the peculiar tube sizes at a low enough cost to put in kits. . . . .

Jerry is history!

There ain't no such thing as a low cost 4" custom nose cone! :rolleyes:

That's a big junk of wood and redwood is hard to get here in Michigan.

[5x7]

No.

The Aerotech cone is proprietry, Aerotech owned molds - and although a semi-lightweight blow molded cone, is not the Ace molds.

Not sure where, if any, Ace cones may be purchased, will keep my eyes open .

~ AL

( working on my THOR ebuild this AM, has an old Ace cone, now foam filled. )

Nice kits.

Two years ago I lost the Ace cone of my 4" Cluster R Standard Arm. I did an extensive search on-line for a replacement and came up empty. (I did get it back at the next launch when someone found it.) For what it's worth, pre-Estes NCR also used Ace 4" cones, I have one on a Quasar NG, so maybe Matt Steele knows who was making them last.

[raohara]

Does anyone have the specifications (or better yet, a drawing) of an Ace cone (or cones) that I can take to a molder and get some pricing?

- Rich

[tbzep]

I've got several Ace 4" nosecones, bottle cap bases and all. :cool: They are all on my retired HPR rockets.

[Green Dragon]

Two years ago I lost the Ace cone of my 4" Cluster R Standard Arm. I did an extensive search on-line for a replacement and came up empty. (I did get it back at the next launch when someone found it.) For what it's worth, pre-Estes NCR also used Ace 4" cones, I have one on a Quasar NG, so maybe Matt Steele knows who was making them last.

Never had any NCR with Ace cones, my original Phantom 4000 HD had a foam cone, wish I had the cone ( lost in a Zelienople tree ) .

As for the Quasar, I'd be interested in plans for that if you have them / patterns.... for my historical database.

Any other NCR plans ?

[raohara]

Why a bottle cap base? A place to store the hootch? :D

- Rich

[tbzep]

Why a bottle cap base? A place to store the hootch? :D

- Rich

It's the way the plastic was shaped before being blow molded into a nosecone. Have you ever seen a 2 liter coke bottle before it is blow molded?

http://images.suite101.com/722776_com_800pxplast.jpg

[raohara]

No, never seen the pop bottle picture before. Thanks.

- Rich

[mwtoelle]

My NCR Phantom 4000 (pre-Estes) and THOY Falcon both have Ace 4.0" inch nose cones. Nice and lightweight pieces.

[tbzep]

Here's a 4" Ace nosecone for those of you who aren't familiar. They are nice and light weight, but that also means that they will bend easily and chip paint unless filled with two part foam. (Spray can foam never completely cures and will ruin your projects.)
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/tbzep/Rockets/AceNose.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/tbzep/Rockets/CherokeeFamily.jpg

[5x7]

Never had any NCR with Ace cones, my original Phantom 4000 HD had a foam cone, wish I had the cone ( lost in a Zelienople tree ) .

As for the Quasar, I'd be interested in plans for that if you have them / patterns.... for my historical database.

Any other NCR plans ?

I was wondering if you were interested in NCR-the Quasar was produced later than the kits and companies you put in your old HPR thread. I don't have access to a scanner right now, but I can try to get to one in a few weeks to get the Quasar out there. It has nice decals that are on the built rocket so I will try to get a picture. I agree there should be an archive of older OOP HPR. I have an NCR corporal with a foam nose cone, and a Shuttle Magellan with the foam nose. Those are 1.88" diameter rockets.

Are you interested in THOY or Cluster R?

[Green Dragon]

I was wondering if you were interested in NCR-the Quasar was produced later than the kits and companies you put in your old HPR thread. I don't have access to a scanner right now, but I can try to get to one in a few weeks to get the Quasar out there. It has nice decals that are on the built rocket so I will try to get a picture. I agree there should be an archive of older OOP HPR. I have an NCR corporal with a foam nose cone, and a Shuttle Magellan with the foam nose. Those are 1.88" diameter rockets.

Are you interested in THOY or Cluster R?

Definately interested in newer items as well ( just focusing on the true 'first HPR' more so ) .

Issue with NCR is the rights and legalities of posting, as I understand - ( Owners not wanting it posted online ? ) . but definately interested in anything you can share man to man ( and would share as asked ) - the Corporal would be nice, I have one of those foam cones with no home currently, might be neat to use the lil orphan on something.

Some Thoy is posted on YORP, you'd have to check, but certainly interested in any not posted ( check EMRR, too, since some of the rocsim files are there , I believe).. what ones you have ?

Cluster R I would certainly liek to see what you have, I have a builtup Sandhawk ( 2.6" ) , and a 7" cone - would love to clone a Skyraider or Standard Arm , sure others might pick up on these, too :)

Thanks for the offers.

~ AL

[Jerry Irvine]

the Corporal would be nice, I have one of those foam cones with no home currentlyPost a friggin' picture.

Jerry

[tbzep]

NCR produced two different Corporals that I know of. I have both of them. One is approximately 2" and the other 2.6" in diameter. Both sizes of mine came with regular plastic nose cones.

[ManofSteele]

Yes, it all depenes on the time frame when you ordered the NCR kits, as to what nose cone type you got. The original cones were all Aerofoam, but the chemicals that made it up were ozone-producing and went out of production, so we switched to plastic cones. We used the Ace 4" cone for may years, and it was the first plastic cone we put in kits.

The original NCR Corporal was a 1.88" diameter; the later version was a 2.6" design.

Matt

[Earl]

Yes, it all depenes on the time frame when you ordered the NCR kits, as to what nose cone type you got. The original cones were all Aerofoam, but the chemicals that made it up were ozone-producing and went out of production, so we switched to plastic cones. We used the Ace 4" cone for may years, and it was the first plastic cone we put in kits.

The original NCR Corporal was a 1.88" diameter; the later version was a 2.6" design.

Matt

Matt--

Good to see you here again! I hope you return and visit again on a regular basis.


Earl

[Bill]

Issue with NCR is the rights and legalities of posting, as I understand - ( Owners not wanting it posted online ? ) . but definately interested in anything you can share man to man ( and would share as asked ) - the Corporal would be nice, I have one of those foam cones with no home currently, might be neat to use the lil orphan on something.



Who actually owns the NCR IP today?

Estes?

The original owners of NCR with Estes granted rights to use it?

Each party owns part of it?


Bill

[stefanj]

My AAA Magnum Penn Crude had one of those giant bottle-cones. Sadly, it got crunched during the first of the Crude's crashes. I think I replaced it with a LOC cone.

I remember those foam cones. I had a Corporal and a Quantum II. I can't says as I was a big fan of the cones, but it was an interesting technology.

[J Blatz]

Since I cannot post on TRF, the weenie channel to say how bogus this is, here is the thread:

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=17733

The rocket plan at issue is a custom kit by HSR/Buck and NOT an Ace kit. It is not an Ace Allegro of any description.

Just historically accurate Jerry

Jerry-

If it's bogus, I sure didn't know it was when I bought it. HSR ( during Gary Price's time ) had several other kits that were most definitely ACE. I bought an Allegro 2600 as well, with the balsa NC. I assume it was legit, it had an ACE header card.

Yeah, I know, a header card ain't much. I will have to see if I have the instructions in all of my junk. In any case, it is a cool rocket and I have enjoyed flying it over the years.

Did HSR/Buck issue any other kits you know of?

Jason Blatzheim
TRA 2405

[Jerry Irvine]

Jerry-

If it's bogus, I sure didn't know it was when I bought it. HSR ( during Gary Price's time ) had several other kits that were most definitely ACE. I bought an Allegro 2600 as well, with the balsa NC. I assume it was legit, it had an ACE header card.

Yeah, I know, a header card ain't much. I will have to see if I have the instructions in all of my junk. In any case, it is a cool rocket and I have enjoyed flying it over the years.

Did HSR/Buck issue any other kits you know of?

Jason Blatzheim
TRA 2405
The issue here is Korey Kline Ace kits and Steve Buck Ace kits. I presume Steve used readily available components to make previously unseen kits and called them Ace under his license agreement. I am not calling those historical. But they are certainly HSR OOP kits.

I believe HSR made other kits too. But they were parts and plan in a bag style, not full instructions and packaged for brick and mortar retail sale. He was a discount mail order distributor and launch attendee.

Jerry

[Green Dragon]

Post a friggin' picture.

Jerry

OK - here is :p

lower cone - old NCR 1.8" foam cone ... waiting for a clone project.

top cone - Jerry should recognize - ORIGINAL High Test 2650 cone ( short hand turned balsa ), got this one from Chris, and am under the impression it IS the one flown at LDRS-1.

second pic is my vintage Aero-Roc, built in the mid 80's , modified for 7 x 18mm mounts, flies nice on 7 x C6-7 :) . ( Note the original Payload section and nosecone were lost at some point, currently has AAA bulkhead and payload tube and custom BMS cone speced to match the Stargate cone ( original kit has cone shaped more like an Estes BNC-70 ) .

enjoy ,

~ AL

[Green Dragon]

The issue here is Korey Kline Ace kits and Steve Buck Ace kits. I presume Steve used readily available components to make previously unseen kits and called them Ace under his license agreement. I am not calling those historical. But they are certainly HSR OOP kits.

I believe HSR made other kits too. But they were parts and plan in a bag style, not full instructions and packaged for brick and mortar retail sale. He was a discount mail order distributor and launch attendee.

Jerry

OK, clears up a little, if they were at least liscensed legal issues, if not the original design .

Will keep track of them for posterity, OOP will someday be vintage :)


( I guess ,to me, vintage HPR is pre-Tripoli, for the most part, but 80s-90s Estes is now 'vintage' so why not hpr ? )


~ AL

[Jerry Irvine]

I believe all the original USR Hi-Test 2650 nose cones were handmade by Korey.

I guess ,to me, vintage HPR is pre-Tripoli, for the most part I fully agree.

Jerry

[ECayemberg]

The 4" Mongrel has been near the top of my "to clone" list for some time. I'd love to get a decent fin pattern if it exists somewhere.

Al: I have a 4" Skyraider; I can send dimensions if you're interested. They are the same shape as the 7.5" version, but I don't know if they are an exact downscale of the big bird. I've always liked the lines of the big bird however, and am thinking of cloning it with some 7.5" parts I have laying around. Those are some big fins....listed as 3/16" ply.

-Eric-

[jdbectec]

No.

The Aerotech cone is proprietry, Aerotech owned molds - and although a semi-lightweight blow molded cone, is not the Ace molds.

Not sure where, if any, Ace cones may be purchased, will keep my eyes open .

~ AL

( working on my THOR ebuild this AM, has an old Ace cone, now foam filled. )

Nice kits.


I am mistaken, the G-Force no longer uses the Ace nose cone, Aerotech uses their own molds now. Early versions did use the ace cone, as shown in the instructions. (My Brother has an early issue)

as mentioned here:

http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/all/aero_gforce.shtml

It appears the Ace nose cones are no longer available.

Luckily I have a few. ;)

[Green Dragon]

I am mistaken, the G-Force no longer uses the Ace nose cone, Aerotech uses their own molds now. Early versions did use the ace cone, as shown in the instructions. (My Brother has an early issue)

as mentioned here:

http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/all/aero_gforce.shtml

It appears the Ace nose cones are no longer available.

Luckily I have a few. ;)

Interesting, I never knew those shipped with Ace cones.

I have a few stashed myself, 2-3 new ones. and a couple used. so can clone a few anyways :D

~ AL

[Jerry Irvine]

The 4" Mongrel has been near the top of my [deleted] list for some time.
-Eric-Buy the real deal.

U.S. Rockets Mongrel! (http://www.v-serv.com/usr/kits/mongrel2.6.htm)

It isn't instaship, but on an order and wait basis we can make some.

Just Jerry

[jdbectec]

Interesting, I never knew those shipped with Ace cones.

I have a few stashed myself, 2-3 new ones. and a couple used. so can clone a few anyways :D

~ AL

Don't feel bad, I didn't realize they no longer did! (Hence my :confused: )

They must have switched around the time the Sumo came out. It has always had a different, heavier cone.

I've got about 8 of the Ace cones that I got from Rocket R&D, I used to kit up a 4' V-s that used 2 of them, about 1/15.5 semi scale, It was a real pain to make the tail cones. :( :eek: :mad:

[J Blatz]

Re: The AeroTech 4" cone - when I worked there in 2000, the G Force, was already using the AT cone, but I do believe that the early G Force used ACe cones and I know they were used in the roiginal development of the kit.

Back to my lil' bastard child Mini Allegro 3X18, I dug up an HSR catalog from that era and there are several ACE kits listed. The one I bought is the bottom left version with the 1.6" OD. There is also a 3" OD and 4" OD kit listed. Catalog is dated 1/93, I would say I bought the kit that year. This was post-Steve Buck, but Gary Price may have inherited that stuff from him.

Scans of the HSR catalog page listing the ACE kits attached. Full page is low res, half pages are 200dpi.

[J Blatz]

Don't feel bad, I didn't realize they no longer did! (Hence my :confused: )

They must have switched around the time the Sumo came out. It has always had a different, heavier cone.

I've got about 8 of the Ace cones that I got from Rocket R&D, I used to kit up a 4' V-s that used 2 of them, about 1/15.5 semi scale, It was a real pain to make the tail cones. :( :eek: :mad:


The Sumo is not stable with ligher cone. We messed around with several different ways of adding nose weight, but in the end decided that a heavier weight cone was the way to go. Gary was not fond of the idea of some ding-dong neglecting to put weight in the NC and then having the rocket do cartwheels. Thus the heavyweight cone, which is a nice piece for many applications.

Anyhow, after the heavy NC was selected for use we had a couple of prangs during tests, and we traced it to the heavyweight cone swelling in the heat. So the piston was added...

Hye Jerry Irvine, do you know if the original AT 1.9" kits were prototyped using the 1.9" ACE tubing? My "real-deal" Mini-Allegro (4X18) has a 1.9" BT and the AeroTech cone fits nicely.

Jason

[Jerry Irvine]

AT clearly styled their 4" kits based on the ACE cone and its "derivatives". The 1.8" is a similar story. Korey and Gary were "buds" for quite a while and thus the Mustang/Emanon was 1.8"

The AT 2.5" is an outlier and should be ignored for historical purposes.

It would be just like Gary to design a rocket to be too marginal for the motors and have to do a post-production change to resolve it. After all, Gary's most infamous saying is "Rockets are stupid". Ie. not the main point. He is not kidding when he says that.

Did anyone else notice this thread has massive views per post?

I like the threads I start.

Jerry

[Green Dragon]

1.8-1.9" is 54mm casting tube - I'd always assumed that AT/Ace ( at the time AT was shipping for Ace ) , was doing 54mm when 1.8" Ace stuff came out - no 1.8" in the original Ace days, those were later with the California and Lucerne Special, Mini Allegro, etc.

Also, iirc, Kosdon used the Ace / USR 2.25" tubing as casting tube for the 2.5" / 66 mm motors, so a lot of motor sizing plays into tube sizing, just as tube sizing plays into motor diameters ( ala 75mm )


~ always curious Al

[J Blatz]

AT clearly styled their 4" kits based on the ACE cone and its "derivatives". The 1.8" is a similar story. Korey and Gary were "buds" for quite a while and thus the Mustang/Emanon was 1.8"

The AT 2.5" is an outlier and should be ignored for historical purposes.

It would be just like Gary to design a rocket to be too marginal for the motors and have to do a post-production change to resolve it. After all, Gary's most infamous saying is "Rockets are stupid". Ie. not the main point. He is not kidding when he says that.

Did anyone else notice this thread has massive views per post?

I like the threads I start.

Jerry

I f you're going to say that AeroTech styled their 4" kits after ACE, then how about LOC, PML, Thoy, Binder, and a dozen others?

As for AeroTech producing a marginally stable rocket, that is not true as far as a production kit goes. The Sumo is stable. There was no post-production scramble, the issues I mentioned were pre-production.

"Rockets are stupid". HMMMM, model rocket design compared to the intricacies of rocket motor design.... I agree. I love rockets, and rocket motors, but have to say that rocket motor design is a much more difficult task.

Not trying to argue with you, and I do appreciate much that you have done, especially your kits. But I do think you are painting a picture of AeroTech/Gary that is over simplistic. Both are longtime forces for advancement of the hobby.

Back on topic to ACE - was there a 3" airframe Allegro as per the HSR catalog?

Jason

[snaquin]

Buy the real deal.

U.S. Rockets Mongrel! (http://www.v-serv.com/usr/kits/mongrel2.6.htm)

It isn't instaship, but on an order and wait basis we can make some.

Just Jerry

Jerry,

That black and white picture of the maiden flight of the Mongrel and the history write up you made for the Mongrel on the kit page is great! I'll bet that five motor cluster of CD and PJ G motors pushing that rocket to nearly a mile back then was "spectacular". :)

I do remember seeing the picture of Korey loading his Mongrel on the pad in CRm. I think some of Korey's ACE ads were still running in Tripolitan when I joined TRA in 1988 but I could be mistaken. I need to pull some of my old issues and reread them again soon.

Back then was thermalite and flash bulb the preferred method of igniting a cluster like the G motors you used in the Mongrel or was some other method used in that era? Did you try to delay ignition of the PJ motors in that cluster or just light them all at once?

.

[tbzep]

I think some of Korey's ACE ads were still running in Tripolitan when I joined TRA in 1988 but I could be mistaken.

The best ad was Korey sitting in front of his live motor test "camp fire" warming his hands. :p

If somebody doesn't have it handy, I'll see if I can dig out an old mag and scan it for those who've never seen it.

[Jerry Irvine]

Jerry,

That black and white picture of the maiden flight of the Mongrel and the history write up you made for the Mongrel on the kit page is great! I'll bet that five motor cluster of CD and PJ G motors pushing that rocket to nearly a mile back then was "spectacular". :)

Back then was Thermalite and flash bulb the preferred method of igniting a cluster like the G motors you used in the Mongrel Back then the very idea of clustering G's was so over the top, by the time it ignited everyone was really looking forward to it, and Korey did more cluster flights than I did and that was hard to accomplish! That photo is truly one of the most spectacular early photos taken by Tom Kolis. Slide film of course.

Usually the igniters were (shrink tube) sheathed (CXA) Thermalite with the end bent over a couple of times as a pyrogen. The motors were mostly case bonded coreburners with mandrel pull cores so had a fuel rich surface and were slow to come to pressure. Liftoffs were always "dramatic" as a result but I don't recall a single misfire or pinwheel flight.

The Ace Allegro 3000 was 7x24mm and I don't recall clearly the original 4x29mm version but there was one.

Jerry

[Green Dragon]

I f "Rockets are stupid". HMMMM, model rocket design compared to the intricacies of rocket motor design.... I agree. I love rockets, and rocket motors, but have to say that rocket motor design is a much more difficult task.



I remember that T shirt - seen in various photos worn by Gary or Melodi .

:)

[Green Dragon]

The best ad was Korey sitting in front of his live motor test "camp fire" warming his hands. :p

If somebody doesn't have it handy, I'll see if I can dig out an old mag and scan it for those who've never seen it.

Iirc, that was Tom Blazanin, not Kline in the old test-firing pic.. vulcan motor ? .

If you dig it up , scan it - I liekly have it, if I looked hard enough, lol..

~ historic AL

[J Blatz]

If anyone wants to clone a classic from ACE, I put together scans n plans for the Mini Allegro 4X18. The file size is too large to accomdate here, but if you PM with your email address, I will be happy to send them to anyone here on YORF.

Jason

[Initiator001]

1.8-1.9" is 54mm casting tube -

~ always curious Al

Correct.

When Scott Pearce was designing the AeroTech Mustang kit, he used available tubing already in-stock at the plant. A nose cone mold was made to fit the `1.8" diameter tubing.

[tbzep]

Iirc, that was Tom Blazanin, not Kline in the old test-firing pic.. vulcan motor ? .

If you dig it up , scan it - I liekly have it, if I looked hard enough, lol..

~ historic AL

I'll see if I can find it. I was thinking it was a Plasma Jet ad.

[Jerry Irvine]

Scott Dixon's Christmas card was priceless.

Jerry

[snaquin]

The best ad was Korey sitting in front of his live motor test "camp fire" warming his hands. :p

If somebody doesn't have it handy, I'll see if I can dig out an old mag and scan it for those who've never seen it.

I do remember an ad like that in the magazine! Seems the inside last page of the magazine sort of became the joke image page. I threw all my Tripolitan and HPR issues into one of those big plastic storage bins and every couple of years I drag it out and flip through all the issues. I saved all the issues from when I joined so I have Aug 88 Tripolitan until Bruce quit publishing HPR. My buddy has issues from a year or two prior since he joined and brought me into HPR.

It's too bad TRA doesn't have an archive online like Jerry did with his CRm since many of the newcomers to the hobby wouldn't have access to these articles and photos and back issues are non-existent unless you catch them at auction. There's many guys that's been in the hobby a lot longer than me and I for one am interested in the magazines prior to what my buddy and I have personally in our collections. It's a shame it's not documented somewhere online for all to enjoy.

.

[Bill]

Here are some random artifacts of that company.

PNC-39 and modified for the Sonic Shark kit.



I found a relic from the past at the HobbyTown USA store in North Dallas this afternoon. They had an Ace PNC-39 hanging from a peg. Since these are probably not currently being made, this one may be a consignment from someone's collection. It is significantly lighter than the smaller 3" LOC cone.


Bill

[Royatl]

I found a relic from the past at the HobbyTown USA store in North Dallas this afternoon. They had an Ace PNC-39 hanging from a peg. Since these are probably not currently being made, this one may be a consignment from someone's collection. It is significantly lighter than the smaller 3" LOC cone.


Bill

Yes, and that's why I prefer them. The LOC cones are 'armor piercing' (or at least roof piercing) while the Ace cones will accordion-fold themselves, taking some of the energy out of a prang.

I've got three Ace cones remaining in my inventory.


Jerry-- Any idea who has the mold (Korey?) and could make more if there were demand?

[Stargate]

Jerry,
Nice photos of the ACE Cantata.
I still have one of the first ACE Cantata kits with Korey's 4" Balsa Nose Cones before he went to the ACE PNC-39 Plastic Cones. This is unbuilt.

I still have unbuilt early ACE Rockets, Fugue 18, Fugue 23, Minuete, Vance, (2) Allegro 2420's.

I do have fin patterns for the Mongrel, that I got from you in the early 80's and from Chris Pearson.
I have fin patterns for all for the above around here.
I've got the plans somewhere here, for the ACE Allegro Largo. As well as the fin pattern.
I've got an open ACE Squid, but missing the wood dowels.

I've got a early LOC Precision Graduator 4" kit that came with a ACE PNC-39 Plastic Nose Cone.

I'll try to scan some of the photos of the Allegro Largo, I took at the early LDRS events in Ohio, and post them here, on the forum.

Larry Broadbent
SAM # 0234

[Green Dragon]

Another super old thread .

revisiting as I dig out old stuff and get back at it - have rebuild of my Cantata coming up soon.

Larry, you still around ? would love to see soem Stargate scans and info as well, I had an Aero-Ram, now lost :(
Would especially like to see plans for the early 2 x 24mm Stargate had .

And, Allegro Largo is on my wish list, so if that info exists.. one of the first ' huge' kit offerings.

~ HPR historian AL

[Jerry Irvine]

Jerry,
Nice photos of the ACE Cantata.
I still have one of the first ACE Cantata kits with Korey's 4" Balsa Nose Cones before he went to the ACE PNC-39 Plastic Cones. This is unbuilt.

I still have unbuilt early ACE Rockets, Fugue 18, Fugue 23, Minuete, Vance, (2) Allegro 2420's.

I do have fin patterns for the Mongrel, that I got from you in the early 80's and from Chris Pearson.
I have fin patterns for all for the above around here.
I've got the plans somewhere here, for the ACE Allegro Largo. As well as the fin pattern.
I've got an open ACE Squid, but missing the wood dowels.

I've got a early LOC Precision Graduator 4" kit that came with a ACE PNC-39 Plastic Nose Cone.

I'll try to scan some of the photos of the Allegro Largo, I took at the early LDRS events in Ohio, and post them here, on the forum.

Larry Broadbent
SAM # 0234I have done most of a website and many of the instructions to revive availability of Ace kits. One dealer has a standing order for bulk kits as they come on line. That helps a lot!

The current plan is to have wood nose cones made, in redwood if available, otherwise some other fairly soft wood.

I suppose if they ever make actual money I would feel compelled to give Korey a royalty of course.

Last I checked AT got the PNC-39 nose cone mold. I designed a kit around that nose cone called the Sentra SRB. It was first published in HPR Magazine. I have had difficulty finding a suitable replacement cone since. I was hoping I could buy bulk Estes Maxi Der Red Max cones, but so far negotiations have led nowhere. I suspect an AT Sumo cone might be a possibility. In the mean time I have a smaller version with nose cones I can actually get.

The thicker LOC nose cones offset their smaller fin sizes, but are not well suited to micro-mass rockets for small field use. Something U.S. Rockets excels at.

http://v-serv.com/usr/aceseries.htm

http://v-serv.com/usr/kits/sentra_srb.htm

http://v-serv.com/usr/kits/sentrasrb2.7.htm

Larry, if there is any way you can pass along things like fin shapes and tube lengths and configuration notes for those kits you have, I can double check them against what I already have and try to kill inevitable bugs.

I wouldn't mind buying the Ace nose cone mold just so it stays out there. It was a real accomplishment when it was released.

Now that 1500g rockets are FAA exempt and NAR allows 125g motors as MR motors, there has never been a better time for the Ace PNC-39. Just about 30 years (13% of the life of this country) ahead of its time!

Jerry

[SEL]

A few years back when I went to a hobby shop in Portland, OR they had a large bin of Ace nose cones for $3 each! At least I think they were Ace. Did they have the bottle cap screw on thingy on the bottom?

I also should have purchased Apple stock when it was cheap too!


Ahhh, you must have visited 'Tammie's Hobbies' in Beaverton. One of the finest shops anywhere.


S.

[snaquin]

I have done most of a website and many of the instructions to revive availability of Ace kits. One dealer has a standing order for bulk kits as they come on line. That helps a lot!

The current plan is to have wood nose cones made, in redwood if available, otherwise some other fairly soft wood.

I suppose if they ever make actual money I would feel compelled to give Korey a royalty of course.

Last I checked AT got the PNC-39 nose cone mold. I designed a kit around that nose cone called the Sentra SRB. It was first published in HPR Magazine. I have had difficulty finding a suitable replacement cone since. I was hoping I could buy bulk Estes Maxi Der Red Max cones, but so far negotiations have led nowhere. I suspect an AT Sumo cone might be a possibility. In the mean time I have a smaller version with nose cones I can actually get.

The thicker LOC nose cones offset their smaller fin sizes, but are not well suited to micro-mass rockets for small field use. Something U.S. Rockets excels at.

http://v-serv.com/usr/aceseries.htm

http://v-serv.com/usr/kits/sentra_srb.htm

http://v-serv.com/usr/kits/sentrasrb2.7.htm

Larry, if there is any way you can pass along things like fin shapes and tube lengths and configuration notes for those kits you have, I can double check them against what I already have and try to kill inevitable bugs.

I wouldn't mind buying the Ace nose cone mold just so it stays out there. It was a real accomplishment when it was released.

Now that 1500g rockets are FAA exempt and NAR allows 125g motors as MR motors, there has never been a better time for the Ace PNC-39. Just about 30 years (13% of the life of this country) ahead of its time!

Jerry

I want a MINI-CANTATA with 3 29mm to fly on a cluster of F15's

:D

.

[Jerry Irvine]

I want a MINI-CANTATA with 3 29mm to fly on a cluster of F15'sThe Mini Cantata is single 29mm. However you can leave out the motor mount and use a typical USR interchange mount to do 3x29mm.

Jerry

[Green Dragon]

I thought the Mini Cantata was 24 + 6x 18mm ? or 4 x 18mm ?

I know Warren Siscos at one of the WUBBA launches, that I have pics of, was clustered, maybe modified ?
Would have to dig out old ACE ads.

[Jerry Irvine]

I thought the Mini Cantata was 24 + 6x 18mm ? or 4 x 18mm ?

I know Warren Siscos at one of the WUBBA launches, that I have pics of, was clustered, maybe modified ?
Would have to dig out old ACE ads.Ace made a wide range of "custom kits" and those should be duplicated too as "Masters Kits", but the mass market version BT-80 was 29mm.

Let's not forget he loved Al Swackhammer, Warren Sisco and others above average.

[sandman]

Ahhh, you must have visited 'Tammie's Hobbies' in Beaverton. One of the finest shops anywhere.


S.

I posted that 3 years ago! :eek:

I took me a while to figure out what you were talking about.

I vaguely remember stopping at Tim Horton's for coffee and that was this morning,,,I think.

And, yes, it was Tammies in Beaverton.