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luke strawwalker
05-05-2011, 06:01 PM
Here's some stuff that either doesn't justify a full-blown summary of the study it was snipped from or that I've picked up along the way and don't necessarily remember where. Some of it's pretty fascinating, and some is a little off the wall, but it might be interesting to someone out there interested in Saturn/Apollo vehicle and program history and the various alternatives and proposals that were dreamed up. Some were implemented, some were modified to varying degrees and came to be as something very different, and some were just proposals that never saw the light of day...

Anyway, it'll end up here, with explanations if I have any...

Later! OL JR

luke strawwalker
05-05-2011, 06:02 PM
Pic one is the docking probe from the Apollo capsule, used to link up the CM and the LM, and also used on the CSM for docking with Skylab and the ASTP DM.


Pic two is a graphic of the LM...


Pic three is a design for a deep-space cryogenic propulsion stage based on a cluster of highly-efficient RL-10's. This was from a study entitled "Preliminary Design of a Cryogenic Planetary Propulsion Module" from Bellcomm, Inc, 10 May, 1967. It's available from http://nassp.sourceforge.net/wiki/Future_Expansion
along with some links to other interesting stuff (a lot of which will appear in this thread)


Pic four is from a study proposing using a modified version of the S-IVB stage, called the S-IVC, delivered in orbit and integrated into a deep-space vehicle. This stack of S-IVCs would propel an Apollo based vehicle to Mars. The propellant was to be densified "slush" hydrogen.


Pic five is the Mars Excursion Module, which is basically a 2X upscale of the Apollo capsule with different innards. The study it came from is listed in the links in the "Future_Expansion" document linked to above...


More later! OL JR

mkrobel
05-05-2011, 06:14 PM
If you goto this site, you will see my just completed 1/144 Mars Excursion Module made from a cut down 1/48 scale Real Space CSM, plastruct domes, and 1/144 Saturn V BPC.

http://s959.photobucket.com/home/mike_robel/index

I am now thinking about a 1/89 scale (based on a 1/32 CSM) or 1/72 (which would be scratchbuilt, with interior.

luke strawwalker
05-05-2011, 06:20 PM
Pic one is from a proposal floated for possible Apollo Applications mission-- constructing a 100 foot diameter parabolic dish in orbit, to be serviced by subsequent Apollo CSMs on future missions...


Pic two is for a nuclear powered TV satellite to be launched into orbit by Saturn V... sort of a 60's version of "DirecTV goes NUCLEAR!" LOL SNAP was a small activated-on-orbit nuclear reactor design, and there were also some designs that ended up coming into being as the RTG's (Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators) used to power experiments long-term on Apollo and in deep space probe missions.


Pic three is of a proposal for constructing all future space stations from 183 inch diameter dedicated "modules" instead of from adapted and modified stage structures as Skylab had been... This graphic from the study demonstrates the capabilities and flexibility from such an approach, as the modules could be stacked like 'tuna cans' with each one acting as a different level or floor of the space lab, outfitted on the ground and ready to go, and placed in various launch configurations depending on the launch vehicle being used to lift them to orbit. This was kinda-sorta the genesis of the ISS approach of using dedicated-design modules.


Pic four is a Boeing design alternative for Skylab...


Pic five is the "baseline OWS" (Orbital WorkShop), or so-called 'wet workshop' as designed to launch on Saturn IB. The earliest Skylab concepts called for the S-IVB stage to remain as a functional propulsion element, with certain modifications made on the ground that would enable it to be converted into a space station once it had delivered itself and the Apollo CSM into LEO. It would have had a pre-installed docking adapter under the SLA panels supporting the CSM during launch, which would have been folded back once in orbit and the CSM separated from the vehicle. The residual propellants would have been vented into space, and the stage repressurized with atmosphere, and the astronauts would then have proceeded to adapt it to use as a space station.


More later! OL JR

luke strawwalker
05-05-2011, 06:39 PM
Pic one is a diagram of the vehicle proposed for a Manned Venus Flyby mission using modified Apollo hardware...


Pic two is showing the incremental approach to converting the S-IVB/CSM stack into a Venus Flyby vehicle... it would basically start with the "wet workshop" idea and then evolve from there... note the "Block IV" Service Module on the CSM, which provided Trans-Venus propulsion for the stack once it escaped Earth's gravity...


Pic three is a diagram of a Mars mission using a Venus swingby for a propulsive slingshot... The mission would begin using multiple S-IVB's (or S-IVC's) delivered into orbit by an uprated Saturn IB INT vehicle as seen in the diagram.


Pic four is the baseline Orbital Workshop, which would have been the basic building block for the flyby missions as well...


Pic five is the final (real) Skylab as it appeared in orbit.


More later! OL JR

luke strawwalker
05-05-2011, 07:00 PM
Pic one is relating to an alternative early design for the Apollo Telescope mount. Originally, this was to be a converted LM launched into orbit by a Saturn IB, which would have rendezvoused and docked with the Skylab OWS. As can be clearly seen in this diagram, the converted LM (having had it's engines and legs removed and replaced with solar panels and instruments) would have docked to the side of the docking/airlock module installed on the front end of the OWS.


Pic two is a slightly different arrangement of the same idea...


Pic three is a design that came about as a result of the MOL work-- about the same time, a variant of MOL was being proposed to NASA as a space station alternative-- MORL. NASA asked the contractors to look at the possibility of using the MORL as an Orbital Launch Facility (OLF) for interplanetary missions and for lunar logistics supply missions for long-term lunar habitation stations (moonbase). This diagram shows some orbital launch vehicles (propulsive stages for TLI/TMI and payloads) docked to the station, as well as a stack of tankers docked end-to-end 'under' the station, where they presumably also served double-duty as storage for the propellants, receiving services from the OLF itself...


Pic four is an interesting design for a single-launch self-deploying space station design to be launched on a Saturn V along with the CSM. The station would consist of six interconnected and hinged 'modules' in the outer ring, connected by pressurized tunnels to the central "docking hub" where the CSM(s) would dock. The station was launched as a folded-up contraption much like a folding cane is-- spring-loaded interconnected and hinged tubular sections, stored under the modified SLA panels designed to house the station and protect it during boost. Once in orbit and the SLA panels were discarded when the CSM separated, the station would separate from the spent S-IVB and "unfold" itself into the hexagonal operational position seen here. The CSM could then dock to one of the hub's docking ports and the astronauts could open up the station-- and be ready to receive more crews launched by Saturn IB's or MLV's and resupply flights as needed...


Here's a pic of the space station folded up and ready for launch atop a Saturn V... it required a new SLA design since the conical SLA panels covering the LM during launch atop a Saturn V were not the right size nor shape for this application. The station would be housed in a cylindrical fairing with a conical spacecraft adapter above it to carry the CSM atop it during launch. Obviously from the diagram, this was to be a modified CSM using a new long-duration Service Module quite unlike the lunar-capable SM used with the Apollo CM during the moon missions. It appears much like the minimalist SM proposed for Orion in the present day...


The study relating to this proposal can be downloaded off the "Future_Expansion" link in the second post to this thread if one is interested...

More later! OL JR

luke strawwalker
05-05-2011, 07:20 PM
Pic one is a proposed version of the "dry workshop" as Skylab came to be known as (and was implemented as). Launched by the much more powerful Saturn V flying as a two-stage vehicle (S-IC and S-II stages, with the converted S-IVB station as payload) there was considerably more room for growth in the proposal, as this diagram shows when "taken to the max". In this version, there is considerably more space and equipment and several provisions for more docking ports for extra CSMs to fly to it and dock and the same time... Once the SLA panels were discarded upon achieving orbit, the considerably larger and more sophisticated docking module would have been exposed with four docking ports for CSMs and resupply craft, or, as seen here, externally docked experiment modules carried up on subsequent flights. The entire stage was transformed into living space, including the oxygen tank on the OWS, which in Skylab was merely used as a septic tank for waste storage through the use of the waste airlock installed at its apex. The space in the S-IVB/S-II conical adapter, wasted on Skylab as the standard S-II/S-IVB stage adapter was used basically unchanged from Apollo flights, was instead crammed full of instruments and another pressurized compartment in this version, and even had provisions for an aft lateral docking port for another CSM! It would have been chocked full of sensors and equipment and would have been permanently attached to the station. It would have required the development of a field splice separation plane between the top of the S-II stage and the interstage, which normally remained attached to the S-II stage in all the Apollo launches, since it was totally unneeded after the S-IVB separated and staged... This was sort of a "Skylab on Steroids"...


Pic two is showing the launch configuration of the ATM (Apollo Telescope Mount) as it was launched on Skylab under the fairing.


Pic three is a rendering of the Skylab OWS in orbit and docked to the LM/ATM and CSM.


Pic four is the arrangement of the Skylab solar arrays as they were intended to be. (Before one panel was totally ripped off during launch and the other jammed, until it was fixed by the Skylab I crew).


Pic five is the arrangement of solar cell panels as designed for follow-on Skylab II station(s). Note the ATM is missing, but a large extensible solar array is located in it's place utilizing the same mounting hardware, and much larger OWS flank arrays...


Later! OL JR

luke strawwalker
05-06-2011, 08:05 AM
Pic one is the crawler transporter...


Pic two is a sideview of the crawler transporter...


Pic three is an end view of the crawler transporter...


Pic four is the Mobile Launcher and Launch Umbilical Tower (ML/LUT)...


Pic five is another view of the LUT with the Saturn V aboard...


More later! OL JR

luke strawwalker
05-06-2011, 08:17 AM
Pic one is the flyback S-IC stage... this was proposed as an early shuttle booster design...


Pic two is some details of the nose fairing area of the flyback S-IC shuttle booster...


Pic three is a three-view diagram of the flyback S-IC booster...


Pic four is a view of the shuttle/ET/flyback S-IC booster stack...


Pic five is from the plume impingement flow study wind tunnel model of the Saturn V...


More later! OL JR

luke strawwalker
05-06-2011, 08:36 AM
The first pic is of Mike Robel's excellent static models of the Jarvis launcher and the Saturn IB. The Jarvis launcher was a proposal by Hughes Aerospace after the Challenger disaster (named for Greg Jarvis, a Hughes employee who died on Challenger) which would have consisted of shuttle ET tankage modified to handle kerosene/LOX and fitted with a thrust structure containing a pair of F-1 engines, topped by a new second stage made the same size on the same tooling and powered by a single J-2(S) engine. This would have been the 'modern day' equivalent of a Saturn IB and could have been designed for cheap production for an expendable booster. Had shuttle been retired after Challenger, Jarvis would have made an excellent crew launch vehicle for whatever follow-on spacecraft (Apollo-like) would have replaced shuttle. It's still a worthy design to consider today for a basic crew launcher, but the F-1's are rather antiquated-- we have more efficient kerosene engines available for import today that would make more sense...


Pic two is the Apollo 7 Saturn IB...


Pic three is a graphic of a Saturn V with a notional Saturn II... Saturn II would have been a replacement for Saturn IB, using a pair of F-1 engines in the first stage instead of the cluster of eight H-1 engines in Saturn IB, and using monolithic fuel/oxidizer tanks instead of the cluster of 105/70 inch tanks like Saturn IB, which would have been cheaper to manufacture and had some mass fraction benefits (which increases performance somewhat) for the first stage. Saturn II would have used the S-IVB from Saturn IB for the upper stage essentially unchanged. Saturn II could also be used as a LRB "booster pod" strapped on to the sides of the Saturn V first stage in the Sat-V-INT-24(L) proposal from another study, giving it a great deal of commonality. Basically this vehicle was a 60's version of the Jarvis launcher, but based on 260 inch S-IVB tooling instead of the 8.4 meter shuttle ET tooling...


Pic four is a detail view of the Apollo LES tower/BPC...


Pic five is Apollo's probe and drogue docking system...


More later! OL JR

luke strawwalker
05-06-2011, 08:45 AM
Pic one is of the early Saturn B concept...


Pic two is the Saturn C-1 comparison chart with the C-2 beside it...


Pic three is Saturn C early concepts...


Pic four has some interesting early Saturn concepts-- using a Saturn I first stage to loft either a Titan I or Atlas which would be airlit and act as a second and third stage for the Saturn I...


Pic five is the Saturn I first stage...


More later! OL JR

luke strawwalker
05-06-2011, 08:52 AM
Pic one is the Saturn V with a Centaur fourth stage... this proposal was made for using Centaur with a Saturn V to launch VERY large deep-space planetary probes, using the Centaur for a highly efficient planetary injection stage. Centaur was also proposed for a third stage for Saturn IB for exactly the same mission, but of course Saturn IB could only launch a smaller probe...


Pic two is a graphic of the LUT and MSS (Mobile Service Structure) used in Apollo...


Pic three is the S-IV and S-IVB stages developed for the Saturn I and Apollo programs...


That's all for now! OL JR

Bill
05-06-2011, 11:46 AM
Pic four has some interesting early Saturn concepts-- using a Saturn I first stage to loft either a Titan I or Atlas which would be airlit and act as a second and third stage for the Saturn I...



That Atlas looks really funky sitting on top of the Saturn booster...as if a kid stacked up random prices of different model kits.


Bill

luke strawwalker
05-07-2011, 11:44 AM
That Atlas looks really funky sitting on top of the Saturn booster...as if a kid stacked up random prices of different model kits.


Bill

Yep... about like popping an Ariane V core on top of an SRB and calling it "Liberty" LOL:)

Some of these "proposals" were little more than "lego-rockets" because they ignored a lot of practical problems, like airlighting of groundlit rockets when used as an upperstage, sorta like the problems Ares I and Ares V had with airlit SSME's for their upperstages (well, airlit SSME COULD be done with some development work, in all fairness, but a MULTI-START SSME would basically be a whole new engine-- hence SSME would work for a second stage for Ares I requiring only a single airlight until staging, but for the Ares V EDS requiring a staging airlight and then a TLI re-light, it's a non-starter... )

There are two things that I see as a true WASTE in the space program-- not making the best fullest possible use of both the Titan I and S-IV stage... in whatever form or fashion...

Later! OL JR :)

luke strawwalker
06-16-2011, 10:54 AM
Pic one is relating to an alternative early design for the Apollo Telescope mount. Originally, this was to be a converted LM launched into orbit by a Saturn IB, which would have rendezvoused and docked with the Skylab OWS. As can be clearly seen in this diagram, the converted LM (having had it's engines and legs removed and replaced with solar panels and instruments) would have docked to the side of the docking/airlock module installed on the front end of the OWS.


Pic two is a slightly different arrangement of the same idea...


Pic three is a design that came about as a result of the MOL work-- about the same time, a variant of MOL was being proposed to NASA as a space station alternative-- MORL. NASA asked the contractors to look at the possibility of using the MORL as an Orbital Launch Facility (OLF) for interplanetary missions and for lunar logistics supply missions for long-term lunar habitation stations (moonbase). This diagram shows some orbital launch vehicles (propulsive stages for TLI/TMI and payloads) docked to the station, as well as a stack of tankers docked end-to-end 'under' the station, where they presumably also served double-duty as storage for the propellants, receiving services from the OLF itself...


Pic four is an interesting design for a single-launch self-deploying space station design to be launched on a Saturn V along with the CSM. The station would consist of six interconnected and hinged 'modules' in the outer ring, connected by pressurized tunnels to the central "docking hub" where the CSM(s) would dock. The station was launched as a folded-up contraption much like a folding cane is-- spring-loaded interconnected and hinged tubular sections, stored under the modified SLA panels designed to house the station and protect it during boost. Once in orbit and the SLA panels were discarded when the CSM separated, the station would separate from the spent S-IVB and "unfold" itself into the hexagonal operational position seen here. The CSM could then dock to one of the hub's docking ports and the astronauts could open up the station-- and be ready to receive more crews launched by Saturn IB's or MLV's and resupply flights as needed...


Here's a pic of the space station folded up and ready for launch atop a Saturn V... it required a new SLA design since the conical SLA panels covering the LM during launch atop a Saturn V were not the right size nor shape for this application. The station would be housed in a cylindrical fairing with a conical spacecraft adapter above it to carry the CSM atop it during launch. Obviously from the diagram, this was to be a modified CSM using a new long-duration Service Module quite unlike the lunar-capable SM used with the Apollo CM during the moon missions. It appears much like the minimalist SM proposed for Orion in the present day...


The study relating to this proposal can be downloaded off the "Future_Expansion" link in the second post to this thread if one is interested...

More later! OL JR

Here's a dimensioned drawing of the SELF-DEPLOYING SPACE STATION (hexagonal ring station) packaged up for launch on a Saturn V. It would have been a cluster of six module 'outer ring' tubes with the 'spokes' and center 'hub' module packaged up in the center-- sorta like a Saturn IB first stage tank cluster... this pic shows that it could have been launched either with an manned Apollo CSM atop the stack, or with a simple nosecone topping off the stack for unmanned launch.

This would make a neat F/F scale Saturn V variant...
Later! OL JR

luke strawwalker
06-16-2011, 10:57 AM
Here are some of Mike Robel's excellent static models... various types of Mars stacks using chemical or nuclear propulsion, the 260 inch LRB rocket "pod" for a Saturn V booster/Saturn IB replacement, etc...

Enjoy! OL JR

luke strawwalker
06-16-2011, 11:00 AM
A few more... Later! OL JR